pwessels

Long time reader - almost never poster...

I recently bought a '87 Iroc convertible for a pretty decent price. I didn't research it too much as it was very clean, and although it wasn't what I was looking for (black hardtop) I liked it alot. Now that I have it at home and have had a chance to really look it over it seems to be pretty loaded - including the g92 option.

The car is in really decent shape with no previous accidents or rust anywhere. Mileage is pretty low at 53,xxx. I have read all of the threads about 87 convertibles and have come to the conclusion that this must be a pretty rare car to find in any condition these days.

What I would like is some feedback from others who are more knowledgeable with these than me. Is this a much more desirable car than other 3rd gen era convertibles? Should I keep it longer term from a value point of view? Can I add sub-frame connectors or will that hurt the value?

I will likely fix or replace the few minor interior plastic parts that have wear or damage then enjoy the car for the summer and then possibly sell it and look for a hardtop.

Thanks,

Pierre

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Nice car. I have been looking for a 5 speed convertible, so I can share my findings. The G92 is more desirable, obviously. However, virtually all of the '87 and '88, (G92 not available on convertible IROCs after that), 5 speed convertible IROC-Zs I have encountered, had the G92 package. Actually, all of them, except one. Maybe because they were loaded cars and all the boxes were checked? Don't know.

Everyone who has a G92 convertible tells me it is super duper rare. I don't have the heart to tell them that it is actually uncommon to NOT have it.

pwessels

Thanks for the feedback Chazman. As for adding sub-frame connectors what are your thoughts? I have a new black set of UMI connector sitting here and these cars really feel like they are more of a necessity than a nice to have. Is it likely anyone in the future will be unhappy they were added?

Pierre

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Well, it's your car. Do what makes you happy. Generally speaking though, if someone is looking to spend top dollar on a low mile, stock, creampuff - any mods will decrease value.

okfoz

Agreed, If you want to keep it then do what you want, but if you are wanting to sell it later on, you will be better off, just leaving it alone. Being a LB9/MM5 that is a desirable combo, and it was only available in 1987 & 1988, maybe 1989 with the G92 option. 90-92 there was no G92 on any convertible AFAIK...

John

pwessels

I think I might just save them for the next car...which hopefully will be a ht.

okfoz

Honestly for cruising around nothing beats a convertible with the top down... Nothing I would want to take drag racing, or on long trips, but around town

B4C5.7

iTrader: (2)

Given what the car is as a IROC Vert MM5/G92 I would not install SFC's in it if you are going to sell. Folks interested in this car 'usually' don't like mods but prefer cars that are original.

neilcase

I was a 1st gen guy for years and then the recession whacked my finances real bad. I've always had and always will have the Camaro bug so when things got better I started looking for an affordable "collector" type convertible and after many months of research I decided to try to find an 87 IROC convertible. It had a similar "feel" collector wise as did the 67 and 68 convertibles did 30 years ago. I'm not saying that an 87 will ever have the desirability or value of a 67/68 but in my opinion it is the most collectible of the 3rd gen convertibles and perhaps of all the 3rd gen cars period with exception to the 1LE. I think there is only two ways to go with these cars. Either as close to bone stock original as possible or totally modified. Nothing in between when considering collectability and value. If what you want is a fun driver then anything n between is the way to go but stay away from the rare cars and get a plain jane and do what you want with it. But if you have a 90% original 87 IROC convertible with a TPI and 5 speed you should stay true to the original car. THAT'S where the collectability is.

BTW- After months of nationwide searching I found my 87 IROC convertible 305TPI 5 Spd G92 grey leather interior (the most rare feature of all) just 20 miles from me. It's about 80% thru a ground up restoration and hopefully will be done this summer of 2016!

cheesehomer

iTrader: (2)

I would disagree, anything can be returned to "original" including sub frame connectors which can be cut off. There are more 1967 427 Corvettes registered today than there was built in 1967. Do what you want with the car and enjoy it. If anything, keep everything you take off the car and store it, one day you may want to return it to stock.
my

NicKey

Sounds like you found a Kool third Gen. As a collector, I can say that in my opinion the more original generally the more desirable and as more collectors "find" these cars the more that will mean down the road.

These cars were produced in large quantities, but nice original examples are growing in value, IMO.

I really like these third Gens especially the convertibles and next the T-Top cars, as far as fun factor. Don't get me wrong the hard top , fixed roof cars look great too , just that the others are more fun for me.


What is the hierarchy of collectability for the third gens?

Does the IROC name override the value of a 1991-1992 Z28?

okfoz

This is a subjective thing this is how I see it.

5 Stars 1) Firehawk
4.5 Stars 2) 89 TTA
4 Stars 3) 350 cars 3.27 or 3.23 gear
3.5 Stars 4) LB9/ Manual / 3.45 or 3.42 gear
3 Stars 5) LB9/ Auto / 3.23 or 3.27 gear
3 Stars 6) L69 W/Manual & 3.73 gear

- ADD 1 Star for Convertible
- Add .5 Star for T-tops
- Add 1 Star for 1LE

Other than that it is a preference, some like the class of a Firebird, others like the rough & tumble Camaro..

NicKey

Thanks for the info. I would agree that Firebird vs Camaro is generally a preference, where comparable and equvelent cars are available.

The info I am seeking is mainly in regards to the IROC model vs the Z28 after the IROC name was discontinued.

For example, would a similar 1990 IROC vs a 1991 or 1992 Z28 be more collectible and desirable, about the same or less.

Most value guides show a trend that the newer car holds a premium.

okfoz

Realize that most "guides" have nothing to do with reality when it comes to cars that are more than 10 or 20 years old. Take a look at the 1994-1996 Impala SS, 85K Miles
NADA says $6800 - $15,000 (The most accurate)
KBB $5100 - $8000 (really? just try finding one under $10,000 that is good condition
Edmunds $4700 - $7440 (Again, what a joke)

I think the value guide should be things like what others are asking, go to sites that are selling cars, not ones that use a calculation to figure out how much it should be worth. Ever see those ad's, "bring in your old car and we will give you over KBB", that is why, because they are not accurate.

NicKey

Thanks for all the info. My question was focused on the "trend" in values being higher for the later Third Gens. I understand that upgrades and enhancements generally made them a better F-Body.

I had thought the IROC brand may have added more value?

okfoz

There is a trend for sure, several car articles are looking to see 3rd gen values double in the next 5 years. The highest likelihood group of cars of this happening is the IROC, Z28, GTA, Trans Am and Formula. I think the Firehawk and the TTA will also increase but not as fast as the slightly lesser models just because they are already expensive.

IMO Anything with an LG4, L03, V6 (not turbo) or I4, I see as staying as a bargain for some time as those are not nearly as sought after. The LG4 and L03 will have some push, but unless it is an immaculate really low miles car, anyone that knows will probably pass. Dealers will be snatching up the cheap V8's and try to sell them for a premium, so be aware.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Something I've noticed as well. I've seen so many decent LG4, L03 or lowpo LB9 cars for sale by dealers lately. Cars they probably picked up cheap, like 4 or 5k, which they have for sale for 9 or 10k. Those cars will obviously sit for a while. Especially since those same dealers aren't willing to put a penny into those cars in order to fix a few little things which may turn off a buyer.

NicKey

So regarding the '87 IROCs, how do you know if the Camaro was one converted for GM or done as a customer car after the fact by ASC?

Assuming there is no window sticker or dealer paperwork to confirm the status.

Does it matter?

pwessels

On a factory ordered convertible the vin has a 3 in it indicating it was to be a convertible not a HT or T-Top car. Although I think they all technically started out as t top cars...before the chop.

okfoz

For a particular year, Physically, structurally and cosmetically the ASC "For Dealer Conversion" and ASC "Production" cars are identical in every way shape and form. The only difference is the 6th digit in the VIN as mentioned before. ALL ASC F-body convertibles started as a T-top car and modified.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Anyone have any pictures of the t-top cars going to ASC? I'd imagine that they were missing their t-top hatches and rear glass.

NicKey

Ok thanks, that makes sense.

So this '87 was a factory 350 car, but a dealer conversion because no "3" in the 6th digit of the VIN.

http://www.volocars.com/vehicles/134...-camaro-iroc-z

pwessels

From what I have read that and the dash "1 of" emblems indicate it was a dealer or private individual that sent the car to ASC for the conversion.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

That's a really interesting car if it's real, but I'd want to see some documentation on it before I did anything. Not to pick it apart but the leather interior was only offered in Gray, Red and Saddle in 1987....not black.

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

I've been to Volo before…I wouldn't believe anything they say. I met an old polish guy in Chicago who stamped VINs for their #'s matching high dollar cars. The Knight Rider car they have was one that was used on TV show with Documentation. The car was converted after the show was off the air and it was an 82 Recaro they had there and couldn't sell so lets Knight Ride it and say it was on the show…BINGO $40,000 at least. They have a bunch of hodge lodge cars…unless it's someone's consignment then it doesn't sell because they want $$$ then the owner would sell it for. They charge the owner monthly though. They can't lose, they increase their stock and charge the owner to sell his car??? Their documentation is usually something that's made up. I'm sure it's nothing from Chevrolet or ASC

B4C5.7

iTrader: (2)

I don't know anything about the seller, but the seats look recovered (seams at edge of seat) and the console lid is not original?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Volo is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't buy a car from them....

okfoz

Let us take this down a notch.
1) I was not aware that Black Leather was NA in 1987
2) The steering wheel has been wrapped,
3) The seats are so poorly done, that it literally looks like Pleather or some other form of Vinyl seating.
4) the Radio is some aftermarket CD/Cassette thingie with a Chevy symbol.
5) The carpet on the floors, seat-belts, and arm rests are Gray, but the seats are Black?!? Really?
6) Missing badge from Dash
7) Extra wire on the RH brace under the hood
8) The Drivers seat belt is RED, with a Gray buckle, and the sheath is broken
9) The toneau release switch is clearly worn off, but the windows are not. Either the previous owner had a nervous twitch to cause them to rub the button off, OR they could not find a new switch.

This car has become #5 of the known 350 IROC Verts. So it is Rare, but it really needs a lot of work to make it $25K IMHO. Personally I would think that everything that needs to go into the car it is a $15K car at most as it sits, as it could cost $5K-$10K to put it back to the way it should be.

okfoz

Never noticed this little trim piece before on a Camaro ASC Vert, was it an 86-87 only thing?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I've seen it on a couple of '87s.

I guess they figured out it was better to simply not drill for the spoiler end pieces.

TPI Sierra

"Unrestored original" my eye. That odometer has gone over. Interior has been "redone." I don't know a lot about these cars but I know a load of bull when I see it!

pwessels

I think it is a pretty nice car but the description of how "original" is a bit misleading. If they had described it as "a very rare and enthusiast owned car in excellent mechanical/cosmetic condition"... I think that would be much more authentic and the focus would be on the 5.7 aspect.

The 2 very misleading statements are "Unrestored original" and "Leather interior practically looks new". Clearly the first one is an outright lie with the second statement supporting it...of course it looks practically new....it is new and not original...but represented as an original interior that is still like new. Among other incorrect details...the door panels have sewn lines instead of the pressed/glued down lines and the stitching pattern on the seat covers is not quite right....

1987 specific interior parts are very hard to find in perfect condition - so not surprising things may be a "bit custom" when reupholstering door panels and seats. I don't think any "1987 style" replacement totally accurate door panels or seat covers exist in the aftermarket.

On the flip side I am all for them asking the price they have posted - just be honest about what has been done to the car.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

If somebody could get me the VIN I can run an autocheck on it and verify the miles claim.

Personally, none of it's "faults" would keep me from buying it, however those faults and the price would. 100k miles plus, that car is 10k high if it is one of the 5.7 cars.

okfoz

It is not listed on the website but if you look there is a partial picture of the complete vin plate, but it is missing the last digit. However they etched the Plenum with the VIN so I could make out the last digit: I too am curious.

YES it is a 350 car, and YES it is an ASC conversion. Thanks to Chazman, I think it dawned on me what the little trim piece was for, to cover the holes for the coupe spoiler...

here ya go PMD 1G1FP2180HN145203

John

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

Like i said previously i met the guy who had tools to stamp engine blocks and make a 69 camaro big block car #s matching. I wouldn't put it past them if they made a VIN plate and made it a 350 VIN. No wonder there's a problem reading the VIN. These guys have been in business for a long time. Almost every car they have has some kind of issue. The documentation always seems to be shall I say...full of holes.

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

There's a new place opening not too far from Volo. They sell and service classic and muscle cars. I can't wait because that will be the one two knock out punch...

okfoz

I know that there are some people out there that do the changing of the VIN plate, but the problem is that after 1981 1) you need a check digit. 2) You would have to find an existing car to get the VIN from. There are too many checks any more to make it really work... It is a whole lot easier on old cars because there really isnt things like carfax etc... If they did a simple swap, why not go all the way and put in a 3 instead of the 2 for the body.

The car is one of the ASC conversions, I have little to no doubt, and it has the 350 as per the VIN. Also look at the glass and several components have the VIN stamped on them, and in 1987 there should be the VIN decals for each part, IE fenders, quarter panels, doors, hood, bumper supports. (The trunk would not because it was part of the conversion, the Factory convertibles I think is kind of sketchy too, whether or not they have the sticker on the trunk). None of which is difficult to really reproduce at this point in time as anyone with some skills and a good laser printer could make those. The other thing that would have to be faked would be the hidden vin, and getting those correct would pose a bigger problem...

Is it possible? Definitely!
is this the case with this car? Probably not
Is this a car I would be interested in personally? Probably not as there has been too much done to it in the custom field for the $$

There is another possibility that the car was actually a T-top car that someone took a rough Convertible and salvaged parts and made it into a convertible.. That would explain the half black interior with gray carpet and gray seatbelts, But again, I do not think that is the case here.

NicKey

[QUOTE=okfoz;6043110 Thanks to Chazman, I think it dawned on me what the little trim piece was for, to cover the holes for the coupe spoiler...



John[/QUOTE]

Interesting way to spot a Factory Conversion from a Dealer/Customer Conversion.

okfoz

IT would only work for the Camaro, as the Firebird did not have the spoiler on the sides of the quarter panels. But again the Firebirds were all conversions from 1986-1989..

John

pwessels

So to get back to my original SFC question....

I have decided to not add the SFC's and instead of modifying anything else, bring the car back to as stock as possible. I have already got a freshly restored Chuck Pelton Iroc steering wheel, NOS leather shift ****, better interior plastic and will keep buying other parts when I come across them etc.

chazman

iTrader: (4)