Adamki2000

Hi everyone, this is my first post to these forums. I am in the market for getting a third-gen Trans Am or Firebird for the immediate purpose of being a daily driver around town and the long-term purpose is to eventually convert it to a replica of KITT from Knight Rider. I did some research on these forums (and elsewhere on the interwebs) and found a little bit of information about upgrading the braking systems on these cars but what I'm really curious about is whether it's technically possible to install an ABS system. I know there were some older threads here from years past where it was stated that it should theoretically be possible but no one had seemed to have done it yet. So, has anyone here either done this themselves or know someone who has? I'm just curious what the technical challenges would be (disregarding cost) and if would even be worth it to explore this option. I know there are now options for putting in upgraded brakes (like from www.bigbrakeupgrade.com) and I almost certainly will do that but I'm wondering if I should go further. Thoughts?

novaderrik

why? antilock brakes are designed to allow people to not actually pay attention to what they are doing and maybe survive when they panic and hit the brakes too hard..

RBob

iTrader: (1)

From what I understand the Bosch 3-channel system is easy to retro-fit. Try a search using those terms and see what comes up. I haven't looked into it but do recall the 3-channel systems being mentioned.

RBob.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Don't know if this is one of the theoretical threads you found, but I'll post it in case you haven't.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...-possible.html

Ron U.S.M.C.

Type into a Google search "the truth about anti-lock brakes" and similar searches before spending a dime on one.
Short version = People are dyeing because of them.

plum92_camaro

Mark Stielow put anti lock brakes in his camaros.

http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/...vrolet-camaro/

I like a car I control myself but I also have never raced a antilock car. My buddy's ZL1 has nannies that individually control each brake to help keep him under control around the corners of autoX.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I know the newer systems are getting better but I would never install it on my cars, esp the older versions. horrible.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What do you find attractive about the idea of downgrading your brakes to have, on all 4 wheels, the least braking that ANY ONE wheel has available? (i.e. for example one wheel is on ice but the other 3 are on pavement, therefore NO wheels have brakes NO MATTER how hard you try to make them)

Understanding the motivation for the desire of this downgrade might help us point you in a direction that will help you out.

novaderrik

that's not how ABS works... a properly functioning 3 channel system will modulate pressure to each front wheel individually and both rear wheels together. the sensors tell the module how fast each wheel is spinning, and kicks in if it sees one sensor going significantly slower than the other to reduce pressure to that wheel.. it doesn't knock down pressure to all of the channels equally: it does them individually to theoretically keep each wheel working as hard as it can.

a 4 channel system is the same, but has a sensor for each rear wheel..

i agree that it's a waste of time and money to adapt it to these cars, but at least know how it operates so you can have an educated opinion on it.

Ron U.S.M.C.

Here you go. = http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...er-risk-by-51/
I did a ton of research on them when my sister bought a car that had them.
Her's can be disabled by pulling a fuse and the car will break normally . It's a built in safety feature that's harmless.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Baha.

My 2012 doesn't even work that way. I've slid nearly all the way across a f'n intersection when ABS decided to tell my foot to **** off because one tire hit something slippery.

-- Joe

novaderrik

then you should take it in and get it looked at, because that's definitely not how it's supposed to work.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

We own 7 vehicles. My wife and I alternate between a new daily driver every 2 years. Mine is a 2012, hers is a 2014.

I doubt every vehicle I've bought new since the 90s has had fault abs. Statistically speaking that would be impossible. Yet they all drive the same way.

-- Joe

Formula 305

If ABS only cut pressure to one wheel it would create an uneven braking force, which would make the car pull hard every time the ABS kicks in, which would be just as or more dangerous than locking a wheel & skidding.

Companies would NEVER do that, it'd be more dangers than no ABS at all, cars would be pulling themselves into ditches or traffic whenever ABS kicked on. That is if it only created a pulling affect, under the right circumstances this same phenomena could easily spin a car, 2 or 3 tires on ice, one catches blacktop & catches HARD, next thing you know your spinning down the roadway....

scooter

iTrader: (11)

One thing you are failing to think about is that when your wheels are locked up, you have no control of the car in any direction. Also the ABS does function mostly like novaderrik suggests, it doesn't cut out the pressure of one completely, it modulates it so you get the most out of what traction you have to work with. They are not flawless, they are designed, programmed and made by man, but they do a job because most people are not capable of making decisions in an emergency situation. Most people are, in my opinion, too stupid to drive cars and things like ABS are for those people.

And in retort to the naysayers, Stielo put it in his last cars and he did better in the brake challenge than any of the other people at OUSCI without ABS from what I remember being there, it isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Marks Stielow is/was an engineer working for GM. This is what he did/does for a living. The OUSCI is a straight line, clear weather, clean, clear, dry pavement competition. That's where ABS performs best, and has the least drawbacks. Not at all like all weather, public road conditions.

Apples. Oranges.

I've had ABS screw me once. But that is also when I was screwing around on snow and WANTED the tires to lock up and slide sideways, but didn't. I think too many people think ABS will save them and WAY overdrive the conditions into a crash. Beyond that, my unscientific opinion is; for 99% of uses, ABS is beneficial.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I got into a (less than) 5mph sideways slide on ice due to a gust of wind. It put me into the side of another car.
I couldn't drive out of it because the traction control wouldn't let me spin the tires like it should have and the brakes were useless.
I have since figured out that if I pull the E-brake up 1 click, it deactivates the traction control. How stupid is that?

paul_huryk

If you are thinking ABS is going to drop your stopping distances on dry, warm pavement - it won't. Works great in wet/slippery/hard turning braking as it is meant to.

Yes you can retrofit ABS, but will the system be a basic-style one from the early years or will it be the advanced systems available today - big difference. Not sure if it is worth it, even if you have the skills and knowledge to do it yourself.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

How is your Kitt replica comming along?

palric

iTrader: (1)

too broad a statement

ABS will certainly stop you in shorter distances on dry, warm pavement. Especially after repeat efforts when fade and heat impact the system.

palric

iTrader: (1)

I read the article. They use non-specific words in key junctures for example "tend to", "potentially" and "may". These are evasive and non-binding.

The most recent date presented in the article is 1999. It is 2015. New ABS systems are light years ahead of old.

The writer makes fact based conclusions from marginal data that is not supported through additional links in the document. As a result the reader cannot view the facts independently from the writer and cannot effectively measure his conclusions.

The conclusion ("ABS can kill") is not substantiated with essential fact necessary to support the claim.

Also should note anti-tampering clauses exist in the fine print of most auto insurance policies. Turning off your ABS could result in your insurance company turning off your insurance...

.

Streetstuff

^You a lawyer or something? Your rebuttal of the article was well thought out and organized. I am impressed.

paul_huryk

That is not necessarily true - ABS (even the most recent, advanced ones) kicks in at times when it is not needed, just like traction control. Ever accelerate and come across a manhole cover that trips the TC - same thing for ABS.

Now if your car is way overbraked for the tires it is running, it may be closer to optimal than your foot and gut. A lot of high priced, high powered exotic cars need advanced ABS to be easily driveable (TC also).

ABS by itself cannot drop stopping distances, same goes for ceramic brake rotors, that is a function of braking power, braking modulation, and tires.

palric

iTrader: (1)

Thx for the compliment

Nope, I am not a lawyer.

palric

iTrader: (1)

I think we can agree to disagree.

Best regards.