anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I also don't know Don or his Dyno.

I don't think anyone is saying all of Don's headers are junk, or any of them for that matter. And obviously the majority of people that buy them have no problems.

However, they do have problems on some cars. And in some situations, maybe motor mounts fix it, or maybe a BFH. The fact is, these cars do have some pretty wide tolerances. I think Don could alter the design a bit (as pointed out in a previous post) and have a 100% success rate.

To answer the second part of your post, frankly I think the Chinese are gonna dominate the market soon anyway. I have a chinese shorty on my driver side and it's the best welds I've ever seen in my life, thick gauge 304 stainless, polished to a mirror shine. It's part of a set commonly sold for like $150 or something like that. The 1 3/4" long tube stainless Chinese headers, equal quality, are like what $350 ?

I figure another 6 to 8 months and we'll see 1 3/4" stainless shorty headers for under $200.

-- Joe

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I bought my headers at the end of May,..... By the beginning of August I had finally 'had enough' and worked thru the fitment problems.

Through all this time I was never directly addressed by Don thru PM's or in the threads that I posted to describing my problems. ( go ahead - look back in this thread ) About the closest Don ever came to commenting DIRECTLY to me or about my problems was early in August when he made the general said,.....

That was the FIRST TIME sending these headers back was ever brought up and the closest Don ever came to directly addressing me. BEFORE I paid for my set I fully described the fitment issues on the drivers side ( during the first set I had installed ) and was assured that the set being shipped to me would fit fine. (Might I add that I was getting - not so prompt - PM communication before paying, ZERO after my bad fitting headers were pictured here. )

To claim that I was offered several sets and declined makes it appear that there was some type of attempt to assist me with the problems found when installing these headers. That is simply NOT the case, the problem was always my car, my motor mounts, or my skills. Rather than acknowledging there was a problem,...... the tubes were re-configured, and it was back to business as usual.

The reason my headers were not send back was because after working thru all the possible reasons as to why they might not fit properly I had already spent hundreds of extra dollars and would have incurred another couple hundered in expenses and at least another month or 2 downtime and I had already managed to 'work around' the bad fit. The driving season is really short here in the north east and losing a WHOLE season due to headers fitment problems would have been - stupid.

Because of the fitment issues ( That were COMPLETELY described BEFORE BUYING my set of headers ) the quality of the headers was far less than satisfactory.

Because of the complete lack of support after the problems were completely described ( even in advance of my purchase ) the 'customer service' side of my deal was poor - at best.

I know the headers being made now are made in a jig that was changed due to the problems that I brought to light. ( to all that have bought them since ) I'm glad for that,... but that still doesn't do anything to change my experience.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Everyone should look at the pictures posted here & decide for for themself....


Everyone should read thru this thread and decide for themself......

1gary

Performance and shortie headers in the same sentence is a joke.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

I've been following this thread (and the related threads) for some time. I have SLP 1 3/4s on my car, but they have AIR tubes, and I've been thinking of making a change to non-air, so I'm quite interested in these headers.

Here is my opinion, from a guy who doesn't have a dog in the hunt.

First, and foremost, a 600.00 set of headers isn't cheap. If I bought a 600.00 set of headers from someone, and had fitment issues, I'd expect a response when I reached out to the vendor, and I'd expect it quick.

Forget what that response might be, for the moment. If I was having a problem with my 600.00 headers, and I called, emailed, PM'd and posted threads about it, and the vendor was responding to other people on the forum, but not me, I'd be (rightfully) furious. You can look back in the various threads about these headers, and the problems the guys were having, and you can see that is the case. There is no question. Don, you've never addressed that specific issue. What do you have to say about that?

Second, it is clear the specific problem these guys were having is not unique. Every person I've seen describing fitment problems describes the same one. Don, you mentioned several times that others have seen this problem, as well. You've mentioned wrong/reversed motor mounts as being causal in some situations, and that is entirely possible, but since the problem has occurred before, why wouldn't you have some specific testing a customer could do to confirm/eliminate that as a cause? If the mounts are wrong, or worn out, then the engine is going to be sitting lower in the cradle. Since this has occurred before, you had to know it would be likely to occur again, so why wouldn't you put your mule on a lift, establish a few points of measure, take pictures, and send that to people having problems? Here's an example. "If your oil pan is less than XX" above the crossmember (see pic) you may have the motor mounts reversed, or they may need to be replaced. Loosen the motor mount, place a jack (and a block of wood) under the oil pan, and jack the motor up until you have the XX" clearance described above. If that resolves the header clearance problem, motor mounts are the likely culprit."

I'm not saying that is the answer, I'm simply offering it as an example of how you might help someone find out what the problem might be, instead of just lobbing the ball back into their court after they've spent 600 bucks with you. When a customer spends 600.00 on a set of headers, and they don't fit, no matter how politely it's put, telling them the problem may be the motor mounts, with no specific testing procedures to find out if that is the problem, definitely sounds like passing the buck, especially when you're having to wait days for a response to your communications.

Better yet, why not head problems off at the pass and post a detailed measuring guide with pics on your site, and direct potential customers to it so they can take measurements before they buy? You knew this problem popped up from time-to-time before these guys bought their headers, and again, this isn't a cheap part. People paying this kind of money for a part for their car are well within reason to expect a high-level of customer service. You should provide it.

Everyone understands when it comes to aftermarket parts for cars with a wide range of tolerances that there will sometimes be problems. From what I've seen from these guys in all the time I've been following these threads, they are more angry over the service they received (or didn't) after the sale than they are with the problem(s) they had with the parts.

Third, I have to tell you, Don, it really bothered me to hear you claim you are not a business, and are doing this as some kind of "favor" to the TGO community. The bottom line is, you sold these boys some high dollar parts. They have a right to expect the quality of those parts to be as claimed, and everything else is just bullshit. If you stopped making these headers tomorrow, and I PLEADED with you to make just one more set for me, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on, but otherwise, not.

Finally, all the name calling and accusations coming in from people who aren't even involved are not only unfair, they're counter-productive, as it makes the vendor feel ganged up on. I guarantee you there are tons of guys with the nickname "Dyno-Don". Not as many as have the nickname "***-Face", but still more than a few. I never thought the "dyno" in Dyno Don meant these headers were dyno-tested, or something, and have never seen any claims as such. It's one thing to express disappointment in the way a vendor handles his business, and to let him know that behavior influences your buying decisions; it's another to engage in personal attacks against someone. Stop it.

Don, for what it's worth, what I've seen in this thread has negatively affected my opinion of your product. Do with that information what you will.

1gary

We see more and more of these kind of misleading tactics in the sale of aftermarket parts from vendors.I may have not posted on everyone's threads on here,but rest assure many I have read.I have spent my whole life in drag racing and when I see someone trying to take advantage of a person's nationally known rep saying he raced with him,I think it is a trend of how he conducts his business as a whole.Customer follow-up and resolution.Frankly no one forced him to use the user name he chose.The trend of how he conducts his business continues pocketing the income of let's say $60,000 never paying dime one for ad space.His abuse continues trying to talk down to members of this site based on his age.If he is being honest about his age,he now found me with the same experience and background that cares a ton about how members on here I think I know gets treated.Along with that,I recently sold my interest into a retirement of a small business that sells SBC drag race parts.I have been out front about that from day one on this site.And no I have not sold anything from being a member here.We haven't taken on any new customers in yrs.

So to conclude this,the trends of a user name,to poor customer service,to not supporting the web site I have spend a fair amount of time with paid ads makes this dog well into the hunt.

BTW-full retirement age does not mean you don't still have to report any income.That retirement is no free ride.If he is talking about before full retirement age,for many the amount you can earn is $14,150.To exceed that amount and hide it would mean you could loose your social security benefits for life.This is a FYI for guys that still haven't had their issues resolved in the purchase of the headers.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

OK, Lemme get this straight. If I were to change my screenname to "Smoke", you'd actually believe I was Tony Stewart? If I were to change my screenname to "Danica", you'd accuse me of fraud if I didn't insist I wanted to be respected as a driver, then do bikini photo shoots, then bang one of my competitors? That is ludicrous.

I never, not once, not even for a second believed Dyno Don Nicholson was out in his garage welding up headers for K.I.T.T., or that this Dyno Don was trying to fool anyone into thinking he was, and I seriously doubt anyone else on here (besides you) did. Your argument makes no sense, and distracts from the real issues being discussed here.

As far as his tax situation, what does that have to do with this discussion, and more importantly, what business is that of yours? Rat him out to the IRS if you like (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf), but please stop ranting about it here. If you want to rat me out, too, go right ahead. I've filed some pretty creative tax returns over the years.

"Lyin' and stealin? You go to hell. Cheatin? You just win" - Dale Earnheart Sr.

EDIT: As for his "not paying for his ad space", that should be between him and the mods/owners of this site, shouldn't it? I'd bet they're aware of his activities, and if they'd had a problem with it, they surely would have done something by now. Again, if you think what he is doing is wrong, then report him, but don't hijack the conversation from the guys who have had problems with their purchases by changing the subject. Actually, maybe a mod con weigh in here, but I'm pretty sure that is against TOS.

1gary

It's a suggestion for leverage for these guys to use if they choose to and it is bringing to light a spam user where any good member of this site would report.

And yes a PM has been send to a mod for discussion.

Side note.You do pay alot more for Lemon headers,that's true.Most of which are all custom built.Jig welded and all.The one thing you don't hear about from them is complaints of fit or quality.

Again-he choose this user name all on his own and even admitted he knew Dyno Don knowing full well the implications trying to ride on the shirt tails of a rep he doesn't deserve.As posted it is more than me that thought it might be a business developed by the real Dyno Don.Not that hard given the way the rest of the business has been handle what he is.

Different moment.Still have a vested interest in the well being of this site and it's members.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Ok....
Let's address some issues here

Most of you have made some very good comments and are to be respected for that, one a real hunk of garbage, anybody that would respect that one, I feel for you.

Beside making these headers and Y-pipes I am the only one (it seems) that is capable of helping the 3rd gen guys in So. Ca. with the problems with their cars.
Shops around here don't know much about 3rd gens and tend to rip the guys off and still not repair their cars.

I must apologize to those of you that have been offended by my not responding in a timely manner.
I am a very busy guy ( for those of you that think I don't pay taxes, you are talking out your a) I am backlogged for month's trying to help everybody I can, I work alone and some times it is overwhelming. I don't mean to sound cavalier about it that is the way it is.

As far as advertizing do I really need to, according to some of you, if Somebody "says get a Mike Jones cam on this site or get a Tremec trans, or get a Walbro pump" you act like "they" should have to pay for advertizing.
If every time somebody mentions a different part to buy that means the guy that has that part, should have to pay for advertizing, you see how ridiculous that is.

Sure, I have encountered problems with my stuff, and I understand your frustrations, I have never meant to cause any pain or suffering to anyone.
Just please try to understand my side of it,
If any of you have a problem try to be a little reasonable about what to do,
if there is a question of fitment and you feel it is my fault, send it back and I will verify what is (if anything) is wrong. I will cover the cost if it is something I did wrong. Honestly, I would be an idiot if I didn't right?
To address the guys issues that came here to bash me, there is nothing I can say or do or say that will change that situation, I never got a chance to verify if anything was wrong, ( if you don't want to pay to ship it back what am I supposed to do, that's the way shipping works) others, I offered a fix that I would pay for.

I don't know what else I can say at this point

Good day gentlemen.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I think some of these posters have a misguided vendetta against Don and are being fueled with behind the scenes private messages from certain parties here in SoCal. If only the truth be known.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

Don, what you have described is what I have seen destroy so many service, or customer service oriented businesses over the years. People over-commit (with the best of intentions), get buried, end up with a ton of angry customers chasing them, and get mad, hide, or both.

Please take this the way it is intended. I'm not attacking you. You ask that people see this from your perspective, but I don't think you're seeing it from an individual customer's perspective, and as the guy taking their money in exchange for your product, you sorta have an obligation to do that.

Let's say I order a set of headers from you. A set of expensive headers. I keep going back to that, not to complain about the price, but to point out that you are, essentially a luxury product. I can get other headers at half the price, but I want the quality and 1 3/4" primaries that only Dyno Don headers offer.

I'm willing to pay that price, but at that price, I have high expectations. I used to go with my ex-father-in-law to the Porsche dealership when he'd drop it off and pick it up from being serviced. I used to work at a Ford dealership, and I was stunned at the way they fell all over themselves to care for their customers. When I'd mention it to him, it was clear he wasn't all that impressed; he expected that level of service. "It's a Porsche." he'd say, "not that Knight Rider Tonka Toy you drive".

I got it. He'd paid a lot of money for that car, he paid a lot of money for the servicing of that car, and he expected premium service to go along with it. Comparing his Porshe to my Formula is kinda like comparing your headers to Flowtechs, isn't it?

The other thing I think you're missing is, your problems are not your customers' problems, but their problems (with the parts they buy from you) are yours. This isn't a co-equal, give and take relationship. You took their money, you owe them a part that fits, and works. Your dealing with other customers aren't relevant, and putting new business ahead of making old business right is completely unacceptable.

When it doesn't fit, or work, it's up to you to be not only responsive, but proactively responsive. You didn't do that here. Waiting days for responses, then getting short, terse ones that appear to attempt to place the blame on the customer's car is virtually guaranteed to make them furious. They have their car spread all across the garage, or driveway, trying to install your part, and you won't respond to them. Meanwhile, you're on TGO responding to posts for new business. There is just no excuse for that, and you won't even address it directly.

There's a guy on this site named Ed Miller. He sells brake upgrades, and his parts are awesome. He sells at a reasonable price, he's very knowledgeable and (was) very helpful. He runs his business part-time, and branched out into other makes and models of cars. Pretty soon, he got overwhelmed. If you search in Vendor Reviews, you'll see post after post of people outlining their terrible experiences with him. No one complains about the parts, it's always the unreturned calls, emails, and PMs, broken promises, etc. It's been going on for years. He has over 3,500 posts, but he hasn't been active on this board since 2011, because every time he posted something, all of the disgruntled members came out of the woodwork (and rightfully so).

It makes me sad. He's a hell of a nice guy who likes (liked) helping people, offered unique parts and expertise to our community, but who became a pariah here simply because he allowed himself to become overwhelmed, didn't know how to deal with it, so he chose to not deal with it.

Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, there's Lon at Top Down Solutions. I've been buying parts from him for over 11 years, and every single experience has been wonderful. It's not just me. If you look in Vendor or Aftermarket Product Review, all you see are people gushing over his incredible customer service.

Now, you sell your headers through TDS, so clearly, you know Lon. My suggestion to you would be to call him, explain the problems you're having, and listen closely to his advice. Objectively describe the situation(s) being discussed here, and see how he would have handled it.

Good luck

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

How do I handle customer issues? If it is something I've manufactured, I have the customer return the product and verify if there is an issue and what it is. If there indeed was a problem with the product I correct it and ship it back. If it is something that another manufacturer made, I refer the issue to them. Examples include Dyno Don's headers or Alston's SFC's. In both cases they are the experts, since they were the manufacturer of the product. They do inform me of what was determined to be the issue. Also they want to be informed if there is any problem with the product. In many cases the issue can be handled with a returned phone call or e-mail. In a few cases it requires that the product be returned for evaluation.

Lon

(PS: to clear up any confusion I am NOT the Lon that appeared in vintage horror films)

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

In my opinion, that is the crux of the matter, here. Whatever priority list you might have for communication, customers who have purchased products from you, and are experiencing problems must go to the top of it.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I do understand what you are saying, if I could make them for any less I would do it.
I didn't take on the project to be the Cadillac of headers, I simply saw a need for the product for the 3rd gen world, I did try to make them so that there were not the issues all the others had ( in other words, fix all the problems the other 1 3/4" headers had). Spark plug clearance, gasket problems, warped flanges, ill fitting smog trees etc.

When I retired I did not want to sit around and dry up like an old prune, so I have dedicated my self to helping the 3rd gen cars to best of my ability.
I am rapidly approaching old age and I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this but I will till I drop.
I wish I could find a young protege I could pass this on to (my knowledge).

Along with working on cars comes a little adversity, sometimes it can't be avoided but believe me, I am trying. If you think all the guys I am backlogged with are happy around here, you are truly wrong.

I have a passion for 3rd gens and have had since the first one rolled off the showroom floor, I feel they are the best GM ever came up with and I know others around here share the same feelings.

We here on the west coast have been experimenting for years trying to make
our intake system better (picking up where GM left off) so the TPI system can make more power. Some have berated us for that, but I would rather make the system work than give up on it.

All I ask is try to be patient with me if I make a mistake, I can't possibly please everybody, there are always going to be problems when working with cars.
Most of the guys and gals I have dealt with around here have been very understanding, others not so much.

1gary

In one of my posts I did say we haven't taken on any new customers in yrs.Our return rate is next to nothing(considering we vend reconditioned used hard core race SBC parts I am real proud of that),but our returning customers for stuff to be freshen up or update is very strong.We spend a great deal of time in the sale educating exactly what the customer has bought and believe it or not do follow-up calls to check how that customer is doing.It is because of that we don't accept any new customers.It is the way we do business.

And it fits both my now ex-partner and myself where both of us has spent the better part of our lives helping people.

1gary

The mission statement for Internet Brands is to sell ad space.Clearly stated in the conditions of becoming a member on here.Aside from anyone else's behavior(excluding a private person selling off his stuff),clearly the def of spam is selling parts as a business not purchasing ad space.Doing a search on only Yahoo resulting in EBay ad's, 2 other site's members being solicited,this business is just that.A business.And under the same name of a business.

I took this cause up for only two reasons.To see the fellow members get taken care of and to insure a legend's name wasn't misused.I see the apology,so that might mean a road back to take care of the members on here and I don't know how much clearer I can state my feelings about the use of the rep of the real Dyno Don's name.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Dyno Don Nicholson started racing first, and Don was also given the same nickname when he started racing. I've met Dyno Don Nicholson myself at Pomona a few years ago, and he and Don were definitely friends and knew each other since racing at the same tracks in the 60's and 70's.

Do people who sell in the classifieds be made to buy ad space first? Whats the difference between Don, and someone who buys cars and parts them out in the classifieds section here?

Lastly, do people get the two boxers confused, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Sugar Ray Leonard?

1gary

Kevin.A personal ad vs a business.Key differences.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i sold heads/ custom made sheetmetal intakes , custom grind cams , and turbo headers for the v6 guys for years on here and was never required to pay to sell my stuff.i did it to help out like don does , i didnt make a ton of money doing it , infact i barley made money on anything i sold i did it to help fill a need for parts for the fellow community

i see no reason why he should either

1gary

These people would want to know what "they" are paying for.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/vendor_directory.php

The excuse of "helping" people is pretty weak.

project89

iTrader: (1)

they pay for the ability to advertise what they sell get a link on the forums and can do group purchases and other stuff , that the rest of us cant do

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

It's funny, when it was noticed a fetish member wassoliciting customers here for his custom chips, he was berated by the members to become a vendor or stop.

project89

iTrader: (1)

well look in the classifieds , theres a bunch of ppl who do nothing but sell stuff there , they list stuff all the time ,selling 100's of things and noone makes them be a vendor

i never advertised ppl would ask were to get something and others would tell them and they would pm me

i dont think dyno don advertises either

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

While me and Dyno Don have are differences.I must admit A lot of the same cars can have fitment issues with headers.Our Camaros can bend twist and sag over the years.I have a set of SLP shorty headers that I had to tweak to get them to clear the steering shaft. I just made a plate to raise the back of my trany so my intake would clear my strut tower brace so it wouldn't rub.I didn't have the problem before.Dyno Don has been a good source of information on this site.A lot of members with a wealth of experience and Knowledge have left.I apologize to Don for my negative comment.

1gary

OMG-Let's get off this merry-go-around.It's a commercial business.Period!!!.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

1gary: Sorry to add to your burdon you've taken upon yourself as a one-man rightous crusade to keep "Dyno Don" solely and exclusively for the late Dyno Don Nicholson. I just wanted to make you aware that there are others you'lll need to go after in your crusade.

http://dynodon.net/index3.html

http://dynodonkartengines.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/dynodon12

https://myspace.com/dyno_don

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dyno-don...lin/19/225/58a

https://twitter.com/dondyno1

http://www.chromjuwelen.com/de/netwo...tokurties.html

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=18049

http://www.firstpost.com/topic/perso...-16014-29.html

http://newsle.com/person/dynodonresslerii/41651525

http://blogs.streetrodderweb.com/671...esource-board/

http://www.acousticguitarcommunity.com/profile/DynoDon

http://www.frequency.com/video/dyno-...7162/-/5-45660

http://www.ussearch.com/search/peopl...YGV?refer=8083

http://www.yasni.info/show_image.php...n&rg=us&rip=us


Sadly, I think you joined here 11 years too late to file your claim to TGO that Don L should be forced to abandon a moniker he's had for now the 5th decade. But I wish you luck in your quest, thought I find it to be pointless and without merit.

Lon

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The contact point is the k-member.

To bend the k-member that much, you would have to hit a wall at 150mph.

The K-member can move around a bit as their is slop in the mounting holes, and I suppose if the motor mounts are too shallow the engine will sit a bit lower. But this problem is simply because not enough clearance exists for the chosen pipe routing.

-- Joe

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

You could put a spacer plate between the engine and steel motor mount to raise the motor up if the motor mount is to shallow or sets to low.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You could, but then if you run a high rise intake you risk hood clearance. Even a HSR rubs some hoods.

I think the better alternative is to fix the design on the headers, or make your own.

-- Joe

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

If your running a high rise intake most would also run a cowl induction hood.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Reminds me of "Wild Bill", I know 3 of them, and I don't expect any of them to end up in a shootout!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Why would you do that? I have a high rise intake, elbow, 94MM throttle body, and a single T76 turbo under the stock hood.

Like I previously mentioned with the HSR, a singleplane intake with an elbow or throttle body hat, etc are all going to be close to a stock hood. Raising up the engine wouldn't be my game plan.

-- Joe

1gary

Not to sound sarcastic Lon,but thanks for the list.I do feel the same about what has happened to Oddy Automotive with what Billy has done with that after all the blood,sweat,and tears Jim Oddy put into that.

Lon,without side stepping the one on here,with questionable product design,questionable customer service,and questionable business practices in terms of the site itself is what I am addressing.

It now seems (hopefully)he is willing to take care of outstanding members customer service issues.To coin a phase"the power of Thirdgen" has worked.

I found it interesting that another member brought up a hard time Rbob had about the same thing not being a paid advertiser.

It's a tough call that Admin's/ mod's with privileges have to make when called in question about the paid advertisers vs unpaid businesses using the site.Certainly it is a thankless tough job.

But for me now,it so much easier.My sole interest is the lights are on the site daily and towards that end my quest is someone is paying for that.I'll continue to contribute paying it forward giving advise from yrs of experience.Not really a noble cause at all.Just practical.

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

Like I said in my post I am raising the rear trans mount to lower the front of the engine and raise the back of the engine to gain back the clearance for my strut tower brace.This will also also give more room for the front of the Stealth Ram and headers.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Are you adjusting the rear end so your pinion angle is within the margin ?

-- Joe

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

Yes I have the angle reader.The rear rubber mount on the trans for the torque arm is another part that wears out on the Camaros.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

And trust me, there is an emotional, excitable, wildly aggressive player named "Nick The Greek" in every poker room in America (and some of them are even from Greece).

Why are they always named "Nick? I don't know. Why are they always Greek? I don't know, but you never see a guy named "Nick From France" call your all-in on an inside straight draw, hit it on the river, and begin shouting in barely legible English while he downs another shot of Ouzo.

visitor

Man people are WAAAAY to upset over this nonsense.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I can only hope it works in other ways, now that you have exposed yourself.

B4CHawk

Don has proven over and over again that he will go out of his way to fix mistakes that he has made. If you don't like his headers, don't buy them... he has plenty of customers waiting to buy his headers.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

Thanks newb

B4CHawk

TA

iTrader: (1)

After reading a lot of this, I agree there is a LOT more going on here than header fitment. I know him and I know he will make it good if he is convinced that there is a problem with the part he just built on a jig, vs a quarter century old car with an unknown past. Where would you start?

I had a fitment problem on one of my cars (salvage title) after buying a used set (fit the original owners car fine). I put them on a third different car, and they cleared by a mile. Your experience may differ...

Dyno Don is for real. He's an old pro stock racer and has had that nickname since before many of you were born. If you really thought he was Dyno Don Nicholson and were SO impressed by it, why didn't you ask him for an autograph?

He's a wily old bird that knows his what he is talking about and doesn't take crap. I have seen people be condescending or rude to him, they did not like the results. The personal attacks signal to me that this is not about header fitment. I believe some of these people copped an attitude and got their little feelings hurt. They are not the first to go after him for it.

It's also interesting that this is supposedly about a shoddy product, and Lon Salgren is held up as a shining example of a good business model, yet Lon sells Dyno Dons headers. Again, a personal matter, not about the product itself or even really the support. Lon is a great guy, but Lon has a totally different kind of business and workload than Don. If you expect every business to meet TDS' standards for customer service, you are in for a very unhappy life.

I have been to Dons' shop, and seen him get interrupted endlessly by people needing his help and advice, and it is flabbergasting how many then turn around and ignore the advice they came to get.

TA

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

Wow, that kid sure knows his Internets!

Slash

I agree with GP90GTA (George) I'm the 4th Friend he must've forgot O.o But i'm Not from the NYC I'm 3.5hours Upstate.

I've had my set of Dyno Don Headers/Ypipe on my car for a year now And they fit like a glove, everything is spec'd out great and I have room all around. I did not have to modify a thing. I'm fully and happily 100% Satisfied with my setup.

Don you got my support

heh missed an entire page of posts apparently. NON THE LESS, my opinion stands.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Don, I'm only going to mention this to help others that are considering buying your headers with the Y-pipe in the future….please let anyone buying your headers with the Y-pipe that the Y will only fit certain styles of oil pans. Perhaps list the known pans that fit with part numbers…or send out measurements to people so they can decide if your Y-pipe will fit...

A lot of different oil pans are being used out there that are not original Thirdgen pans, but they fit a Thirdgen chassis just fine.

Let's face it…there's a good portion of people that have already modded their engines and are looking at the 1-3/4 primary tubes on your shorty headers for better flow than the 1-5/8" primaries offer. If they were keeping the car all stock, they wouldn't be buying headers for it.

It would have helped me a lot, because as you know - the Y-pipe you make didn't fit under my oil pan….but that pan fit my chassis just fine - the headers fit too. And it was a stamped steel pan…nothing exotic at all.

That being said, Don did try to work with me. First, I sent my Y-pipe back to him, and he made an adjustment that still didn't work. Then I actually sent Don my oil pan which he notched and re-welded and sent it back….the Y-pipe fit….but it was literally tightening up against the bottom of the pan…not good. It also reduced my pan oil capacity to only holding 4 quarts since it was notched so much.

So now my engine is out of the car for other reasons, but I searched this site for ANY pan for a 400 small block that would work with your Y-pipe. Seems the Canton road race pan will work with it, so that's what I now have.

Unfortunately, I now need to get another Y-pipe since I had to tweak the one I have so much just to drive the car last summer. The rather expensive pan, and now another Y-pipe adds quite a bit of expense to a set of headers and Y-pipe that is supposed to fit Thirdgens.

dabomb6608

iTrader: (3)

I had a similar situation with mine. Ended up getting this (SPECTRA PREMIUM GMP08A) oil pan. Was cheap, fit fine, and fits his Y-Pipe just fine. I knew in advance I would have oil pan problems when I went to install his exhaust so I researched and came across that pan. Something like that might be unexpected for some, but it is at no fault to Don. The oil pan I had might have fit the chassis just fine. But not a single Y-pipe that takes a route under the oil pan on the market would have fit it. Its just one of those things. You swap motors/oil pans/buy cars that have been messed with, then you take the risk of parts not working together.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Confuzed1, that is an issue that has plagued the aftermarket industry since the very first person tried to install two aftermarket parts on his car. Companies make parts to fit a stock engine and a stock car. They dont usually take into account all the different options from other companies out there, as they would go bankrupt making several different models with several different tweaks to them. Don's headers/y-pipe are made to fit the stock 305/350 oil pan, as that's what our cars came with. For some reason many of the aftermarket oil pans have a slope to them that interferes with the y-pipe, instead of the 90* angles like the stock pan. I wish I knew why the oil pan companies did this, because I can't think of a good reason.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Probably because they didn't think you would be running a crossover in that space.

I'm running a 400 block and a summit pan. I've never run a off-shelf y-pipe, but when I made my crossover I fit a 2 1/2" pipe without issue. I've got about 3/4" clearance to the pan.

-- Joe

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Funny....Somehow I don't find it difficult to tell everyone that if you deviate from a stock oil pan, it might not fit - and to provide a few measurements anyone could take to determine if the Y-pipe will fit. It could be a form letter.

If this were 30 years ago, I could understand....no internet, etc. When I go to order parts at JEGS or Summit I always take a look at the part's instructions....very insightful, and it lets you know what you'll have to go through to install that item. And they're selling literally MILLIONS of different parts....Don is selling one, so I don't see the difficulty in providing that info.

If I had known, I would have kept the Edelbrock TES headers....(that y-pipe fit this pan BTW) until I found an oil pan that fit BOTH my 400 AND allowed his Y-pipe to fit.

As it stands, he doesn't mention anything other than they are designed to fit Thirdgens. His Y-pipe didn't fit mine...

When I bolted my blower on top on top of the 400, I didn't expect to shut my stock hood down when I got done installing it....but I expected that. Gotta say, I expected his y- pipe to fit under my stock stamped steel oil pan that fit right in my car in the first place....

You're not talking to someone here that's not familiar with modifying things....my car is living proof. Again, an off the shelf Edelbrock Y pipe fit....Don's Y pipe didn't. Let's not tilt the teeter-totter too far the other way....and I'm not bashing Don or his headers. Headers I received and am still running are nice, but if I had known about the issues with the Y pipe, I would have waited till I had a pan to support installing them...