Camaro-3

Hi,
I bought a '84 Camaro Z28 shell without engine and transmission, but the body is mint! The body has a 305 with a carb before.

I want to find a completely stock 305 carb engine and a 4speed overdrive automatic transmission to fit with it, as cheap as possible (in a scrap yard for example).

I'm wondering what engine it is possible to fit if I change only the intake and carb for one from a 82-85 Camaro?

Is it possible to install a TBI 305 engine from a 90-91 pickup truck without changing cylinder head or too much bracket accessories?
Or I absolutely have to find a whole 305 engine from a Carb camaro? I absolutely want to stay with a carb 305 engine.

These old engines are really hard to find but there are many pickup truck 305 TBI engine that is possible to buy from 250-300$.

What about the transmission? Whch car and which years have the same 4 speed overdrive transmission than a 84 camaro?

midias

You can swap just about any in, the intake manifold is going to slightly change after 87 or so.
I would probably go with a roller motor for later modifications but I would also go for a 350 if I was doing the work.

Strictly carbed thirdgen motors the L69 is the way to go.

Camaro-3

The performance is not really important for me, I just want to have a clean stock retro camaro like there was in 80's on the road, simply to roll with the t-top off and to hear a V8 sound. And have low budget and simple modifications if it's cheaper for me to find a low mileage 305 (TBI or carb) from a later car or truck in the scrap yard.

If I have to only find a carb and intake from the 84 camaro and the engine accessories from other cars or pickup fit, it will be nice.
I'm wondering if there is a special hole on the 305 for the carb mechanical fuel pump that is not present on tbi 305's? What about flywheels and torque converter fits between late 305 (TBI) coming from a car? and from a pickup?

Same questions for transmission.

I have not see any camaro of these years in a scrap yard and very little on the road since 10 years here... So I need alternatives... There are a lot more 90's pickup and cars with 305 in scrap yards that is possible to buy for peanuts.

gearhead141

I admire your spirit for wanting to keep a 305 in the car. Now, as far as finding one in you local salvage yard, these are the vehicles that you need to be looking for:

1982-'92 Chevrolet Impala and Caprice
1985-'91 Chevy Astro Van
1982-'93 2 and 4WD, Sonoma and Blazers
1991 2 and 4WD Suburban up to 3/4 ton
1982-'93 C and K series pickups up to 3/4 ton
1982-'93 G series vans up to 3/4 ton and full-size 2 and 4WD Blazers
1983-'86 Pontiac Parisienne

I can tell you that it is getting harder to find vehicles that are 30 years old. Most of our local yards have plenty of vehicles in the 15-20 year old range, i.e. lots of Cavaliers, but finding something with a 5.0 and a TH700R4 may be difficult at a Pick & Pull. I would suggest getting in touch with a salvage yard that does the pulling and tell them your needs. If it is locally available, they can get it and it will be on a pallet. If you have a pickup, they will forklift it in for you. Letting your fingers do the walking is much easier than driving around searching. The later vehicles will have the better trans which I believe came out in 1987. Good luck with your search!

Camaro-3

Thank you!

I suppose it's possible to install any 4 speed transmission from these RWD cars?
:
1982-'92 Chevrolet Impala and Caprice
1983-'86 Pontiac Parisienne

I'm wondering if the 2wd pickup trucks transmissions fits or i absolutely need one from a RWD car with a 305?

brettr81

You could put in any 305, 350 or SBC.

gearhead141

All of the vehicles that are listed come with a 700R4 or a 4L60 trans. Yes, even the pickups use the same transmission. Be advised, that your car may have a cable speedometer in which case you may have to source an adapter for that. Hopefully your car still has all the wiring that connects to the trans, i.e. the TCC lockup connector.

7thdarkangel

7004r from any 2 wheel drive truck or car should fit. A 4 wheel drive transmission will not fit. The tails are different. You would just need to look into a torque converter.

7thdarkangel

if you need the harness pm me. I have a 700r4/305 harness/computer that will be getting pulled out of my car soon.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Astro vans did not have V8s. They had 4.3 V6s (350 SBC minus 2 cylinders). However, the Astro TH700R-4 (2WD version) will fit a V8 (same bellhousing pattern).

Any TH700R-4 that does not come from an f-body will not have the torque arm mount provision. It will swap over, though, so if you can find an f-body tailshaft (even a V6 f-body TH700R-4), it will bolt on to the transmission. A remote mount TA isn't a bad idea, though.

If you had a running 305, I would support going ahead and using it, given your goals. I had an all-stock '82 with 305 that had a Flowmaster 80 series muffler, and it sounded great. It was a dog, but it sounded great.

Since you don't have a running 305, I would suggest you broaden your choices a little bit. There really is no advantage to a 305 over a 350, including fuel economy. Parts are more plentiful for a 350 over a 305 (mostly internal, admittedly, as they are basically the same externally). 350's themselves are more plentiful.

You didn't mention emissions, so I assume that isn't an issue (although legally, it always is).

So, here's my recommendation: Look for a '96-'99 light truck with a 350. It will have Vortec heads. Get a Vortec intake manifold, and you've got the same set-up requirements you would have for a 305. It'll have more spunk, and will be more efficient. With headers and a good 3" cat-back, it'll have that sound you're looking for, too.

Be aware that starting in 1993, the 4-speed automatic overdrive went to electronic control (for some - all were by 1994). You can use the '96-'99 truck transmission if it is 2WD, but you will need a separate electronic controller.

gearhead141

The points that five7kid make are valid. The price may even be comparable. I had a '96 GMC C1500 with the 5.7 Vortec and a 4L60E trans. It was a great combination and I felt it would be a great candidate for my car. You aren't going to find many engines out there with a carburetor. Most of those are long gone.

I hadn't thought of the torque arm, and that is a very important item for the trans.

Even if the engine doesn't have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump, that can be overcome. I don't know if the Vortec block did away with that.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Good point. Some do, some don't. Only way to know is to look.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Here is a picture of the correct 700R4 tailshaft to fit our third gen cars . If you don't get one of these , there are "torque arm relocation kits" out there that will take the torque arm away from being bolted to the transmission's tailshaft and bolt it to the crossmember instead (I believe a new crossmember is part of the kit) . If it's originality your looking for , these three cast in holes are proof of an original third gen 700R4 ...

Camaro-3

Thanks for advices!

I will check for a 350 with Vortec heads. But I have another question... What Carb should I use with the vortec 350 engine? It's important for me to stay with a carb. To install a Carb on a vortec engine, do I need an aftermarket intake and which one?

Is it usually cheaper to find a stock carb from a 82-85 350 Camaro and rebuild it with a rebuild kit instead of buying an aftermarket one?

Significant fuel economy and power gains if I go with an aftermarket carb?

And about fuel economy, do you think a 350 vortec (with carb) will do better , same or worse than an old 305 stock engine? My diff gears are 2.83's, and I do mid highway mid city. I plan to use the 4th gear overdrive tranny with a lockup.

naf

iTrader: (7)

stock carb will likely provide better fuel economy with no loss of performance. we would need a little more info on how much of that system remains with your car to recommend it though. it required the ecm, computer controlled dist and other sensors that may now be missing.

an aftermarket intake will have to be used with the vortec heads, the performer intake is close to stock

the vortec heads will not have the provision for integral EGR, to keep it, it will have to be externally plumbed, but the motor will run fine without it and you may be missing all of that anyway (it was controlled by the ecm).

the vortec heads will not have the rearmost bolt hole for the stock exhaust manifolds on the passenger side, many (including me) have installed them without this bolt with no issues though.

the 350 swap into my original LG4 Pontiac resulted in slightly worse highway mileage, about the same round about mileage. that swap was done after about two years of driving the LG4, so some history of fuel economy numbers was available. the original 350 motor had TBI heads and the swap from those to vortec heads a few years back resulted in no noticeable fuel economy difference. I'm using the LO5 TBI cam still though. average 20-21 mpg on my mixed 35 mile commute everyday.

Camaro-3

I checked and it will be possible to have a 305 engins donnor for free. It is a 92 4x4 pickup with a 305 TBI in good shape. It includes all accessoires like alternator, brackets, ac compressor... But i'm not sure if i could install the whole engine and accessories from the truck into my camaro? Thé engine have thé boss for mechanical fuel pump with mounting bolt holes but no plate because the hole for the fuel pump rod Is not drilled. Is it possible to drill the hole for the rod? I also have a Rochester 4 barrel carb for free, an intake for free and i could have a camshaft with fuel pump lobe for like 20$... I would juste need to buy a 700r4 tranny... Is it a good idea to install this truck tbi engine with his accessories if i drill an hole for thé fuel pump rod? Or it will ne a better idea to find an engine and trans from a camaro? Im not sure if the accessoires brackets are the same or will fit...

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

being from a 92 no the accesories will not work, the alternator will sit too high. do you currently have a v8 in the car? the only other thing that may cause issue would be the oil pan, and since its a 4x4 it should have the remote 90 angled oil filter adapter which would have to be swapped out.

free might seem great but in reality probably no the best of choices, at this rate a 350 isnt far behind but if the 305 is in good shape then run it, just dont expect power, id look into running a electric pump with a regulator at this point. If i was doing it, drilling the fuel pump hole would require a complete tear down to be efficient.

Camaro-3

No, i bought the car with no engine and tranny. Th 305 engine is free ans i dont expect a lot of performance from it. About the fuel pump hole, i prefer a mechanical one if possible. Tearing down is not a problem since i will change the 2 cyl heads gaskets in prevention.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

tearing it done becomes not free and not worth rebuilding, if you open up the bottom end then one should do bearings rings seals etc and do the apopraite machine work, d run a cheapy electric pump with regulator before going through that on an engine that is worth....well....free.

or find a different one, brackets wont work at all, you intake will probably have to be modified as tbi engine have the inside two holes on each side angled differently.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Ahhh, the innocence of a third gen newbie. I miss those days...

Let's be realistic though, it will become more of just the matter of cruising around with the t-tops off listening to the sound of a V8 once you get spanked by an economy V6, trust me. Plan for something decent now before the work is even done, because once it is installed the last thing you will want to do is go back into the engine and make some changes when you realize just how slow it is by today's standards. Get it all done while it is out of the engine bay. Decent cam and intake for starters, there are plenty of heads to choose from that are good right out of the box. Any SBC with good compression and decent bearings will do, just inspect it thoroughly. You will also want a decent stall converter, I cannot stress that enough. Even if your only shooting for 250-300 horsepower, it makes a world of difference and way more enjoyable when the converter flashes closer to 3000-RPM in a mild street car.

Camaro-3

I have seen a couple of 305 H.O. engines for sale, or maybe ill check for a 350

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

Where are you located? I have two 305s I never intend on using. I can check if they have fuel boss drilled because I honestly never checked

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I also suggest finding a 305 or 350 Vortec. The last running 305 Vortec I put together cost me $300 to throw rings/bearings and a mild flat tappet cam kit into. It actually runs better than the stock 350s do in the heavy 1999 Tahoe it is in. It is a bit harder to find the 350s as nobody just throws them out like they did this 305 I picked up. The 305 still had cross hatching in the bores and was virtually spotless even though it had over 250K on it. It spent the first 200k pulling around an Express van owmed by an 80+ year old man and the next 50k pulling around my buddies solid axle swapped 1998 K1500 on 38s. When he upgraded to 44s he put a 383 in the truck hence how I ended up with the 305.

I have had more than one Vortec engine that was drilled and tapped for a fuel pump and had a factory block off plate installed.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

If you are just shooting for a cruiser with some kick to enjoy and to at least be able to compete with today's everyday street cars, a 305 will do just fine, you just have to let it breath. I'm not talking Hellcat lol, just some of the Imports that are out there, you will do just fine against them if built right. There is a local member by me running 2.02" heads with his 305, and although I never had the chance to line up with him, or to even see the results at the track to see if shrouding was a factor, it is nice to know that it is an option for these anemic engines. I had to put a halt on my own 305 build because I injured my arm pretty badly the end of last year, but it seems to be all better now and am planning to pick up where I left off soon. Get it done... cuz Spring's a coming.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I have also seen a vortec engine drilled and tapped for fuel pump. It had the block off plate on it. It would be great if you could find a vortec whether a 305 or 350. I loved the torque of the old L69s also.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The boss is part of the casting, so it will always be there.

The pushrod hole needs more than just "drilling". It needs to be precision machined. And requires engine disassembly so you can clean it properly afterwards.

Camaro-3

Hello guys, I have seen a donnor : trans am GTA with a h.o 305 engine and 700r4 for sale, 600 bucks whole car. Is it a no brainer bolt on? (Engine and tranny with all brackets). Because my camaro is an empty shell.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

yea just swap everything dependant on year, im not familiar with any HO trans am for the most part but if its already carbd toss it in, tpi will take an intake change then part out the rest of the car to offset your cost

naf

iTrader: (7)

GTA won't have the 305HO. last year for the L69 was 86, and there were few of them made that year.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I would find a 350 engine, computer controlled QJET carb to put on top of it and call it a day. You'll get much more fun out of it and while it won't be a 305...unless you physically dismantled the motor and look at internals or actually dug down to look at the block casting number, no one could tell the difference.

I ran a 355 with my Qjet carb on it and it ran like a champ until i decided to swap it for an LS motor.

Any 700R-4 from 84-92 will work just fine but I'd recommend the 87+ versions simply because they're a better design internally.

I will have a complete harness/carb/distributor set up for sale in the near future once i pull my motor. I'd offer that too but it's got low oil pressure and probably needs new main or cam bearings. PM me if you're interested.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Agree 100%.
See my sig. VERY simple!

Camaro-3

I found a 305 engine completely dressed with brackets from a camaro, distributor, pan, carb, alternator, p/s pump and pulleys, flywheel... with a 700r4 tranny with the right tail for 350$ together... Was on a midly heated garage.

Seller tell me it runned 1 year ago but since it's outside of the car and not on a stand, it will be hard to make it run before buying it....

Is it a good idea to take a chance buying it if I try to rotate the engine with a ratchet to make it sure it's not seized and to feel compression?

What do you recommand to check before buying without disassembling too much things on engine? For sure the tranny is a guess to take, I will install it and pray to not have to rebuild it, but maybe the engine is not too risky if it's not jammed... Anyway, I plan to remove cylinder heads to change head gaskets and maybe check the crankshaft bearings condition before installing it in the car.

Complete old 305 and 350 (Carb) are hard to find here in Canada so I think it could be a good deal... There are hard to find on junkyards too and they are often selling it without any accessories for like 500$ just the engine... and bill 40$ more for the alternator, 40$ for the starter,... so it becomes really expensive.

What I need is a low budget reliable V8 engine, not a performance engine. With a good refresh it will make a 1000$ reliable car with no rust! It's only a second car I will use 4 months per year..

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Check the dipstick for oil. If it has oil in it, how does it look? Look in the oil fill - is it relatively clean, or full of caked oil residue?

Remove all the spark plugs. How do they look?

Turn the engine over by hand with the spark plugs still out (socket on the damper bolt works). If good, continue.

Hook a battery to the starter (assuming it has a starter). Jumper cables will do. With all of the spark plugs still out, use the starter to turn over the engine. If all is good so far, continue.

Open the choke and throttle, hold them open (or, remove the carb from the intake). If it doesn't have oil in it, add 3-4 quarts now. With the spark plugs still out, use a compression gauge and check the compression on each cylinder, using the starter to turn the engine over. Write down the results for each cylinder. If at least 120 psi, and difference between cylinders is <10%, you're probably good to go.

You could also hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge and check oil pressure while cranking with no sparks plugs installed.

If the fuel pump is installed, you could hook a hose to the inlet and put it in a can of gas. Hook battery power to the distributor, and start it up on the ground. If it's a stock fuel pump, you'll also have to hook up a return hose to the can. Make sure the engine is well supported, and you don't want to run it very long. But, it should start (after putting the spark plugs back in, of course).

If this was originally a Canadian-sold car, it won't have an ECM (unless it is an L69, which isn't likely). Does the distributor have a vacuum advance on it?

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

My 98 350 from a silverado (Vortec Heads) that I put in my TA had the mount points for a mechanical fuel pump but it was not drilled for the pump rod. Machine work ran the same as it would have to swap in an electric pump so I went the in-tank pump route.

Camaro-3

I have bought the engine and transmission for really cheap. Engine can easily Turn with a ratchet, and spark plugs seems good. I have not tried to start it yet and it have not started since more than 1 year. I want to make a cheap tune up to make the engine reliable for daily driving it 400 miles per week, 6 montgs per year. I dont want to make a performance beast but something reliable. I have about 250$ to spend on the engine parts (an all around like plugs, wires, air cleaner...) for the tune up and i absolutely want to remove cyl heads to at least change intake and heads gaskets and to check cylinder walls and cam condition. I will Also remove the pan to check rod and main bearings condition. I do not want to rebuild the entire engine changing all parts like pistons and overbore the engine... I want to change spark plugs, wires, cap-rotor, and maybe the water pump. If after partial disassembly its really necessary to spend more for the engine, it's OK, but i just want to have a reliable engine which is well prepared. Im doing all the job myself and dont need a full rebuild. A little oïl consumption is not a problem... What parts should i change/check for a good refresh of the engine if i am removing cyl heads and oïl pan? Which engine refresh kits are the best bang for the Buck on eBay? I have seen a lot of kits but there are many full rebuild kits i dont need and there is a lot of brands too. Is rebuilding carburetor is a good idea or mot necessary?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I wouldn't bother removing the heads unless I know something isn't right.

This guy has some pretty good advice:


It's a pretty good idea.

Camaro-3

Ok, i will check the compression and start it to check if it runs good.

About the heads disassembly, It was to make sure the engine is reliable. Sometimes, I think it's commun for old engines stored for years to blow the head gasket within the first 5000 miles, or have leaky oil seals...

midias

Make sure you reseal the oil pan while you have the motor out. PITA with the motor in. I might replace the oil pump while I was at it.

Camaro-3

Compression test is done. Résults dry, with 5 cycles at WOT are...
Cyl 1 : 158psi
Cyl 2 : 162psi
Cyl 3 : 175psi
Cyl 4 : 178psi
Cyl 5 : 165psi
Cyl 6 : 171psi
Cyl 7 : 170psi
Cyl 8 : 154psi

What do you think of that? Leaking valves?
Theres no oïl on spark plugs.

Tomorrow i disassemble the engine.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The engine is already apart as per your other thread. You might as well replace the worn items to keep it what you're looking for, reliable. If the bores are in good shape, then there is no need to replace the pistons, or any part of the rolling assembly for that matter. But while you're in there, replace the rings and bearings. That is what reliable is, you want solid oil pressure, and rings and bearings are designed to wear down over time. Everything else in terms of tuning up the fueling and spark is a given...

naf

iTrader: (7)

those numbers aren't great, but they're not terrible.

I wouldn't replace the rings without a hone.

I would replace all of the bearings, rear and front seals. An inexpensive rebuild kit will have everything you need for around $100. Recommend a one-piece oil pan gasket instead of the four-piece included in most kits. A new standard oil pump is also cheap insurance.

With the heads already off, replace the springs and valve seals. You can do away with the exhaust rotators but their absence will require shims. If you go that route, try to acquire the shims from a local shop, rather than on-line. Last I needed some the NAPA machine shop guy virtually gave them to me for a few$.

Post the numbers off of the heads. Inspect the cam and lifters carefully. Post some pics.

Camaro-3

I have done a thread in the right section with some pics
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...sh-lowest.html

There are a little stains and black rust on the cylinders. Do you think its a good idéa to turn the engine with oïl pan upside, than use a 3000 sand paper with some wd40 un a crosshatch pattern, then clean the débris with brake cleaner and shop vac before turning the engine in the right side?