Guest

I agree with you. However if you're going to discuss the subject or argue about it, at least get your facts straight or leave them out.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

This directed towards me?

Guest

No, people who want to argue round is better period because its round. Thats so far from the truth its not even funny. Next thing you know we'll get someone in here arguing about torsion, as if the body is only or mostly in torsion at 3 feet from its centerline.

The best SFC, weight aside if thats a concern... and it shouldnt be, is the one that can be attached at multiple locations and has as much useful area of steel as possible to fit in the given area. I think both the UMI and Spohn and likely the BMR fit that to a reasonable extent. The only way to determine the "best" is to install each one on the same car, separately, and measure the bending and torsional resistance of the body with each. Hah. Yea, not happening. So pick one.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I am removing this post because it was written by someone who was on my work computer after I forgot to log off. sorry

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

I think someone got into the AutoCAD box this morning

Now I know something I didn't before

MIKEY'S 2002 TA

HI, DOES ANYONE HAVE A SET OF SUB FRAME CONNECTORS FOR SALE??????

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

there is a good article on how to install Subframe connectors in 3rd gens in this months edition of STREET THUNDER MAGAZINE (u have to subscribe to it through National Street Machine CLub i think )

they install a set of Global West SFC's and whatnot; check it out

QuickStyle

FOR SALE: Hotchkis Sub Frame Connectors

zracTA

I'm with him, plus it's a safety factor if a weld ever goes, most of us can't weld on our own and often resolve to some cheap welding done in someones back yard never know...

Jaseman32

Where can I buy Kenny Brown SFCs?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

The only way you can get KBDD SFCs, are used ones, or ones that were never put on, but you can't buy them new at a store of web store anymore. Only from individuals. I suppose SOMEWHERE a store might still have some new, but I doubt it, and I don't think they were ever available anywhere but direct anyways.

chevyracingrox

ok, I think I'm going to get sphon sub frame connectors after looking at some of the others. I've seen a lot of positive feedback about them. what kind of welder would you use?

1987ZTPI

Spohn connectors are nice and they are easy to install after you remove most of the interior, they weld along the entire length of the car, but they are round and small diameter, they are not as strong as a square tube connector, but kno one makes a square tube connector that welds the length of the car just along the sub frame, BMR,UMI, are really nice they are good for when you wanna jack up a car, but Spohn is stronger than either of those 2 because they only weld to a small amount of the chassis idealy you want to connect the front-rear sub frame to the pinch weld and the reast of the chassis. So if you are a person who enjoys welding and has access to a good welder i wouldn't recommend any of the aftermarket connects for the price they are charging, 200$ + is rediculous for 15$ of metal, I built my own after finding out that it would cost over 80$ to ship them to me and over $400 for install shipping and purchasing them. So i did what every other person should do, build your own. All you need 1 1/2" x2" square tubing .135" or .125" wall doesn;t matter 15-20 ft is good but 1 is stroner but alot heavier. a few 3" long pieces of .125" angle iron Then get a decent welder i borrowed mine for the huge sum of 24 carling 28$ and get under the car and start fabricating if you want to add crossbracing great, it helps but not much, i did and i used 1"x1" square tube, all materials will cost you no more than 100$ if you kno where to get them it will be even cheaper. I paid absolutly nothing for any of the materials for my connectors. only $28 to borrow the welder, took me 5-6hrs to weld and fabricate the connectors and another 5-6hrs to remove and install the interior. OHHHH I forgot to mention i stitch welded my connector the entire lenght of the pintch weld then welded them to my front and rear sub frame, the passanger side is always gonna be the worst for welding to, especially if you have some rust issuse. After look is neither of the aftermarket connectors are as strong or as nice fitting as custom my custom made connectors, my welds aren't the nicest but that means nothing. Every time i entered a drive way or even went over an uneven road i could hear massive amounts of movement, and my car is a coupe no t-tops. Now i can't hear anything when i go over speed bumps or into a driveway with a steep entrance. I doo hear a bit of movement when i drive the **** out of the car though.

1987ZTPI

OH i forgot to mention that i am really cheap and it's always a matter of want or need, if i need it i will still be cheap if i just want it i will do whatever it takes to do it for as little cost as possible. But you will feel great knowing that you built and installed them your self, so you can tell everyone they are custom made for me. Either way, if you wanna spend the money the spohn are probably your best bet for strenght, but the UMI are nice for when you wanna jack the car up.

Dave88z

Pics or ban!

chevyracingrox

you have a better idea. i want to see some pics, definitely... you think I could use the same or similar locations as sphon connectors? the best thing about your idea is that you reminded me my dad has some square tubing laying around I think its 1X1, but I'm not sure about the wall thickness. I'll take some measurements and try to find my camera to post some pictures of what I'm talking about. we should definitely have enough to make subframe connectors though. we have quite a bit of it, along with quite a few fabricating tools to work the tubing with. we have an ark, but I can borrow a mig. I took 2 semesters of welding last year in school. I did pretty well in that class.
GET SOME PICS OF YOUR SET-UP!!!

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

also you need to think. the square may be A LITTLE stronger or look stronger but that just takes out that much more clearance. exp if you have your car lowered. by design i think that a tube is always stronger than a square. less likely to collapse on itself but a significantly bigger square tube will prob be stronger than a tube

BlueIroc-Z

iTrader: (6)

Me not knowing much, if anything about welding, I would assume that MIG would be better. Now, I dont have access to MIG, but I can borrow an ARC. Is MIG welding of SFC's the only way to go? Is it significantly better than ARC for this purpose?

I wanted to avoid having to pay a reputable shop $150 for the install (don't want to mess around with shops that might suck @ welding, only have one chance to get it right). However, a good MIG is like 200+ used (although, I'm sure I would find other uses for it...), and then I have to teach my self how to weld...

... Anyway, I was just wondering, I guess, if this shop is wanting $150+ for the install, they better be MIG welding it, not ARC, right?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Arc welding on a cars sheet metal would be impossible. By the time you turn the ARC up high enough to penetrate the SFC steel, it'll burn straight threw the sheet metal.

Even with MIG it isn't something you wanna start learning to weld with.

janson327

I have Hotchkis bolt/spot weld square tube connectors on both my 82 and 83 Z28s. They have definatly reduce rattle in both vehicles and also managed to stop my T-tops from sounding like they were gonna fall off every 2 minutes in my 83. Another item of note is both these vehicles are daily drivers, so I recommend them for all F-bodys, race or street. They have also made turning corners far easier at higher speeds

jimmy_pop15

iTrader: (1)

oh gosh if only I was on here 4 years ago I'd jump in and say "hey, why not just slide a round tube into a square one and call it a day?"

kraftopia02

Thanks for all the great info. I need SFCs for my '88 Firebird. It's been sitting in a garage for 6 years. I can see some sag now, and the doors do not line up nicely like they did. I'm considering three brands after reading this long, long thread and doing some other research online:

Hotchkis
SPOHN
Comp Engineering

With regard to the round/square debate which permeated this thread: With all the various SFC brands, designs, and home creations, there are far too many variables to consider to make a definite generalization whether "round" or "square" is better. Wall thickness, mounting points, weld points, the type and grade of steel used, the size/diameter of the tubing, and the type of installation on the car would all be more significant in the overall drivability, strength, and rigidity of the vehicle.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I'd go with Spohn if you'd like to eventually have their inner SFC's as well. As far as I know they're still in R&D, but they do intend to come out with an inner rail SFC set, to compliment their already great outer rail SFC's.

DJP87Z28

Installed the tube type when Spohn first came out with them. It is now 10 years later and the car still feels solid. They tuck up real tight and you can NOT see them at street level.

Biggd4355

I was passing a kid operating a tractor the other day. When I got beside him he turned into me, ruined my passenger fender and pushing my right wheel back several inches and breaking part of my spindle assembly. I have ordered a used spindle assembly. But where the lower control arm bolts to the frame does not look the same. How hard is it to get the tabs repaired so the control arm is in the same location as the drivers side?

ownor

iTrader: (5)

Sorry to hear what happened to you man! But excuse me, why would you post this into a remotely related Thread on SFCs instead of creating a new thread that is focused on your question? Just a heads-up.. Good luck on getting it back on the road, hope you can work it out

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

sorry to hear all that dude, but that's a different area than this.

But, since I got the email reminder that a new post was on this thread and I then went and checked what I had posted years ago.. only to realize that I must have left myself logged in at work and someone messed with what I had wrote.

I know I had wrote a post about my setup somewhere.. and it was most likely on this thread.

anyways. for anyone interested in the S&W Racecars subframe/torque arm kit.. here is a link with details and photos of the setup. from 2009

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rame-into.html

I am a big fan of the kit. the chassis is STILL very stiff (5 years later). it not only includes front to back connectors, but an adjustable torque arm, several sandwich plates (to tie in the unibody), two outer bars which bolt/weld to the rockers, a cross-brace, which connects to a driveshaft safety loop, and comes powdercoated , and stays out of the way of most common 3rd gen exhaust setups too.


I know the underside of my car looked real nasty back then, but I also hit it (but not the powdercoated SFC's) with POR-15 undercoating after grinding it all down to bare metal and treating any and all rust. that thread is here (from march 2010):

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ame-floor.html

rocn7roc

They look strong ,being a fab guy would like to make my own.Nice job