TxTtopZ

Before I start, I will let you know I have done YEARS searching the forums and threads about this intake. I have gone back and forth as to which way I am going to go but now time has run out.

My car is an 89 G92 IROC (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...roc-resto.html) which is being restored. Right about now is the time I would either spend the money on a K member for an LSX. Or do what I think I want to do which is to build a healthy 383 MR/T5/3.45 9 bolt combo. My goals are pretty reasonable: 400-500whp. Good street manners, 180-200° temps, functional A/C, hydraulic roller cam, be able to utilize the factory wiring harness, k member, no smog equipment what-so-ever since it's now exempt and do it with quality pieces... Im thinking a GM 4 bolt block from work... some AFR 195's, cam to be decided, DD's 1 3/4" headers, 4" mufflex, MAF if possible and some ECM mods.

Aside from the stickies posted in this very forum, the drawbacks I have read about the MiniRam are slim. But before I break out the debit card and order a VERY expensive intake...I would like to hear from the owners how well they perform. Not just in power, but driving the thing. How well does the intake work for a street car? How has it held up? Quality? Port matching? How hard was the tuning curve and what do you wish you would have done different? Did you get your goals accomplished? What do you not like??
Anything that you think someone should know basically...Thanks!

BWilcox

Hi,

I have a MiniRamII.

I originally purchased it for a 358 TPI project. 1204 ports.

Years went by and then I built a 420 EFI SBC. I sent the MiniRamII to TPIS for welding. The port size was increased to 1206 to work with the AFR 220 Eliminator Heads.

I can say that the casting quality, welding, and machine work were top notch. In addition, the guys at TPIS (Myron, Jim, Clay) were great to work with.

This engine was tested on the TPIS Dyno. I flew up to MN to watch. A great experience! They treated me like family.

I would give Jim and Clay a call. They are more than willing to help.

Best Regards,

Bruce

cuisinartvette

They are good intakes and can be ordered with different size manifold openings
If it were me go 10.8:1 a 210 AFR head and a smallish solid roller 236-242@050 somewhere in there. 1-3/4primaries, could drive it anywhere and it will be a straight up beast on the street;couldstill run onpremium pump-smaller HR cam maybe stick wiht the 195 depending on where you want to shift, gearing etc. They have plenty of room to port if you want more but are real strong out of the box

TxTtopZ

Nice, good to know that they care about their customers. Did you tune it or have someone else tune?

TxTtopZ

Yeah it's really meant to be a "very" street car... So I will probably stick with the HR cams. I can always go bigger later.

BWilcox

On the Dyno, Jim adjusted the VE table. Monitoring both the Closed Loop fuel trims and WOT(AFR).

The engine is installed but the car is still being built. Hope yo be on the road by the end of July!

I have tuned the MAF based ($32b) systems with decent street cams. It will be interesting to tune a SD system. specifically, the MAT/IAT tables.

Jim indicated that the TPIS tuning strategy is to tune the "basic" parameters (VE, etc.). Do not go crazy. On the dyno, I saw no AE work. As long as the SA was in the ballpark, no back firing from the intake.

BWilcox

I hit the send button before completing the reply!

In general, I prefer to tune my cars. Use TunerPro-RT and the AutoProm. Great stuff!

Given the investment in this engine, I decided that a Dyno run was necessary. Besides checking for usual mechanical issues (none were found), the VE tables ( post dyno run ) were checked for any unusual numbers. Nothing was found.

TPIS built the short block and I built the rest.

Hope this helps!

BR,

Bruce

TxTtopZ

Sounds great! So you pretty much have a nice, go anywhere, reliable car that has plenty of power... Do you mind me asking what the specs on the small block are and a rough estimate of your total costs?

BWilcox

Here is a rough cost estimate.

Short Block: $6000.
Dart SHP Block
Callie's Dragonslayer Crank
Callie's Ultra Light Weight 6" rods.
Mahle Coated Pistons
Bore = 4.155"
Stroke = 3.875"

Heads: $2200
AFR 220 Eliminator with completion porting.
AFR 8019 springs.
Titanium Retainers.

Cam: $400
TPIS ZZX

Lifters: $400
Johnson

Push Rods: $150
Comp Cams

Roller Rockers:$400
Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum

Intake: $1000
TPIS MiniRamII
1206 Ports

Fuel Injectors: $400
Bosch III , 42 lb/hr.

Total Cost = 11K

Pretty close to the costing from Jim Barth. He estimated that it takes around 12K to build a good 420 motor.

Results:
HP: 625 @ 6200 RPM
TQ: 558 @ 5900 RPM
Idle Vacuum : 12" @ 900 RPM

Certainly no race motor. However a good street motor.

I saved money for many years and sold off old hobby equipment to afford this motor.

Hope this helps you.

Best Regards,

Bruce

TxTtopZ

Very impressive Bruce! It certainly looks like the MR has the capabilities. This pretty much solves the riddle and supports what I was thinking. Thanks for your response.

cuisinartvette

558tq in the street is rediculous
Would like to do a 421 sometime big bore and enough stroke to pull some rpm wihtout piston speed too much an issue. Super king sized 383!

BWilcox

Yes, tons of torque.

During the dyno run, the RPM limit was 7000.

Very surprised that TPIS can run these motors that high. Clay indicated that this is no big deal with the correct parts selection.

It certainly helps that I am running a 3.875" stroke with a 6" rod.

For me, the perfect street engine. Should be very easy to drive around town.

On the street, I rarely get above 6K RPM. Just not enough space to go through the gears in an aggressive manner.

I plan on using a GM 7730 SD computer. This was used for the Dyno run.

Looking forward to some Auto-X action!

One interesting note:

I utilized Dynomation for the engine simulations. The accuracy was quite good when compared to the Dyno results. The tool just requires good input data.

Early on in the project, I considered an XFI 236/242 (112 LSA) custom cam. Turns out the ZZ-X Cam made more power and is easier on the valve train. A plus for me on the street.

A quick thanks to Orr89RockZ. We had may PM discussing the project.

Best Regards,

Bruce

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

I have a mild 355 Build with a MR on it. T56 with 3.73s

10.25:1 - 355
Racetec Forged Pistons, Scat 5140 Rods, Stock L98 Crank and Block
Older AFR 180 Non Elim heads.
LT4 Hot cam 218/228 .525/.252 112 LSA
Edelbrock 1 5/8" Headers, 3" Magnaflow cat and adjustable Borla cat back
7730 ECM with PCMforless tune

My guess is it makes around 425 FWHP/340 RWHP, Need to get it on the dyno really.

I drive it daily, when I don't drive my LS1 T/A. Car has A/C only get's over 200* if it's like 110* here in phoenix and I sit in traffic with the A/C going. Car has great street manners and has no problem pulling to 6100-6300 when it runs out of cam. My guess is if it had a bigger cam it would easily surpass that RPM as well as make plenty more power. definitely a 12 second car as it ran a 13.0@107/109 with this motor and the stock TPI dying at 5k rpm.

My recommendation would be to be patient and look for a used one. I paid $400 for mine with fuel rails.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I have one for sale

TxTtopZ

A complete kit? How much are you asking?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

$850
Fuel Rails
Fuel lines
30lbs injectors

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

I think that is a fair price with injectors, TB with sensors, and the EGR kit. Is that the Fbody or Vette thermostat housing?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

You didn't read what I typed that comes with the Miniram.

TxTtopZ

Still not a bad deal. What port size is it ?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

1205

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I couldnt justify the price for miniram new when theres alternatives for much cheaper that support as much or more power. My preference these days is single plane efi with elbow but fitting a good elbow under stock hood is a challenge when trying to maintain proper airflow with smooth large radius bends. Hence my cowl hood lol. But it can be done with a 90 deg elbow under stock hood and still work very well.

Slightly longer runner single planes and ported stealth ram should make more low to mid range trq and power. Mini shines well above 6000 rpm.

But its not uncommon to see 400-450 whp with a stick shift 383 using 195 afr's and bigger hyd roller. After running a hsr 383 with 195 afr's i would have likely gone 210's. A good lobe 230 deg at .050 is plenty streetable and will make huge power. You wont be disappointed with miniram just is a hugely expensive item imo

92RSZ

iTrader: (6)

I've had this intake for the last 10 years and I can tell you it flat out performs if the engine is set up for it. I built a 420 inch small block with afr 210 competition port heads and zz-x cam. I originally bought it as a 1204 port, but took it to a local shop to have it matched to the heads and flowed. With a very small amount of material added and some port cleanup it flowed 336 cfm. The car with a t56 and 4.10 gears dyno'd 472 horsepower on my home made tune. (730 ecm) At 3600 lbs race weight it has run a best of 7.18 at 98.06 mph in the 1/8 mile on a 1.66 60 ft. It has more in it with a better launch. That being said, the downside is airflow distribution at part throttle is terrible. The rear 4 plugs are coated with carbon even though the front 4 look good. It was a little tough to get tuned for part throttle but not awful. If you're planning on making big power I would go single plane with an elbow. I would've if I didn't already have the intake.

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

Oh well, I guess I was thinking of how if I was selling something I would only picture what was for sale. I have been called crazy though...

BWilcox

Hi Guys,

A little confused on the plug comment?

My plugs looked very good after 3 hours on the dyno. There was a fair amount of idle time!

Compared to the GM LT1/LT4 manifold, the MiniRamII has longer runners and a bigger plenum.

I would think the GM manifold would be worse for plug carbon issues?

Best Regards,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Bruce I thought Jim was going to build that motor for you? Is it built already? Curious what the injector % rate was? Injectors are a little on the small side for that much hp. I was looking at min 48lbs-50lbs. I know Jim is running those. Btw what cam did you run? Thanks

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have a 1206 port mini ram on my poked and stroked 400. I'm running AFR 245s, solid roller and long tubes through a nicely built 700r4 with a 9" rear.
It slobers on itself until its over 3500rpm (but by no means undrivable) then it pulls like a train till 8,000rpm.

BWilcox

The engine BSFC was around 0.45. Given an 80% duty cycle goal, this places the injector size around 44 lbs/hr.

Yes, the 42 lbs/hr injector size is close. I am running the injectors at 47 psi.

I purchased the AFR heads from Jim Barth. He has the best prices! Tony Mamo from AFR pushed me in the 220 eliminator (with comp porting) direction. I am glad I listened!

TPIS built the short block. I built up the rest of the engine. It was a good partnership. I was concerned about the clearances within the short block so I figured if was best for them to measure / modify.

What was the deciding factor with the short block build? Proximity to North Carolina.

Best a Regards,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Definatly has the best prices on AFRs by far. Is the miniram out of the box or is it ported? Tpis mentioned they port them for a small fee over and above just porting them out to a 1206 as they all come cast 1205. Thanks.

BWilcox

My MiniRam II is a ported 1206 version.

The port match to the heads was spot on. If my memory serves correctly, Clay indicated that TPIS has port templates for the AFR heads.

Best Regards,

Bruce

sheikss

Waiting on mine to show up, should be on the way soon. Going on a trickflow 195, lt4 hotcam with 1.6 rr, zz4 shortblock, long tubes, 4" mufflex daily driver. I have no idea how it is going to perform. Ordered my trans stuff from Dana yesterday. Will probably go with a 3000 circle d stall and will try and find some 3.70/73 gears for the 9 bolt. Will end up swapping my 12 bolt from my 4th into it. It will have 3.73's for sure then.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Should be a powerful combo. Alot people will tell you you will lose torque on a miniram car. When you have 420 cu there is no such thing as lost torque. Even on a 350 like yours you should make 400+ easy. Take care

sheikss

Thanks IROCZ1989, I was kinda wondering what kind of power it would end up making. I figured 380+ or so horsepower and 390+ or so torque. Buddy is gonna do a little touch up work on the heads so I should be able to get those numbers. Wanted to keep it mild since it will be my daily with all amenities.

BWilcox

sheikss,

Sounds like a nice build!

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

If you ever look at the LT1 code, they had individual cylinder correction for fueling with the LT1 intake at part throttle. I used to play with a friend's car which was a 95 Z28 with LT1 Edit and you could see the different injector settings for each cylinder on the LT1 intake.

The TPI ecm doesn't allow for individual cylinder fueling corrections. When running the bottle on my miniram, I never looked at all cylinders to try and tune them perfect, just tried to make them all happy which will result in some holes having the plugs look right and the back ones looking darker. I think the fuel and air has a hard time making that hard 90 degree turn to holes #1 and #2 and the rest of the air slams the back of the intake and gets sucked down in holes #7 and #8 which causes the darker plugs.

BWilcox

Seems like folks have various experiences with cylinder to cylinder Mixture with the MiniRam II?

I wonder if other parameters (engine size, R/S Ratio, Valve Event Timing) also enter into the picture?

When my intake was ported, I noticed that the runner entry was not 90 degrees to the plenum. Maybe TPIS contimplated this issue?

What cylinders had the darkest plugs?

BR,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Bill. Was that crank hp or in the car? One of Jims strokers a 427,just dynoed rwhp in a vette at 552 at the rear wheels, 6 speed vette. Crazy.

BWilcox

The HP and TQ numbers are at the flywheel.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

You need to get permanatly banned for that link.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

He did

-- Joe

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Joe.

cuisinartvette

That was at the tire

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

crank but its not fully tuned...

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

What did i miss?

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Ok so Bills 625 is at the crank and Jims build is 552 at the tire. About the same. What were your cam specs Bill? Was it a tpis grind?

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

Jims build was 552 at the crank but still good since its not fully tuned. I know you want that to be rwhp. I'd say it will still be tad big over 500 rwhp when fully tuned however.....Numbers arent everything when it comes to these strokers. Its the power under the curve that suprises cars with more HP!!!

My old 421 was faster then a friends GT500 that made way more HP and thats with taking into consideration the weight difference. Not easy to break 500 rwhp with a hyd. roller but the AFR heads are helping.

BWilcox

The cam in my 420 is a TPIS ZZ-X.

Definitely agree that area under the torque curve is the way to go.

I looked at the dyno report again, the torque for my motor was 500+ Lb-ft from 2800 RPM to 6100 RPM.

The 625 HP looks nice on paper. Agreed. The torque will make the car fun on the street.

Jim makes great motors. In addition, he is very good educating us hobby guys.

I went with TPIS (short block) because they are located closer to NC.

Best Regards,

Bruce

BWilcox

Guys,

I made a mistake in the torque peak RPM.

The TQ peak should be 558 lb-ft @ 4900 RPM. The original post indicated 5900 RPM. Sorry about that!

Best Regards,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Bill whats the motor making at 2500? Can you post up a pic of the dyno sheet?

BWilcox

Attached is the Dyno sheet.

My copy of the data does not go down to 2500 RPM.

The full version at TPIS may have data down at this RPM level.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Bruce

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Wow. You have to have at least 450+tq under that 3500. Nice curve.