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Old 02-23-2011, 12:33 AM   #1
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Removing computer controlled carb system

Ok here is what i got looking for some advice. I have an 83 z28 with a factory 305 with 48,000 miles on it this car is just about perfect except the prevous owner pulled the motor cause it had a blown head gasket why they pulled the whole motor who knows? Long story short i bought this car as kind of a basket case i replaced all the seals and gaskest in this motor my question is the carb is junk it is a computer controlled q-jet and most of the a.i.r. pipes are missing I got a 6al box with the car and i want to put a regular carb on this thing. Wondering if i can plug the holes in the manifolds for the air pipes pull all the other crap off for the a.i.r. system and block off the egr. Then put a 500-600 cfm carb on wire in the 6al box. Do you think this motor will run ok or should i get a different intake and manifolds? Any advice would be great thanks guys!
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:21 AM   #2
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

I have an 82 Camaro. Mine came with the CC Q-jet originally. When i bought it, it had an Edelbrock 600 CFM on it. It runs fine with that carb. The intake is bone stock. I did have to change the Distributer to a Vacuum Advance though.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:44 AM   #3
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

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Any advice would be great thanks guys!
Rebuild the original CCC carb. You gain no performance by swapping to a non CCC carb ( especially an Edelbroke ) and lose gas milage.

Ditching the AIR system is a good idea. Yes you can plug the manifold holes. Ditching the EGR valve does nothing for you though. The MSD box isn't going to do anything for you either.

Unless you're going crazy with a radical engine build, it's a waste of time and money ditching the computer. Their's just no point to it. The computer is your friend, not your enemy. Ditching the computer in an attempt to gain drivability and/or better performance is futile.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:34 AM   #4
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

You can't just swap the carb itself anyway. If you remove the cc carb, then you have to replace the cc distributor with a vac advanced distributor.

If the car is a automatic, then you also need a method of locking the torque converter, and you'll need a geometry corrector for the TV cable.

Much much better to stick with the computer controlled setup - better performance, better mileage.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:36 PM   #5
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First, welcome aboard thirdgen.org.

Now, unless you get a Holley 4165 or 4175 carb, you are going to have to either replace the intake manifold, or use a spreadbore to squarebore adapter, in order to mount an aftermarket carb.

Just to be clear, are you saying your carb is junk because it is a computer controlled q-jet, or are you saying your computer controlled q-jet is junk? They are very different things. If you think the former, then you need to rethink - it just happens to be the best street/performance carb available at any price. If the latter, you may be better off using it as a core when buying a rebuilt computer controlled q-jet, since the computer controlled q-jet is the best street/performance carb available at any price.

In case there is any doubt, you can run a computer controlled q-jet without A.I.R. or EGR (it just isn't emissions legal to do so on a car driven on public roads in the U.S.).
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:12 PM   #6
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

I have to agree.its old,just rebuild or have someone who knows do it fix the lines and all will be well.Running that set-up for 25 years now(stock motor) and other then one rebuild/cleaning never a problem.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:50 PM   #7
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

Thanks for the response guys. I was not saying the carb is junk always liked q-jets it is in really bad shape it sat for a long time before i got it and i don't think i am going to have much luck rebuilding it. A new cc carb is very expensive so i am just trying to find a cost effective solution. Unless someone knows where i can get a reman for a good price?
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:55 PM   #8
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

Your cost effective solution is to rebuild the Quad. Just like that guy that's in all the Adam Sandler movies says............... "You can do it".
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:44 AM   #9
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You can get a rebuilt from high-feedback eBay sources for around $250. If you're not comfortable with eBay, O'Reilly has one for $400 (not including core charge). Even $400 is less than you'll pay to convert to something else (assuming you buy new parts).
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:42 AM   #10
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

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it is in really bad shape it sat for a long time before i got it and i don't think i am going to have much luck rebuilding it.
Don't sell yourself short. These things aren't that hard to do.

When I first got my car, I decided to get my CCC carb rebuilt. I didn't know a thing about them at the time, so I took it to this guy who was supposed to be this Q-jet guru. $350 later, I get the carb back and notice a bunch of stuff wrong. Returned it and he 'fixed' these problems. Carb never ran right.

I had enough and opened it up myself. I was suprised how little there really is to these things! I found a bunch of other issues and fixed them myself easily. I couldn't believe this carb guru did such a crappy job and I myself with no CCC carb experience was able to easily fix everything.

IMO, one of the greatest things about keeping your original carb ( and other OEM stuff ) is the fact you can get a service manual and follow all the tuning/rebuilding/adjustment specs and know the book won't steer you wrong. It's alot easier for a beginner to learn about their car when you have a car that isn't butchered up and a good service manual that gives details on how to do everything.

If you really want to take your carb to someone else and get it back in a reasonable time, talk to Sean Murphy Induction ( SMI ). They do CCC carbs.

Also remember you can just get another used but well running CCC carb to replace yours too. I'm sure plenty of guys here have a few good spares they can part with for cheap.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:43 AM   #11
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

Ok guys i am going to rebuild the carb. Its asking if its a E4ME OR A M4ME numbers on the carb are17083204 1463 FRB. I can only assume the E4ME is what i have but not sure is the E for computer and the M for no computer control? Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-12-2011, 04:35 AM   #12
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

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Ok guys i am going to rebuild the carb. Its asking if its a E4ME OR A M4ME numbers on the carb are17083204 1463 FRB. I can only assume the E4ME is what i have but not sure is the E for computer and the M for no computer control? Thanks for the help.
Yes, you have E4ME. E= electronic, M= mechanical.

I think you're making a wise decision sticking with the CCC system for your car. Just ask as many questions as you need too, don't be in a hurry to get it done ( because you might miss something ), and make sure you read the sticky's and do as much reading as you can on the subject so you know what you're doing.

Good luck.
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:40 AM   #13
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

need any help or pieces/parts let me know

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ca...-ccc-qjet.html
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:13 PM   #14
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

Wow thanks guys I will let you know if i have questions thanks again!!
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:18 PM   #15
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

I did it fired right up with high idle and all! Thanks guys for all the help! Wondering does anyone have a vacum hose routing diagram of any sorts can't find one in the book and i have removed all of the AIR crap and have lots of hoses? Thanks in advance!!
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:48 PM   #16
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

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I did it fired right up with high idle and all! Thanks guys for all the help! Wondering does anyone have a vacum hose routing diagram of any sorts can't find one in the book and i have removed all of the AIR crap and have lots of hoses? Thanks in advance!!
I do not have a vac diagram, but just wanted to give you a thums up for your work!
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:58 PM   #17
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

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Unless you're going crazy with a radical engine build, it's a waste of time and money ditching the computer. Their's just no point to it. The computer is your friend, not your enemy. Ditching the computer in an attempt to gain drivability and/or better performance is futile.
Not to play the devil's advocate or any thing, but I gained both performance and MPG when I ditched my CC quad for a Holley 4160 and a vacuum advance distributor. The carb was $200, Distributor $85 (Mallory vacuum advance HEI), and intake was $65 (used Edelbrock Performer RPM from Craigs).

Why? Well, when I bought the car it was always running rich and horribly sluggish, which I figured was because the ECM never went out of open loop mode. To get the ECM the info it needs to go to closed loop mode I would have had to figure out what sensor/s were not working and replace them. Kind of like a shot in the dark until I found the correct sensor.

There are a myriad of sensors. Coolant temp sensor, TPS, VSS, baro sensor, vacuum sensor, throttle kicker relay, fast idle solenoid etc. To further compound issues, my car had the wrong speedometer gears in the tranny so I couldn't rely on the VSS any way. What effect would that have had on MPG? who knows?!

To this day I have not been able to figure out if the emissions related sensors/valves ie, air diverter valve, air select valve and EGR solenoid have anything to do with preventing the ECM from going into closed loop.

Also, using a timing light I verified that my stock electronic spark timing distributor wasn't doing jack for timing advance. I couldn't be sure if this was because the car was in open loop or if it ran sluggish because of the lack of timing advance. New EST distributors are not cheap.

Then I ran into threads and posts where people had replaced every possible sensor to get their CC quad running right only to reach the conclusion that the ECM was shot. New ECMs are not cheap either. The point being, it's not an easy system to understand and troubleshoot.

If you have any plans for the more common performance upgrades, like headers, exhaust, intake, and maybe a cam, I'm not sure the ECM will be able to cope with the new operating parameters and might just revert back to open loop, running rich, and negating the effects of your upgrades anyway.

For me it was just easier to spend 350 and convert it over to a much simpler system that I can wrap my head around. Plus it was cheaper than trying to get the quad rebuilt, and blindly replacing sensors, tracing wires, repairing broken connectors, chasing down bad grounds, and what not.

Last edited by oamhmad; 04-16-2011 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:05 PM   #18
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

You mentioned not having vacuum lines hooked up. There are a lot of them to keep track of with a CC quad setup. Another reason to switch over to non CC. Keep everything simple and reduce potential points of failure. Google vacuum hose routing diagram for your car if u need it

Last edited by oamhmad; 04-16-2011 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:39 PM   #19
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

My car is going to remain a daily driver so I decided to kept all the vacuum hoses and sensors. Learning how it works has been a cheap hobby and the principles basically apply to other carb'ed cars. Good luck!

Here are the vacuum diagrams: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/fa...-diagrams.html
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:49 PM   #20
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

Thanks Scooter i know fuel injection very well i don't think this cc carb setup will be to tough. Thanks again!
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:00 PM   #21
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

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Not to play the devil's advocate or any thing, but I gained both performance and MPG when I ditched my CC quad for a Holley 4160 and a vacuum advance distributor. The carb was $200, Distributor $85 (Mallory vacuum advance HEI), and intake was $65 (used Edelbrock Performer RPM from Craigs).

Why? Well, when I bought the car it was always running rich and horribly sluggish, which I figured was because the ECM never went out of open loop mode. To get the ECM the info it needs to go to closed loop mode I would have had to figure out what sensor/s were not working and replace them. Kind of like a shot in the dark until I found the correct sensor.

There are a myriad of sensors. Coolant temp sensor, TPS, VSS, baro sensor, vacuum sensor, throttle kicker relay, fast idle solenoid etc. To further compound issues, my car had the wrong speedometer gears in the tranny so I couldn't rely on the VSS any way. What effect would that have had on MPG? who knows?!

To this day I have not been able to figure out if the emissions related sensors/valves ie, air diverter valve, air select valve and EGR solenoid have anything to do with preventing the ECM from going into closed loop.

Also, using a timing light I verified that my stock electronic spark timing distributor wasn't doing jack for timing advance. I couldn't be sure if this was because the car was in open loop or if it ran sluggish because of the lack of timing advance. New EST distributors are not cheap.

Then I ran into threads and posts where people had replaced every possible sensor to get their CC quad running right only to reach the conclusion that the ECM was shot. New ECMs are not cheap either. The point being, it's not an easy system to understand and troubleshoot.

If you have any plans for the more common performance upgrades, like headers, exhaust, intake, and maybe a cam, I'm not sure the ECM will be able to cope with the new operating parameters and might just revert back to open loop, running rich, and negating the effects of your upgrades anyway.

For me it was just easier to spend 350 and convert it over to a much simpler system that I can wrap my head around. Plus it was cheaper than trying to get the quad rebuilt, and blindly replacing sensors, tracing wires, repairing broken connectors, chasing down bad grounds, and what not.
You are comparing apples to oranges if you compare a perfectly running/tuned non CCC setup to a poorly ( or non ) functioning CCC setup. Also keep in mind a stock CCC carb is calibrated for emmissions and not high performance. Just like you would for any other carb, to get the best performance out of the CCC carb, some mods could/should be done depending on application.

Throwing money at the issue by just replacing things that don't need replacing is not the correct method to fix anything. You need the proper tools and knowledge to properly diagnose what the problems are so they can be targeted and repaired. Chassis service manuals work great for this.

Adding headers, intake, exhaust and so on has NO effect on how the CCC stuff works. The only thing you need to do is make sure you have decent vacuum ( so no rediculously huge cams ) and keep the CR reasonably close to stock ( but you can easily exceed this ). For a typical daily up to a pretty 'hot' street car, the CCC works fine. These are facts that have been proven. No 'myths' here...

The CCC system doesn't require half of the garbage under the hood to run. Most of it you can toss if you really wanted it off.

You made no mention as to what codes you were throwing, which could've told you what your particular problem was. You shoul've had the proper speedo gear too whether it's for a CCC car or a non CCC car.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:54 PM   #22
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

I'll play 2nd devils advocate. I've had a similar experience as oamhmad. Trouble getting the cccqjet to run well on a mildly modded 350. Mine's not throwing any trouble codes either. My suspicion is possibly too lean on the idle/transition circuit. I did richen the secondaries and wide open, it runs pretty good. Probably could still use some secondary tuning but it makes good smooth power when floored (after the initial stumble).
Anyway, I'll make two points. 1) It's possible not all ccc qjets were manufactured exactly the same either due to design changes or manufacturing tolerances. 2) I called Sean Murphy and his opinion is that the ccc qjet is very sensitive to modifications.
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Old 04-30-2011, 02:09 PM   #23
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

five7kid and DoubleV own this thread - lotta good info in here!
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:43 AM   #24
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

If you are in need of the CC q-jet carb, I have the stock one off of my 86' trans am. It was rebuild about a year before I pulled it off. I have quite a few part from the smog system that I am throwing away.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:29 PM   #25
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Re: Removing computer controlled carb system

I was approached by a gurru who said he could give me 25 extra hp if I went mechanical. I was talked out of it by some of the techies here on TGO. I had my cc qjet rebuilt from a reputable mechanic, and it runs MUCH better. I am glad I stayed with the electronic system.
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