86ttopbird

I'm finding out that in 86, Firebirds got electronic speedos. I was informed that they were cable operated as well but I guess I'm wrong. Camaro's got them in later years. What I'm trying to figure out is where the code to communicate with the speedo might be. Coolrims also had a Firebird and could be why he had so much trouble. If he was still playing with this I'd tell him to program his chip with bin F and see if his car runs ok with it. I had the exact same issues that he described. Right down to the crappy idling and stalling. So far, i have it running pretty well with the F.bin. It will spin the back tires pretty well when it never did before. Why the ESC code 42 i dont know. DFCO works. Havent done any highway driving to check the other features. The main thing right now is the speedo not working. There must be a solution somewhere, maybe a DRAC module out of a chevy truck

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I think coolrimsatleast tried a couple other bins and none worked for him. Really curious to know why so I can get ths thing working for everyone, but without being there it's kinda impossible. Is it an esc code or est? I don't think it's est from what you're describing (wouldn't be able to spin the tires with no spark control) so something's screwy with the knock control. You have the memcal mounted esc board right? If you removed it check that it's getting good contact.

86ttopbird

yes i am using the memcal mounted knock board. It is seated tightly into the memcal. According to my Haynes manual, code 42 is est. Its really odd that the MAF wire must remain in the stock position in order for the ECM to read it. The speedometer thing, well im stumped. Also other input i found with my tinkering. If i use the offset 8000, car wont run, but using C000, it will. I might try getting another memcal from the junkyard and see what happens then. For some reason the speedo stopped working meaning its not synced with the VSS anymore. Its probably something stupid.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'll correct you on one thing... The base idiot light gauge cluster in the Firebird still used the speedometer cable (at least up through my 1987 FSM). The gauges cluster had the electronic speedo. You may find that you will need to run the VSS wires to both the ECM and to a Firebird buffer box (cross the purple and yellow wires to the box, I don't know why) to get your speedo working, which is how I run my 1991 wiring harness with the 730. Do you have the EST bypass wire in the wrong hole in the repinned ECM? The computer sets the code 42 if a signal is not present (open wire or disconnected) on the EST bypass line. Code 43 is ESC...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ya, I was going to mention the ecm doesn't send the signal to the ecm, but vice versa. So there's no code to look into. Is the vss working in your datalogs or is it just the guage that crapped out? Get ahold of a timing light and verify the timing against what's in the tables.

86ttopbird

Found a plug that was loose on the yellow buffer box thats attached to the ECM carrier. That seemed to do the trick for the speedo.(note to self, make sure all plugs in that damn yellow box are tight!) Downloaded a fresh copy of the (L) bin and did a comparison with an 88 trans am bin. Copied a few critical things as instructed and it works well now. Oh the EST bypass wire isnt touched according to the re pin chart, so i left it be. According to my datalogs, the VSS is getting a signal through to the ECM.

86ttopbird

well I am out of ideas on why i keep getting a code 42. I checked both ends of the wires in question with an ohmmeter. Complete continuity so the circuit is not open yet the ECM still sets this code. I'm really ripping my hair out over this one. It doesnt make sense. Everything is right, all wires in the correct pins, no breaks in wires and still. I even re-seated the PROM chip and same thing. Maybe this ECM is bad i dont know.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Updated bin, xdf & adx for DIS igniton in the attached zip file. See this thread for details on part swapping. Also has a few datalogging features I've been working on like horsepower and torq estimates.

Edit- see post #174 for files

86ttopbird

ooohhh boy!! DIS!! Gimme!!

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ok, revised the DIS bin. Hopefully for the last time.

The XDF and ADX are compatible with any $6E bins, not just DIS so they're a worthwhile upgrade for anyone that wants to get a power guestimate for their car. Some feedback on the horsepower calc. would be greatly appreciated, especially by anyone with actual dyno time.

boyerfsdp45

All these elements are they ready to employment, mount even, because in france it does not exist of machine to reprogramme American cars, and parts are rare. Translators i am not a very great aid, therefore understand all the manipulation is very difficult . Thank you.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

It won't plug right in, you will need to repin the ecm connectors using the chart provided on the first page. It's not nearly as intimidating as you may think though. All you need is a 1227165 ecm, a 27sf512 eeprom and something to program it with like a willems programmer. Or if you can't get any of those things at a decent price I may be able to help you out. I have a spare '165 sitting around.

boyerfsdp45

which is the profit for my 2.8L, if it's good i want you help me for have somes reprogrammeds parts

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

PM sent.

86ttopbird

The issue with the code 42 has been solved. The ECM was bad. I didnt mess around. I went straight to Pep Boys and got a reman, plugged it in with my memcal and presto! No code 42 since then. I also got a reman dizzy too. The old one looked like total crap and the reluctor was cracked. The reman ones are fitted with a new style reluctor that doesnt crack. I got a T-bird MAF today for $5. I love my local U-pull yard. I will be switching to $6E soon. I want the fuller featured code mask. So I have the car running well with $32B the only issue I am still having is at part throttle around 1200 RPM I get a dead spot with some sputtering but it clears up in the higher RPM range. This is a mystery. Anyone might have some input as to what might be going on there? Looking at the datalogs, I dont really see anything that far out of the ordinary. One other thing, in the instruction post for installing the T-bird MAF it says to put the MAF signal wire into pin C11 but all the 165 ECM pinouts i have found say that MAF signal input is in B12. I'm a little lost on that one.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

TPS can develop a bad spot in the resistance coil... Try a new one and see what happens. Glad you finally got rid of the code 42, though.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I had to change the read location to C11 because there's a pullup resistor on B12 that interferes with the signal. Check out the power estimate with the latest ADX.

86ttopbird

Ok thanks bl85 for clearing that up. I was looking at the code and figured that but wasnt sure. Work will commence today.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ok, updated the DIS files once again. Apparently someone found it was unuseable for some reason although I didn't have a problem with it, so I refreshed it and uploaded it again.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

"The compressd (zipped) folder is invalid or corrupted". What program are you using to compress it? is it missing the file extension? do you mind emailing the not-compressed files to me? you should have my email from the chevy power book.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

It's 7zip, but I can unzip it with xp. Pm me your adress again.

ttypecamaro

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FYI... These bin/xdf/adX files require TunerPro V5 beta (for those still using V4)

bl85c

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Something I think I need to reiterate is that these bins are far from perfect and will require you to do some tuning to get it running right with your motor. My induction/exhaust and the rest of the car is pretty far from original and I can only make guesses at what will run properly with the average otherwise unmodified v6.

That said learning to tune can be frustrating, but rewarding when you get it running properly. I started out with what ford had in their maf tables and wasn't getting very good results so I figured it must have been a fluke of my induction, but the tbird maf is actually measuring very different from what ford came up with. Atleast on our cars. After speaking with another member who has the stock firebird induction (exc. tbird maf) I've decided to release another bin with corrected tables for everyone.

If you're looking to get your maf tables tuned the method is to datalog steady state at various airflows in, say, 5 g/sec increments and adjust what's in the maf tables by dividing the current BLM at that airflow by 128 and multiplying that airflow by the product, then smoothly blending the curve. This gets you very close after 3-4 sessions and a wbo2 really isn't needed as long as your current o2 sensor is in good shape. Ideally you want the BLM to be +/- 2 from 128 across the board. If you run out of headroom in one table and max out the scalar for it (say 15 is the scalar for #1) then you can raise the scalar to increase the max g/sec in that table. Be sure to copy the old values before changing the scalar because the scalar will change the values in that table universally.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Here's a treat for anyone that wants spark control above 4800rpm to say... 6400rpm. It's a rather simple trick called the NTRPMX mod (thank you tequilaboy ) and gives us real world control where our 'lil motors need it most. By inputting NTRPMX into the main spark table rpm refrence you get a fixed resolution of 25rpm for a main table that spans 0 to 6400rpm. The included XDF and bins are already adjusted for NTRPMX and have improved maf tables as promised. The "2.8 v6 '165ecm $6E (DIS2).bin" bin is for DIS users and "2.8 v6 '165ecm $6E (Dist).bin" is for distributor.

You will need an analog 70mm t-bird maf found on late '90's t-birds (mine was off a '97) to use $6E. Repin ecm pin B6 (maf signal) to pin C11 then cut the old maf connector off and splice t-bird maf connector pin A to power wire, pin B to ground wire, pin C also to ground wire and pin D to signal wire. You can slip a piece of rubber 3" tubing connector over the large end of the maf to get it hooked up to the air filter/duct. Knock sensor required because of highway enlean and it will set a code without it.

86ttopbird

This is the best tune to date. All you might have to do is tweak your O2 constants. Those new MAF tables are right on the money. I have this bin almost dialed in. I'll email it when I'm done. Might help get this dialed in for Firebird guys who have pretty much stock inductions.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Updated the NTRPMX bins- I think I have the random tcc unlock solved now. Had a few things mislabeled thanks to an old $6E hack. Also found out that the F1ZE injectors were the cause of my mysterious wot leanout. Anyone using F1ZE's should set their wot fuel vs rpm around 65% for correct fueling, otherwise use what's in the latest bins.

P.S. I also changed the formula for the horsepower estimate in the ads to make it a little more accurate.

funstick2

You have to do one of 2 things to get a ford MAF to work with this ECM. Change the pull up resistor value from 1K ohms to 10K ohms inside the ECM or build a Op Amp follower circut. The Ford maf does not output enough current to drive the GM sensor input correctly. at best with all the output the Ford opamp driven output can muster is about 1.8 volts vs the factory 5v output from the Factory Bosch meter. Easiest thing to do is try to find a good factory or reman MAF. I'll keep joking about finding a good TPI maf.

86ttopbird

Or just do what bl85 did and change the pinout location. I believe its now on what would be the MAP sensor input pin.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

LOL. I'd hate to do all the wiring for the relay & stuff to still just have a crappy TPI maf. Just wire power, signal & splice the grounds together on the ford maf and vola!

I think the name you've chosen might rub some people the wrong way, esp. since he's deceased.

86ttopbird

The Ford MAF works just fine on my Firebird. All it took was to wire it up per the posted charts, and some updated MAF tables in the PROM, and it works BETTER than the factory one did. Apparently the stock 165 signal pinout had a pullup resistor that was screwing with the signal. A move to a different input,(my research shows this to be what the MAP sensor signal would use) and that problem is non-existent. The voltage issue was taken care of in the PROM if I have done my homework right and from speaking to the author of these bin's.

funstick2

ROFLMAO look how long the name has been registered.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Wow, that got taken out of context. So much for a simple observation.

Anyway, I'm thinking of doing something along the lines of BAUJP or SAUJP with $6E. Stuff like ecm based nitrous control (which I'm already using on my own stuff), extended spark tables (also already done), map input for some stuff like spark tables, rewriting airflow stuff in double value for larger maf's, maybe launch mode for 6E or a simple speed based launch retard... what do you guys want?

grassyflats

wow
another subscriber
learning is cool

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

Closed loop PWM wastegate control? A proportional term is obviously required... probably too much to ask for an algorithm with derivative and integral terms. Back to reality, you might be able to borrow something from Code $59.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

That might be a strech... but it would be easy to borrow stuff elsewhere. Keep in mind that I don't have alot of space to work with, 6E is pretty packed. Even getting rid of the self test stuff isn't going to free up a ton of space.

coolrimsatleast

Well, it looks like there's some updates to download and burn to a chip, and a few more wires to re-pin differently.

I was busy the last month, but hopefully this weekend I'll get around to checking my MAF wires.

I installed a new MAF, drove about 400 miles, and suddenly it ran like crap and the engine light was on throwing a 34. I need to put the old one back in to see what the difference is, but if I'm lucky I have a bad wire that's screwing them up.

coolrimsatleast

Ok, I was all happy for the last 360 miles because I was getting around 29mpg again I think. Now it might be dropping again.

I put in my old MAF awhile ago, and the car runs ok again. Cleaned most of the oil out of my KN filter and used some airflow cleaner on the MAF last week, which might have given me the extra mileage. Why it was temporary I don't know.

The last time I tried running this 165 ecm, I had the MAF signal plugged into C11. I think that was with 6E and the ford maf.

What bin and xdf do I need for the stock maf (I have 32B.xdf, 2.8 v6_'165ecm(L)bin), and does the maf go into B12 or C11?

Also what bin and xdf do I need for the t-bird maf (I have...
$6E XDF.xdf,
6E.xdf,
2.8_'165ecm ($6E).bin,
2.8v6_'165ecm 6E.bin,
and 2.8 v6_'165ecm (L).bin
and what pin does the maf go into for that? (or do I need to change the pull-up resistor value in the ecm from 1k to 10k)

Sorry if all that sounds redundant, but it's been awhile and I'm having trouble figuring out the latest and greatest bins, xdf's, and pins to use, and to use them for the stock maf(32B) or ford maf ($6E).

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I don't care for k&n filters. They claim it won't damage your maf when it's oiled properly but I've seen so many cars come in with filters dripping oil or black because they're never serviced.

You need to download the file in post 174 to use the t-bird maf 6E and pin the maf to C11. Everything you need for 6E is in it. You should use the "L" bin with the 32B.xdf for the stock maf and pin to B12.

Ignore the resistor thing. You just need to plug the t-bird maf into C11 for it to work correctly.

coolrimsatleast

Ok, got it unzipped, used the 6E.xdf, went to open bin and didn't see it, selected all files instead of bin, then I saw it. opened it. Loaded the file to buffer. Before I program the chip, are the addresses correct that it's automatically using, or do I need to change them to whatever it was I used before? Anything else look wrong?

I'm going to program another chip with the Lbin/32B with the other addresses I used before to try in case this t-bird maf and 6E doesn't work again.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Are you planning on using DIS? The snapshot you have is the DIS bin... I think. Alot of the values look wrong.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Time to officially announce what I've been up to for the last few months. Power Adder 6E. In other words, boost code! Alot of time has been invested into making sure everything is working correctly and it's 80% there. Unfortunately the last 20% is the most daunting and is going to require some clever work to get it functioning. This is what's finished so far.

Wbo2 input
Extend main spark table
General purpose table for PWM controlled n2o/bov/methanol ect.
3bar MAP input
IAT spark retard table
Launch spark retard
Open loop idle
MAP power enrichment qualifier table

I may change the IAT table to boost retard so I don't need to add a redundant table. That leaves individual bank fuel control, dual maf input and 16 bit maf calc'ing to be done. 16 bit maf calculations are going to take alot of work, but it's needed to keep resolution from going to crap with larger maf's. If I feel it's going to take too much time to complete I may just do the maf stuff quick and dirty so you guys can use it and release the improved maf stuff in a later iteration. Last chance for requests!

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

Can the timing be based on MAP while the fuel still be based on MAF? Best of both worlds for ease of tuning in my opinion.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Already done aside from accel enrich. I was considering map based fuel as a failsafe, but it's more coding than I want to do right now. Probably going to do it in a later edition.

Edit- I was thinking about the IAT table and it should stay that way. Boost retard can be done with the main table, really no need for it.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

With different settings it looks like the launch retard can also be used as an anti-lag routine for big turbos. I'm thinking about doing a launch control feature using the rpm limiter as well, although I'm not certain of the wisdom of doing that with certain power adders.

86ttopbird

Hey Coolrims, I think I may have figured out what your problem is because I had a very similar issue. The chips would program and verify fine but when you put them into the car, the fan would come on and no start. Well after investigating the reasons why, (I am using the printer port DB25) I looked at the BIOS settings of the PC that gave me a good burn and found that the printer port was operating on ECP. The other one that was giving me the bad burns was on PS/2. So go into your BIOS and look at your port settings. Set the port to ECP for the parallel burners. For a USB burner, I don't think this would be an issue.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

If anyone is having problems connecting tunerpro v5 to your laptop you need to adjust the listen silence/timeout to the minimum it takes to connect without getting data errors. For me, it took 17 msec's to connect fairly consistently without data errors but it will vary for everyone. Unfortunately tunerpro isn't very compatible with the '165 for whatever reason so it may take 3-4 tries to get it connected. I wait 5 secs between clicking the connect icon and it will connect eventually.

86ttopbird

I had to set the timeout at 50ms and it finally connected without errors. I usually have to hit the connect button about 4 times.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Drum roll please…

Well this is taking more time than I have right now so here’s the first version of Power Adder 6E. I know there’s people waiting on this so I left out some stuff like IAT spark retard and launch assist while I figure out the best way to set it up. I’m also going to add a second PWM table so people can still use an EGR or add other stuff if they want to. The ADX file has all the fun stuff from NTRPMX and some other data rewritten for nitrous use. As a side note when using the power estimate make sure you have the formula set up properly for your motor and your MAF tables well tuned or it will be inaccurate. If you decide to use dual MAFs please note that you need to figure out where you want your MAF pinned into, right now it's on the 'default' setting of the primary MAF so if someone accidentally checks the bit their car will still run correctly. The repin and various coding changes are detailed in the included zip. See the attachment and enjoy.

Update- Auto trans cars must switch pin C8 to C7 for proper TCC operation and D3 and D10 should both be grounded on A12.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

looks like fun. If 2 MAF sensors are used, does it calculate 2 injPW and add them together?