abadv8

Really? Are you envisioning someone uneducated and inarticulate here? Is there a secondary, tertiary, or even ancillary party that I am unaware of? Or, is this genuinely directed at me?


Bruce, kudos to you. I sincerely hope that this open line of communication will provide some solace for all involved.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The only reason I quoted you is get a chuckle for the "fixed it" comment.
Its a general statement about todays consumers and in no way directed at you.

No need to use big words on this forum, it takes some people to long to look them all up.

abadv8

Well, to clarify my "new American way" statement; it seems to be completely and totally acceptable to accept whatever load of crap the bourgeois dole out without question. In no way was that a direct reference to the situation at hand. The disparity between the bourgeois and proletariat here seems much less significant than in the grand scheme of things. And that upsetting of the status quo is definitely a good thing. To speak out is akin to blasphemy. But, do you see where that gets us? People harbor resentment, and the hard feelings fester. It’s OK to speak your mind, as long as there is some substance to accompany what you have to say. In the case at hand, it has been an opportunity to clear the air.

I’m still in favor of getting the best possible value for my dollar though…

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i had a issue with them a little over a year ago with black gta seats.... was near completion of my black interior swap and the only thing missing were those hard to find black cloth gta seats.. I searched for months with no luck. considering that they didnt make a lot of black gta seats compared to other colors, apparently he had a set of two front black cloth gta seats.. and he told me they worked great and were complete and working....

when I got them the air bladders and the lines leading up to them were all cracked and didnt hold air and the button on the side of the seat that actually control the adjustments were missing and the side plastic pieces were missing as well... I was pissed...I had to go on ebay and buy some of the missing pieces... I still don't have any electric function in the seats and just deciding to take all the bladders and electronics out the seat.... I would have NEVER bought them knowing this but I couldn't return them because I had already sold my tan gta seats that were perfect and the fact black gta cloth seats are very hard to come by.. needless to say the actual seat themselves look great but didnt function worth a damn....

i
very misleading and knowing this I probably will not do business with them... about the ONLY I will get from them now is their "new "5 speed shift plate since no else has them and they are very hard to find used in mint condition....

alan91z28

i have done a lot of business with Bruce on my projects and i can say the whole team at Hawks has always been very helpful and responsive to me

he has had custom seat covers made for me, finding a donor camaro with a great back-half and getting the car cut in two and getting it shipped to me so i could completely rebuild my first camaro i found rusted out, etc, etc, etc

while i have never personally met him or any of his staff due to the distance between us at this point, i have full confidence in sending an email or giving him a call on what i need and they work through it so i can get my projects done

has everything always been perfect, of course not as we are all humans and make mistakes including myself, but in my experience Bruce has always made sure things worked out fairly and i honestly value his advice and service he has provided to me and will continue to do so

in this present case, there is no question that the way this started was due to a poor call in his case and i am sure he regrets this lapse of judgement in how this went down... he has owned up to it, is working it out with Tick, and offering anyone affected full assurance that they will be backed if there is an issue with what he has supplied...

at some point you either can accept someone's sincere apology or you don't and if the person is making a sincere attempt at ammends personally i believe we should accept it... no question that at some point each of us will need this type of humble forgiveness, if you don't think so you are fooling yourself

anyways that is my .02 cents and i believe we should let Bruce and Tick come to ammends and move on with what we all desire on this board which is helping each other build / maintain great third gens and deal with each other in an open, fair, and respectful manner including learning from our mistakes

jraider66

Amen to that.

Richboll

The door has been opened. Time for anyone with a real complaint to try to get it resolved. If he is sincere, you can't ask for a better deal than this.
Post it here. Let us know how it worked out for you.

oddscrounger

I find it funny how quick some of you are to berate a man who operates one of the only companies dedicated to the cars we love. And he has since apologized and obviously any problems you people might have with this part will be covered by him or Tick.

Have you ever gotten "free shipping" from another vendor? Or from any company in life? Yea... not like the cost of shipping isn't tied into the cost of goods or anything...

Those of you who are so quick to jump on the "no more business from me" bandwagon are probably the same whose eyes light up when they see "free shipping" on autozone.com.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Did you contact them at the time with the concerns of the item? Did they offer anything?

FlamehedCFH

Glad to see Bruce stepping up. I never had a problem with parts I bought from him. I just bought my second third gen Camaro from a guy that works with Bruce. I love having a vendor in my backyard (30 miles from me). You will be seeing me soon, Bruce. You can thank Marvin for that.

Guest

I hate ticks. Nasty little ***** that think they have the right to suck on my blood, arrogant bastards. I light them on fire when I find them. Makes me hesitant to like Tick products...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Do tell........

TxTtopZ

Wow, just found this and read all of it. It's a damn shame. As for the possibility of being a future customer of Hawks..... I can tell you that finding parts for these cars is not always easy. I hear "A dime a dozen" being said here and there and I don't know where the hell some of you get that from??? 9 TIMES OUT OF 10, the thirdgens I see around are in the hands of less than stellar owners who clearly don't have the money or the skills to give the car its life back. Parts are usually fried, cracked, or fried in crack....(Seriously, some people have no taste).

What ended up happening is what I want to know? This thread died but did anyone get some wrongs righted? What happened to the business? Anything change for the better? I know some of you wont deal with them, but being human more than most, I can still see someone bouncing back from something like this to be a good supplier. God knows we could use a worthy specialized company!

oddscrounger

I still buy from them. Seems like he admitted to his wrongdoing and I don't think it's a widespread issue to across the board with everything on their site. Just was a part he semi-remanufactured himself... and claimed it was a Ticks product, which was wrong. However, they are a specialist shop and I know they remanufacture/refurbish used parts and sell them, which is nice with it being hard to find parts for 3rd gens. I'll continue to buy.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I always had good luck with hawks thirdgen. I just ordered a used CFI fan shroud from them last week

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i still think their pricing is out of whack, and their shipping is even worse.

90camaro355rs

First off everyone that bought from Bruce has been wronged, where does the warranty come in, oh wait Tick will NOT warranty a part that isn't there's. That is where people have been wronged.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

This is off topic. But I just wanted to say that you are so right! I've worked in some nice restoration shops here in DFW; so there are some great looking cars coming out of Texas. but almost all the 3rd gens I see here in DFW are ragged beyond belief! Parts cars on graigslist are almost useless. Good luck finding good used interior pieces. Most of the cars I see on CL have basically next to no reusable parts. Its just sad.

I think the reason why there are so many ragged 3rd gens here is because most of the cars sold here came from the Van nuys plant in California. Almost all of those cars got poor water paint jobs. So when the paint jobs went south the original owners sold the cars off for cheap. Then the secondary/ or third/fourth owners ragged the cars to pieces. Eventually there is only going to be a few nice 3rd gens left here. Of course the donk craze here in DFW doesn't help either lol...

But hey; at least some of us are restoring our cars.

TxTtopZ

Yeah, it's about the same down here in Austin. The car I have has the usual paint issues (see pic below) and no rust (thank God) and it's from Billings, Montana! Made it's way down here over 2 owners, through Washington, DC. Possibly made at the same plant no doubt, but it seems those cars probably went all over. I can check the vin and see what the deal is. As far as stating your post was off topic, I think it's spot on. Donk's are a plague on our public roads and if there were more thirdgens around thanks to good parts vendors, we would have something to offset the hideousness of this tragedy.


Either way, we need a reputable parts vendor that has access to items. This board KNOWS it. Which is partially what makes the outrage in this thread so bad. Especially when I have to do a good job at work to buy, so you damn well better do a good job at work to sell! I don't see how it could work any other way. Hawks already has years experience in the business, and to turn things around wouldn't take much considering his competition is pretty thin. (which may be the issue)... Not saying anything bad about thirdgen ranch or TDS, but its pretty slim as it is. When I look for resto parts, I see a TON for classics and MAYBE 1 for the IROC.

Anyway, you other people...I didn't post up so you could start picking an old scab... Whats been said is already said for better or worse. But it's a false statement to say these cars are plentiful and cheap. I HARDLY EVER FIND nice thirdgens around in my daily grind. And when I do, I usually want to chat with the owner and look at it! I've looked at 1 NICE IROC in the past year without going to a show or something. How many have you seen?

The moral of the story is... Get your **** together Hawks! Speaking of, I believe you have some work to do. Please find me a beechwood leather drivers seat with the cloth inserts - full power, matching to the original other seats (in good shape). You sell, I buy. They look like this.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I feel your pain man. 3rd gens are in the same place 2nd gens were about 15 years ago. and that's not a good thing. The more restorations that come around the more respect 3rd gens will get; and subsequently the more aftermarket quality parts we will be able to have access to and purchase.
Thats exactly what happened with the second gens. And it is what will eventually happen with the 3rd gens. We just need to get some owners that are willing to spend money on their cars. and not just let them fall apart like so many have.

I could not have said it better my self.

btw your car from the side looks pretty straight. With a proper paint job it will look really good in that color red.

I already have 2 SATA paint guns and a decent 80 gallon compressor. I'm hoping in the next 6 months to get the iroc-z repainted. I just need a few more supplies and my body man miracle worker eddie will be able to start on the body work. It just has a few minor door dings that need to be corrected.

Good luck with your build.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

you need to hang out with NTTGA. we have some project cars sure, but at the last meeting we had three low mileage cars that could only be described as "showroom fresh" One still had its original Goodyear tires on it

https://www.facebook.com/groups/133019903522213/

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Holy Crap I never even knew there was a DFW based 3rd gen website. Thanks for the link!

58mark

iTrader: (3)

awesome, we have monthly meetings, and of course the annual Third Gen Roundup.

Hope you can join us sometime!

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

For sure! I'm going to go make an account on NTTGA.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

the website is very dead. We do almost everything through facebook now, but if you're not on facebook, send me an email address and we sent out reminders of upcoming events

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

Thirdgen ranch was mentioned in a earlier post, If you're talking about Denny in Crete; I recently bought something off Ebay from him. It took 3 weeks for me to pick it up from him and that's because I constantly callled him and left messages asking when it would be good time to pick up parts. NO CALL BACK AT ALL. So that's what prompted me to drive over an hour to go retrieve my part. To big to ship or I would have just shipped it. I've heard about him from other people but still for the parts he offered and he was in same state I took the chance.
I got there knocked on his door and he answered, surprised. I told him who I was and what I had purchased on Ebay form him. The part I bought off ebay had rust on it (not mentioned in Ebay listing) so I suggested if he had another If I could choose from one of those. He agreed. I luckily found a better one that was laying in his front yard (No fence) with other parts scattered about. I bought two more pieces he had new, not a great deal or anything; because he had no change. I loaded parts and talked for a few with him. I left.
Contacted him weeks later through Ebay because again he didnt answer his cell, even while I was there it rang a few times and he didn't answer, but anyways I contacted him about same part I had bought, he wanted more???
So I asked why and he stated because it included a part that he sells for $100. Which I replied so did the other one you sold me???
Thirdgen ranch is not a business, although he would like to be he is not. He strips third gens and other cars and keeps (dirty) rusty parts all about his property and in house, which he quickly closed the door to while I was there.
Another thing is the 3RD GEN fest he has...it's a barbecue on his property where the parts are scattered...Not a fest
I will no longer buy parts from him...No matter how cheap they are

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I have read this whole thread and nowhere do I see a resolution to this. It's been 9 months since Bruce said he was close to one, what happened?

'NUFF SAID! It's not like you had any choice but to own up to it. You don't keep taking orders that are for a certain product that you know you don't actually sell for a year or more and fill them with your own product on "accident", while "accidentally" sending another businesses paperwork with it. Whether it be the same exact item or not (only the master is), this is just bad business. The only thing I think Bruce is truly sorry for is the fact it came to light and has gotten so much attention.
I kept seeing here the defense that other people repackage another companies product and claim it to be theirs. That is comparing apples and oranges. They almost always are permitted to do so, and ultimately, one of the two companies would honor any expressed warranty without being called out in this way before it happens.
I am not one of the Hawks bashers, I've seen negative threads time and time again about Hawks, and have come to their defense more than once. I have even sent PM's warning them about a thread so they can respond. Seeing this makes me question whether I was being the devils advocate. That being said, I have bought a few items from them with zero problems. Mostly small stuff because of the ridiculous pricing on anything major. I am so glad I am done (for now) with my project and don't have to worry about what I am getting from whom. My build has been a nightmare of overpriced and questionable parts from day one.

visitor

:yawn:

Guest

I bought one of Hawks Third Generation's Sunoco fiberglass hoods (supposedly made in Easley, SC) from Bruce Hawkins himself. I drove my Jeep and trailer a long way to pick it up. Later, I took my 1986 Camaro and the Sunoco hood to a restoration shop in Texas for installation and paint. Well, that Sunoco hood is a piece of **** that doesn't fit worth a damn. I have pictures to prove it. The hood's dimension's were nowhere close (way too small/narrow) to those of an original GM steel hood. My car is pristine and has never had any front end damage whatsover. My original GM steel hood fit great and had very consistent, close gaps all the way around. I sent the pictures to Bruce and called him to tell him about all this. He told me to adjust my front fenders to accommodate the Sunoco hood and close up the huge gaps. That is ridiculous! My fenders are where they are supposed to be as dictated by the dimensions of the original GM steel hood. Even if there were enough fender adjustment to close the huge gaps between the Sunoco hood and the fenders, it would have deformed (squeezed/mashed in) my front facia. Simply put, an aftermarket fiberglass hood should fit (or be able to be made to fit by trimming down) the car; the car shouldn’t have to be made to fit the hood. That is “*** backwards.” Also, when installed, the rear of the Sunoco hood would not sit down flush with the fenders. It sat up way too tall at the hinge bolting area. There is no adjustment possible anywhere in that area (either on the hood or on the hinges). In short, to make that Sunoco hood work on my (or any undamaged) car, one would have to essentially re-engineer it and spend mega hours doing fiberglass work to widen it, etc. By the time all was said and done, one would have thousands of dollars in that fiberglass hood. (It would be better to commission someone to make a hood completely from scratch—which is what I ended up doing.) After much persuading, Bruce finally told me that he would refund the cost of the hood and the cost to ship it back to him. I received a check for the hood, but never received the $109.62 shipping that he promised me. (A man that doesn’t keep his word is a cockroach.) He later sent me a picture of another Sunoco hood installed (and painted) on another car and tried to pass it off as the hood that I returned to him. No Bruce, I wasn’t born yesterday. As it stands now, I am out the cost of shipping and the cost (in labor hours) of the staff at the restoration shop trying in vain to fit that junky Sunoco hood on my car. By Bruce’s own admission (after having viewed its web site), the restoration shop that I used is one of the best in the country. You can contact Bruce Hawkins at brucehawkins@hawksthirdgenparts.com. Good luck. My advice to you is this: Don’t expect Bruce to care about customer service, part quality, or keeping his word. As for me, I plan to collect my refund in person.

hawksthirdgen

Snappy,
I know exactly who you are and that is a pretty childish comment to make regarding anyone and their family !! I will see to it that the moderators take care of you posts its a shame that a coward like you always hide behind the keyboard!!

(SO everyone knows Snappy could not get a hood to fit as he wanted it to bolt on no adjustments period, he got ugly and angry , I had the hood installed and painted on a shop car , sent pics and he was furious and insisted it was not the same hood which it was and has been out to trash ever since!! people LIKE HIM ARE NOT NEEDED IN THE HOBBY!!)

I PROMISE you, you are nowhere near enough man to say the above comment in person !!
I remember speaking with you on the phone when you were a customer and you made a snide comment about BJ not knowing she was my wife and how I made you feel like a FOOL as you had stuck your foot in your mouth. IT is understandable how people like you don't have anyone because of how you treat people not to mention women in general! You are a joke sir
On a separate note would love for you to come to the shop again with your mouth and see how it is received, you would be on your knees

SINCERELY , BRUCE HAWKINS

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

well Bruce, I have to admit, i was extremely disappointed when i heard about the SSW fiasco, then again with the Tick Fiasco

but it seems since then, at least i have noticed, you have done as much as you can to make sure your customers stay happy and are pretty quick at answering to any posts about Hawks here on TGO

I still cant say I fully agree with every price i see on your site(i do like the LS/tranny combo's you have, seems like a fair price)

with all that said, if you ever have anyone tell you their Sunnoco hood is junk, i will gladly us my RS as a test mule and make it fit and look good!

Have a good day Bruce, between you and thirdgen ranch, i hope to see many new or reproduced products and support come out for our cars!

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
Thanks for the response , its not really about me or the business as far as my response above it is about how people can pop off at the mouth behind the computer and it seems acceptable but there is alot of that now days!
As far as my fiascoes I respect where you come from and understand your view point although most general public does not know the complete truth and alot could not accept it if it were publicized so I do not bother .
I do appreciate the fact that you notice we ( my staff and myslef ) work VERY hard to take care of our customers and continue to do so daily. I hope I have the opportunity to help you again in the future , please never hesitate to call or email if you need something!.
Thanks,Bruce
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

Snappy, honestly, if you're upset with Bruce, that's one thing.
But don't come in here running your mouth about his wife, making yourself look like a fool.
GTFO of here with that ****.
That being said, (I think I may have mentioned this previously), I have no problem ordering from Hawks, and I'm from Canada where the shipping is even crazier for me. Haven't been disappointed yet, and I've made many purchases.
I don't agree with some of the 'ethical' decisions Bruce has made (this thread specifically), but he has apologised and seems to be making a amends.

PS, Bruce, when are you going to start making reproduction snorkels/ducts for the L69 cars?
I just lost a bid on a NOS set on ebay......they went for $600 plus shipping!! Crazy!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-83-84-85-86-HO-dual-snorkle-air-cleaner-GM-duct-set-Camaro-Z28-Trans-Am-RARE/201109306122?_trksid=p3984.c100019.m2044&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D22945%26meid%3D8035424908296959526%26pid%3D100019%26prg%3D9893%26rkt%3D4%26

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
Thanks !!
I would love to look into the hoses but need a NICE set to start with If I can get a nice used set I would replace with a NEW repo set when finished!

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

I do like my hawks ls balancer installer tool. works like its supposed to.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

LOL I just noticed Snappy posted the EXACT same post over four years ago....
He literally logged back in after 4 years to post this again?
Someone needs to move on......

Rednecht

iTrader: (1)

I'm new here so I'm staying out of this cat fight. I will just sit back eat some popcorn and watch as it all unfolds. watch and learn that is..........Another Episode of As The Stomach Churns.....Last week as you will recall Tommy was mad a mikey because mikey took out too much sand from the sand box. but to get even, Tommy pooped in the sand box and well stay tuned for more........Sorry guys I know this is serious business here and someone is cutting into someone elses primary take home pay. So I'd be ticked off as well. And I hope it all turns out to be just an honest mistake and all gets settled without anyone going postal.....Just my 2 cents.

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Paid close to that for my NOS Spare Tire Cover Panel (Black) in the original GM Box


Bought from Hawk's previously and was satisfied...Bruce, if you can reduce the shipping charges to Canada that would be great. BTW, thanks for the Keychain.

If I'm not happy with the purchase quality or customer service, I can take my business elsewhere....simple as that.

......currently saving up for my 5" Hawk's rear spoiler.

upur86maro

I am just getting back on TGO, I am so angry... just bought a hawks clutch master cylinder kit, with everything it was roughly $320, which I've got no problem spending, in fact I would have happily spent double that if I knew what I was getting/ getting into...


the "bolt-on" kit is far from advertised. I THOUROGHLY asked the salespeople and the technician before purchasing, information regarding ease of installation. As expected, I was reassured that it would only take an hour and a half to install...


right... no anything but. the fitment of the clutch master cylinder, the line, and information included is hardly adequate to say the least. BOTH of the included bracket bolts are 1/2" short (honestly studs would have been a much smarter way, and I will be going about it that way). I am going to be relieving the fender well on the drivers side to clearance for the unnecessarily long 90degree AN fitting. I could probably play around with the AN fittings I have, but would rather keep the AN fitting on the end of the knockoff master cylinder, as I don't care to go into finding an angled -3 AN swivel. the icing on the cake is the ABSURDLY long stainless braided line... about 18" too long. I don't know who came up with this kit, makes me wonder if it was even designed for 1982-1992 F-Bodies...


I called them today. got the "real" story on the kit. "sometimes we have to move the brake booster" and "sometimes we have to reshape the wheel well" yeah, this is anything but an "hour and a half" install. I will NOT recommend HAWKS THIRD GENERATION to ANYONE...


here is the link to the knockoff kit that I was conned into buying... I should have bought the American Powertrain Kit, as they are honest enough to admit that my car will need some modification to make their kit fit.


DO NOT PURCHASE!!!


http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/84...-cylinder-kit/

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Guess I missed the part where you called Hawks and asked for a refund .....

Not sure what this thread has to do with your install.....have you considered switching to a 700R4...less trouble.

hawksthirdgen

Hi,

Normally I dont have a chance to get on here and generally respond to every post although I did want to make a quick response to this comment , Customer above was given some technical support by one of our associates here yesterday as to the POSSIBLE ABOVE modification he MAY have to do to get his master cylinder in the car . The customer was originally told there should be no modifications and should be a direct bolt in item. I spoke with the associate here and he explained that the customer seemed fine and perfectly happy with the ideas he gave him to look into and was told if he had ANY more questions or problems do not hesitate to call us back . When I read the thread this morning the first thing I did was find the customer in our system and call him to see if there was something I needed to do for him as this is not a knock off part and is as described and I wanted to make sure we followed up with him as to read the comment pretty much make the company look like a liar and a that we did not care about what we sold him and that is FAR FROM THE TRUTH .
Once I got him on the phone he explained to me that the associate that he spoke with took really good care of him and that he is going to finish the install and move forward . When I questioned his post his response was that was how he felt and that our Tilton master cylinder was a cheap looking part and that he had read on here where we don't even get them from Tilton, Further more he was not going to lie to anyone which I explained I was not asking for that I wanted to take care of him and keep him as a customer and even offered a FULL REFUND , which was declined .
I have personally installed over 25 of these in third gens alone and 95% fit perfect and go in in about 45 minutes I have had a few that have required slight modification such as drilling the holes slightly larger or dimpling the frame rail slightly in one case . These are 20-30 yr old cars and all are slightly different in some ways in the chassis (ask any of our advertising suspension manufactures hence slots in all the mounting holes), our original research vehicle had 35K original miles on it, should I have gotten the oldest highest mileage warped up car to do our original install on?? We simply try to make the best product give the best customer service we possible can and then deal with a customer in no way shape or form can I make happy when doing so. I fully understand if he was not happy send it back freight paid by us for a FULL REFUND but that was declined , I was also informed that when the Tilton cylinder fails he will go on the boards a boast about how crappy it was too. I mean come on could some of us not stand to be a little more adult about a situation?

Sincerely,
Bruce Hawkins
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com

91ls1t56

I am a Hawks basher, that's why I found this thread interesting. I read the whole thing and do know it is pretty old. I had hydraulic issues and looked into the Tick upgrade. A friend of mine with some dirt tracking experience recomended Tilton products. After compairing the Tick piece to the Tilton piece I decided that I will not be forking over an extra $200+ for a piece of aluminum cut on an angle. I made my bracket, sourced some linkage pieces and saved a good amount of money. I do fully understand getting upset over being missled. I also look at this thread and see people that are unhappy because of who they overpaid for a piece of aluminum. Everybody got the Tilton peice which what is they wanted. Like I started out with I am unhappy with Hawks over other items. I reluctantly had to deal with them recently. Things went south right away, BUT in the end they called me back and discussed the issue. The parts I wanted were not the easiest to come by and Hawks did not have them but listed them. The guy who called me back told me why the parts were hard to get, said he updated the listing and then gave me a few recommendations as to where I might find what I wanted. He did me a real solid, I got what I wanted and they didn't make a penny. I have to say this time Hawks really came through for me. They did what they could to get me what I needed and now I am a little less hesitant to call them in the future.

bryan623

I bought one of those hoods off Hawks. Was a little discouraged at first because it did not fit but after doing some adjustments I got it to a point where I like how it looked. I am happy with it and I am fine getting more stuff from Hawks again.

upur86maro

Bruce Bruce Bruce. I've replied in a different thread. And I'll just copy and past my response here... You're exactly right my experience was great with Steven (as I recall his name) because at that point I had no viable options. He felt bad I was CONNED and LIED to buying this part. My car is not some old clapped out pile, in fact my car has seen a surface plate a number of times all under "curiosity based" circumstances. I'LL NEVER recommend your business, which is sad because I liked talking with Steven.

Copied from another thread I posted: "over the past week I've started to jump over to the idea, as a guy who is pretty heavily involved in short track racing I see lots of "copied" parts. Parts evolve so fast there's almost no reason to patent. I purchased the kit over the phone and not once was it mentioned that there was even the slightest chance of there being a need for modification. After looking into it, there wasn't much of a difference between their product and the american powertrain kit. I likely would have had to spend the same amount of time for both. Bruce himself was so kind to call me the following morning after my previous post asking me to remove it. He was so generous as to refund me my money and pay for it to be shipped back, but i recall reading a thread on a sonoco hood that he sold (Fiberglass isn't my thing anyway so I'll just drop it). I felt the need to do my duty and I'll be as unbiased in my stress test regarding the product as I can be. I cannot confirm the origin of the tilton MC, but neither can tilton.

It would be a far stretch to POSITIVELY confirm that the cylinder is a copy, even if it is, the likelihood of failure, well let's just call it a shot in the dark, no one's word will be valid here. Aside from resizing the wheel well and completely removing the brake booster (to install the mc) I'd recommend that everyone considering upgrading to this kit or any similar kit do the same as I did. first off, reshaping the wheel well was easy enough, using a large ball peen hammer I moved a fairly significant portion of the wheel well inward, then used mr. Blue tip to heat the double walled seam up and make just enough room for the end of the mc. There was a good amount of time spent making sure the mc would fit with enough room to remove should any particular part fail. (Always remember the bathtub rule for any potential part failure). Now the end of the mc has a straight AN fitting, I'm going to go forth and use the straight fitting and connect the 90degree end to it. Bruce if you read this I highly recommend a swivel fitting (maybe a 135degree) on the mc, as it would do wonders for clearance with the frame rail. (I have roughly 1/16" between the frame rail and the apex of the 90degree fitting). I hope that the frame does not flex, I KNOW that if I get in a fender bender I will have wished I changed out the fitting on the end of the master cylinder for some swivel fitting.

Bruce seems like any good businessman, he wants his business to succeed, at any cost. After losing my future business I hope he can move on and adapt from this mistake. Honesty is key. He "honestly" says he can have a technician install this in 45-90min. It's with great displeasure that I have to inform everyone here that it took me 22.5 man hours to do the entire job from start to finish (between myself and a friend). I am sure someone could do this in a shorter amount of time, but I am EXTREMELY particular and take every precaution necessary to make this swap as smooth and as easy as possible. If he comments, I am sure he's going to say I took way too long. That's just fine, I know I took way too long with it. Another shot in the dark, I've owned 3 third generation Camaros, none of which had ANY visible differences in this area (specifically surrounding the clutch master cylinder). Bruce's second claim was these cars were different from 1982-92. I haven't worked on the number of cars he's had his hands on, and I will have to take his word for it. But in my "dabbling" in third gens, I haven't seen a difference in firewall/wheel well fit and finish.

Bruce can't talk me into removing my post, but I will give the employees of Hawks this much. They deserve praise, maybe not for the claims made before the purchase but for the actions of one employee... After opening the package and removing the broken parts from the car, I quickly realized this would be no quick task (installing the mc kit). Upon realizing this I called Hawks and asked to speak with a technician. I talked with Steven (if I recall correctly) he was the first employee of Bruce's to give me a straight answer regarding the install of this clutch master cylinder. He said there was a chance I'd have to resize the wheel well and warned me about the brake booster being in the way. Steven deserves applause, he clearly felt bad I was promised ease of install, and did not want to put me at further strife. He identified my concerns, and addressed them without positively confirming my biggest fears. It's hard to fix someone's issues over the phone. Unlike Bruce, Steven did not hang up on me."
The post can be seen on https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/aftermarket-product-review/684011-interesting-development-clutch-master.html#post6011196

Bruce just swallow your pride and remember your experience with me. As unpleasant as our phone conversation may have been, I will repeat what I said on the phone, "you can't win back everyone, you certainly won't win my future business back, but you can learn from this and adapt to make sure no future customer feels the same way I did" proving a customer wrong, denying what their experience has been with a specific product, is not anyway you win them back. I will make sure to post the results regarding the durability of your product, and rest assured I will not be using your "lifetime warranty" on this product.

As a business owner myself (I own a small service business) I am BRUTALLY honest, I know what I can and cannot do, I offer the truth, whether it's what my customers want to hear or not. I learned a LONG time ago that you can't sell ice to an Eskimo, because if you do, you'll never sell ice again.

Mr. Hawkins was so kind to ask me what would I do if I was in his shoes, as I can relate to owning a business... Well, Mr. Hawkins, I'd take EVERY opportunity to learn from your mistakes, don't be so narcissistic and think you didn't make any mistakes. They're evident. At the least you could take my criticism of the fittings and lines. And run with it!

"I'd wish you good luck, but you wouldn't know what to do with it"-Blake (played by Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross) it's a great movie about business ethics, I'd highly recommend it specifically for you...

A side note to all who read this. The practices of most small business owners, don't typically change. Despite how employees interact with clientele, employees are a reflection on the business owner. If you're lucky enough you may get to talk with the owner and you can make your own conclusion regarding the ethics and business practices of said business owner.

I was so lucky, and anticipate future calls regarding my posts about the experience with this specific part.

upur86maro

Also, have some humility, if you want to act like an adult, try listening like one. By asking me to act like an "adult" you are insinuating that I am not acting like one. This is what adults do. An immature version of myself would have sent your parts back (still not asking for a refund) covered in horse crap. Because that's exactly how I feel about the entire situation. I hope you sell your entire inventory of those kits. And everyone has the same great experience I had!

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
Thank you sir adult response showed in this comment for sure

96BlownSSragtop

iTrader: (5)

...seriously can't believe this pointless biotch fest is still going on....

DonW

Moderator, Could you please lock this thread, delete it, and throw it out of your third gen doing 90 down the interstate? Hawks made a bad call. Ive made plenty in my line of work just as EVERYONE has. Im glad my mistakes dont get published for the world to see and have to deal with 3 YEARS after I had apologized multiple times. Hawks has dealt with this long enough, and has been a great source for the parts we need. This thread is childish and shouldnt be on TGO any longer IMHO
Thanks,
Don

96BlownSSragtop

iTrader: (5)

jchaussee

Ya except it seems like hawks is still doing shady shiit. Unless the last few exchanges are old.