NiG

Hi all!

(I don't know if this is the best place to write. In case not, the moderator would gently move this topic )

I'm an italian dude who is finally about to buy a 1989 Trans-Am GTA (already in Italy). I've been dreaming this moment for almost ten years, but now I'm full of doubts and I would like to ask you to kindly help me in clarifying some of those.



*** THE CAR ***

1989 GTA 5700cc, automatic, you can see the selling page here:
http://goo.gl/9W6Cfw

When I went to see the car, I made two additional pictures:
http://s29.postimg.org/45982xno7/IMG...014_135829.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/9fe6u87x3/IMG...014_135854.jpg

Actual price is 9000€ (euros).

as you can see, it looks good. Owner told me that the car is in great conditions and has been driving it for over four years without ANY problem. Actually, I drove it and it runs good.



*** MY DOUBTS ***

1) the car itself
Is that car a reliable, strong car? It is going to break easily or is it going to last?
Is is a secure, confortable and good car to drive, compared to modern cars?

2) price
Is 9000€ a good price for that car? Will I be able to re-sell it in Italy (or Europe) in 3-4 years with the same price? Owner told me that actually that car is rated about 11000-12000€.

3) replacement parts!!!!
Is it sure I'll be able to find any replacement part if something would break? My biggest concerns are about the transmission (4-automatic) and engine.
If so, what is the best place to buy the parts? I live in Italy.

4) transmission robustness
Does the GTA have a robust transmission?
Can I strongly accelerate without being worried about some mechanical crack?
Before buying, is there a way to check the transmission overall state/condition?

5) engine
Any suggestion about how to check if the engine is in good condition?

6) interiors
The car has some weak points. A couple of buttons are damaged, some parts of the interior should be replaced. The seats didn't seem robust to me. What about this?

7) noise
It seemed pretty noise to me. When running above 30-40MPH, you are force to talk in a pretty high voice. Street "holes" cause a big metallic suspension bang. Is it normal?



I have tons of doubts but these are the majors. Any suggestion is REALLY appreciated. The main goal is to foresee if it is a good purchase. I really dont want to spend 9000€ and after a month spend another 2000€/3000€ to repair something


Really thanks,
bye

-NiG

padak

iTrader: (10)

The link doesn't work for me, so picture will be really helpful. I don't know about in Italy, but people fake GTA's in America. As for the price, won't be able to tell with out pictures and mileage. I would say, in average aroudn America, and it can very greatly around or under 100,000 mile's can be from 8,000 to 12,000 depending on condition of car, which is where we need the pictures. Not sure what happened but the link doesn't work.

As for part an reliability, that will be more along the lines of how many miles and how well previous owner took care of the car. As for the Engine and Transmission holding up, if they are stock and have been maintained, I would say they will hold up great over time.

As for parts, you can order almost anything you need from the big web sites Summit, Jegs, etc, I believe they ship internationally?

EDIT: You are in Italy, buy a Ferrari

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

I been driving my 88 GTA 5.7 automatic since new; maintained it, loved it, and took car of it. It has had it's issues; nothing big.
Trans/engine/rear end has been awesome with no issues. I replaced shocks/struts/ and normal wear and tear items like tires/belts/tune-ups.

TPI engines all have their quarks, but nothing that is so bad. It can all be trouble shot and repaired.

Get yourself a Helms manual and read up on EVERYTHING about it. It will be your partner for life in figuring out anything about your car.

Also, 9000 euros OR $11,450, is a lot of money for a car with the issues you have mentioned. My opinion only.

Good luck with your search!

NiG

Thank you guys

Sorry, my fault for the link, this should work:
http://goo.gl/9W6Cfw

When I went to see the car, I made two additional pictures:
http://s29.postimg.org/45982xno7/IMG...014_135829.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/9fe6u87x3/IMG...014_135854.jpg

As you can see, from outside the car looks really good. The owner had it repainted less than two years ago, and put brand new suspensions (front and back).
I can assure you that the owner looked to me as an enthusiastic and passionate for that car. In fact, he is selling it because he has plans to go abroad. He said the car never had problems whatsoever, and he drove it with care, never doing funny things (ex: burnouts). He even said that he used to put the gearshif in "N" at semaphores to avoid boiling the oil

Tha car is claimed to have about 90.000 miles (140.000km). The transmission and the engine have never been changed.

So answering to Padak, yes, engine and transmission are stock and (in theory) have been mantained. But the question is: is there a way for a mechanic to check this, I mean, to ratify the transmission in is good conditions? If yes, how?
I would tell this to the mechanic I contacted to check the car befoure buying.

If the transmission has to be changed, are them avaiable somewhere?

Bob88GTA, what is a "helms manual"? The car manual? Where can I find it? THANKS!

About the price, keep in mind it's a bit higher in Europe, since here that car looks terribly cool and exotic, and it comes from USA, kinda far

Last question: can the mileage be easily tricked/modified ?

--

If you really and honestly assure me that 1) a mechanic can make sure of the car being in great conditions as claimed by the owner 2) engine parts and, more importantly, transmission parts are somehow avaiable 3) the GTA is a good and reliable car overall

==> I think I'll probably proceed to the purchase

THANKS EVERYBODY FOR YOUR REPLY, you're very usefull for me!


bye

-NiG

padak

iTrader: (10)

I think the price is fair, a GTA that clean and with only 90,000 mile where I am located would go for around $8,000, then you convert to Euro and add some money because of how hard / rare it is, I think it's an OK deal.

As for your question about checking the Engine/Transmission, any seller with nothing too hide would surely let you bring a mechanic to check over the car on-site. If you know any mechanic's that know American cars, I would toss them some $$ to come check the car, better safe than sorry.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

NiG, A Helms manual is the manual used to tell you everything on how to repair your car. Go online and type in Helms Publishing and go to the site and look up your year of car. Expect to pay around $125.00 US Dollars, but worth every penny. Also, go on E-Bay and check there. They are a lifesaver!

Have the mechanic check the trans fluid (or you for that matter) nice pink. Check oil for nice golden or not bad, Check for leaks under the car, engine compartment. Also, you mentioned a metal noise when you hit holes on the road; check shock mounts, rubber bushings, torque arm, engine / tranny mounts.

Also, I just LOVE the Gunmetal Gray GTA's!
Oh, mine's that color!

You will really enjoy it! It looks very nice and clean from here!

FirebirdUSX

No actually in Europe its pretty cheap for a Trans Am.Its so cheap that i feel i missed the deal.In Germany Ive seen Firebird Formula price starting from 11,000€ .When I see third gens for few hundred dollars in US I slowly die inside These cars are rich man's car in Europe (should see the taxes for cars with engines bigger than 1.9litres) and in US are treated as junks .

@NiG
Downside is that these cars are so rare that people will know you for the car .... you will hear alot "isnt X that guy with the Trans Am" or "what kind of Ferrari is that"

Get it ,keep it original and it will never go down in price.Pontiac is gone and that will make these cars worth a fortune in years.You can't go wrong with this and you can even consider it a investment .

The mileage can be modified but if it was why just 90,000 and not lower .Look at pedal wear to get an idea how much was used.There should not be much wear at 140,000km and from pics it looks fine.Even if the car would have 200,000 km these engines dont rev like japanese engines and last more than the car if you dont abuse them.A 10,000km abused car is worse than a 300,000km maintained car.

The car is very noisy ...guess you are used to those crappy 1.3l engines we have around in Europe.You don't need a light on the dash to show you the engine is running...you can hear and feel it...thats why these cars are fun.The suspension is not soft and you will feel all holes in the road.Thats a good thing because hard suspension equals better handling.

NiG

Hi!

Thanks Padak and Bob for the advices about checking the car condition/state. So you say that the transmission oil color/viscosity is enough to estimate the transmission state? Anythig else about it?
I insist on this because I personally think that the transmission is something very easy to have problems with, expecially after a certain mileage, and they say they are impossible to find brand new, and hard to find secondhand in Europe.

About the price, keep in mind that FirebirdUSX is totaly correct: these cars, in europe, are rich man's car. We use to have smaller cars and more economic engines (gasoline prices here are very high).
I've checked and finding a GTA under 10.000€ seems to be impossible.

FirebirdUSX, are you sure it is even going to increase its values over time?

With noisy I meant the suspensions and the feeling with road, not the engine itself. Super pure metal sound after every road hole

Talking about transmission again, HOW MUCH DOES IT LAST if original/stock and threated nicely????

Other pictues of the same car here: http://goo.gl/rHuLbE

THANKS GUYS for your help!!

-NiG

FirebirdUSX

I said it will increase in price because I followed the prices both in europe and US .For example back in 2008 on ebay you could find lots of third gens @500 to 1000$...now you are lucky to find one starting the auction at that price.
In europe most Firebirds and camaros Ive seen over the years always went up in price ,even thou most are v6 not top car like Trans Am you got.To know if they will go up even more you have to look at 2nd gen camaros and firebirds and try buy that under 30,000€ .

Oh and yes it should rattle like that ...also you should hear the dash when you drive over cracks in the pavement...the front suspension is very very stiff and that helps with handling but not with comfort.These cars dont have leaf springs (like most BS european myths say...it would boggle the mind of Jeremy Clarkson)

Cheers and have fun with your new toy

tunatrky

Regarding how long the transmission lasts, it can last for quite a while with care. I have seen them survive 200,000 + miles [over 320,000 KM]. I have seen some go out as early as 90,000, but it was leaking and the owner didn't bother to investigate.

Engine: A mechanic can do a compression test, tell you if the engine block and valves are in good shape. It's as simple, or as difficult, as removing a spark plug, one at a time. You may ask him to put a piece of cardboard under his engine and let it sit overnight, to see if there are any slow leaks.

Transmission: Pink fluid, no burnt smell. It may smell like a sweet oil, but burning smells like burnt electronics is bad.

Road noise: You say it's loud, and it's not the engine. Tires and suspension can effect this. An ambient humming noise. Or wind from the window seals. I don't believe there is a lot of sound deadening material in these cars, but my V8 is fairly quiet on the highway. Stock dual exhaust. I can hear the road noise, but that comes from old tires and old suspension.

For 90,000 miles, I would expect it to be in good running order. If the compression test is good [high, even numbers within a certain percentage of each other], and the transmission does not slip or whine, you take care of it and keep all fluids full, I'd say it will last quite a while [200,000+. Maybe somebody else can chime in as to the longevity]. No immediate things to service at this mileage, unlike a 4/6/8 cylinder interference engine which requires regular timing belt changes.

It looks beautiful. Maybe you can talk to the owner and get your few complaints repaired, or he could haggle on the price a little bit. Should be no noise coming over pot holes

NiG

Yeah FirebirdUSX, generally they go up in price, expecially in Europe. That's a good fact. Ok for the stiff suspensions

Thanks Tunatrky about the info regarding the transmission. 200.000+miles?? That's astonishing!
I dont know what a compression test is, but I'm sure the mechanic does Thanks for the other advices, very usefull!

@Padak: a Ferrari? I've seen some in a car fair some days ago. Starting price for the ugliest: 55.000€. There was an F40 priced 1.300.000€ (1.78 million $). An Enzo priced 1.600.000€. Not that affordable

bryan623

My 89 GTA has 215.000 miles on it and the engine and tranny still run very well. Granted the tranny may need a over haul in the future, but these cars have an abundance of parts that even in Europe you should have no trouble finding the replacement parts you need. And you can tell if it s a real GTA by looking in the center console. There should be a sticker in there. On that sticker look for Y84 I believe it is.

NiG

215.000 miles with stock parts????

I'm sure it's a GTA. You say it's easy to find replacements here?

padak

iTrader: (10)

Yes, you can order them online, mostly anything you will need. Since you care is in that good condition, it would mostly be maintenance items that if local auto-parts carriers didn't have them, you can certainly get them online.

You'd be surprised how long you can get out of these cars,engines, transmission with just normal scheduled maintenance, preventive maintenance, and not driving like an idiot lol

Side note, my first vehicle was a 1995 GMC Yukon with the standard TBI 350 motor in it. I drove it for almost 3 years without changing the oil or any fluid, getting inspected, nothing and you know what the first to go was? Some electrical issue in the ignition haha, motor was fine.

I don't recommend that, I am just stating how strong these engines can be.

NiG

Thanks Padak!

So what kind of maintenance do you suggest to schedule in order keep car engine and transmission checked and in health?

THANKS!

w0lfpack91

honestly Nig. just buy the car you will not regret it. your biggest hurdle with that car will be Fuel, a GTA with a SBC 350 gets about 13-15 MILES per gallon in the stop and go city. not sure how you mesure in italy but for a V-8 it awesome economy. i used to have a 350 TPI Z28 iroc auto trans camaro and i hot rodded the hell out of that car i would literally throw it in reverse and romp the throttle and spin the tires in reverse then jam it in drive without letting off the throttle it would kick sideways and leave rubber marks almost a 1/4 mile long down thee road, did this every time i left my house, burnouts at every stop light, romp the throttle and kick it sideways in every turn. so long as i kept the engine oiled and cool it never missed a beat. i checked the oil every day changed it every 6 months, check the tranny fluid every day after driving for a while usually at the end of the day while the tranny is warm, so long as it is still pink the tranny is good. drove that camaro from my 16th birthday till i was in college when i was 21 it was t-boned in a parking lot in winter because the idiot was going too fast and hit an ice patch and couldn't stop or turn. that GTA has the same engine transmission and rear end as my old Iroc and i never had a problem with it ever and i drove it real hard i wet through three sets of rear tires in a year but the car never stoped. the 350 is an extremly popular engine, parts are everywhere and usually pretty cheap, the tranny so long as you take care of it it should never fail as for strength that tranny can handle three times the power that a stock 350 can dish out.

NiG

Goddamn w0lfpack91, this is the most encouraging, convincing and comforting message someone has ever told to me about buying that car
I f*****g appreciate it

That was the kind of message I dreamed to receive: someone who tells me the car is solid if serviced, terribly strong and very enjoable. Thanks

Good to read that you was always doing burnouts but any damane has never appeared. That's my biggest concern: what if I push the throttle and have some burnouts, I mean, few, once in a while. Do I risk to crack the transmission? To crack the differential? You convincingly said NO, it's very unlikely to happen
That's something very comforting, even the fact that the tranny can handle very easily a stock 350.

THANKS A LOT

btw, do you suggest me to put an after market tranny cooler? I've read hot oil is the main reason of troubles, and the transmission is not cooled so good.

thanks!

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

"btw, do you suggest me to put an after market tranny cooler? I've read hot oil is the main reason of troubles, and the transmission is not cooled so good."

Your trans cooler is fine. Save your money for fuel.



Nobody can guarantee trouble free after beating the hell outta the car. Once you feel how these cars drive, you'll learn to appreciate them. Nobody has fun sinking big bucks into a repair job due to a stupid screw-up of they're own fault...Sorta like "Here, hold my beer and watch this" kinda thing. You learn real quick...I know all about it!

NiG

So the stock cooler is ok. Great.
I hope everything will be ok

thanks

a62belair

NiG,
I have 279,000 miles on my Firebird V6/auto (700R4) with no issues!
I have 150,000 miles on my Formula V8/auto (with an occasional burnout!) with no issues!
Enjoy your car!

NiG

DAMN, thank you very much for your encouragement, that was VERY reassuring!!!

How have you been using your car, flooring it sometimes or always going safe and low RPM?

BTW, I finally bought it less than a week ago. Here you can see it: http://goo.gl/KsFj04

THANKS!!