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Carburetors Carb discussion and questions. Upgrading your Third Gen's carburetor, swapping TBI to carburetor, or TPI to carburetor? Need LG4 or H.O. info? Post it here.

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Old 10-02-2006, 02:48 PM   #1
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carb adjustments

i have a q-jet carb and i have no throttle response wut can i adjust to get more responds or power
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86' Trans Am- 85 LG4 with 77 non cc qjet elderbrock intake manifold...hedman headers( shorty style)..3" piping flowmaster 80 series..no emissions...4thgen center console..restored interior..2400watt system..700r4 with 2200 stall and corvette servo, shift kit..2.73 Posi..Torque Thrust II's.. FINALLY building my first 350

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Old 10-02-2006, 03:15 PM   #2
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First, you need to know that everything is working the way it is supposed to work. Starting with the ignition. If things are not working properly, no amount of adjusting is going to help anything. 9 times out of 10, it isn't the carb's fault.

(Your post has been edited for bypassing the Board word filter, which is a violation of Board rules of conduct.)
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:16 PM   #3
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sorry for using that word but it doesnt feel like the secondaries are opening and if i rev it in park to like 4 grand the still dont open wut can it be
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:02 PM   #4
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You'll see very little if any secondary air valve opening if the engine is revved high without a load, ie; in park or neutral.

If it hasn't been messed with,the carb that is, then either you have the secondary lockout cam preventing the secondaries from opening or you don't have full throttle opening from the throttle cable.

Click the image to open in full size.

The secondaries on a q-jet are extremely simply in thier operation.

...

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Old 10-02-2006, 07:15 PM   #5
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thanks man ill look 2morrow but if the throttle cable is not going to full throttle wut do i do
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:15 PM   #6
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That secondary lockout cam locks out the use of the secondaries when the car is cold. Keeps idiots from redlining a cold motor.
Once the car is warm, make sure the lockout tang is not interfering with the secondary throttle shaft (like it is in that picture).

Also, yes, you won't be able to get the secondaries to open while watching it. In fact, you will probably never see the air valve open naturally. Like you will never see a piston moving naturally eh?

Try explaining the problem better. What happens, when does it happen, how do you KNOW it's happening, when did this problem start happening, etc etc.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:24 PM   #7
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k when ever i go to full throttle from a stop it doesnt really move at al no chrip nothing and if im at a roll and i floor it it sometimes down shifts (just rebuilt the tranny 2 weeks ago) or it boggs badddd it almost stalls....and when i floor it to pass some one it goes about the same speed the rpms dont move...and whenever i go from 1st to second on the slap and shift at like 3500 it boggs...all i no its not supost to be that slow cuz my friends got a stock 86 z28 lg4 like mine and its way faster
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:29 PM   #8
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k, everything stock under the hood? stock cc q-jet, stock distributor, etc etc?

-With the motor nice and warmed up, check your timing at idle. Pull the EST, and check it. Plug it back in, recheck it.

-with the car in park, idlling, give it a quick rev - does it bog? black smoke out the tail pipe? Any error codes?

-shut it off. Look down the primaries, push on the acc pump, do you see twin squirts?

none of the problems listed sound like secondary problems, more like acc pump problems.
oh, and check your secondary air valve tension. With motor off, try to push down on the secondary air valve with your pinky. Should take about 1lb of force maybe to open it. And should snap back shut. If it flops open, it needs adjustment.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:34 PM   #9
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the error codes r all over cuz i took all the emisions off and it doesnt bog when i give it a quick tap but it smokes a lil.. and im new at all this wut is a est and acc and where is it located
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:37 PM   #10
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whoaaaaaaaaaa!


triangle of death triangle of death!!!!!!!!!!!

k, second - what do you mean you took off the emissions?
did you remove the ecm and are still trying to run your auto trans, cc distributor and cc carb?
Yea, I tried that for 6 days... 5mph didn't do it for me...
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:43 PM   #11
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well the ecm is still the the stock distributer and cc carb and everthing i took all the hose and that big cylinder off on the opposite side of the batt and sealed all the vacuum hoses. but i thew it all away cuz i want to get rid of the ecm and everything to make it all vacuum advanced lke in the 60s and 70s
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:50 PM   #12
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Well you need your ECM, O2 sensor in the exhaust, cc distributor, and cc carb (along with that trans) to all be setup to work in harmony.
The cylinder I think you're talking about is the charcoal canister.

If you're going to ditch the ECM and go vacuum and manual controlled, get the non-cc carb, and non -cc dist. Otherwise you'll need that ECM to control your timing.

Does your carb have all 3 electrical connections on it, connected to stuff?
And your check engine light is functional?
And you have an O2 sensor in your headers?
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:54 PM   #13
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it has all 3 connections but i dont no if there all connected i dont have o2 sensors (should i get them) and the check engine lights bin on since i got the car 4 years ago
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:59 PM   #14
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ok, check engine actually means something eh?

What're you saying explains all the sympoms you're having. It probably gets real crappy mileage eh?

ok, decide right now if you're going to use cc or not.

CC means you need some of those systems working, and some you can skip. I'm not sure if you need the charcoal canister, I don't think so. You do need an O2 sensor though, and you need to have all 3 connections on your carb hooked up, working right, and adjusted right.

If you're not going to go that route (florida- legal to go to non-cc there?), then you need a new carb, new distributor, and some method of controlling your trannys lockup function.
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:05 PM   #15
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k i do get really really bad gas milage and i wanna go all vacuum adv. but someone told me i can leave the ecm just for the tranny without lockup and florida has no inspection so i can do anything and isnt the distributer already vacuum advanced it has the lil dome on it.. all i really want is to go faster i got a friend with a stock 92 hatch (civic) that keeps up with me hes like a half a car behind me lol

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Old 10-03-2006, 10:58 PM   #16
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Yea, the black puff of smoke, lazy acceleration, and bad mileage are all screaming the same problem.

I'm not sure if you can keep the ECM for tranny lockup only. For some reason I think you can't. You can however get a gizmo from TCI I think, which can control it. It's about $150 I think. Make a post in the tranny forum on this perhaps.

ok, your stock distributor does not have a vacuum can on it. So if you have the "little dome" on the side (silver colored?) Then it's a vacuum advance unit. Again, if not matched to the carb, then that's a problem.

ok, so where you're at now, I think getting a non-cc q-jet, and some way to lockup the T&C, and tuning it - is probably your best bet.

Now, if you can, get a picture of your distributor, and a pic of the carb (with the air cleaner off). Like a view from the top right, so we can see the whole thing.

Then we can help you make up a parts list of what you need to get. Going to a non-cc q-jet keeps things on the cheap.

Looks like you've done a fair bit on that car, new interior, new quarter panel, etc etc... Slick car, I always like that shade of blue too. Now you need the "go" to match it, and blow away that mustang.
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:09 PM   #17
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thanks for all the help... ill have a pic up tomorrow of the carb and distributior...yea my dad says ill never beat him..and the non cc q-jet is a good carb..its better then a elderbrock performer series... what about the intake do you have to change that to people say get the elderbrock rpm air gap
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:22 PM   #18
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The non-cc q-jet is a good solid carb. I'm running one. It's nice, so much adjustability (double edged sword, it's complicated...)... But I get normal carbureted street manners, with hot 350 power.

I wouldn't worry about upgrades just yet. Just get it tuned up **perfectly**, then you'd be surprised at how fast it is.
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:25 PM   #19
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so your saying get a non cc q-jet,intake,distributor and a lockup kit and get it tuned and ill be suprised at what a 305 can do lol
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:36 PM   #20
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oo yea,by the way i got rid of the triangle of death lol i got a nice 14x3 holley air cleaner after i heard wut it does
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:36 PM   #21
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That's right. None of that lol now Go and look on the organized drag racing board. Mwnova had some pretty spectacular results with minor addons to his 305. Five7 did pretty good with his LG4. Many others as well.

oh, and no, I wouldn't bother with the intake. If you've got an extra $112 in your pocket, sure, you can. But it won't give you much, if any, HP right now.

But if you can, post a pic of your engine bay (carb) first, just to be sure. I recommend the q-jet since you can get it at the junkyard for cheeeep. If you have money burning holes in your pocket, you can get a holley or edelbrock (but make sure it'll mate with your intake manifold first). The q-jet will fit, and will be cheapest.
The distributor - I went with a junkyard unit. But after shimming it, and putting an adjustable timing can on it, now wondering if I should upgrade the coil and module - it would have made more sense to just get a new one. A basic one is about $130, plus it's new and shiny!
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:41 PM   #22
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ya ill definitly post a picture tomorrow and ill see what my budget is and thants for all your help
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:45 PM   #23
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oo one more question what cars/trucks can i get a non cc q-jet from same with distributor....here are some pictures of the carb and distributor tell me if you need a better picture
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMAG0092.JPG (64.0 KB, 49 views)

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Old 10-04-2006, 10:17 PM   #24
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ttt
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:12 PM   #25
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huh, didn't get an email for this...

ok, so you've got the vaccum advance distributor, that's good. But that's definately a cc-qjet, and it won't play well with that cc-dist. (as far as I know....)

sources for a q-jet:
best bet would be the closest application in the jy, luckily, zillions of vehicles got LG4's
-monte carlos (make sure it doesn't have the 2 electrical connections
-caprice
-cutlass (what I used)
-... well, you get the idea here. Look for any '80-'88 GM with an LG4. A DIRTY carb is a good carb, 'cuz it hasn't been messed with. A clean one is ok too Avoid any with a tag on it that says "rebuilt by joe's hack shop, 123 west schmuck street", or any with pieces missing, obvious rust/corrosion etc etc. (grease and grime prevents rust, but it's easier to remove, hence why I suggested it.)

You have a timing light? buy one if you don't.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:18 AM   #26
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i have a timing light but i dont no how to use it
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonix View Post
ok, check engine actually means something eh?
.
the motor was swaped out of a 85 before i bought it sorry i didnt mention that some mexican that couldnt even speak engilsh did it so that y the lights always on he try to tell us that
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:31 PM   #28
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ok, the timing light should have two clamps, a positive and a negative, for power, then a clamp that goes over your plug wire.

Hook up the clamps for power, to your battery. Have the engine warmed up and idling here. Trace the wire from your #1 spark plug, back to your distributor. You can clamp the timing light clamp anywhere onto that cable. Find a place that's easy to get to (usually at the distributor), and clamp on.
Your timing light will start doing it's strobe light thing. Shine it down right behind the water pump, point it at the harmonic balancer. It should like up through the timing grooves, and light up a line on the balancer. Loosen the bolt holding your distributor down (just loosen it a bit!), then rotate the distributor while shining the light down. you'll notice the line on the balancer moves in reference to the grooves.
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~jmknopp...ming%20tab.jpg
Try to put it at about 8* BTDC.
Reset your idle speed if it's changed much. oh, disconnect the vacuum line going to the distributor vacuum advance can while you do this. Disconnect it and plug it.
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:26 PM   #29
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[quote=Sonix;3082009]huh, didn't get an email for this...

ok, so you've got the vaccum advance distributor, that's good. But that's definately a cc-qjet, and it won't play well with that cc-dist. A so do have a cc dist or no
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:47 PM   #30
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That post didn't make any sense xgtharo.

You do NOT have a computer controlled distributor though, I think that's what you're asking. The little metal "bulb" on it is it's vacuum advance unit, and that means it's non-computer controlled.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:02 AM   #31
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i forgot to put the other end of the quote in but u got it
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:02 PM   #32
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is this a good carb its a replacement for the q-jet Holley Model 4175 Carburetors: HLY-0-80555C - summitracing.com
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:23 PM   #33
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I wouldn't consider it to be. However, since you already have a mechanical/vacuum advance distributor, you're halfway there. It's a vacuum secondary carb - yuck. But, it does have an electric choke, and the mechanical secondary version of their q-jet replacement is set up for divorced choke, so it may be an okay choice. Figure on about a 50/50 probability of having to do some tuning (jets, primarily).
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Old 10-06-2006, 02:12 PM   #34
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Pay $300 to lose 100cfm, yea, sounds like a deal to me... ?

A holley would be a nice upgrade, but you'd need an adapter plate on your intake, or a different intake manifold. bringing the cost up again.

You can't avoid the problem and hope it goes away. set your timing, then go from there as far as carb tuning goes.
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Old 10-06-2006, 02:45 PM   #35
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ok so i did the timing just now to wut u said i got the tire to chrip from a start so its better and i got more pick up it was sooooooo off and the vacuum advance wasnt even hooked up(so hooked it up)..... so wut do i do next the carb tuning but where are the things to tune...the car still does the bogging i can kind of explain it better now when i go to WOT at a start and hit second about mid way the whole car starts to rock back and forth really bad as if i was to sit in first and hit the gas on and off what could that be the fuel filter clogged?.. you guys have bin a HUGE help thanks.....here are two carbs i think you want me to get JET Streetmaster Quadrajet Stage 2 Carburetors: JET-35002 - summitracing.comand Summit Remanufactured Quadrajet Carburetors: SUM-210216 - summitracing.com i think the first one is better

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Old 10-06-2006, 03:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonix View Post
Pay $300 to lose 100cfm, yea, sounds like a deal to me... ?
That engine doesn't need more than 650.

Quote:
A holley would be a nice upgrade, but you'd need an adapter plate on your intake, or a different intake manifold. bringing the cost up again.
The Holley he linked is a 4175 spreadbore q-jet replacement.
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Old 10-06-2006, 04:20 PM   #37
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No, it may not need more than 650CFM... *now*.
yes, but I meant a "typical" holley, like a squarebore mechanical secondaries..

Yea, your timing is good now, but you still have a cc-qjet right? So there's no amount of tuning you can do to fix that.
You can either get one from the JY (a non-cc style), for about $30, and a $40 rebuild kit, or you can pay $300+ for a new one.
Your call.
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Old 10-06-2006, 04:51 PM   #38
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ya i got the cc carb still ill see how much i got and ill go to the jy soon
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Old 10-07-2006, 10:58 AM   #39
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how hard is it to swap carbs
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Old 10-07-2006, 11:49 PM   #40
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Excruciatingly easy.
Especially after all the work you've done on your car so far.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:24 PM   #41
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For carb tuning you should get a carb jet kit and jet removal tool. I belive it will cost about $60 dollars total and should be useful for getting a very precise tune. Also you said florida doesn't have any emmissions, have you gutted/removed the catalytic converter? That should give you like 2 hp and is free. Another thing make sure your car is well kept. I changed my spark plugs and wires to find my old ones were cracking and the plugs pretty much burnt and it woke up my car.

Another thing is im hoping you had your aircleaner still hooked up to the carb when you took those pictures otherwise somethings not where it should be. The bogging could be your fuel pump not giving your carb enough fuel when at wot.
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:46 PM   #42
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so today i went to the junkyard and went looking for the non cc carb and i went to a 84 berienetta for ***** and gigiles and it had the non cc carb and a preformer elderbrock intake i got it for 70 bucks and i was wondering if i need to put the gasket sealer on the new gaskets?
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86' Trans Am- 85 LG4 with 77 non cc qjet elderbrock intake manifold...hedman headers( shorty style)..3" piping flowmaster 80 series..no emissions...4thgen center console..restored interior..2400watt system..700r4 with 2200 stall and corvette servo, shift kit..2.73 Posi..Torque Thrust II's.. FINALLY building my first 350
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:54 PM   #43
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damn, nice score.
It had a non-cc q-jet on it? Weird, but if it was working ok on that 305, it should work ok on yours.
Yea, RTV sealer around the water ports (the front and back most square holes) on the intake gaskets. Use non hardening sealant on the intake manifold bolts.

Not sure if this presents any additional issues going to that intake manifold...

How's the carb look? Virgin? What # is stamped on it? 170xxxxx? What secondary hanger letter does it show, and what secondary rods are on it.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:01 PM   #44
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nice find im surprised it had both of those in that berlinetta.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:14 PM   #45
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ya i no i thought it was a v6 till my friend opened the hood....yes it is a non cc q-jet the top if the carb looks a lil burn but it was clean the car was just delivered and the whole 305 was in there the bottom of the carb is brand new same for the whole intake... the numbers are 170802042969,cpm and the secondery hanger says 58409... do i have to do anything special when i take the distributor out and put it in... does that stamped number tell me the year,etc
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:06 PM   #46
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am i really gunna see a big differance in the power and torque or no
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:46 PM   #47
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that's too many numbers I think.
17080 means it's from a 1980 vehicle.
The hanger # is wrong. It should have a letter stamped on it, like "L" or something. If you use a torx T8 screwdriver, you can remove it, and look at the secondary rods.
Now's the time to buy a torx bit set. One that goes from T8- T30 or so. You'll use T8, T15 (well, you've used that for the interior of your car.), T20 and T25.
You'll not have the bogging, so yea, big difference
the intake manifold might give you a few HP, nothing big.

mark where the rotor is pointing relative to the car. Usually you mark it's position on the intake, but since you're replacing that... Then just drop it back in in the same place, and leave all plug wires on the dist cap if you can.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:09 PM   #48
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it has a big A thanks for all the help
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:12 PM   #49
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A ?
Whoa, wanna trade that up here? That's the richest hanger there is... I think you'll find it's overkill for your setup, but whatever, give it a shot first.
You can use the hanger and rods from your cc carb as well, they're interchangeable.
Anyway, swap the stuff on and post back on how it's worked for ya.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:17 PM   #50
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what do i need the torx set for
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