tartagliaz28

iTrader: (8)

Hr power and torque down with the efi? Did you have a lot of tune time for the efi before the dyno run? I see the oil temp and pressure was way different that could be it.

RamIt

sid, was this dyno with the self learning tune or were you guys tuning on the dyno?

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for posting it up Sid! Hard to believe you're losing 20 pounds of torque and HP with the EFI....I have a feeling it hadn't self learned yet??

robotic_junky

Here's a good comparison of carb vs. FiTech. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ghlight=Fitech

a62belair

Carb cars had a return by the fuel pump...
a bypass at the pump.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Yes, the carbed cars have a return line.....

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Any updates? Im considering doing this to my Camaro next winter/spring.

sid 91RS

nothing happening on my build, came to bit of a stall. hopefully i get can back get car back on road this month and test out new engine/efi
will update when i do

robotic_junky

I have the 600HP NA one running in my 72 c10 with HEI distributor, now. I'm running the Fuel Command Center (FCC) with my mech. fuel pump and the original gas tank that's in my cab. Basic Chevy 350, retro fit roller cam, long tube headers, aluminum heads, single plane high rise intake manifold, full roller rockers.

I haven't ran it long enough to give a review. Seems good so far. No problem starting up, I turn the key to the on position and let the FCC pressurize the system (this how I do it). Then it starts quick. It was running rich like 12.5:1 so I've changed some things around I got it down around 14.3:1 when idling. I just need to run it some more and make some adjustments.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Finally got the car fired up using the FItech 1200. I decided for whatever reason to utilize the FItech timing control...I'm beginning to wish I hadn't.

It started right up, but it does surge a bit and it's running rich. I found out the whole reason for that is I had the timing set too retarded. In their instructions, it says to basically lock out the mechanical advance and "phase" your distributor rotor to wherever you want your initial timing to be. Well - with a carb and non-locked out distributor, I used to set my initial mechanical advance to 19 degrees, then I'd plug in my vacuum advance.

So - I set my distributor for 19 degrees initial....I later found out that when they say "initial" timing, they mean mechanical PLUS vacuum advance....so I should have set the distributor up for about 29 degrees initial! So, I need to set the distributor up all over again using an adjustable rotor.

Since this is on a roots blown car it's going to take a bit of additional tuning since the default values on the handheld are more for a NA car than a blown car like mine. What I didn't know beforehand on the timing control, is that everything must be set up manually....no self learn on where it "should" be.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Question for you guys that have set these systems up. Assuming I input my timing curve, and where I want my fuel ratio at, will all the rest of the fuel tables self learn? - will it create its own fuel curve, or will I need to adjust those too?

As I look over these Handheld controller feature definition sheets from FItech, it's not clear to me at all.

I guess what I'm asking, is what exactly will "self learn"..... And what won't??

EDIT: And as far as timing goes, I plan to set it up for a base timing at idle between 23-25 degrees, and under full boost at WOT I plan to set max advance at 30 degrees. For cruising around not under boost, I'll set my max timing at 45 degrees under light load...like cruising on the highway.....does this make sense? Or is this too much?

Oh, and as far as fuel ratio goes, I'll set it up for about 12:1 under boost, and around 13.5:1 under light load, no boost....

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Zach -

If you could share where you put all your initial settings, I would really appreciate it! Not that they would be exact on mine, but it sounds like a good starting point for me!

Are you controlling timing with yours? Depending on how this works out, I may swap back to a ready to run distributor....I just don't look forward to digging back into the wiring at all.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What's the issue with the timing control?

-- Joe

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Hey Joe! -I'm sure it's my own doing. I set my initial timing setting for 19 degrees and thought I had "phased" my locked out distributor to 19. I'm thinking when I did my first startup, the engine just didn't like the timing that retarded. It was idling (barely) and ran pig rich. It was also heating up pretty quick which to me, is a sure sign my timing was way off.

So when I tried to twist the distributor to advance the timing, I think I went out of range - so to speak - on the reluctor and began getting a weak spark and the engine began surging and sputtering.

I was told by the FItech rep that I need to have the adjustable rotor in order to phase this distributor properly, or else I risk cross firing "especially with such a small distributor cap" he said. So when I get this adjustable rotor, I'll set this distributor up to the letter in thier instructions and see what happens.

I guess I'm still not clear on how to set this initial timing....with a standard distributor with advance, I used to set my mechanical initial timing at 21-22 degrees BTDC, and then I'd plug in the vacuum advance and end up around 30 degrees total advance at idle. It would run cleaner and smoother there. I'm not sure on this FItech whether I should be inputting 21 degrees, or 30 degrees....in other words, should I be considering the added timing the vacuum advance gave me on a standard distributor or not?!? Heck, I'm not even positive the hand held controller will allow me to set initial that high.

Also, with a standard distributor, my timing while cruising down the freeway with no boost was around 45 degrees total. For WOT under boost, I used a 10 degree bushing in the mechanical advance which limited it to 31 degrees - and I had (still have) a boost retard to pull out further timing on the fly if needed. I could pull out 1.5 degrees of timing per pound of boost depending on how I had it set in the car.

Now I need to translate this somehow and enter all this in the handheld controller. And that's just the timing. Then there's A/F ratio limits etc...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

On an electronic distributor the rotor doesn't "Move" towards the terminal to advance, it simply fires. This is why you have a limitation of 45* max advance because at 45* you are almost in the dead center between posts and you run the risk of the arc jumping to either post.

The phasing kit is nice, but on a blown application I wonder if you'd have that much of a curve to need it. For example.

I idle at 20 degrees. My max advance under full boost is 25 degrees. I have some under boost stuff that approaches 30 degrees in the table but it's nearly impossible to hit those MAP vs RPM points. My 'lean cruise' is also often in the high 30s of 40s but I don't often hit that in a race car either.

So anyway, I usually set my base as advanced as possible (without causing hot crank issues). This is the initial, or "offset" or whatever the ECU vendor calls it. I tell the software what this "offset" is, say 15 degrees, 18 degrees, whatever. Then my timing table adds the rest electronically. I'd rather the ECM be adding only 4 or 8 degrees to get my target total, rather than the rotor being 15+ degrees away from the terminal.

I'm using a large cap HEI now. I used to use the small cap, but I like the coil in cap.

30 degrees at idle? Wow.

So, the way I do a new combo is I disable my electronic advance. I fire it up, and I turn the dizzy advanced until my idle is nice and stable. I check with a light to see where I am (say 20, 22, etc degrees). I lock it down and let it get nice and hot. I shut it down and re-crank. If my re-crank is ok, I'll either leave it like that or take a few degrees out and lock it down. (Recheck the number, and record that as my base/offset/whatever.

I'll then go into my software, I'll set that as my base. I'll then edit my advance table and make sure my idle area is exactly what my original checked value was where I had a very stable idle.

Now, you may find yourself wanting to add more advance to clean up the cam, but don't go too crazy.

Remember - the controller only needs to know what your initial advance is so it knows what to add to achieve your TARGET ADVANCE. Just don't put too much initial that you will have a hard time with a hot start. Also, in theory it's possible to command a retarded trigger (fire the coil after the rotor passed the terminal), but not all software will support a commanded value below your initial advance.

Lean part throttle cruise in the 40s sounds about right, just depends on how you use your car. With a manual I'd expect that. With an auto and a loose converter it's more of an on/off than a lean cruise so I wouldn't expect it.

In any event, I'd be using the ECM to control your advance and disconnect the BTM. I don't like retarding timing as boost goes up, studies have shown it causes very high EGT's and wastes fuel. A roots/screw/kb/whatever blower should have a pretty straight boost curve. I'd ramp out your advance based on RPM, add a few degrees after peak torque, and see how it goes.


You'll get the hang of it..

-- Joe

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Joe - First off, thanks for the help!

I hope you don't mind me quoting you on all this...makes it easier for me! Lots of info in your post!
QUOTE]On an electronic distributor the rotor doesn't "Move" towards the terminal to advance, it simply fires. This is why you have a limitation of 45* max advance because at 45* you are almost in the dead center between posts and you run the risk of the arc jumping to either post.[/QUOTE]
OK, that's pretty much what the description of the FItech Spark map says:
SPARK MAP: The spark advance uses a 3x3 matrix table to allow flexible spark advance control. This can allow distributor simulation, locked timing, boost retards, high RPM advancing and other strategies to optimize the ignition spark advance angle. The distributor must be locked out. Spark advance during cranking will happen at or after the VR tooth crosses the sensor. Above cranking, spark advance will only be equal to or more than the base advance, regardless of the value entered in the handheld for timing.
What does it mean when it talks about spark advance during cranking? Isn't it the same as base advance? - which is the same as initial advance at idle??
I can bet I'm not making the boost you are. I max out at 7-8 pounds, so I set my max advance under full boost a bit higher...around 28-30 and get away with it. I guess my 8.95:1 compression and AFR heads help with that too.

I can't use any HEI distributor - cap is too big and hits the back of the blower. Since I installed the FItech, I have my MSD boost retard disabled. I only still have the box for the multi-spark to help clean it up. The only new part of my combo is the FItech....so I'm hoping I can use the same initial and max advance limits I used previous.

I think my biggest hurdle with all of this is understanding the terms FItech uses. It needs to be in simpler terms...(simple terms even I can understand)

They have....16 PAGESof Handheld controller definitions.
http://fitechefi.com/virtualoffice_f...efinitions.pdf

-And they have some recommended AFR settings and timing advance settings, but I'm real hesitant to use them since they are geared towards a NA engine.

I was told by the rep that the ECM will not add any timing by itself, and it's not a self-learning feature of this system since it doesn't come with a knock sensor. So I have to tell it everything when it comes to timing. I'll need to re-read your post a few times, and I'm sure I'll have a few more questions (maybe a lot) as I go along!

-Thanks again!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

At crank, it can't retard past your initial base. For example, lets say it's running at 800 RPM idle and your base advance is 20 degrees. It knows the rpm is 800 based on the VR sensor, so it can count how many degrees into the next firing event to fire the coil (retarded).

It cannot do this while cranking, so it can either let the distributor do the firing (off module), or add advance. It cannot retard timing during crank.

GM electronic HEI requires a 5volt signal to tell it to run off the ECU rather than the module. (the module has built in advance curve). So for example, lets say you set your base timing at 20 degrees, but you tell the ECU to crank/idle at 25 degrees. It will energize the EST wire with 5 volts, and then send trigger the coil at 25 degrees BTDC.

Yeah, that makes sense then.

Every system is different. When I stopped usng the stock DELCO stuff and started playing with aftermarket I was lost initially as well. Soo many different options and ways of doing things.

I have my knock sensor disabled presently.. All it does is pick up vibrations from the blower and trigger false knock.

Based on the document you linked to, I don't think the base timing map is used at idle. It appears to have a separate idle advance option, so keep that in mind. It probably switches to the 3x3 table the second the TPS sensor picks up throttle movement. Make sure your advance transition is smooth or you will get a dead spot. If you advance too quickly, you'll get a backfire.


Edit: You are using the "GO efi" handheld right?? This thing is more limited than I had originally thought. Looking at the quick start manual, it doesn't actually have a timing table. You just answer questions about specific advance at different points and it interpolates between them using it's own algorithm.


Good luck

-- Joe

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Joe...I'm living up to my screen name on this one! Lemme see if I'm reading your post right...
OK - so it doesn't have a "start retard" built in for timing. I've never used one anyway.

But - Let me use FItech's definition to see if I understand this...
- it sounds like I can let's say, set my "Dist Base Deg" to what you said....20 degrees - which is the timing it will have while cranking right?
-Then after the engine starts, I can add 5 more degrees into the handheld under "Idle Advance" section so I end up with 25 degrees of timing at idle - right?? Would I enter that into the handheld as "5" or "25"??
Also, I still have the "VR Advance 4000" which I don't know what to do with.It talks about matching actual timing with a timing light to the "Displayed Spark Advance" at 4000 RPM. I need to hold this thing at 4000 RPM - really? I'm still trying to figure out where this "Displayed Spark Advance" is on the handheld. There's nothing labeled like that on there.
I've not really got to this point yet....trying to tune off-idle. It seems to me that I need to enter what advance I want at 3 different RPM ranges - 1100, 3000, 6000. I can only go by what I've had in the past using a standard distributor with weights and springs.
-I had all my advance in by 2500, which was 28-30 degrees. Of course, I used a bushing to limit the mechanical advance since my initial was set high, and I had the vacuum can unplugged when I verified it with a timing light. I assume I would use this curve under "Boost 1100, 3000 and 6000" - right? That should be easy since I'm only advancing 4-5 degrees over the idle timing.

-Then it seems like I can punch in a separate curve for when the engine is not under boost using the other points they call "1100 45kPa, 3000 45kPa Cruise, 6000 45kPa" -Here's where the curve is longer correct? Like highway driving at part throttle, 2800 RPM, 40 degrees of advance timing - type curve??

BUT - then what do I do with the other points they call "WOT 1100 95kPa,WOT 3000 95kPa,WOT 6000 95kPa"?? Wouldn't this be the same timing curve I use under "Boost" or no??

And yeah, I'm using the handheld "GO EFI".....I think it just has standard timing tables built-in dependent in which cam profile you select...i.e., Stock, Mild, Street/strip, and Wild...and I doubt any of the standard tables will support my setup. Heck - if they did, I wouldn't be on here asking all these questions!! I'd be driving it. That's part of the reason why I'm considering going back to my old timing setup....it wasn't perfect, but it ran pretty well. The last thing I want to do is detonate this engine to failure!!

Sorry, but I warned you about further questions!!

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

-BTW Joe

Funny - Looking at your sig, It looks like we are running the same cams actually. I have the NX276 installed in mine. I have a few cubes less at 408, and smaller heads with AFR 195's.

I'm still waiting on this adjustable rotor to arrive....I decided to re-check the distributor for proper phase like the instructions said. In the end, you want to set the balancer to the advance timing you want, then you want the distributor reluctor paddle (one of 8) to align perfectly with the magnetic pickup, and the rotor needs to point right at the #1 plug terminal at the cap at the same time. I have it dialed in correctly. I decided to set it at 24 degrees advanced.

The ONLY thing it seems they are saying to do with the adjustable rotor is to use the adjustment to turn the rotor button 10 degrees further than the terminal on the cap. I'm not positive why....maybe to allow an extra 10 degrees of advance timing?

I know you mentioned that I may not need this adjustable rotor since my timing curve is going to be short....BUT...it's only going to be short while I'm in boost right? I'll need the extra advance while I'm cruising around at part throttle. That's why I had a BTM hooked up to the car before....you can only really run one timing curve on a conventional distributor, so the BTM sensed when I was in a boost condition and backed off the total timing advance.

I suppose I could run around with the same curve I set for boost all the time...but it would suck more gas and run hotter while cruising around on the street ...right??

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

i just bought the EFI system for cars up to 400hp. cant wait!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You would put 25 degrees. That is why it needs to know the initial, so it knows how much it needs to add to get to your target. Every value you enter will be the target.

Yeah, I read that too. Most aftermarket stuff has a screen where you can verify advance with a light. The handheld controller seems very limited.

Right, and then it interpolates between those values to produce the 'curve'.


That would be my guess. Just ramp it out to 30 degrees or whatever.

That is to simulate your vac advance. During higher vac (cruise, decel, etc) you want more advance cuz it's lean. So you can ramp it out to probably 38-40 degrees.

That is a great question. For now, i'd probably set those values to 28-30 degrees, whatever you ran before. You might need to call them and ask them if it table switches between the "WOT" and "BOOST". I'm guessing that > 95 kpa it switches to the boost table. So for example, if you wanted more low wend you could run 34-36 degrees up to 95 kpa (wot table), then when it switches to the boost table it would be 28-30 degrees. However, like I said before, I'm not a huge fan of retarding timing as boost increases. But every combo is different.

No, the values we discussed above build the timing table. It's just an awkward approach.

I think the boost curve would only engage > 95kpa. So you'll be on the 45ka curve during cruise and decel, the WOT curve when WOT and under 95kpa (no boost).


-- Joe

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for all the help Joe! It seems at least, I'm just a little confused, and I'll have to work within any limitations the system has. After re-phasing the distributor to ensure I'm in range, I hope it'll idle better than it did the first attempt.

I expect it to run a bit rough at first, but supposedly at 170 degrees, it begins to adjust the fuel on its own.

One big thing I've learned on a roots blown car is that when you start it up cold, you need extra fuel and it needs to run on the rich side till it begins to warm up. Otherwise, you get a lean backfire from hell! It sounds literally like a shot gun going off....and can't be good for the blower or engine.

So - I think there's a good chance I'll have to fiddle with the cold start fuel tables too. I'll end up calling FItech to ask them since I know I'm not the first roots engine to have one of their systems installed on.

Anyways, I'll report back on how it goes!

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, wish I could say everything's going peachy...but it's not. I set everything up like the instructions said using my adjustable rotor. Went to start, and it started right up. You can hear a loud hissing of air....and then after a couple of minutes it goes away. I think it's the IAC attempting to adjust air flow at idle.

Then it'll idle pretty smooth for about 4 minutes....at high idle still since it's a cold engine. Then as it starts to warm up, all the sudden the engine almost dies...it sputters down to nearly dining and suddenly shoots back up and idles smooth for another minute or so, then drops down, sputters and almost dies again. It went through about three cycles of almost dying and then regaining idle.

Then after about 5 minutes after startup as the engine is just beginning to warm up, the idle dives to almost nil one last time, and it actually dies. I did this twice,,the second time I decided to put my timing light on it. When it sputters down to almost nothing, my timing light goes dark....it's losing spark. Called Bryce from FItech, and he seems to think either:
1. my MSD 6BTM box might be interfering with the FItech wiring. He said to keep the connections away from the MSD box, or else what I'm describing can happen. -or -
2. I have a loose connection somewhere.

-I guess I'll do the easiest first...try and move my wiring harness and connections further away from the MSD box....oh brother.

GreggymacZ28

I havnt posted recently about my FITECH purchase as things were not going smoothly for me as well and i decided to give it time and see if i could work things out before i started posting and cause bad advertising when it was not deserved. However, i have reached my breaking point.

I purchased the FITECH Meanstreet EFI on February 12th 2016 along with their Fuel Command Center. I was pretty excited and this was going on my 84 camaro which is a Drag bracket car. I was hoping that EFI would allow me to monitor more things and allow me to achieve a better consistency at the track. I had everything installed and ready to go by March 7th. At this time after the install the car started right up and had zero issues. I was pretty excited to say the least. I took it out on the street (mind you this car is not street legal, so i had to do a lot of work to get the car back to street legal) and the car ran okay. However, at wide open throttle i could not get the thing to stop cutting out. The target afr was 12.4 and the system was only hitting 16.8 at best.

After messing with this and logging over 3 hours of drive time, i decided to give FITECH a call. I got Bryce on the phone and spend about 10 minutes verifying that i myself did not do anything wrong when i finally can start to talk about the issue at hand. I get told that i need to increase the ACCEL Pump. I do this, and things seem to start getting better. This is where things took a turn for the worse...

After i increase the ACCEL pump the stumble at wot does seem to get better. I go to adjust the Accel pump more on the handheld and the handheld goes dark. So i turn the car off and restart it and the handheld is still off. I call FITECH and they tell me the cord must have unplugged from the throttle body. It did not. They tell me to check for voltage at the end of the power cord that goes to the handheld. I do and see 12 volts. Then they tell me the handheld must be fried somewhere on the inside from me pushing the power cable in to hard (go figure). So they say no problem we will send you a new one. At this point, it is now around the end of March. Opening day of racing starts on April 2nd so i am getting a little bit antsy as i am in the points. Anyway, because they are in california they tell me they cannot get me a new handheld for 4 business days.

4 days later i do get the handheld and am excited to get it plugged in and finally get this thing running as that weekend was one of the first races and i needed things together. I plug in the brand new handheld and fire the car up and i still have a blank handheld... The car runs (as it did before) but i cannot change anything as the handheld does not work. I call FITECH and tell them that this handheld does not work either and then ask them if there is any way i can get into the ECU from my laptop. They tell me that the only way i can tune my car is by the use of this handheld and if it does not work there is nothing they or i can do without sending the entire Meanstreet EFI unit back to them. We troubleshoot the system some more and i am finally told that there must be something wrong in the ECU that is sending a code to not allow the handheld to work. They then tell me that i will need to send the unit back to them for them to inspect it. At this point, with them being in California and me being in Michigan i know that this is along time for my car not to be working and am pretty upset with the entire system and the customer service. I ask if there is any way i can get a refund as the season will be halfway over by the time i get the system back and at that time i will not need it anymore. They tell me, "sorry to be blunt but there is no way you are going to get a refund, sending it back is the only option" so I'm annoyed but i comply. They tell me they are shipping me a box that has an RMA on it so that it won't cost me anything to ship and say it will arrive in 4 days. After 2 days i get to thinking, and thought that that was kind of dumb, why couldn't i just get emailed an RMA sheet and send it back in the original box? So i call and ask them this question. In which they respond that this is the only way they accept returns they were never going to send me box. I am pretty confused with them at this point, and tell them that they just told me two days ago they were going to send me a box and make my order an extreme priority. At this point, the guy on the line goes to talk to the guy who told me this two days prior and comes back on the phone to tell me he is sorry but the other guy got confused. huh?

Now to sum it all up, i put the carb back on and took the car out on the street and the car ran perfect. 100x better than the efi. I told my dad (who was on the test drive with me) that if i would have paid $1500 to change from the meanstreet to the carb i would have been happy with my purchase. Anyway, i have already run 4 races now with the carb and the car is running just as good as ever and am honestly embarrassed about the money i have lost and wasted on this unit.

I called FITECH today as tracking on my package said they received my package last Tuesday and wanted to see what the issue was with my ECU. They told me they have not gotten to it yet. But before i sent it to them they told me it would only be a 24 hour turn around. So i convey this to him in which he tells me that he's sorry but they were doing a "personnel change" so i need to be understanding of their situation. I said okay thanks and hung up as at this point i am at my wits end with this company and its customer service/product.

I am not here to bash FITECH, i think that with time i could have made their product work. I also think they did not expect to grow as large as quickly as they did and this caught them by surprise. I think they are just in over their head and are saying what they can to get concerned customers off of the phone.

At this point i cannot get a refund, i also can not sell it for a loss as i do not even have a working product and would not want to sell it until i know it works and that i wouldn't be screwing someone else over along the way.

Anyway, just thought i would share my experience so that others may be more prepared for what they will face if they decide to buy the system. I am sure they have good products but at this time i do not think the company is capable of having any kind of tech support for their customers let alone being able to fix issues quickly. If everything goes completely smooth for you then you should be fine.

I hope others do not have to experience the same thing and won't be $1500 out of pocket like I am. Live and learn i guess.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well.....that's not reassuring.

I moved my wiring away from my MSD box the best I could, so hopefully the box would not interfere with the tach wire as they said. No dice. The car started up and ran for about 2 minutes, and sputtered out. I'm trying my hardest to prove its something I did to cause this. So I went back over all my wiring connections....as per FItech's instructions, I soldered all the ones I could, and used marine shrink sleeve to seal everything. It's a bear to take off.

Plus, I need to pull my distributor out in order to get to a few of the connections. Not a whole lot of room with a blower in the way...in other words, it sucks. So I yanked all the plug wires and pulled the distributor. Every wire connection is fine....solid.

Now I'm to the point where I think I'll rewire and reinstall my old Unilite and not mess around with trying to get this FItech to control timing. At least I know the engine won't die, and I the timing curve is correct....plus I can use my MSD 6 BTM for what it's designed to do. -I didn't have any issues with the car sputtering out with the conventional distributor either. It might be something I did the whole time, but I'm not finding it. If nothing else, it's a good way to see if there's anything wrong with the FI.....

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What is your AFR during cold idle, and warm idle right before it dies ?

-- Joe

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

It seems to be trying to hit the target AFR of 14, but when rpm suddenly drops way off, it'll cycle down to 12 and start sputtering and running really rich. I know if the rpm drops too low, and intake manifold vacuum drops to around 5", and I'm assuming it does when this happens...the bypass on the blower will shut and boost will kick in....which makes it worse. Then after sputtering and running pig rich at maybe 100 rpms - if that - the idle will shoot back up and try to find target AFR again. It's doing this all the way up till warm, that's about the time it dies all together.

I had the base timing set at 24, and zero spark advance. I was just trying to see if it would idle....this is super frustrating. That's why I think I'll take timing out of the equation....and see if it can even control fuel without sputtering out.

Dudeman1531

iTrader: (1)

Saw this on another forum Confuzed:
Seems to me that he's describing a similar situation here.

He also has another video dealing with idle surge:
Good luck man hope you figure it out.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Dudeman!

In the first vid you posted, in sounds like the person is running his with timing control, which is what I was attempting to do. First thing I noticed right off the bat....his Spark Advance was moving around. That's what I expected to see from mine...but mine was froze the whole time the car was idling. On the first start, I set my base timing at 24 degrees, and my advance to 28 degrees, then after I started it the Spark Advance didn't move at all. It started frozen right where I set it. So I "synchronized" my distributor with what the Spark Advance was reading like the instructions said, and the number stayed frozen.

I'd be happier with an idle like the second video has. Mine will settle out at one rpm, then out of no where, it almost shuts down completely....much worse than just a surge. There's definitely something wrong with his fan setup though. That's one thing that seems to be working on mine...

What that means, or how to fix it...I don't know. Neither vid is the issue I have, but good to see nonetheless....especially the part about the IAC. Definitely something I need to look at. Lots of guys are having the stumble upon acceleration issues with these. I haven't gotten that far yet....

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Been busy...I rewired everything to go back to my Unlite distributor with vacuum advance. I set the initial advance at 22 when I first started the car. I did not have the vacuum can hooked up yet. Same deal...it wanted to begin surging up and down 500 rpm's, and if allowed to continue the swings in rpm would get wider and wider progressively until it would finally stall out.

So then I began adjusting the primary and secondary butterflies open, which would cause it to idle up at 1800 or so...but at least at the high rpm is seemed to stay steadier. So I shut it down and allowed the IAC to reset itself and started it back up. It reduced the rpm's on it own...I assume it was trying to seek my idle rpm I had set at 850. But it would drop below it, then pop back up past it...cycled again...but not quite as bad. Maybe I was getting somewhere by adjusting the butterflies...

So - I decided I needed more initial advance because it seemed to be running pig rich, and it couldn't compensate to make it run leaner with my timing set like I had it?? - It was only a guess, but what do I have to lose?

When I ran my carb, I always had the vacuum can plugged in at idle with full manifold vacuum. So that's what I did. So I start it up with the vacuum can plugged in, and got a total of 34 degrees of advance if I blipped the throttle open...and it would settle down at 32 degrees....it was running at 1500 rpms or so. But the idle wasn't slowing down. So I closed the butterflies slowly and actually got it to idle kind of stable at 850, with a little surging up/down 200 rpm or so. I had the idle A/F set at 14:1, so I dropped it richer to 13.5:1 hit "enter" and it began idling smoother - Not perfect, but smoother albeit it smells a tad on the rich side.

Only issue I see now - aside from not having a perfectly smooth idle - is when I blip the throttle open it seems to return to idle more slowly than what it should. Any idea how to get it to drop down more normally? Any other settings I should look into?

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Took the car out for the first time since the install. Seems to be a lot more responsive and engine pulls hard! I'm happy with the power it has. But- not happy with the idle yet. Seems to want to hang and wander back down to an idle.

I think I need to tinker with the throttle body butterfly adjustments a bit more...as the vid posted above shows. My IAC steps show 0 at idle. And it still wants to surge every one in a while. There's nothing I can find about on the FItech site or otherwise that will tell me where to initially set these butterfly's at - like on a carb that has a transfer slot. Thinking of just removing the throttle body and making sure all four blades are set equal and adjust from there....

robotic_junky

This is under Fuel Cut Off in Pro Tuning

Decel RPM Decay = When the throttle is closed, and the engine is returning to idle speeds, the Idle Closed loop will use Target RPM to control the speed during that period. The Target RPM will decay to the normal idle speed in a controlled manner. A smaller “Decel RPM Decay” value will be SLOWER.

Decel IAC Decay = When the throttle is closed, and the engine is returning to idle speeds, the “Decel Open IAC” steps will need to be removed in a manner that nearly matches the “Decel RPM Decay” of the Target RPM. This value is the fraction of a step that is decayed per 100 milliseconds (10 times per second).

In case you don't have it, here is the definitions.

http://fitechefi.com/virtualoffice_f...efinitions.pdf

I also heard IAC steps at idle should be around 1-10, base on other people's experience. I messed with mine today and it was around 11. I turned the idle screw down 1/4 of a turn and got down to 1 and 2. I backed it off by 1/8 of turn. Now, it's at 4 and 5 steps.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks robotic.

I know I've messed with the secondary butterfly adjustment as well as the one next to the throttle linkage.

I printed out all the definitions, but what I guess I'm having an issue with is that they don't tell you what is " self learning" and what you need to adjust....whether it be on the pad or on the throttle body. I'll look closer at what I have today. I know my IAC steps are zero, so I have some kind of adjusting to do.

I'm trying to dial this in so I can trust it to be reliable....its just not there yet.

EDIT: I went out and tinkered with it a bit more. After I first started the engine and let it warm up a bit, the IAC steps were bouncing between 0 and 2, but I managed to get my IAC steps to 4-5 by adjusting the screw on the secondary butterflies more closed. It only took about 1/4 turn towards closed to do it.

-I looked and looked under "Idle Control" on my pad, but I cannot find anything about Decel RPM Decay or Decel IAC Decay.

I only have the following options:
Decel Open IAC
Loop Rate Up
Loop Rate Down
IAC Relearn
IAC Reset

It does seem to idle better with the IAC steps at 4-5. I have my Idle AFR set at 13.50 - I try to lean it out any further and it begins to idle rougher and surge a bit. My idle vacuum is decent at 14 - 15". I can only assume it's going to idle a little on the rougher side due to the cam....

I think I'll go out and drive it a bit and let whatever is supposed to "learn" do it's thing and see if there's any changes.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Weel, took it out for a ride. Seemed to run well, but after about 15 minutes the idle started surging at stop lights. Also, it didn't like it when I down shifted approaching a stop sign at all. The rpm's dropped to nothing as soon as I stopped and it stalled.

I re-checked the IAC steps when I got back home and they were back down to 1-2. I readjusted them again...this time I adjusted it to 9-10. I'll see if that improves it.

robotic_junky

I edited my post. The menu was Fuel Cut Off in Pro Tuning.

Go to the Main Menu, go down to Display and go in it. In the list, it will say Pro Tuning and it will say HIDE. Hit the joystick to the right or touch Edit. Then it said say SHOW. Now, go back to Main Menu and on the list now has Pro Tuning. Click on it and go to Fuel Cut Off. Then Decal RPM Decay and Decal IAC Decay should be shown.

If it's not in that menu, then look through the other menus on Pro Tuning.

My truck would stall out when slowing down, especially doing it fast. I raised my Decal IAC to about 5. Loop Rate Up, I changed it from 21 to 25. Loop Rate Down was 11, I changed it to 10. That seems to solve, for now, my stalling when slowing down.

I don't have a supercharger, but I'm running a retro roller cam for a supercharged engine, Lunati 20120855. Mine is smaller than yours. Also I have 16" of vacuum at idle.

Ya, this is self tuning because you have to do it yourself and learn for yourself.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I chuckled at this....then realized it's not far from the truth!!

Thanks for the help Robotic! I'll look into what you posted and see how that works.

I need to get my idle to return to where I have it set...875 right now....not initially stay at 1500 when I let off the gas and then slowly wander it's way down....(although that seems a little better with the IAC adjustment) - but it'll still occasionally down below 875 and shoot back up. It's getting better, but still not right....I'll look into the adjustments you recommend and see if there's any improvement and report back!

robotic_junky

You can also check out this thread at chevelles.com

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-e...tings-etc.html

rel3rd also has another thread on there too, but it's a lot longer.

robotic_junky

I drove my truck this morning. It would flooder when shifting at half throttle. This probably has something to do with the DFCO. Almost died on me at a stop sign after I just drove 22.5 miles.

Later, I drove home went about 1 mile and everything seemed fine. I got up to 55 mph and cars in front of me slowed down. I let completely off the throttle went to 20:1, but stayed there even when I pushed on the throttle and had no response. I pulled over and it stalled out and died. It wouldn't restart. I have the FCC and I had 58 psi fuel pressure. I ended up unhooking my battery waited 30 seconds. Hooked it back up and started fine. Drove the rest of the way home fine.

I still have learning to do.

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

this sucks,my fitech efi was suppose to be shipped tomorrow. no summit is saying its backordered and may have to wait until july 15th. wtf. not cool, definitely not happy

robotic_junky

How long have you waited?

Seems like most have been waiting any where from 2 weeks or up to 2 months. It took 2 weeks for me to get the throttle body, but took 1 and 1/2 months to get the FCC (I use it on my 72 C10).

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

i ordered 5/4/16

robotic_junky

The owner of FiTech said this May 2 on Facebook.

"I would like to thank everyone for hanging in there while we build our production to meet demand. We have to say that it has been a thrill having such success with this product and we are increasing production by at least 20% weekly! Each system is fully dyno tested on an engine and we will not sacrifice quality for speed and supply.(You will smell the fuel when you open your box !!) We expect to be at full production within 4 weeks and are investing in all tooling and manpower to make sure that quality is never sacrificed to meet demand no matter what. Thank You for supporting our EFI and please know that your Fitech EFI is worth the wait!!
Nobody ever expected the success we are having with this product and we feel blessed to be part of this awesome wave!
Thanks,
Ken Farrell"

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

I saw that and I saw someone order from mid march and still haven't gotten it

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

well, called fitech they are saying 1-2 weeks most likely we"ll see

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

I was hoping FI Tech would really be plug and play.Seems like all the other crap after market junk EFI systems.A long learning curve,and it will never work in all driving situations.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

When I looked over the manual I found it to be quite lacking as well. This is very surprising considering how many software developers are out there now,and how fast these processors are.

Most modern aftermarket EFI works great now. In the 90s this wasn't true, but pretty much anything now is light years better than the OEM stuff.

-- Joe

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

The better after market systems are $2000 and up.The hook For FI Tech was the $900 price and sales pitch.

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

ugh going on 4 months wait now

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

If your smart you'll cancel your order.This system seems to be cheep Chinese crap.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

My Megasquirt was around $300 and has comparable features to the newer Holley stuff. This is just ECU.



-- Joe