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Seems about half the people have problem with the cheap Champion radiators.... and even see a couple problem with the more expensive...
I think the later years had more cooling capacity than earlier (someone chime in), but if you are close to stock engine, get a close to stock replacement...
I debated "upgrading" my stock radiator with a champion one, but after reading of problems people had, I decided, I have a 91 stock radiator that is still working fine, no need to spend $$$ on it...
The stock radiator worked fine for the 350 horsepower 350s I built. I switched to a champion radiator and the first one developed a pinhole leak in a place that couldn't be welded. The second one is holding up fine so far.
I went with a Be Cool radiator and never looked back when I swapped in my 383.
This is what I did until I smashed it taking out my 355 to replace the oil pump. Ran for 8 years with no issues. Went back with a factory radiator when I re-installed and I've had no issues.
People are running hot 383's and 406's on factory radiators.
i went with one of the jegs universal fit alum rads. hard to beat for the price and have had no problems. the dont come with tranns cooler hook-up. but i was running a seperate cooler anyway.
Update
My second eBay aluminum radiator (they are all the same on the low end of) has begun to leak just like the first. They no longer have a lifetime warranty. If you are wanting a low priced aluminum radiator my advice is to just buy whatever is the cheapest and know you'll be replacing it in a few years. Otherwise stick with stock or save your money for one of the expensive name brands
Stock 2 row with the 383 and 406 in my old car. With 205 degree Buick Grand National fan switch and chip programmed to turn the other fan on at 195 degrees, never had an issue with heat in stop and go traffic during summer weather. Also used the biggest plate style transmission cooler I could find at the time for the 700R4.
How is the JEGS radiator that redkneckjoe posted about? Be great to get an update from him since he posted it back in 2016.... Anyone else running the JEGS?
How is the JEGS radiator that redkneckjoe posted about? Be great to get an update from him since he posted it back in 2016.... Anyone else running the JEGS?
Chinese import crap. Just like all the other Chinese rads like Mishimoto, Champion, etc. Hit and miss like all the rest. Quality control sucks, fit and finish sucks. You get, at most, what you pay for as usual.
Chinese import crap. Just like all the other Chinese rads like Mishimoto, Champion, etc. Hit and miss like all the rest. Quality control sucks, fit and finish sucks. You get, at most, what you pay for as usual.
GD
Very true and that's been my exact experience in radiators. However, when I can still buy at least 3 if not 5 Chinese look-a-likes for the cost of one brand name radiator and it only takes but ten mins to change a radiator with but a screwdriver and 10mm socket, I'll stick with the Chinese.
Both good points. Still seems like Champion is the most budge friendly option outside of stock replacement. For the price of the "high quality" units, it seems well worth the gamble on china..
The quality remains long after the price is forgotten. Also - how will you feel when you find you have built up the economy of quite possibly the enemy nation of the next world war? China can take their garbage and cram it straight up their *** sideways as far as I'm concerned. Virtually none of the high performance parts we use at my shop are sourced from China.
I put a frostbite 2 row radiator in my trans am last year, so far so good. seems like a quality piece, Fit pretty well but did require some finagling of the rubber mounts
Also - how will you feel when you find you have built up the economy of quite possibly the enemy nation of the next world war?
GD
China depends on our debt payments to prop up their middle class. Chinas economy also depends on our country to buy their goods. Take away either of those and they're in big trouble. Short of us attacking them first there is no way they would go to war against us.
Very true and that's been my exact experience in radiators. However, when I can still buy at least 3 if not 5 Chinese look-a-likes for the cost of one brand name radiator and it only takes but ten mins to change a radiator with but a screwdriver and 10mm socket, I'll stick with the Chinese.
Recently, I read a few posts you wrote about your Chineese radiators Tibo, is it a no-name ebay brand radiator, or are you referring to the Champion ones that have the core made in china, but assembled in USA (allegedly)?? I am in the market for a whole entirely new cooling system .. I wrote a thread about it in the cooling section, if anyone wants to read it and provide suggestions.
Recently, I read a few posts you wrote about your Chineese radiators Tibo, is it a no-name ebay brand radiator, or are you referring to the Champion ones that have the core made in china, but assembled in USA (allegedly)?? I am in the market for a whole entirely new cooling system .. I wrote a thread about it in the cooling section, if anyone wants to read it and provide suggestions.
I think the first was a champion and the second was an Eagle. I thought the eagle brand was the only less expensive one whose crossover tubes were 1" each. I accidentally bought a champion again and found out that their tubes are not 1" wide. So I need to sell that one.
I think the first was a champion and the second was an Eagle. I thought the eagle brand was the only less expensive one whose crossover tubes were 1" each. I accidentally bought a champion again and found out that their tubes are not 1" wide. So I need to sell that one.
gotcha gotcha. which one do you currently use now?
what radiators are a 2 core with wider than 1" tubes?
i think there are a few out there that i've come across. I am thinking a nice 2 core with wider tubes would be a good way to go, instead of a 3 core with narrower tubes??
From what I've read The two row radiator cools better than the three row. The middle row just dissipates it's heat to the surrounding tubes. The Eagle radiator has 2" wide tubes but it might not fit under a stock upper radiator cover.
From what I've read The two row radiator cools better than the three row. The middle row just dissipates it's heat to the surrounding tubes. The Eagle radiator has 2" wide tubes but it might not fit under a stock upper radiator cover.
I put a frostbite 2 row radiator in my trans am last year, so far so good. seems like a quality piece, Fit pretty well but did require some finagling of the rubber mounts
I am looking at this radiator also. Seems like a good unit for the price and maybe a safer bet than champion given all the reported issues.. Anyone else having a good or bad experience with the Frostbites so far?
Ive had both champion and becool radiators, both need some trimming of the rubber isolators and not just the top/bottom ones, but done right both fit w/out needing to hack or replace the upper shroud. Im actually one my second Becool unit, first lasted 11 yrs till a hole punctured a tube. So i bought a champion to replace, 4 yrs later got a deal (free) on a becool unit. So, i swapped, nothing wrong with the champion though.
Depends on your budget.
Champion, Cold Case, Be Cool, Dewitt, and Griffin. The Cold Case and Dewitt are direct bolt-ins. Not sure about Griffin but probably.
I have no experience with Champion in a thirdgen, but I put one in a early '70s Ford 4 years ago and it's been great...
Welp today this happened to me while i was pulling up to the drive thru at In and Out restaurant. Heard a pop, steam coming from the hood, immediately parked , ran back to the window and saw all the coolant all over the ground . It's home now, so i'm looking at two Radiator upgrades between Be Cool and Wizard. https://www.becool.com/product/radia...-trans-be-cool and https://wizardcooling.com/1982-1992-...s-fan-package/ are the two . Anyone have insight on either of these two kits? My car is stock 5.0 automatic. The Wizard one says it doesnt come with the trans cooler, but priced the same as the Be Cool Kit. Insight is appreciated on whether i will experience issues with these aluminum radiators or stick to a Oreilly/Autozone/etc kind of radiator.
After looking at all these fancy aluminum radiators, I ended up just going with an OSC 951 stock replacement for my LS swap. Rock auto and amazon sell them. They appear to be very well made and of good quality. I am using a set of LS1 fans I got for $50 with it and I am hoping this will keep everything cool for less than 200 bucks.
I have been swapping in a new 383 on my '86 and I had bought one of the chineesium 3 row. For the price I thought if it'll work for a while, like most say they will eventually leak, that will get me by long enough to save for a good one (since I have dumped thousands at the time on the swap and interior/exterior work). Well, just the other day it was nice enough to finish up on a few of the things I had left to do (radiator was 1),so I started to put it in, and the input bung threads were crap on the tranny line to the radiator. had to clean up the threads with a die on the line nut, but the aluminum wouldn't even take the tap correctly on the radiator, so I just bought another stock style from advanced. No problems. Perfect fit. brass inserts for the tranny lines-perfect, smooth going on. lifetime warranty. Even came with the adapters for it (didn't need them). Just no caps-had to reuse your own. 80 some bucks on sale. Everyone says it will work fine. I see averages of 20 years out of these unless you have another cooling issue, so with a stock camaro, i would think this is a no brainer.
Big Thanks to General Disorder for his recommendation on DeWitts Aluminum Radiators. After speaking with a Tech at DeWitt, the 82-92 Firebird Trans Am was not listed, but the 1982-1992 Gen 3 Camaro Direct Fit Radiator, Tech John Confirmed Fitment and ordered it. Installed the Radiator Yesterday, Fit like a Glove using all the GM Stock Components with No Modifications. The Stock Radiator took 2 Gallons to Fill, The Pro-Series Direct Fit Aluminum Radiator took almost 3 Gallons to Fill. I switched the TA over to Evan High Performance Waterless Coolant 10+ years ago, really helped with some of the heat issues the TA experienced. On the way home from the Mechanic in the Sweltering Heat, the temperature Guage was 20 Degrees cooler. Anyone looking to Upgrade their cooling system, would Highly Recommend Dewitt Radiators. This is the one I purchased for my 1985 Trans Am:
1982-1992 Gen 3 Camaro Pro-Series Direct Fit Aluminum Radiator.
Model: 32-1239006A (Black/Auto)
nice! where are ya in Northern New Jersey? I don't know that I have ever seen ya or the car and I travel pretty much all over this area.
I am in Roxbury (between Morristown and Hackettstown), but for example, yesterday i was at a car show In Paterson, and next weekend I will be at the Hackettstown one. Soon will be back at Island dragway for some drag racing passes too.
I am in the area of Bergen County NJ. I have not ventured in your area in sometime, so that is why we have not crossed paths before. Have not done many shows this year, TA has had many issues this year to get through, but finally upgraded the Radiator which has been sitting in a Box for 2 Months. Next major project is the Suspension, Koni Adjustable Shocks and the QA 1 Sway Bar Upgrade Kit.
Thanks for the Reply, the knowledge I can from this site is awesome !!
I think I've come to the conclusion that for the majority of street cars, an expensive aftermarket aluminum radiator is not worth it...
Recently I had a situation where, with my new 383, it was running significantly warmer than the 350 it replaced (for no other changes to the cooling system). With the 350, I was running a 180 t-stat and the temps were holding to 190 max on really hot days with the A/C running. Otherwise pretty much ran at t-stat temp.
The 383 is (obviously) making quite a bit more power than the 350, so I figured I must have been on the hairy edge of the cooling system capability. The temps would get well over 200 in the same conditions. Now, I know 200 is not a dangerous temperature and cars are designed to run that hot from the factory. However, I wanted to get to the bottom of what was happening and wanted the car to run at the temperature I wanted it to, vs it doing whatever.
Dropping the t-stat down to 170 didn't make much difference.
I thought maybe my el-cheapo generic plastic-tank,single-row aluminum radiator (that I bought ~20 years ago for ~$100) was no longer capable of cooling the car sufficiently, so I sprung for a FrostBite three row radiator that had (mathematically) literally double the fin/tube area is my cheapo one.
To my surprise, it made literally made zero difference.
I thought maybe my Stewart "high-flow" water pump was somehow not efficient enough at lower rpm typical driving conditions. So I experimented with a cheapo O'Reilly's pump.
Again, made zero difference.
After more and more searching around online, I happened to come across some old threads where people were discovering that the Miniram intakes had an issue in the front water cross-over where the thermostat would actually bottom out before opening fully. So I went back to measure mine and the thermostat would only open about 1/2 way.
Went out and bought spacer to put under the water neck and boom, the temps came back under control. I'm back to ~190 max with a 180F T-stat in the same conditions (95-100F weather with A/C on). The old 350 must have been just barely getting away with it since I've had that Miniram on there since ~2000.
As "luck" would have it, the wider FrostBite radiator was interfering with one of my electric fan mounting brackets and eventually the bracket wore a small hole in it and it sprung a leak. To get the car running again quickly for an upcoming car show, I put the generic one back in and the car literally exactly the same.
So literally zero benefit to this fancy ~$400 aluminum radiator over the cheapo generic on a 383 that's probably well over 450 ft-lb of torque, in near 100F weather with A/C on.
Even the water pump for that matter... the Orelly's pump is still on the car.
Any rate, I still have the FrostBite. At some point I'm sure the generic one will fail so I'll just probably aluminum solder repair the FrostBite and put it back on the car.
I think I've come to the conclusion that for the majority of street cars, an expensive aftermarket aluminum radiator is not worth it...
Recently I had a situation where, with my new 383, it was running significantly warmer than the 350 it replaced (for no other changes to the cooling system). With the 350, I was running a 180 t-stat and the temps were holding to 190 max on really hot days with the A/C running. Otherwise pretty much ran at t-stat temp.
The 383 is (obviously) making quite a bit more power than the 350, so I figured I must have been on the hairy edge of the cooling system capability. The temps would get well over 200 in the same conditions. Now, I know 200 is not a dangerous temperature and cars are designed to run that hot from the factory. However, I wanted to get to the bottom of what was happening and wanted the car to run at the temperature I wanted it to, vs it doing whatever.
Dropping the t-stat down to 170 didn't make much difference.
I thought maybe my el-cheapo generic plastic-tank,single-row aluminum radiator (that I bought ~20 years ago for ~$100) was no longer capable of cooling the car sufficiently, so I sprung for a FrostBite three row radiator that had (mathematically) literally double the fin/tube area is my cheapo one.
To my surprise, it made literally made zero difference.
I thought maybe my Stewart "high-flow" water pump was somehow not efficient enough at lower rpm typical driving conditions. So I experimented with a cheapo O'Reilly's pump.
Again, made zero difference.
After more and more searching around online, I happened to come across some old threads where people were discovering that the Miniram intakes had an issue in the front water cross-over where the thermostat would actually bottom out before opening fully. So I went back to measure mine and the thermostat would only open about 1/2 way.
Went out and bought spacer to put under the water neck and boom, the temps came back under control. I'm back to ~190 max with a 180F T-stat in the same conditions (95-100F weather with A/C on). The old 350 must have been just barely getting away with it since I've had that Miniram on there since ~2000.
As "luck" would have it, the wider FrostBite radiator was interfering with one of my electric fan mounting brackets and eventually the bracket wore a small hole in it and it sprung a leak. To get the car running again quickly for an upcoming car show, I put the generic one back in and the car literally exactly the same.
So literally zero benefit to this fancy ~$400 aluminum radiator over the cheapo generic on a 383 that's probably well over 450 ft-lb of torque, in near 100F weather with A/C on.
Even the water pump for that matter... the Orelly's pump is still on the car.
Any rate, I still have the FrostBite. At some point I'm sure the generic one will fail so I'll just probably aluminum solder repair the FrostBite and put it back on the car.
I too have had some cooling issues to work out going 350 to 383. My first cooling setup was a 34x19 3 core and dual 16" 3,000 cfm fans. Lets just say that was a flop. Under load it overheated at speed. I added flaps to the shroud. Still overheated. I yanked the shroud and made brackets to mount the fans without the shroud. Determined that it needs a strong mechanical fan even at highway speeds at times to stay cool. I then pulled that radiator and put a TYC stock replacement and a mechanical fan with a shroud back on it. That cooled it down to 199°F at the hotest and it would hold 185°F at highway speeds. Within a short time the TYCs core exploded. A tube fractured and was leaking. I just installed an Ebay 31.5x17 3-core meant for the van. The stock shroud fits it. It will not run hotter than 185°F with a 170°F thermostat now. Going down the road it runs 176-182°F. It made me realize that somebody needs to make a decent quality 2" thick core radiator for this thing as well as OE replacement shrouds. The ONLY way to get one to cool is to keep it simple and keep the mechanical clutch fan fan.
I think I've come to the conclusion that for the majority of street cars, an expensive aftermarket aluminum radiator is not worth it...
Recently I had a situation where, with my new 383, it was running significantly warmer than the 350 it replaced (for no other changes to the cooling system). With the 350, I was running a 180 t-stat and the temps were holding to 190 max on really hot days with the A/C running. Otherwise pretty much ran at t-stat temp.
The 383 is (obviously) making quite a bit more power than the 350, so I figured I must have been on the hairy edge of the cooling system capability. The temps would get well over 200 in the same conditions. Now, I know 200 is not a dangerous temperature and cars are designed to run that hot from the factory. However, I wanted to get to the bottom of what was happening and wanted the car to run at the temperature I wanted it to, vs it doing whatever.
Dropping the t-stat down to 170 didn't make much difference.
I thought maybe my el-cheapo generic plastic-tank,single-row aluminum radiator (that I bought ~20 years ago for ~$100) was no longer capable of cooling the car sufficiently, so I sprung for a FrostBite three row radiator that had (mathematically) literally double the fin/tube area is my cheapo one.
To my surprise, it made literally made zero difference.
I thought maybe my Stewart "high-flow" water pump was somehow not efficient enough at lower rpm typical driving conditions. So I experimented with a cheapo O'Reilly's pump.
Again, made zero difference.
After more and more searching around online, I happened to come across some old threads where people were discovering that the Miniram intakes had an issue in the front water cross-over where the thermostat would actually bottom out before opening fully. So I went back to measure mine and the thermostat would only open about 1/2 way.
Went out and bought spacer to put under the water neck and boom, the temps came back under control. I'm back to ~190 max with a 180F T-stat in the same conditions (95-100F weather with A/C on). The old 350 must have been just barely getting away with it since I've had that Miniram on there since ~2000.
As "luck" would have it, the wider FrostBite radiator was interfering with one of my electric fan mounting brackets and eventually the bracket wore a small hole in it and it sprung a leak. To get the car running again quickly for an upcoming car show, I put the generic one back in and the car literally exactly the same.
So literally zero benefit to this fancy ~$400 aluminum radiator over the cheapo generic on a 383 that's probably well over 450 ft-lb of torque, in near 100F weather with A/C on.
Even the water pump for that matter... the Orelly's pump is still on the car.
Any rate, I still have the FrostBite. At some point I'm sure the generic one will fail so I'll just probably aluminum solder repair the FrostBite and put it back on the car.
The reason the 3-row radiator made no difference is because you did not increase airflow, which is necessary when going from a single row radiator to a 3-row. Larger tubes make a bigger difference than more rows. Those modern 600hp Camaros have single row radiators...
The reason the 3-row radiator made no difference is because you did not increase airflow, which is necessary when going from a single row radiator to a 3-row. Larger tubes make a bigger difference than more rows. Those modern 600hp Camaros have single row radiators...
The car is actually an early 2nd gen, so with the large open mouth grill and the radiator sealed to the radiator support, there's no lacking for air flow through the radiator.
09-17-2016, 11:09 AM
, ran back to the window and saw all the coolant all over the ground . It's home now, so i'm looking at two Radiator upgrades between Be Cool and Wizard. 
