Arctic White 91 RS

Hi I seldom make it to the forums anymore so please be understanding with my questions as I've spent a fair time browsing.

I made an offer on a nice late model 3rd Gen Convertible. If the car checks out as described I will purchase. I owned a 3rd Gen ttop for along time but I'm not familiar with the quirks of the drop top.

What specific areas should I take extra care in checking?

Is the chassis/frame sturdy enough with added subframe connectors to handle 350 rwhp?

Do these cars respond well to the typical suspension mods like LCAs, wonder bars, larger sway bars, shocks & springs?

I've pressed my 381000 mile ttop RS very hard for 20+ years without harm. Are the the convertibles likewise robust for hard cornering?

Any special concerns with using jackstands?

Does anyone in the aftermarket offer or plan to offer a hard top shell?

Is there a glass/lexan replacement for the rear window?

I'm struggling withwhat's more important: pick an RS 305 TBI auto in excellent condition that's 1 owner with all receipts that isn't optioned ideally or a neglected TPI IROC/Z28 5speed car that is the color and exact package you want and costs an extra$2000 and needs paint & a top?

I zero collector interest either car will be driven 10000 miles a year.

Thank you in advance for your kind advice.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Lon

86gn

iTrader: (3)

I bought mine 6months ago and am doing a LSx swap on her and is almost done, did not drive it but one or 2 times with the 305 in it just so I could see the difference. I will be putting down around 400-425 to the wheels and not worried about it at all, there have been plenty of vert builds making that and much more. At least one set of sub frame conectors but I see ppl doing 2. Depending on the year you are looking at the factory had its own version of and wonder bar with the triangle frame tie ins.

Arctic White 91 RS

Thank you for the comments. The RS is my choice between the two. Read the article on swapping in a T5 and learned a coworker has done it before. Eventually will do that after finding. a good T5.

86T/A_Ram_Air

I'm running a built 355 through a t5. It really has to do with abuse. If your slamming gears and driving aggressively all the time it won't last. If mine goes I'm going to step it up to a t56

Arctic White 91 RS

I speed shift using clutch in my 99 T/A 418rwhp with 4.10 gears for the last 135000 miles on the original stock clutch with out breaking anything. I drove my 06 Honda Accord same way. I never power shift ie shift without using clutch a WOT. I will rev match & shift without clutch when just screwing around town. I don't dump the clutch going from a dig, I slip & ride the clutch to reduce wheel spin until hooked then nail it and speed shift there after.

Power shifting & clutch dumps seem very abusive & I don't do that....but anything else is fair game for the way I drive sometimes.

Would that style be consider abusive? Or to harsh for a T5?

Again I appreciate the info & feedback fellow TGO members.

visitor

Lol, no, I will pretty much guarantee no one is considering a hard top.

86T/A_Ram_Air

Well depending upon how much power your putting out speed shifting could be dangerous. Again if done constantly. The T5 is not a strong trans. Its only rated to about 300 ft. Lbs hence why it was never mated to a tpi 350 from the factory and why the t56 is a very very popular swap. The current t5 in my car I got 2nd hand from someone who claims it is "fortified". I take this with a grain of salt.

This is the third t5 on my setup. None of which made it to the dyno for an actual tune session and I baby it because it hasn't been tuned.

abray1

Verts aren't really power cars they are more cruisers. When I got mine I replaced every bushing with the red poly ones and added LCA, panhard,etc. Mine handles like a go cart now and actually broke the windshield going around a tight corner. They all need frame support and some people use two sets which I will probably do. The SFC is the only thing I haven't done yet but I will before long. I am building a 375-400 horse 350 that will be a cruiser engine. My radio is killer and I installed a 9 bolt PBR posi with 327 gears which is about the right gear for a mostly stock vert. The car handles like a race car and stops on a dime. I just need to finish the motor and add SFCs. Something you might want to do is when I was running stereo wires I took the interior out and got some 3M rubberized undercoating and coated the entire floor pan area especially in the lower areas. The car had zero rust and now it will never rust since I got around the wheel wells and lower fender areas where they seem to rust. I also have a new top with glass window to install. It really does handle like a go cart in that I can slide the car around and it barely leans at all.

Arctic White 91 RS

I will keep that in mind. My plan for the car is:

Drive it home, inspect at local shop and switch to Mobile 1 oil, transfluid & differential oil. Flush brake fluid & power steering. Radiator too if that more than to years ago.

Fix seat belt tensioner
Switch AC to 134a

Drive car and get to know it before changing anything else.

First mod will be dual subframe connectors.

Ideally, that will be the last mod for a couple of years.

I will, probably want the handling close to my white rs so eibachs, bilsteins & Sphon LCA, panhard, wonder bar & sway bars and maybe tires are likely.

I don't want to tweak too much on this car because it's to be my driver while the white RS gets some love.

86T/A_Ram_Air

I have one set of SFC's on mine. I went with the spohn ones that have a triangulated piece that gets welded over by the trans cross member and ties out to the main sub frame connector. I feel this is enough on my power level it should be plenty for you. You can also tie things together with a wander bar and a strut tower brace

Termn8r

I have had my vert for 20 years and in that 20 I have kept it 305 (all verts started as 305s) While I know many puke at 305s and push for 350+ I have really enjoyed it and it has plenty of power.

The frame is stronger (they put super thick beams under the car hence the reason all verts have ground effects (at least I believe that is why, they are big).

What I would want to check on the vert is the frame of the top. Who cares if the cloth/leather is ruined/old, what matters is the frame/mechanics work. Fixing that is a major pain. Yes you can replace the glass, however, I have the plastic and it works just fine, no issues. But then again I rarely have my top up.

Do NOT run the vert through an auto car wash, you will get flooded. 3rd gens are not really waterproof where the roof meets the windows on the doors. I found out the hard way and my roof was new. It could be there are ways to resolve this, I just prefer to hand wash mine anyway. Works fine for rain, just not pressure wash from the sides.

Differences to look for.

1. Seatbelts - these are not the same as a coupe/ttop. The front are close and somewhat interchangeable but the backs are completely different (mainly because of the shoulder strap that disconnects). I would want the seat belts to be in good condition. New vert seat belts are $400+ and hard to find.

2. Sun visors. Though they look similar, normal visors wont fit correctly (can be modified some).

3. Rear view mirror. Verts have the lights in the mirrors because they have no roof. Make sure it works, hard to find these mirrors in good condition.

4. Does the tonneau button work? This is a notorious issue with verts. Where you normally have the trunk pop between window buttons is the tonneau button. Hopefully this one works. If not you will need to use the emergency pulls behind the back seat (drop it down).

5. Weatherstripping for the tonneau and trunk. The tonneau stripping is hard to find.

6. The trunk spoiler (has third brake light I assume?) the black plastic strip between trunk and spoiler, impossible to find and I mean impossible. Take care of it.

7. Just an FYI to remove the bottom side spoilers (to paint or replace) you have to take out the back seats and drill holes into the sides to get the bolt. It's a pain... I assume this is specific to verts, maybe not.

8. Front fenders if replacing you must make custom modifications as after market fenders will not have the appropriate connections for a vert. (just takes some rivots, remove the piece from the old ones and put it on the new, some minor cutting).

9. I believe the rest of the car is interchangeable with other camaros.

With that said, I fell in love with my vert the first day I saw it. It was the first convertible I ever drove and I hope to have it the rest of my life.

Hope this helps.

Arctic White 91 RS

Termi8er, yes that is very helpful. I appreciate your detailed reply.

Likewise, I thank you to everyone else as well for sharing their information.

86T/A_Ram_Air

That is a incorrect statement. There are many documented original 350 cars that were sent to ASC for the conversion. Most are Formula 350's and trans ams.

The bracing is not the reason they have ground effects. Formulas have no ground effects and there are formula verts.

The bracing is insufficient for any aggressive driving. I have heard of guys cracking their windshield pulling into their driveway because of the amount of flex.

SFC's are highly recommended for any vert

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

The sunvisor on a convertible and more specifically the sunvisor mount is the same as those on a t-top car. Remember our cars were modified from t-top cars.

Lon

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

True, GM did not add GFX to hide the bracing used on the formed sheet metal bracing. But they did add a trim piece to the Formula 'verts to help hide the bracing.

Lon

Termn8r

As I said I wasn't certain on the bracing, but it made sense as it would be visible if the ground effects weren't there.

As to the 305 statement that was only what I had been told. Thanks for the correction. I never bothered researching it because it kind of made sense (put a smaller engine in a rolling death trap).

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

They came the V6 engines too. Here is one on AutoTrader right now:
!!CLICK HERE!!

86T/A_Ram_Air

It's an easy mistake. But yes there are quite a few out there. The dumbest thing was that the ASC cars all came with rear drums so far as I know. I have upgraded mine to a disc 10 bolt

abray1

I agree with the rear drum statement; what were they thinking? I added a 9 bolt PBR rear disc posi with 327 gears. While I had the rear out I added a Walbro pump, LCA and panhard bars, bilstein shocks, red sway bar bushings and trans mount. Then I went to the front end. You can make a vert handle very well. Mine handles like a go cart but the stock 305 is getting old. Not really worried about power since it will always be a cruiser.

Arctic White 91 RS

Follow up:

I bought a black RS convertible today!

Will post pictures when I get home.

http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal...earchType=both

Arctic White 91 RS

Pics have to wait cause it appears the fuel pump died about 1/4 of the way thru the 725 mile return trip. Car was towed to a shop for repair.

Will have a good road trip story to share later. Car is 1 owner with book full of all receipts, window sticker etc & was very well maintained. Shook car down driving for hour and half & checked all the obvious stuff before buying etc...oh well...should have took my truck & trailered the new car home.

BTW - if I missed checking something I should check on fuel system feel free to point it out.

Checked there is gas in tank & spark. Car runs if you drip gas into TB. Injectors aren't spraying. Both fuel system fuses in fuse box are ok. Fuse link near battery looked ok but shop will check. Fuel pump relay was replaced in 2007, pulled it..looks ok. Can't hear fuel pump run.

abray1

If you have to pull the tank and put a pump in it its a shame you don't have a 9 bolt rear disc to install while its all tore down. I also added the Walbro 255, LCA, panhard bar, all new poly bushings and Bilstein shocks while I had it tore down. I bought mine in 2007 or so and its all I drive except for my 89 Z71 Silverado (hunting and fishing truck). My vert doesn't go where the deer and fish hang out.

Arctic White 91 RS

Yes a 9 - bolt, suspension mod's & rear disc brakes are ideal at the same time but the fuel pump failed 500 miles from home. Danieley's of Princeton, West Virginia was nice enough to tow the car last night and repair it on Sunday - I.e. today.

The black RS is back on the road & I'm on the way home

Much gratitude & thanks to Danieley's.

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

Wow man, thats a drag! I bought my vert in Chicago and drove it 850 miles home to Maryland with a bucket of tools, hoping for the best. Thankfully nothing like this happened, wish you the best. My trip was a lot of fun, though. I never went above the posted speed limit, and kept a list of things that I noticed were not right. Odd things, like the horn sounding funky (only had one of the two horns, not sure where the other went) and the cigarette lighter not working (could not use GPS).

Arctic White 91 RS

Finished the return trip yesterday. The car was flawless for the remainder of trip. Even got 28.4mpg on one tank of gas and 28.8mpg on the other. Pretty much fell in love with this triple black convertible, probably because I wanted a new one like it 20+ years ago but it was well out of my price range back then.

The fuel pump was on my hit list to replace when I got the car home. With only about 105k on it was unlikely to fail based on my experience running a stock one over 200k miles etc and another stock pump over 150k. The battery & alternator will get replaced as preventive maintenance this weekend.

I should add this particular car has a big fat file folder of all maintenance records and repairs. The car drives and handles like a new 3rd gen and has fewer creaks & rattles than my girlfriend's 2007 Mercedes SLK 350.

I'm surprised how quiet the car is compared to the other 3rd gens I've owned or been around. I'm having a whole lot of second thoughts about doing the SLP headers, 3 inch Y-pipe & SLP 2OTL catback.

Everything worked as it should and my list of items to address after 750 road trip are the same ones the seller mentioned the first time we talked.

Driver seat belt retractor
AC recharge, switch to R134a & switch
Drivers power mirror shakes
Drivers sun visor is loose
Tune up is due
Car should be repainted

The good surprises interior in excellent condition. Seats pristine. Orginal dash pad like new...no cracks etc. The transmission had receipt documented fluid changes ever 15,000 mile & the differential had the appropriate oil changes. The top is in excellent condition.

I'm delighted with the new RS.

Arctic White 91 RS

Update - so others might have an idea of what they are getting into...

$2,000+ in repairs etc so far in six weeks.

Driver seat belt retractor*- fixed $200
AC recharge, switch to R134a & switch - pending
Drivers power mirror shakes - fixed free was missing screw.
Drivers sun visor is loose - fixed tighten screw
Tune up - $200
Car should be repainted - $200, paint is ok just bad oxidation. Wet sanding by hand, buffing with random orbital using Meguiars medium cut, fine cut, swirl remover, #7polish, #26wax made paint acceptable. Did this myself.

Replaced fuel pump & sending unit - $575
Fix leaking pinion seal - $135
Mobile 1 oil & filter - $50
Coolant flush - $65
Serpentine belt - $35 gates
New failsafe 180 degree thermostat - $12
Hood struts - $ 35
Thermostat fan control switch - $100 labor & part

Rebuild rear end when carrier bearings & pinion bearings failed - $ 750 is quote should have car back today.

No mod money for sub-frames for now. This car had all maintenance records and recipes. I wrongly estimated that a budget of $1500 would cover all issues.

Remaining. ..
Intake could use new gaskets quoted $580
AC - shop wouldn't hazard a guess...
Alignment, tire rotation

Termn8r

The correct formula for budgeting a 3rd gen Camaro is, find all the problems, add them to a spreadsheet, look up all parts/labor costs.

Then take the final total, add tax to all as a buffer and then multiply this total times Pi.

Then you will be closer to your budget requirements...

Great work so far, check the end links, transmission mount as well, they go bad after sitting. Also make sure the gas tank doesn't have pinholes in it (mine did) and check the boost cylinder/brake fluid. Mine leaked but it followed the subframe and went down into the backseat floorboard.

Arctic White 91 RS

Just times pi?
That right vettes are pi squared
Porsche pi cubed

I will add that to the list with transmission service and fuel filter for next week.