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I am looking into repainting my Firebird, with T-Tops. It was originally Black now faded gun metal gray. I want to take it down to metal and repaint it black again.
1. How much Paint do I need. 1 Gal or more?
2. How many coats would be suggest before clear coat, 2 or more?
3. How much clear coat would I need, 1 Gal as well?
4. How many coats would be suggested?
I am going to blast it with soda or shells, whatever is best. I have done this before on an old 71 CJ-5 years ago, so I am ok with blasting.
Going to paint the car in sections, fenders, hood, then doors and rest of car.
I know there is a ton of postings here but wanted to cut to the chase if ok. thanks gang.
with T-Tops you could probably paint the whole thing with 1/2 gallon, especially if you're not using the same paint on the GFX. 1 gallon would be plenty. 2-3 coats base, 3-4 coats clear.
with T-Tops you could probably paint the whole thing with 1/2 gallon, especially if you're not using the same paint on the GFX. 1 gallon would be plenty. 2-3 coats base, 3-4 coats clear.
Thanks NAF! I want it to be the rich black I had when it was new. Man every time I polished it years ago, at night it turn heads. Would like to get her back to her former glory.
It depends on how cheap of paint you are using. Quality basecoat will cover in 2 coats, budget paints might not. Spray a test panel, clear coat it and take it out in the sun to see if it looks right. When I painted my Alero dark blue I used a budget brand and it took more than a gallon to get full coverage. If you don't plan on sanding and buffing then 2 coats of clear should be fine, otherwise 3 if you plan on sanding and buffing but be careful spraying the 3rd. The more clear you put on the more of a chance you'll get runs. If you spray 2 coats then 1 gallon should be enough, if you spray more then you may or may not need more.
I also used budget paint and ended up using almost 2 gallons of color and 1.5 gallons of clear. Coverage is super important when painting a car in pieces. If you don't get full coverage the panels will not mach when you put them back on the car. Since you are going to bare metal you are going to need etching primer then at lease 1 gallon of 2k primer.
And lots of sand paper and time. Buy 3M paper dont buy cheap crap. The good stuff will last 3 times longer than the cheap stuff.
That compressor will run your paint gun. Its going to be murder if you plan on sand blasting the whole car using that compressor tho. Sand blaster will eat a lot of CFM
Only use single stage if it's going to be a garaged daily driver that you won't care to restore or enter in car shows in the future. You are going to go to ALOT of trouble in painting this car and getting it as "right" as you can within your abilities. Why cheap out and use single stage over base/clear? You're really not saving enough to warrant it. A quart of DuPont Nason line Arctic White cost about $25. Yeah, black will be $5-10 more per quart. Clear coat is more expensive, a gallon of clear in Nason will run $175 or so. The top of the line DuPont Chroma Premier Clear Gallon cost me ~$375. Thats top of the line, arguably can't buy better than that. You can do a budget line in DuPont primer, base/clear for ~$500.
With the budget line series of anything the product will have less solids and/or pigment and take more product to cover. It also may not spray as well or have as good UV resistance properties. For color if the whole vehicle is sprayed in primer you should only need 2 medium coats, 3 quarts should be fine for t-tops but if you want to do the nooks and crannies and engine bay than a gallon may be better. If you want to spray the entire car (meaning interior) than 2 gallons color.
Only use single stage if it's going to be a garaged daily driver that you won't care to restore or enter in car shows in the future. You are going to go to ALOT of trouble in painting this car and getting it as "right" as you can within your abilities. Why cheap out and use single stage over base/clear? You're really not saving enough to warrant it. A quart of DuPont Nason line Arctic White cost about $25. Yeah, black will be $5-10 more per quart. Clear coat is more expensive, a gallon of clear in Nason will run $175 or so. The top of the line DuPont Chroma Premier Clear Gallon cost me ~$375. Thats top of the line, arguably can't buy better than that. You can do a budget line in DuPont primer, base/clear for ~$500.
With the budget line series of anything the product will have less solids and/or pigment and take more product to cover. It also may not spray as well or have as good UV resistance properties. For color if the whole vehicle is sprayed in primer you should only need 2 medium coats, 3 quarts should be fine for t-tops but if you want to do the nooks and crannies and engine bay than a gallon may be better. If you want to spray the entire car (meaning interior) than 2 gallons color.
Tibo
Great info and thanks. I want a NICE paint job that will last. So maybe stage one is not right for me. What would you suggest for a call I can take to shows, not to really compete but more to show off as well as enjoy it to drive? I don't want to go cheap on the paint on this car. I want it to last. I don't have a garage, maybe some day, but I do have it in one of the garage tents you can get at Harbor Freight.
I think DuPont and, PPG entry level lines are fine if it's garage kept and not a top dollar/high effort build. If it isn't garaged kept a better line by PPG or DuPont would be better long term for it's added UV resistance. I have heard great things about House of Kolor paints but I have no experience with them, their price seems good. I've also read that Eastwood and Summit paints are both relabeled Kirker paints, so should be more for an economical job.
I think DuPont and, PPG entry level lines are fine if it's garage kept and not a top dollar/high effort build. If it isn't garaged kept a better line by PPG or DuPont would be better long term for it's added UV resistance. I have heard great things about House of Kolor paints but I have no experience with them, their price seems good. I've also read that Eastwood and Summit paints are both relabeled Kirker paints, so should be more for an economical job.
Thanks but this car may have exposure from time to time so I want something durable but looks like at least a factory paint job. It will be black so I want it to be right.
Also, I am going to put the original graphics back on, Formula 350 on the doors, etc. Its it more desirable to put them on after the primary coat and before the clear coat? Or just put them over the clear coat?
Thanks but this car may have exposure from time to time so I want something durable but looks like at least a factory paint job. It will be black so I want it to be right.
Also, I am going to put the original graphics back on, Formula 350 on the doors, etc. Its it more desirable to put them on after the primary coat and before the clear coat? Or just put them over the clear coat?
All the info is really helpful, thanks to all.
If you just want factory quality than an entry line paint by a DuPont or PPG would be fine. You can then wet sand and buff the clear and it will look better than factory.
Any decal or vinyl would be put on after after the clear coat and only after the paint is allowed to outgas. How long that is depends on the paint used, DuPont is 72 hours unless you can force dry it or you live in the southwest like me and you can just put it in the summer sun.
The tech sheets for Clear coat usually advise for 2 wet coats of clear. You can apply three as insurance against sanding and buffing through to the color coat but when applying three or more you should extend the flash time between coats to help prevent solvent pop. Also the more coats of clear you use the more important your technique is. You can start to develop a waviness or lots of orange peel with multiple coats of clear. As a side I use three and have heard of the guys from more well known body shops using 4.
I used shopline paint (A budget line by PPG) on the Alero that it scratched super easily. I was afraid to even wash it. I wouldn't spray a budget clear on a dark color again personally. I sprayed my Trans am with PPG clear and it scratches more easily than factory clear but much less than the shopline did. If you're experienced with sanding and buffing then 2 coats of clear is all you really need, but 3 would be much safer if you're not experienced. I've sprayed 4 coats of PPG clear a few dozen times for the candy colors that require it and it is a challenge, don't try it.
I used shopline paint (A budget line by PPG) on the Alero that it scratched super easily. I was afraid to even wash it. I wouldn't spray a budget clear on a dark color again personally. I sprayed my Trans am with PPG clear and it scratches more easily than factory clear but much less than the shopline did. If you're experienced with sanding and buffing then 2 coats of clear is all you really need, but 3 would be much safer if you're not experienced. I've sprayed 4 coats of PPG clear a few dozen times for the candy colors that require it and it is a challenge, don't try it.
What PPG paint did you use on the Trans Am? I think we would both agree that clear coat is the place to really sink your money.
What PPG paint did you use on the Trans Am? I think we would both agree that clear coat is the place to really sink your money.
I used PPG Envirobase waterborne base and D8152 Glamour Clearcoat. Its a great clear that lays down like glass but next time I might use EC530. That clear is harder to lay down as smooth and any buffing must be done the next day or two but once it drys MUCH harder. It would be nice to not worry about putting fine scratches in my car when I wash it.
I used PPG Envirobase waterborne base and D8152 Glamour Clearcoat. Its a great clear that lays down like glass but next time I might use EC530. That clear is harder to lay down as smooth and any buffing must be done the next day or two but once it drys MUCH harder. It would be nice to not worry about putting fine scratches in my car when I wash it.
Well I have to paint it in a temporary garage so I want it to go down quick and easy as possible. At the same time I want it to be durable and look nice. I am not experienced at all with wet sanding and buffing so best i avoid that. Guess go with a good ppg main coat and figure out what's best for clear at 2 coats.
Keep in mind you might get a lot of dirt/bugs in your paint if you paint in a temporary garage. And you'll need to keep the air flowing while your painting and while the paint is drying if you want to keep it from hazing up and solvent popping so you can't just close up the garage to keep the dirt out. If I were trying to paint a car in a temporary garage I would want a paint that air drys quickly (less of a chance for stuff to get in your wet paint). D8152 air drys in 8+ hours so I would avoid that. EC350 air drys in 4 hours. I don't have any experience with DC3000 but I've heard that it air drys in 2 hours but can only be used on a couple panels at a time, not a complete car. I love DC2000 because it air drys in half an hour but can only be used on single small panels. Your hood and quarter panels will be too big to pull that off without it looking weird. I'd read up on DC3000 and see if that sounds right for you.
Keep in mind you might get a lot of dirt/bugs in your paint if you paint in a temporary garage. And you'll need to keep the air flowing while your painting and while the paint is drying if you want to keep it from hazing up and solvent popping so you can't just close up the garage to keep the dirt out. If I were trying to paint a car in a temporary garage I would want a paint that air drys quickly (less of a chance for stuff to get in your wet paint). D8152 air drys in 8+ hours so I would avoid that. EC350 air drys in 4 hours. I don't have any experience with DC3000 but I've heard that it air drys in 2 hours but can only be used on a couple panels at a time, not a complete car. I love DC2000 because it air drys in half an hour but can only be used on single small panels. Your hood and quarter panels will be too big to pull that off without it looking weird. I'd read up on DC3000 and see if that sounds right for you.
Whether or not you can close the garage and leave it closed while you paint depends on how big the garage is vs how much you are painting. If you are just doing one or two panels at a time then you could do that in a closed single car garage and be fine. 2-4 panels would need a 2 car garage and spraying a body would need a 4 car garage. Of course I'm just basing this on the amount of overspray that I see in the air and can feel on my plastic sheeting. You could use the temporary garages and get great results but you will have to buy a couple rolls of plastic sheeting and wrap the entire thing like a present. Make a cut out on both ends that you can tape a furnace filter to and put a box fan behind one filter- this will give you the air flow and fresh air you need. I think instead of air dry you are referring to the dust-free time. Once a panel hits the dust free time you can open up the garage or move the panel outside. Just know that the paint is still soft and simply picking it up can cause a smudge or permanent finger print. But no need to wait the full dry time.
Keep in mind you might get a lot of dirt/bugs in your paint if you paint in a temporary garage. And you'll need to keep the air flowing while your painting and while the paint is drying if you want to keep it from hazing up and solvent popping so you can't just close up the garage to keep the dirt out. If I were trying to paint a car in a temporary garage I would want a paint that air drys quickly (less of a chance for stuff to get in your wet paint). D8152 air drys in 8+ hours so I would avoid that. EC350 air drys in 4 hours. I don't have any experience with DC3000 but I've heard that it air drys in 2 hours but can only be used on a couple panels at a time, not a complete car. I love DC2000 because it air drys in half an hour but can only be used on single small panels. Your hood and quarter panels will be too big to pull that off without it looking weird. I'd read up on DC3000 and see if that sounds right for you.
Great advise! I will do my due diligence for sure. thank for all this great information. Very helpful.
First though I have to solve my code 42 BS. I posted on that as well.
Actually I have ordered color paint in a spray can for my minivan. I hit a deer recently and had to replace the hood, among other items. I got the paint and clear from http://www.automotivetouchup.com/
I had to paint the primary coat 2 times, 10 minutes between each. Then wait 30 minutes to paint the clear. Now I am NO painter, but I have to say I am VERY please with the color match and over all look. I just order more for my 1999 TJ JEEP being I have to replace both front fenders, yes, MORE D@MN deer!!
I am considering using their paint for the Formula as well. Thought I would put this out there.
Last edited by Hawkeye1980; 06-01-2016 at 03:34 PM.
In my shop yes I have my own little body shop i like to use the following...
Besa primer stuff cost me a little over $100 a gallon for it and the hardner it is thick and thick will cover. As for a guide coat I just use cheap black spray bomb it's coming off anyway.
Now for in and out stuff as far as clear goes I perfer finish one if reduced correctly it very easy to spray as I spray it close and pretty dang fast mixed with a slow reducer and use 2-3coats
When im doing a resto or if customer wants a better deeper shine I like the spi universal I also reduce this just not as much 3-6 coats slow-medium reducer.
Car lot jobs (I hate they always want something for nothing) so I get this clear called kamo klear its $65 a kit it's ok and had little dry back but i reduce it by 25-30% haha also with a slow reducer, it lays out ok and for the money it's not so bad. 2-3 coats much more and it likes to get frisky i spray this close and fast!
As far as paints I have a hook up with aev (American emergency vehicles) and at the moment I'm drawing a blank on the name brand, but it's decent and blends good. As for the cheaper stuff I painted a full silverado with nason with a half gallon reduced to a full gallon and about 90% of a gallon of finish 1 but watch reducing to much with pearls and metallics as it will stand up with ya pretty good.
Napas cheap stuff is like **** paint and never matches and takes a lot more to cover their "better" is below average to me I honestly think it's just an unreduced version. I'd steer clear of them unless your painting in solid colors or want to spend a lot of time laying your color down on awhole car.
Shermin willams is good paint but they are proud of it, great coverage.
Here's a 97 tacoma I did body work fab work (yes that's a darn ford ranger step side bed on it) an paint for a car lot down in lenior just laid color on it today. So I mixed up some blue (aev paint) with a lot of pearl and the cheap kamo klear 3 coats worth.
I use a Matco 1.3 tip, dot forget shop towels a decent wax&grease remover such as dx330 and tack rags. Watch ur flash times and do some test runs before going all out.
05-25-2016, 12:57 PM
