BWilcox

Yes, it will be interesting to feel how it performs on the street.

Never driven a big small block or big block car.

If was cool hearing the motor run on the dyno.

The biggest lessons for the whole project are building the Intake and Exhaust to support this motor. The 3rd gen engine compartment is fairly small.

Best Regards,

Bruce

sheikss

You guys mind posting pictures of your setups? I am mainly wondering about your vacuum line and the throttle cable routing.

cuisinartvette

Always the option of a converted LT1 intake

Just had one flowed 2 days ago I finished up went 355 cfm on the "bad" cyls
More than enough.(and more in it dont see the point without a larger plenum though). Shame theres no lid to take off. 1205Felpro

Will be up for grabs in a week or so

The plenums arent as large as the miniram but should easily support 500ish hp if not more . Just another option

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

The Mini Ram has fuel reversion problems in the back cylinders. That is why the spark plugs can be loaded with carbon in the back cylinders.My tunner had put a flexable camera in the intake and actually saw the fuel pool in the back of the intake.A single plain intake is the best for fuel distrbution and power.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Interesting I never heard that. I know Jim Barth who built my motor swapped to a single plain from a miniram to test on a 421 and lost 3mph. Swapped the miniram back and gained back the mph.

BWilcox

Hi IROCZ1989,

How do your plugs look with the Miniram on your 421?

Given my motor, the plugs looked good after the 4+ hour engine dyno session. Roughly 45 minutes of this session was at idle.

So,,,

1.
Either my motor did not run long enough to carbon up the plugs.

2.
The package combination (CAM, Heads, Intake, Exhaust) may be a factor.

I am close to completing the project. Hoping to start (in car) the engine this weekend.

I will look at the plugs after 500 miles of operation.

Best Regards,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Im still waiting on my miniram from porter. But I wouldnt worry. Jims ran these for years. Never an issue. Cam has alot to do with it. You can do a hard dyno run and read the plugs right away. Think about it. How many tens of thousands of times did your cylinders fire for those 4 hours? If it didnt carbon them up by now, they wont ever. Someone picked the wrong cam. Thats all.

sheikss

I need to see some pics of your guys throttle cable bracket. Mine has my cables in a huge bind. I bent it at an angle hoping that would help and it got me no where. When I hook the trans cable up I can't open the throttle all the way up. The whole bracket needs to be moved forward to fix that. So far this miniram has been a huge disappointment. I had to spend several hours on this thing with cutters and sand rolls. Now this bs, really expected more/better quality.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Is this a new mini ram or a older version?
You will need to adjust the TV cable for the new bracket.
Yes the cables are set at a lil different angle than the factory had them because its not a factory intake.

sheikss

Brand new intake.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Post up a pic of yours

sheikss

Forgot to snap a pic today while I was doing other stuff. Buddy of mine ran a miniram so i am gonna have him take a look at it.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Here's a pic

92RSZ

iTrader: (6)

For anyone who's never seen the miniram air distribution issue, here are what the plugs look like every time I pull them.

sheikss

My bracket is different. All the cables are on the same bracket.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Post up a picture

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Sequential or bank fired?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

If you look close, you will see that I'm using to brackets. The other cable is for the cruise control going through the black bracket. I'm using one of the three holes. My car is a 5 speed car. I drill new holes in the black bracket to move the bracket forward.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

You shouldn't have to do that. On the cruise control side you can adjust the length of the cable by moving the cable to a different hole.
I'm thinking the OP is missing his throttle cable bracket.
IIRC, there are 3 openings in the lower bracket but only the top 2 are used. I cut off the bottom hole for more wire harness room. Or was that another car I did it to? (getting old sucks)
Not a very good pic but I have all the stuff hooked up, throttle, trans TV and cruise control cables in the 2 brackets. Didn't have to mod the bracket at all

92RSZ

iTrader: (6)

Batch fired. It's a stock 91 730 tpi ecm

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I modded the bracket before I ended up buying the throttle bracket on top on the fuel rail.

sheikss

Yep, I am missing the throttle cable bracket. I only have the black 3 hole bracket.

BWilcox

Hi 92RSZ,

My plugs from the Engine Dyno session look nothing like yours.

The engine is now running in my car.

The car seems to drive "ok" with the dyno tune. However, it is running a little rich according to the dual WBO2.

After I get it tuned, I will take some pictures of the plugs.

Best Regards,

Bruce

ULTM8Z

That intake track is way too small a diameter for the length. I had something similarly sized and then swapped out to a 4" diamter tube and really noticed the difference at upper mid range to top end. Understood you have a MAF, but a short distance of neck down will be much better than a long tube of small diameter

ULTM8Z

For folks who are a little more ambitious about solving the idle air distribution problems on the Miniram...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ram-split.html

The only difference now is I have the intake hose for the IAC manifold plumbed into the PCV valve. Figure it's essentially another vacuum port... I was battling a sucking noise issue in the link above, but this set up now is EXTREMELY quiet... don't even know it's there.

TxTtopZ

Im a little taken by the fact you had to go through all that for a good idle??
It seems to me (and I have virtually NO experience with TPIS MR intakes) that they would have taken care of this issue during development. Yet there are I think 3 or 4 of you claiming the same issue??

This is almost enough to put me off on the intake. Spending 1200 bucks just so I have to iron out more issues just to idle seems excessive.

Out of curiosity, how many others claim idle issues or spark plug issues?

Bruce did you get your car tuned yet?

BWilcox

I am still working on the tune. The dyno tune (narrow operation range) did not translate well to the car.

That being said, the car drives fine from idle through part throttle. I do run in Closed Loop.

The plugs are darker than I would like due to the rich open loop mixture. However, I do not see the reported trend that the rear cylinders (5,6,7,8) run richer than the front cylinders. Maybe I will detect more differences when the Injector Constant, VE Tables, and Spark Advance are more optimal?

Unfortunately, opinions are based on people. Each person is different. What bothers one person may not bother someone else.

There is always a compromise in design.

My car is not a daily driver. My tolerance level for the potential Miniram issues is fairly high.

I think ULTM8Z (Mike) made the modifications in an attempt to perfect the MiniRam. Not fix a critical problem.

Tuning can be addictive. Improvement is great. The hard part is to define the stopping point. When is the tune good enough?

The Cam and the associated valve events may also impact idle mixture distribution.

I would consider talking to Jim or Clay at TPIS and discuss these concerns. Ask them what "generic" combinations work well. Definitely discuss the Cam.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Bruce

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I never had a problem with the idle. You can solve all the problems with just a good tune. If you just put the Miniram on with little to no tune, it will be rich. This is one major reason you don't have much bottom mid-range torque. It's too rich. I've seen the difference on the Dyno. You have to do a lot of leaning on the bottom because of the short runners. When you hit the throttle, it dumps too much gas. The engine has to get rid of it at higher RPMs. That when you feel the power kick in. And this was going from a Super Ram to a Miniram. So be patient and get the proper tune and stop complaining. ITS ALL IN THE TUNE!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I always knew it was hurting me but hadn't had time to build something proper at that the time the pic was taken.. I have pictures posted elsewhere on here with my 4" aluminum intake and LS3 maf conversion under construction sooo it shouldn't be a problem anymore.. ;-)

TxTtopZ

Vincent, the member who made the external idle control manifold and drilled the intake said the blms were at 128 and from his other posts it seems he has the tuning concept down fairly well... Yes, I know, it could be the tune. Or a faulty gasket, or possible a faulty component somewhere thats borderline failing. It could be lots of things. I was under the impression that there were MANY who had the same issue. THAT would mean that there is a possible defect in the intake itself. Anyway, seems only a few people had the issue and some weren't tuned properly with one being a mystery.... so far.

I agree with Orr, the intake IS pretty pricey and there is a cheaper alternative. But I bet TPIS is has way better customer service and support and I consider that to be worth the extra money.

BWilcox

Given the total price, I am not sure the MiniRam is much more expensive?

The fuel kit includes the rails, fuel pressure regulator, and the fuel lines. Specifically set up for your car.

As far as support is concerned, most companies are the same. They will always support the high buck projects better than the low buck hobiest. Just an economic reality.

Best Regards,

Bruce

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

My BLMs are at 128 with no extra work. The Miniram is tricky to tune and should be tune on a Dyno. This way you can see what is really going on. I bet the Stealth Ram is the same way.

BWilcox

Care to share any VE Tables for the MiniRam?

The curve shape is my area of interest. I am presently tuning with the engine in the car.

After I am done tuning, I will post the BIN. For large motors I have not found any examples.

Best Regards,

Bruce

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Kevin91Z did the tuning on my car. He's gonna have to do it again because I went from a 358cu to 388cu. Start the tuning with the power enrichment. You should get that area in the 12.6-12.8 range. If not then it will dump too much fuel when you hit the gas.

ULTM8Z

I originally created it years ago when I was battling an idle misfire (which ultimately ended up being a stuck piston ring on the #7 cylinder, cured with a bottle of oil additive).

I was grasping at straws and after a TON of reading came across some posts on "split BLMs", discovering the air distribution issues the MR has at low engine speeds. It was interesting to note that the LT1 intake had cast-in idle air passages to help with airflow distribution. Apparently GM was aware of the issue and added the passages. I then came up with the idea of generating one externally to mimic what GM did.

In actuality, it may be that the engine will idle now just fine without it. But I'm not inclined to take it off since it's a PITA to do that. All I know is that it's doing really well as it is.

ULTM8Z

NEVER!!!!

BWilcox

Just wanted to say thanks to Mike. Mike (ULTM8Z) is helping to bring me up to speed on SD tuning. Thanks Mike! In the past, my tuning experience was with MAF systems.

Mike, I admire your attitude on tuning. Perfection!

However, it does highlight potential expectation differences between us hobby guys and the folks who design and produce goods. We expect perfection and companies are in business to make money.

I am offering this opinion after struggling to achieve this balance for ~ 30 years as a R&D Engineer. My desire is perfection but the economic reality is good enough.

Yes, good enough is hard to accept. However, it may explain the various customer opinions on products.

The conclusion is to talk with folks on both ends of the spectrum ( good and bad ). Then try to filter out the opinions that do not make sense.

Sure GM was able to detect potential idle mode air distribution problems with the LT1 and LT4 manifolds. They studied 10 MiniRam examples before creating their version.

As RBob has questioned many times, what was GM's goal? Performance? Reliability? Emissions?

As far as my tuning situation is concerned, making progress. I started with the wrong Injector Constant and VE Tables. Talk about a Chicken or Egg situation! Check out the thread on 42 lb/hr Bosch III Injectors.

Even with all of the above problems, I have not experienced the typical MiniRam issues: bucking, intake pops.

My conclusion is tuning experiences are tied to the engine build combination.

Best Regards,

Bruce

ULTM8Z

No problem. This site has been a tremendous help to me over the years, so I'm glad to help where I can.

Actually, we have something in common I guess.... I too am engineer (used to be at Edelbrock corp in the late 90's until I moved over to aerospace). Yeah, so I'm all too familiar with the compromises that need to be made between engineering it to perfection and getting it "good enough" to meet the requirements.

BWilcox

Hi Mike,

I think Edelbrock casts the MiniRam in CA. Correct?

Best Regards,

Bruce

BWilcox

Hi Guys,

Attached is a picture of my Intake Tract and Throttle Cable set up.

Sorry for the late post. Just really busy!

Best Regards,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Im pretty sure they do. They cast the big mouth base because its identical to the edelbrock one.

ULTM8Z

Possibly now. But they weren't when I was there. We were doing the TPIS Big Mouth manifold, correct. I left the company in 2001, so I don't know what is currently happening though.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Anyone have a good start file for a MAF mini with 60lb injs ?

sheikss

My throttle cable bracket is finally on the way.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

So far this is my best experience with the Miniram.
Cleaned up drivability with the tune.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/sout...-dyno-day.html

sheikss

Got the car finished and on the dyno. Recap of the build. Zz4 shortblock, zziroc17 worked 195 trickflows, lt4 hotcam, 1.6 rockers, 1 3/4" hooker lt, mufflex y, 4" exhaust with ultraflow muffler, tpis ported stock tb 52mm, racetronix pump, 32lb injectors, 3200 circle d stall, 3.73 strange 12 bolt. I figured 380 hp 390 tq flywheel. Ended up at 375 rwhp and 354 rwtq locked and pulled to 6200 rpm with no problem. I removed the stock air intake before the third run and that netted me 25 rwhp. Gonna fab up a 3.5 or 4" cold air with a big filter. Before the 4th and last run, changed the timing, saw those numbers and left it alone. I did touch the miniram up a bit since I wasn't happy with the casting quality. I figure compression is 10.2 to 1 something like that. Zziroc17 did the tuning, dyno was a dynojet, 7730 ecm.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Cool numbers! I'm in the process of fabbing up a 3.5 air intake myself. It should help out in the 6000+ range better than the stock air box.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Good numbers. What im interested in is the 25hp from removing the intake. Did your have the spash gaurds removed? And K&Ns? That a big gain.

sheikss

The only thing different with the air intake was a k&n filter and I had a 3" peice of pipe in place of the maf. Car is a 88 gta.

sheikss

Idle has been hanging a bit since I finished this car. Over time is has gotten progressively worse. Decided to take a look at the throttle body. The butterflies looked horrible in it. They looked like someone cut them out with a jigsaw and had several areas binding in the bore. Took them off and took a file to those spots and it still binds. Got a 58mm holley on the way along with pipe for the cold air intake.