yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Hey guys,

I'm getting around to planning my brake up grade. I've got the stock 4-wheel disk single piston caliper brake setup on my car. I drive my car on the street and have some fun on the local back roads but, I'm not road racing my car so I don't need an extreme brake set up.

At the same time the stock 10.5'' brakes fade fast and I'd like an upgrade. Would I be better off considering the PBR style brakes in the rear and the 1LE or LS1 set up in the front?

I've seen a lot of guys having positive results with the LS kits from big brake upgrade. If I went that route would I have to change the proportioning valve or would I still have safe brakes with what I have now.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Try it and see. Might be OK as-is; might not.

You'd get an equally amazing improvement if you got rid of those no-workie crap rear brakes these cars got from 82-88 and put the 89-up setup on there instead. Just for the halibut, put the rear of the car up on jack stands, crank it up, put it in gear, and see if the rears can even hold the wheels from rotating at idle. I'd almost bet they won't even have that much nads. Those things are WORTHLESS, do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER, nothing but dead unsprung weight most of the time.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the advice. Ha ha yeah I agree the stock rear brakes don't hold the rear tires in place at all. I've learned not to park on hills with a steep slope. It's very un-nerving when the car creeps forward after setting the parking brake in place. I've even parked on a relatively flat drive way before at my buddies house and car creeped back a little. I know it's hell on the parking prawl in the trans when that happens.

I'm guessing that the '89-up cars with PBR brakes got another proportioning valve for that set up. Rears could take and hold more line pressure than with the single piston set up I've got now.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That is correct; the PBRs in at least acoupla of the later years, 91-92 IIRC, came with the same one as drums, because the hydraulic requirements of the 2 systems are pretty similar. The older ones needed a significantly different PV.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

There's no single combination valve that fits all applications; instead there's a combination valve for each of the three braking applications: disc/drum, disc/standard disc, and disc/1LE. Different part numbers for each valve and so on. Best bet for best braking performance is the correct valve for your application. Or an adjustable.

There's more in the following link concerning master cylinders and combination valves:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-10-bolts.html

JamesC

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Thanks. I'll have to do some research and see whats best for my application. Looks like the LS parts would be cheaper than the 1LE brake parts would. Most auto parts stores would have them in stock.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Single biggest advantage of the LS1 setup over the 1LE IMO. Long-term easy maintainability.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I agree 100%. The 1LE set up is nice but, all the parts are expensive compared to the LS 4th gen components.

SSBC has a kit that is basically the 1LE set up and it's around $1,200 bucks.
http://ssbrakes.com/i-10092298-disc-...or-a123-2.html

The big brake up grade is significantly less at $685.
http://bigbrakeupgrade.com/ls1_complete.html

paul_huryk

13" is the sweet spot for front brake systems - 3rd gen or not. Whether it be an LS1 system or a Brembo 4 piston kit - you can get world class braking with a 3rd gen and no ABS. And some kits fit under some 16" OEM wheels - so you don't necessarily need to upgrade the wheels at the same time.

Some may say it's not necessary, but 135ft+ 60 to 0 braking (good for the era) is at least 30 feet more (2+ car lengths) than even a basic 13" kit can give you. Considering the cost of upgrading OEM 10.5" front brakes with the best rotors, pads, hoses, and calipers - for a few dollars more you can get serious stopping.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Thanks. I'll have to check on the fitment. I was just under the impression that most kits that were bigger than 12'' would require a wheel change.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Most of the itty bitty OE 16" wheels will actually fit over modern brakes. The GTA ones in particular everybody says will not, but most others will.

Not sure why anybody would want to keep those tiny little things that you can't really buy tires for any more anyway, if they're looking for "performance"... everything about that part of a car has MOVED ON so much in the last 30 years that our OE stuff is all laughably non-competitive. Just like the brakes and TPI. Plan on getting some decent wheels.

paul_huryk

True and true...

But there are quite of few people that would rather sacrifice their 1st born than move up from OEM 16" wheels and 245-50-17 tires. Too many gripes about lack of availability is tiring.

Performance requires grip, which needs a wider tire to achieve. The upgrade to a 275-40-17 (or 275-35-18) is a huge one from a 245-50-16.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Yes that's very true. I like the look of the stock wheels and for what I'm doing they will work just fine. With my primary focus on street driving the stock wheel and tire set up should be sufficient. My goal with my car is to do some upgrades but leave most of the interior and exterior stock.

Modifying these cars is relatively easy. These cars still handle well even by todays standards. Ha ha the biggest problem is dealing with other people that can't drive or can't handle what they have. Knowing how to properly drive what you have is just as important as having the right car to start testing the limits.

mk1431

get a adj Proportioning Valve easy fix and dial in more rear brake to your liking plus you can turn the **** for no rear brake for hella burnouts no brake damage win win

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That won't fix the miniature baby-sized 10" rotors, or the calipers that SUCK.

There's more to life than "hella burnouts". Some of us actually like to have brakes that STOP THE CAR.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I emailed Scott and he got back to me fast. He's great and really knows what he's talking about. I asked him about the prop valve and this is what he said:

"I would leave your stock one. The prop valve just meters the rear pressure and volume so no change would be required with just the front swap. The LS1 kit does have a larger piston displacement than the stock 88 system, so you would have a slight increase in pedal travel however braking force is greatly increased with the bonus of less input pressure needed from the pedal. The LS1 brakes are much more sensitive to pedal pressure than the stock ones, so they give you instant control over braking compared to what you have on there now."

Lol I'm not looking for burnouts - that's hell on rear ends and hell on tires and the hit your wallet takes to them isn't what I'm after either. Just would like some decent brakes that won't fade like the stockers do and perform better all the way around. When I upgrade the rear brakes I'll probably look in to getting an '89-up prop valve or an adjustable one.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

JamesC

mk1431

it's not the 10" brakes or calipers "that suck" you'd be amazed at how good a car can stop when you get rid of the 80-20 brake bias cars are set up to push in the turns and lock up front brakes before the back so cars dont fishtail cause most drivers cant handle a car when the *** ends comes around i knocked 127 feet off my stopping distant when braking from 70mph by adding more rear brake 60/40 and still full control with my 10" rotors and crappy calipers