TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

So, before I put my new front carpet in, I'm POR-15-ing the floor pan (at least the deeper parts, don't think I'm gonna do the sides where the body seam is) but I scraped out the big squares of body seam and have POR-15'd where they were, except now there's a few holes that were covered by the body seam. (some kind of metal plug? O.o)

I bought a can of brush on seam sealer to put over the POR-15 to close the floorpan back up, but from what I've been reading, it seems that nothing likes to stick to the super-glossy POR-15. Would roughing it up with some sandpaper before I brush on the seam sealer be enough to get it to stick, or am I screwed?

vette9190

iTrader: (2)

I just got my first batch of por 15 I also got the gloss black. I have been reading up on it for a while. It seems its best to put the seeler down first then the por 15 but I've read that if you put it down o the por 15 rough sanding with like 400 or 600 grit or while the por 15 is still tacky is the way to do it. I guess I'd say try it and see. I'll be layin on the por 15 all this weekend so I may need to do this myself at some point.

good luck

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

I removed the seam sealer in my car and por-15ed under it. I just went over it with 320 grit lightly and put the seam sealer over it. I have not had any issues with it sticking yet, but its only been a little over a week.

I see no reason why something would not stick to a surface that is sanded. As long as it has been sanded, there are grooves for what you are putting over the surface to hold onto.

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

I ordered some myself. Where the heck is it? Maybe it's coming tomorrow. I will follow your progress. Lot's of pics.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Admittedly, I am probably doing a horrible job because I need to get the carpet in the car so I can drive it to my hometown. Some parts are better than others. Put it down thin! If it dries over wet paint it will make a HUGE bubble that will not flatten out. I've had to scrape up a few spots and re-POR.

And, for the record, I am sanding off most of the paint, down to primer, with 100 grit, and POR-ing over that. Seems to stick good as long as I don't put it down too thick, but it's nowhere near full hardness yet. Time will tell if it peels or not.

Also, the brace that's tack welded in (Off the top of my head, I think it's where the front front seat bolts go?) has a LOT of crap in it. :angry: Clean it out with a can of compressed air, or whatever you have on hand. Because the instant you think it's fine, it will put crap in your paint. And this stuff isn't fun to pull up. I thought the seam sealer was fun. :/

Pics will come when I get AA's for the camera. :P

Edit:
I would be doing a better job, but I have no access to power tools at the car. Stupid apartment complex parking lot. If it all goes ***** up I guess I'll get a 100 foot extension cord and use one of those Krud Killers or whatever that snap-on sells that removes paint, rust, etc. etc.

vette9190

iTrader: (2)

I kind feel ur pain my garage only has one outlet in it and that is up by the garage door opener. lol And no 220 for my compressor or i would be ***** out with the air tools. guess I should run 220 to my garage sometime this year huh. Good luck can't wait to see pics. Well I'm out now to start puttin the por 15 on my car.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Oh, and believe what everyone tells you. Once this stuff gets on your hands, it doesn't come off until your skin does. I figure I have two weeks of looking like some kind of freak, eating food with engine grease on my hands. >.<

Edit:

Looks like the little squares that go where the seatbelt bolts are are made of TAR. Acetone won't remove it like it was the seam sealer. Looks like I have to go get some mineral spirits. :/

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

It should only take about 4-5 days if it is on a part of you hand that gets washed on a regular basis. Everywhere else, such as on you arm, does takes about 2 weeks.

People at work always argued with me about it not coming off. People just don't understand how nasty this stuff is. Its some crazy stuff...

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I plan on coating the bottom of my IROC when I install SFC and LCARB. I only have light surface rust so I'm not expecting to have to do much prep work. So, how much do you think I will need to coat the bottom of my car in POR-15? What stuff do I have to buy? About how much will it cost? I know on POR-15's website the have a Floor Pan and Trunk Kit, but is that going to be enough to cover the bottom of my car? How many coats should I put on?

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

I am watching your progress. Can you post some pics or maybe I can come see. I live in Markham and my por-15 should arrive by Wed.

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

I did the bottom of mine with a grinding wheel, Marine Clean, Metal Ready, and one quart of POR-15 with a lot of POR-15 left over. I put on one wet coat and then a light second coat, then went over some areas a third time.

Marine Clean and Metal Ready are POR-15 products and are all you need to do the prep work (after sanding the surface). They are available at http://por-15.com.

I recomend gloves, a respirator, and some good goggles for applying the POR-15 and sanding the bottom of the car. Its not too fun laying under the car getting pelted in the face with rust particles and whatever other crap is stuck to the bottom of the car.

vette9190

iTrader: (2)

The Scaryone
Looks good so far> Can't wait to see the finished product. Have yo run into any trouble or issues of concern?




86niterider
You can come on by if yo want just PM me.

Unfortunatly I only go tone cote on the driverside floor pan done testerday as I was interupted by a tornado. Thankfully I am ok and have no property damae however I am at hour number 13 wiht no power(thank god for laptop bateries) I will post pics when I can

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Advice:
Use high density foam brushes. Not low density. That's why my back panels don't look nearly as good as my most recent passenger one (not pictured).

To get up the seam sealer pads that are over the floor pan drain plugs, use a SMALL wood chisel. Clean up any large bits with a putty scraper, and then use an Acetone soaked rag to pull up the film that's hard to scrape up. This is the hardest part.

The little pads over the seat belt bolt holes are tar pads, like dynamat. I'm about to go pick up replacements at Home Depot. Tar will not dissolve in acetone, so for these little bastards you need a lot of lighter fluid, or mineral spirits.

I'm using the red automotive 3m sandpaper. I think its 100, or 110 grit. Using it for everything. I'm also not sanding to bare metal, so your mileage may vary. Buy one of the sanding sponges to wrap your sandpaper around. Works great for odd shapes, and applies a pretty even pressure across all of the paper.

And remember, put this stuff on thin, and use two coats. If it goes on too thick, it will bubble when the paint underneath can't dry. Haven't had any issues with flaking yet, but I haven't really tested it either. Crossing my fingers on that one.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

Ya i got some por15 on my face, i must have rubbed my face with the gloves, i got it off but i left red marks from rubbing so hard. VERY difficult stuff to get off.

I used POR15 on my steering linkage and steering box and it turned out great and hasn't flaked off yet. It has a glossy look too.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

So I should get one quart of Por15, but how much should I get of the metal ready and marine clean? Should I bother getting the solvent that they sell? It says it is "Especially formulated for easy cleanup or thinning of POR-15® Rust Preventive Paint." That would be handy if/when I get I get it on my skin right?

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

Yeah I live by I 80 and I 57 and was at leat 2 miles from the Twisters. Very scary. You should of seen me racing to get my car in the brick garage that day. Your town got hit hard by the Twister. I will pmail you for the best time to come take a look see at your progress. thanks

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

I bought the starter kit for $20. comes with the gloves, brushes, Marine Clean and Metal Ready plus Por-15. Seemed like the best bang for my buck.

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

One quart of marine clean should do and one quart of metal ready will be enough also, you could probably get away with the 20 oz of Metal Ready, but a quart would be a safe bet.

The solvent is mainly used for spraying POR-15 products. I wouldn't get it just to take POR-15 off your hands because it probably won't. The solvent bottle says "will not remove cured POR-15" so it is probably not worth the money for anything other than thinning POR-15 products for spraying.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

I used a heat gun on the seam sealer for the drain plugs. Came right up no problem. I hate POR-15 personally after having it fail miserably despite follwing all the prep directions. I know of others with the same issue, especially over already cured paint. I switched to Rust Bullet ( Summit carries it ) and will never go back. So much easier to work with. hopefully you get the results you want with the POR15
I re did all my floor seams with the 3M brushable seam sealer and HOLY CRAP does that stuff stink! For days afte the garage smelled of it. Can still smell it in the car faintly 3 weeks after.
I didn't do the nice squares like the ScaryOne. II pretty much just glopped it on so it was sealed up good.

As you can see in the pic, Rust Bullet is silver not black. The intstructions say to let it dry for 24 hours then top coat with whatever you want.. so that's what I did with the seam sealer.
I didn't care so much since it's getting covered with a few layers of sound damping before the carpet even goes on so it's never going to be seen again lol.

That's the first layer of SecondSkin Audio Damplifier mat, I followed with the brush on Spectrum.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I'm gonna carpet it, and when I get the cash to sound deaden, examine it heavily to see if it fails in anyway. If it does, I'll re-do it, and it seems that most people fall into the POR-15 or Rust Bullet camps.

My seam sealer is NOT 3M. It's some canadian brand I got for $24 for a quart. (Only size of brush on at the store I went to) doesn't stink, and dries pretty damned hard. Not at all like the crap in the car factory. It doesn't stay sticky, and I can wipe it with Acetone and it won't come up.

As for my nice little squares, I laid down masking tape, sloshed on the sealer, and then peeled it up while still wet.

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

POR-15 is not meant to be applied over other paints. With any rust proof paint, you loose all of its rust preventative properties by not applying it directly to the metal. POR-15 needs at least a roughed up surface to stick to, it doesn't do well going right over non sanded paint (flakes right off).

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Oh, update.

To get rid of those seam sealer patches over the body plugs, soak a rag in mineral spirits, and let it sit on them for a few hours. Turns them into the consistency of chewed gum. WAAAAY easy to scrape out then.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

i just dumped acetone on the tared up drain holes i let it sit over night then that morning i used a air impact hammer SO much easier then scraping it by hand took a few mins per patch

Mathius

Yeah, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but by applying it over paint, you're pretty much throwing your money away. Also, if you don't coat the underbody and the top of the floorpan, again, you're wasting your money.

POR is a rust encapsulator, its basically tree sap with some stuff added. It's meant to be applied to bare metal, but sticks best to rusted metal. Rust will happen anywhere air can get to bare metal. That means you have to coat all sides of it, or close off all sides of it. I.E. if you're doing subframe connectors out of tubing, make sure you weld closed the end of the tubing to ensure an air tight seal. You can use rust through primer of course, but you'll never know how good that's actually working. I would do both.

I personally have had problems applying POR to "clean" metal, even with their Metal Ready product. I applied POR to the floor pans on my '76 Malibu, and I have experienced peeling.

One last thing, POR is extremely UV sensative, so it should be used in areas where sunlight isn't going to get at it (inside of car, underbody, engine bay).

Also POR isn't a good foundation for paint, but POR makes their own products that allow you to paint over it if you follow their instructions. I have never used their paint products so I can't vouche for them. If it were me, I'd only use POR in areas where I didn't plan on painting. But if I HAD to, I'd apply POR, then POR's primer, and then use another manufacturers paint. Who knows what kind of color availability POR has.

I bought a Gallon can years ago, and I have gotten a lot of mileage out of it. It's still half full and I did a complete set of floor pans and some other stuff with it.

I applied it with $1 store foam brushes. They did ok, but disolve after a while. I usually dump an amount of poor into one of those cheap throwaway baking pans and use that. POR will harden in the can if you aren't careful.

Take a plastic bag, or some cling wrap or shrink wrap and put it over the top of the can, then put the lid down over that, to ensure an air tight seal.

Mathius

89junkyardgta

I too have used POR-15 with varying results. As Mathius said, it is very sensitive to UV light. Turns the gloss to flat. Anything I coat with POR-15 I either sandblast or scuff the heck out of. POR-15 HATES a smooth surface. It also hates ANY petroleum product....I once used a petroleum degreaser to clean up a frame before painting...the paint peeled off in sheets....ALL of it. I use Simply Green and LOTS of water before I paint my stuff...works well. I haven't tried this Rust Bullet stuff, but I'm interested.

Mathius

Everything I've read indicated it was originally intended to be a marine coating, so that all more or less makes sense that it would react that way.

Mathius

DM91RS

I'd like to try the Rust Bullet if it's a better application for a rear end. How much do you think it would take to do a 10 bolt rear end housing? Also can the black be used like the grey? IE: just brush it on the bare rusty metal. It says coating. I would like to just do black and I'm not really concerned with rust. I just want a coating to stick without blasting the darn thing.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku



Thanks..........DM

robertg

iTrader: (2)

i had a quart each of the silver and gloss black por-15. i wound up using less than a half of a pint when i painted the rear axle on my astro van.

where i made my mistake was trying to do a coat of the silver, and then a coat of the black on the rear axle of my van.

the paint wound up being too thick, and it is starting to chip on me. they're not kidding when they say to apply it in thin coats. no matter how careful i was, i still managed to get a little bit of the paint on my hands.

DM91RS

Thanks. It sounds like a pint should do it.

DM91RS

Does anyone have any info on the two different products that I listed above? In other words can I just buy the black and it go on and stick as well as the "base" which only comes in grey IIRC?

Thanks

SLEEPER 86

the marine clean leaves one heck of a stubborn film. they say you are supposed to get all of it off too. i had better results just scrubbing the crap out of my bead blasted engine block with mineral spirits (wear chemical resistant gloves!).then using the metal ready to develop a nice trace coat of rust, then spreading only black very thin and watching the drying times VERY carefully! you really kind of need to haul a** to keep up. if you're doing a bunch of parts, it's probably better to do them one at a time. petroleum jelly works great for anything you don't want it to stick to, (hands???)
oh, and it does dry up in the can, so seal it tight. anyone know if you can reconstitute it with mineral spirits?
Eric B

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

no you cant reconstitute. its best to use small cans if you are just doing a few spots. you can reseal the cans with plastic wrap, but it wont last very long.
POR15 is a great product, but as stated before, certain guidelines must be followed. And wear gloves, people. latex is fine, it doesnt eat it.
main points of using POR15:
1)bare metal, rougher the better. sandblasting makes a great surface prep. The marine clean works good, but simple green and citric cleaners are fine too, just rinse thoroughly. Use the metal ready on smoother or rusty surfaces, but not necessary if sandblasted. to cover, use the por15 top coats to be uv stable, they have a few basic colors. You can use the ty-cote primer to topcoat w/ another color. works fine if prepped properly, but por 15 doesnt make the best undercoat for perfect, smooth finish.
2)completely coat the metal. if you coat the outside of a frame rail, the inside will still rust.
3)timing and ambient humidity are very important. thin coats, applied when the previous coat has a slight finger drag still, but not tacky. If you wait too long, wait until it cures completely and sand before the next coat. Dont apply in humid conditions. I beleive they recommend 60% or less relative humidity. too humid and it will not bond.

I have used POR15 for years in boat yards and on jeeps, had my share of failures, but always because of not having time to follow all the guidelines. (usually because it was too humid on application, sometimes a tough one to get around in the east)

The other great thing about POR15 is that it works perfectly as a fiberglass resin. You can treat rusty floor pans and fiberglass them at the same time. Comes out really strong.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Three months later and almost no progress. Damnit. >.<

vette9190

iTrader: (2)

WOW! Ironic I just got a new supply in yesterday to do the trans tunnel, rear floor and trunk pan area and axle. And the high temp paint for my exhaust. And here this old post comes back to life.

Sorry to here no more progress man but hey winter is coming and its only usefull for workin on car you won't drive till spring anyways.