AustinT

Does the prominator need a memcal? I am about to buy a 730 ecm and it does not have a memcal. From what I understand from the posts the prominator I wont even need the memcal. Is this true. Thanks

The_Raven

I am sure there is more to it than what I will write but the way I understand it is that you will need a MEMCAL, for the other "end" of it, the KS filter, the PROMinator just replaces the PROM, where the engine tune (program) is.

MrBill

That's exactly right. It ONLY replaces the PROM, where the engine cal data is stored. Anything else that was there before a prominator is installed MUST be there after.

By the way, field testing is going very well. There is one unit "out there" that has been going and going and going. I'm not sure how many bin downloads he's done so far, but I know he's having way too much fun LOL. I will be sending two more units out for testing next week. In the meantime I am working on building up parts stock so that hopefully the wait won't have to be too long. Initially I will probably be able to build about 10 at a time, so filling orders "might" be a little slow to start.

Bill

The_Raven

Oh yeah that was the main reason why I clicked on this thread for a time line update. LOL I can't wait to get my hands on one, my biggest problem right now is finding a program that I can use for my engine .bins, since the 60*V6 (FWD .bins) don't seem to have a whole lot of support at this point, and I'm still trying to learn about what makes an .ecu file an .ecu file. But I think this is leading to a different topic....

wjbecker

Hi bill becker here
newby never burned
I read this at bills site---

NOTE: PROMinator is NOT approved for use on emissions-controlled vehicles, therefore it is ONLY legal for off-road use!

does the program make it not legal
or does the prominator?
I intend to tune my gta one way or the other but can someone set me straight please.

I have 89 gta street car 350 tes headers dual cats
edelbrock exhaust,mds ign,fuel pres reg,hypertech stage2.
buying wonderbar and sfc's from tds
soon. saving money for engine mods
which include edelbrock centerbolt 60cc heads ,crane roller cam,edelbrock
tpi manifold.
I do runs at the track to see performance feedback . I love my car
Had it since 1991 and all(i think)of my upgrades have a 50 state legal tag.
I am keeping all emmissions controls.

the possability of having more than one program available is cool
highway or race.

I live in nj and dont know auto modification laws I have been to the track and there must be much worse
offenders than what i am attempting.

does anyone have experience with
my type of situation?were you able to pass emmission testing?is there a method to ensure good emmission controls?after heads and cam installed
and chip tuning are my emmissions
going to be much worse ,a little or not at all > nj now has dyno emmission testing?
please help and thank you in advance.
count on me buying a prominator
I can wait longer than the other guys
but i am still itching.
merry xmas

Colt

wjbecker,
My '89 Formula 350 passed emmisions. Here's what's been done to the car.

AFR 190 Heads
Accell 219 Cam
Edel. Headers
High flow cat.
Exhuast air pump removed
T56 Manual transmission
Stock intake manifold components (will be changed soon)
Somewhat custom chip (as custom as you can get without dyno or road tuning the car)

In Chicago, we have the cassis dyno emmisions testing, and my car was able to pass. You will need to have cat converters. I doubt the car will pass without them. Also the engine should be in good running condition (no dead cylinders, no missing, no burnt valves, etc...)
The car should have no problems passing.

MrBill

As far as the disclaimer, it's not a matter of whether it passes emissions tests or not...it's simply a violation of FEDERAL (not just state!) regulations to modify emissions-controlled equipment, unless the device being installed has a CARB certificate. At least that's my understanding...but I really haven't researched the laws to any great extent.

Just covering my own behind.

9c1Caprice

I hope this works well. This would really cut the cost of my planned engine build.

MTPFI-MAF

Ok I think that this Is One Killer Project, and applaud Craig Moates, Mr. Bill, and Mr. Mangus on Good Sports man ship (for lack of a better word)This is how good products and Services become a reality.
Even though I am new to Prom Burning and will be getting the PROMinator when ready and learn how to tune correctly I know that if any problems Just to post a question on the best ThirdGen Forum Ever(thirdgen.org) and that eventually I will get the answers I Seek. Now I have spent the last 3 weeks just reading posts in the DIY-Prom board the more I read The more I get comfused (since i have yet to burn a chip and have no hands on experience yet.)
Like I have a 1985 Camaro With the 870ECM Every time i post a question about how to burn chips for the 870 (eprom type 2732) I get the Switch to the 165ECM or go speed density debate, I wish some of the others on these boards would share the same (sportsman ship like Moates, Mr. Bill, and Mr. Mangus and just help you with what I want and share some know how not what they want!! I don't want a 11.5 second car I just want to be able to tune with a 870 for slightly better driveabilty and bolt on upgrades untill i have a better grasp on this. So for this post is to give you guys a STANDING OVATION!!! You Rock

Now Please Tell Me If This Will Work on The 870' Ecm I see one post on the 870 In this Post eariler but didn't quiet understand it.

I know that newbies can be a pain but everyone was a newbie Once!!

Thanks for letting me vent!!

northern-tpi

This is a question to some of the more experienced programmers for this thread. I have a C3 ECM and I am hoping to get the prominator. WOuld it be advantageous to upgrade my ECM to a P4 to make programming easier or is it just going to be a larger hastle??? Thoughts please....

Craig Moates

Yes, it should work fine on an 870 ECM based on what I know.

Get all you can out of your C3, then use that experience to decide what to do next. You can do lots from where you're at. Big thing with the newer PCMs is the higher data rate for datalogging.

northern-tpi

Thanks Craig,

I am keeping a watch on the prominator site for the pro version to be released. Hopefully in a month or so. My car is in storage and badly needs a new program for it. Extensive upgrades have made the stock 350 chip useless.....

MTPFI-MAF

Thanks Craig i am glad that I finally found some body that understands that You need to learn to walk before you can learn to Run. don't get me wrong Most Everybody in the forums are very cool people that have a very Good knowledge of DIY Programming. I am almost afraid to post any questions for when I do most answers are to switch to the (165ECM) or (SD) If ya throw to much at a newbie to quick it will most likely confuse them and scare them away from Learning it. am not a Newbie to engines Just ECM and Prom Tunning. Now that I finally have a camaro again, I want To be able to drive more than 20 Miles with out pulling over and getting gas, so It is time since this Car already has a 1985 TPI that I learn How to Tune Proms and such. So I want to learn the basics first, then with that knowledge learned there I will be more confident to take on a more challanging Step. The PROMinator Will make this eaiser You all ROCK

well now that I am done rambaling I just Want to thank YOU Craig and EveryOne for their knowledge and Help.

anyone With any 870' Knowledge please PM me info lol

rsc350

been a while... how bout an update? I need to get my hands in on this, Just got a new cam in my car and its running ok, but since the swap... bout 40 miles to half a tank, dont see how that is possible, i aint tellin the ecm to throw more gas in there, but that tank is drainin a heck of a lot faster than it used to. Tuneing is a must and I'm in a situation where I have to repurchase my PP2 software, but this made me hold off on that, I would much rather have this, and fund fellow 3GO'ers than xtronics again.

Craig Moates

Hee hee! Muahaha!

(in schoolyard taunting voice)

"I've got a Proooominaaaaator! Nanny nanny boo boo!"

Bill sent me one to test out on the 165 platform. I'll give good feedback on how it works out. Looks pretty slick! I'll try it out this weekend.

MTPFI-MAF

Hey Craig Moates Did your mom Teach You To Share

Well any ways I can't wait to hear how it works, Please give the most informative feed Back. Also I was wondering if Bill has spoken with anyone regarding making TunerCAT RT Work with This.

northern-tpi

Hey Craig,

I think I am as pumped as you are about this prominaor. I also have the 165 ecm so I am eager to hear the results and your feedback. Please keep us all in the loop.


:lala:

vexter

iTrader: (3)

Me thinks Craig has inadvertantly painted a bulls-eye on his chest!

I know you said you weren't going to do any testing until this weekend, but do you have any updates yet?

Craig Moates

Update: Yes, it seems to work in my 1227165 6E setup. Haven't taken it for a long ride yet, but I don't expect any problems.

Fitment is a little bit of an issue, but I don't think it's anything that can't be dealt with pretty easily. I'll post some pics here shortly.

MTPFI-MAF

Ok Craig I have a question. is the Prom on the PROMinator permanent or is it removable using one of your adapters.

Craig Moates

OK, you've asked for it, so here it is: The first "Prominator Review"

http://www.moates.net/gmecm/prominator/

Enjoy!

swerve-driver

Must........have..........Prominator...........

Thanks for the preview!
S-D

MrBill

There is no "PROM" on the Prominator board. It uses a flash ROM, eliminating the PROM...which is where the name came from: "PROM elimINATOR". Clever ain't it. LOL

The Prominator board itself will attach directly to Craig's adapter where the EPROM would normally sit for the P4 ECM ('49, '165, '30...etc), for C3 ECM apps ('7747, '8746...etc) it will attach directly to the ECM main board, again where the EPROM would normally sit. There are no removeable parts on the prominator board itself, aside from the parallel port ribbon cable.

And for an update...still working out a minor bug, in the process of updating two test units, should have results in a week or so. The only real issue left is that we've ran across an IBM Thinkpad that it doesn't like.

Finished the initial logic for the Pro version tonight, so far things are compiling just fine. Still a little software work to do for the Pro version, should be ready to test it by this weekend.

Updates should start coming more frequently now.

Thanks for the testing help Craig! That was cool hearing the tires light up in the driveway over the phone! LOL

chevyhacker

I've been testing a prototype in a C3 ECM ('8746) in my 83 Cross-fire Camaro. It doesn't require the socket to fit in the C3s, so the fit is better than the pics in Craig's review.

The ability to drive, log, pull over, make changes, and be driving again in 30 seconds is amazing - I've never used emulation, so I can't comment on the comparison, but I love this thing.

I was a total PROM newbie before my Prominator - I never burned a prom using a conventional burner - I simply loaded the bin in TunerPro, made my changes, and off I went - like Craig mentioned - the Prominator software is a no-brainer.

Tech Article with Prominator Pics

jeepguy553

Cool article. Where did you put the wires on the board for that 9-pin serial output to ALDL?

MrBill

The DB9 ALDL connector in his article connects to his HAM board. HAM stands for Harness Adapter Module. It's an adapter I made to convert a 7747 or 8746 ECM to mate with the Crossfire wiring harness. See http://misterbill.homeip.net/aboutham.asp , maybe that'll help make more sense. The picture on chevyhacker's article that shows the DB9 is with the HAM installed in an 8746. The HAM board has the RS232 translation circuit (1 transistor, 2 resistors) required for WINALDL built onto the board, so all that's needed is to "hang" a DB9 out the end of the ECM to connect directly to the PC serial port.

MTPFI-MAF

Now what do i do If the laptop dosen't have a parallel port. I was going to go buy a new LapTop but 90 percent of the good ones don't have a parallel port just 4 usb ports. the only Paralle port to usb adapter i see only convert Usb to Paralle Centronics conector(printer)

chevyhacker

If you look at the business line laptops and not the home line laptops they almost always have a parallel port and a serial port.

MrBill

MUST have parallel port! Prominator won't work without a parallel port.

sbc350

Any new news? When can we buy these badboys? I cant wait.....

I got some cash burning a hole in my pocket!

lol..

Just curious.

anyways , I appreciate and I am sure everyone else here does, all the hard work you guys are doing to create this product.

:hail:

MrBill

In the process of testing Pro version right now. I'm also fine-tuning the board for a production run. We should be able to start taking orders very soon...a week or so.

88305tbi

woohoo! woohoo! woohoo!:rockon:

N8MAN1068

nice
is there an official waiting list? any ideas on pricing?
i can't wait to get one!

Ken73

Yes, the Standard version (non-tune-on-the-fly) will be $175, and the Pro version (tune-on-the-fly) will be $275. If you need it installed, you'll ship your ECM to Bill and he'll install it for $25.

We're hoping to have both of them in actual production within a few weeks (possibly less?)

There's no "waiting list" - but if you'd like to start one, you're welcome to e-mail me.

Ken

MrBill

I think it'll be a little sooner actually.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Does that $25 installation go for any ECM? I have an '8746 and was under the impression I'd need an adapter as well. Will you do the full install for this as well?

chevyhacker

I'll let Bill answer on the cost side, but the '8746 doesn't require an adaptor - the prom is removed and the prominator soldered in its place.

Ian

9c1Caprice

MMMmmm Prominator.

MrBill

Thanks Ian.

For some reason I couldn't reply to this yesterday...tried twice and it failed both times. Wierd.

Hang on Homer...soon. LOL

N8MAN1068

I'm sure some sort of wiring/soldering diagram will ship with it? i'd like to try to put it in myself.

that is so cool....and best of all, tax refunds come out soon!

Davey Palmer

Is a site I can go look at this. I have a '91Z28 with a custom built SDPC engine. 350 w/FastBurn heads. At a mile hi in Denver it has245lbft/345hp at the rear wheels. Want to do a little tuning of my own. $500 dyno time at a time gets spendy.

Davey Palmer

Is a site I can go look at this. I have a '91Z28 with a custom built SDPC engine. 350 w/FastBurn heads. At a mile hi in Denver it has245lbft/345hp at the rear wheels. Want to do a little tuning of my own. $500 dyno time at a time gets spendy.

Ken73

Okay guys, the time has come; we've got the production boards in and parts. We'll be shipping soon (within a week or two!) So we've decided to go ahead and take "pre-orders" (where you pay up front, and you will be the first batch of people to receive your Prominator) and we're also putting people on a "list" (where you will pay for it when it's ready to be shipped to you, but you will be AFTER the people who have already paid for theirs, obviously.) There won't be any physical difference between the two batches - they are all the same.

Go to the order page to order one, whether you are pre-ordering or want to be on the waiting list.

The production run has the 8-position image switcher capability built in. You can either buy our small panel-mount switcher (no display) or Craig's box-mount (with display) switcher to use. They are both compatible. You must specify whether you want this option or not! There is no charge for this option; only the switch! You can order it without the switch and it will function as a single-BIN Prominator until you get your switch.

When you order, you need to specify:

Vehicle/Year
ECM (part number; i.e. 1227165, 1228746, 1227730, etc.)
Chip size (27128, 2732, 27256, etc.)
Whether or not you want the BIN switcher option (our switch is $15, or you can buy Craig's with a display for $25 through www.moates.net as well.)
Standard ($175) or Pro ($275) version


We can't be held responsible if you get the chip size wrong, so be VERY SURE you have the correct chip size! If you're unsure, ask here on Thirdgen; someone knows! That's why we ask for your Vehicle and Year - so we can double check with you to make sure you have the correct ECM and chip! (As many members here know there are all kinds of upgrades!) Also, if you are unsure whether the Prominator will work with your laptop or not, PLEASE CONTACT US! We have tried to test it on laptops as slow as 133Mhz up to 1+ghz. YOU MUST HAVE A PARALLEL PORT for this to work! The current Prominator does not have USB functionality! (It might in the future, however.)

Also for those of you who have asked - the Prominator does NOTHING about datalogging or ALDL. That's entirely up to you. This device simply replaces the "memcal" chip and allows you to program it right on the ECM without removing it or erasing it. With the Standard version you will have to PULL OVER to program (good for single-users,) but the Pro version allows you to tune-on-the-fly (meant for professionals who have someone else to drive for them while they tune.) DO NOT TRY TO TUNE AND DRIVE BY YOURSELF WITH THE PRO VERSION!!!!

Currently we accept PayPal and checks/money orders. E-mail Bill for details.

Also, we are constantly improving the software for the PC - making it faster AND better. We wll also be working with Mark and Tunercat to get it implemented into their software for easier tuning. The software is ALWAYS free! Updates will be available through the website. Software improvement suggestions are also appreciated so if you see a better way to do things, feel free to e-mail either of us!

Visit us at: http://www.prominator.com

Mangus

Good work guys! Congrats on the launch! :-D

TRAXION

Any pics of a Prominator installed in a 730?

Tim

MrBill

I have a 730 here, I'll get you a picture as soon as I can.

MrBill

novadk13

Ok Im gonna prob get one but what exactly does the BIN switcher option do?

Ken73

BIN Switcher allows you to load multiple calibrations. Say one for "valet" mode, one for the track, one for economy, one for letting the kids drive.. etc. Up to 8 images can be loaded on a single Prominator.

Mangus

ken/bill -

innocent question (i know little to nothing about electronics):

the memory in the prominator is flash-based, correct? is there a limit on the number of writes possible to the flash chip (usually there is)?