Mastiff

I'm just getting started with my EBL flash, but I'm so impressed with this already compared to the factory 7747 I was working with before. Once I get this thing close to dialed in, it would be so cool to be able to monitor things or do some datalogging with a tablet or smartphone instead of dragging the laptop out to the car.

A cool bonus to logging on an Android would be the easy ability to log GPS position/velocity and data from the accelerometers.

BobR, have you given any thought to something like this? I know it's a lot easier to talk about stuff like this than to actually make it real. I was told that the newer android versions can interface to the USB port in a more standard way. That might make it quite a bit easier than having to deal with Bluetooth or something, although Bluetooth would be quite cool.

I know there are Bluetooth based apps for android that read the OBDII data...

Scorp1us

Well, you are correct in that the newer phones have USB host mode enabled. The problem is to what degree still varies by vendor. In addition to having the right pins hooked up, there needs to be the proper drivers installed.

Then there is the issue of porting the app. The whole UI would have to change, There is an NDK for android so maybe the communications routines can stay, but it'll substantially have to be done in Java or Qt.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

This has been considered and looked at to see what would need to be done. As Scorp posted, it is a major effort with the entire WUD needing to be re-written in Java. Can leave it in C/C++, but then it becomes hardware platform dependent.

RBob.

Mastiff

Yeah, I understand it's no minor effort. It _would_ be really cool though, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd certainly be willing to pay extra for it (don't expect it for free).

Scorp1us

I'd like to suggest Qt, which is x-platform C++. There will still be some Java, but then you can run the same app on your phone or PC. I'm actually thinking phone is too small, and a tablet is the way to go. I'm thinking the cheap Spark tablet that runs Linux would be the ideal platform. Currently I don't know if there is a way to run Android apps on a PC, but you can run Qt apps on android, so that would be a common base. But it's not small effort.

Mastiff

There would definitely be some design decisions to be made. A smartphone (probably) would not make sense for a fully functional version of WUD, but it sure would be nice to have some basic functionality there, because that's the thing you'll have with you all the time. Basic datalogging, checking flags, switching between stored configurations...

Or, datalog with the smartphone, send the data to the cloud, go to a PC and do some analysis, send an upgraded bin back to the smartphone for upload to the EBL.

Scorp1us

Actually, that's quite a revolutionary idea. The lag would be horrible though.

Since I'm a software engineer, we describe things in terms of "work flow". How does this sound to you?
You connect the APU1 (or whatever) to your phone in emulation mode.
Your phone sends the data to a server in real time, where TunerPro (or whatever) is configured to read it. (buffered or real time) then your buddy on his PC on the internet (home or starbucks) talks to you on the phone making adjustments and posting it back to your emulator. The cellular lag is the problem though It would be impossible to follow in real-time because that lag approaches 1/2 second, never mind the lag with picking it up on the other side.

However I think it would be cool to have a "professional tuning service" where you could pay by the hour and have your data continuously sent to professionals who can make adjustments and ship them to you live, based on your description. In theory, they would only need to keep you driving if the APU1 also had an analog accelerometer in the wideband port. The accelerometer would also avoid errors in the "butt dyno" (you describing performance wrong)

Mastiff

You're already taking it to the next level, which is cool. I was thinking slightly more basic, where any logs you saved would be available for analysis (via the cloud) on the PC side, and likewise the smartphone could pull bins down from the cloud. Not necessarily in real time, but one log file at a time. But, no reason not to allow "in progress" logs to be pulled down, they just may be a little old as you pointed out.

But you just gave BobR a potential new business model: real time (or off-line) tuning with a streamlined method of getting data rapidly back and forth with minimal (ignorant ) user in the loop involvement.

Scorp1us

I always take it to the next level, baby!

There's nothing preventing that model now - that you datalog, email it to someone, then they give you a new bin. Heck if I knew enough I could write a program to do it. But someone already has. Check out the http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=80425 thread.

There is a lot a computer can do to calculate then you just have to keep nudging it. And I can make it damn simple. The problem is there is so much interdependent variation, and every engine is different, even from the factory. But 10 years on there's even more variation in the engine and sensors.

Anyway, since I can make it "damn simple" the reason I took it to "live" is because that's where the paradigm changes.

Mastiff

RBob, is the interface definition for the EBL something you consider proprietary, or could I get it if I wanted to play around? I'm getting into Java for some stuff at work and a friend of mine has done some Android programming. It might be fun just to see what we could do.

Scorp1us

I've been giving this some thought. What the tuning community really needs is just a web-enabled upload/download function. What happens next didn't really matter, but the idea is top have a website that takes all your runs and tables and stores them online forever and generates the best new tables that are automatically downloaded and programmed.

I decided a website was right because of centralized accordions and data management. A mobile app wis not going to add chugging and is going to be harder to support.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

More or less, yes, we don't really want to give it out. The main reason is support. Keeping it in-house allows us to change things without having to worry about what others may be doing.

There are differences in the data stream between the EBL Classic, and EBL Flash. Then between the EBL Flash ECM firmware version 2.0 and 2.2. The EBL P4 and EBL SFI-6 data streams are again different between all four systems.

RBob.

darksurfer11

I know this thread is super old, but this idea is something I would like to see happen and would be willing to pay for it. The ability to permanently mount a tablet in the car and upload the bins via Wi-Fi at home just sounds way to good. I can't be the only person interested in this can I?

my3rd

This could probably be done already due to the new windows surface tablet and its self contained USB port, and since it runs off windows 8 you should be good, just install the driver and transfer tuner pro and EBL software over using a flash drive... another more interesting thing you could try is to install a windows partition on your android tablet and see if you can get the info in that way...

jdarg

I've been using a Lenovo Tablet 2 to tune and log lately, so EBL WUD does indeed work fine w/ newer Windows 8 tablets w/ Intel processors. MS Surface Pro should work too, its essentially the same thing.

Keep in mind it won't work with the less expensive ARM processor based "Windows 8 RT" tablets though. Those can't run "legacy" Windows software.

lakeffect2

So in keeping with with thread, Has anyone mounted a tablet of some form into the car using the EBL What's Up Display (WUD) as a permanent dash display, and eliminated the stock dash.

If so descriptions, how to's and pics please!

Dave

darksurfer11

That is more or less what I would like to do as well, only not to replace the dash. You would need a power source for the tablet and a surface to mount it to/in. I am going to be putting it into a suburban, do it should be fairly simple for me.

Mastiff

Windows 8 tablets appear to be on the expensive side. With Android you could get something for $200, which is worth it. $450+ is not, at least for me. Hopefully over time they'll become reasonable. Then I'll have to hook up my VSS!

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I dont have EBL so im not 100% in the know. I have looked at it and keep saying I need to swap to ebl with my boosted setup. ($59 code in a 7730) So I Have checked it out a little.

If your looking to just monitor with a smart phone can or has anyone tried to get an obd2 program like https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...l.torque&hl=en to work with an obd1 ecm?

I understand obd2 is deff. diff. protocol , etc. but Im sure some of you gurus could reverse engineer something out there for a gui interface etc..

EagleMark

ALDL Droid is in the works and uses TunerPro ADX files as well as tuning with TP XDF files!

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...2318-ALDLdroid

jdarg

I've been working on a bin editor for Android, similar to TunerPro, but probably not quite as fancy at first.

I hope to have the first public release available around the holidays.

darksurfer11

Resurrecting this again, if anyone is following this or looking into it at all, you may want to look into the Asus T100 as it runs full Windows 8.1 and they are pretty cheap (for a Windows 8.1 tablet). I'm thinking about getting a second one to permanently mount in my K5 Blazer.

jdarg

I've figured out most of the EBL datastream (I don't use turbo so my 2bar/3bar rendering might not be right) and have a working Android app prototype that will record a WUD-compatible log, playback WUD logs, and do realtime while plugged into my ECM via EBL's "preferred" FTDI serial adapter. Its still really rough though, more of a personal use thing at this point.

I'd need rbob's blessing if it were ever going to be available for public consumption. EBL is a great product and I can totally understand his concerns about third parties creeping into the picture and I don't want to infringe on anything he is doing. But the world seems to be moving away from Windows and PCs in general.

ios poses a number of issues still because it isn't nearly as "open" as Android is right now.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Does the EBL not use a Tuner pro compatible file for use in Tuner Pro? If that's the case I don't see why ALDLDroid would not work for logging at the very least.

ALDLDroid has tuning capabilities for use with at least GM ECM use, and Moates hardware.

I don't have an EBL to test with, otherwise I would and report back.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There is only the XDF file to edit the BIN via Tuner Pro. The ALDL link(s) are at the same baud rate as the stock ECMs. Either 160 or 8192.

The EBL comm link runs at 57.6 kb, lots of data. If you ever have a vehicle for an EBL system, it is worth a try.

RBob.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I thought there was an ADX file that worked with the EBL as well.

darksurfer11

x2 for getting an EBL, I love mine, I would love to be able to interface my phone/tablet with it for monitoring purposes on the What's Up Display.

Ghettobird52

Ebl flash was honestly the best 'bang for buck' mod i did with my f-body. I had to throw my stock ECM on for smog a couple weeks back and i totally forgot how bad my car ran with out it!!! Studdering and surging for an idle, rpm band boggy and jittery. With 15+ VE runs, and only AE&PE adjustments my car runs like a different car. The price asked is WELL worth it.

Mastiff

I would still really like to see an android interface option. I'd gladly pay extra for it, for the development. Any time I want to mess with the EBL I have to dust off and charge an old junker laptop and hope it still functions. Phone's or tablets are way more appropriate at this point, and having your tools available at a moments notice could be a real bonus too - if something weird happens you can check it out with your phone.

petrolhead

Another thing that I'm looking into, is getting a small car pc and a double din size touch screen to install where the radio is, have the pc operate a stereo, and sat nav, and use it for ebl flash and tuner pro. no more hoping my old laptop wont crash again would sure be nice! I'm not super savy on computers, and I don't know anyone who is, maybe someone here can help. I'd be willing to pay a little extra for that. I've seen where you can pay $1000's for a ready to go set up, but I'm thinking DIY'n it. Any thoughts?

Mastiff

I don't know a lot about what Microsoft is doing these days, but I think you could get a small windows based tablet that would do what you want instantly. Then it's just a matter of making a slick mount setup. I do think you have to be careful about exactly what OS the tablet has. Make sure it's a version that can run regular apps and not only mobile stuff. Hopefully they have a small tablet like that and not just hybrid tablet/laptops.

lakeffect2

I'd be happy to have a way to switch banks without having to always have the laptop plugged in. On the ol' Prominator there was an remote 8 position switch available that could be plugged in.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

We used to sell the Flash Switcher that did this. Hardly sold any at all. Was a small box with a dial to select the bank and a push button to send the command to the ECM. There was a single digit LCD display that showed the active bank.

RBob.

lakeffect2

RBob, if you still have the parts kicking around, I'll take one. I am using the P4 model of the EBL.

Send me a PM for pricing info if available.

Dave

liquidh8

I am doing this exact thing. I have the mini/ micro pc already and the zenarc 7" touchscreen. This will do it all, BT, GPS, etc. But it will allow me to get into the EBL, run the WUD, etc.

petrolhead

I'm looking to do the same thing as well, micro pc and touchscreen. I'm trying to find out though is if I can use a double din touchscreen stereo with aux video inputs and an rca adaptor as my computer monitor. I'm thinking the touchscreen will not work though. Anyone tried it?

lakeffect2

I'll be staying tuned in to see the results of this.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

Amen!


lakeffect2, the EBL Flash Switcher was only available for the EBL Flash, not the P4 afaik.

jdarg, anything new on your development?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I have done it and it is a waste of time. When I did the windows emulation on my android it was extremely slow, and not user friendly whatsoever. Tried countless ways to run full blown windows on the android, and every conceivable method did not work correctly. Mind you, I did this for my own benefit, which is why I never shared it with my thread. If the demand is there ($$$$), RBob might possibly rewrite the code in java to allow for android usage, which I would buy in a heartbeat. However, I wouldn't attempt it without RBob's blessing. Let him do what he has to do, he is way ahead of everyone, trust me. Create the demand, put the word out, and maybe you will get him to bend...

Mastiff

I don't think we were talking about emulating windows. Just buy a windows based tablet in the first place. Maybe I missed a twist in the conversation though.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Twist in conversation? I am using an Android tablet, that is my preference, and that is what is installed in my car, I do not have nor want a windows tablet, where's the twist? Aside from rewriting the code in java, a code that I have no access to, I have tried emulating windows on my android to view the WUD, have tried various installations for full windows on my android tablet, and nothing has worked. Bob needs to rewrite the code. How else do you plan on running the WUD on an android device without an open source code?

Mastiff

I wasn't trying to pick a fight. You said you "tried that", but we had gone off on a tangent about installing a windows tablet so existing software could be used. Agreed, to do this right on android we need new software.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Hey, no fighting intended, we're in this together. If I have any progress I will post it up, but I have spoken to Bob about this already last year, and I do know he may be considering it. But from a business standpoint, it must be cost feasible, which to be honest it should, because the world is leaning more towards android in the years to come...

petrolhead

I'm not looking at using droid anything, but use an actual small windows pc and a touch screen permanently installed. I've done a lot of reading, you can have it run navigation and play music and fm radio. Windows 8 can be installed in a limited form so it boots up very fast, and goes into sleep mode when you turn the car off. You can also Bluetooth it to your phone and use voice commands. Sounds like the best of everything, I just have limited experience, so I need to figure a few things out before I bit the bullet.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I hear ya, but this thread is EBL WUD for Android specific...

liquidh8

This would be pretty awesome too, especially with the android tablets and head units that are available and being used by different members and tuners.

bluevette

My EBL FLASH on my 7" Lilliput touchscreen monitor, running at 800x640 res... can go higher but then don't fill the screen... works great... Iphone 4 for reference...


This is not a cheapo monitor can see in the brightest of sunlight... no fad no washout...





Runs off of a DUAL DISPLAY Dell X300 13" laptop, Win XP, WIFI, 2 hard drives, auto powers off and on (bios on when it sees ac and batch program shuts down when it see's no activity), has a batch that that runs as soon as it see's my wifi and downloads all newer BIN's/LOGS to my home PC for editing, had to remove the magnet in the screen so it would not shut down the dual display when lid is closed. Has dual HD's (second in the CD ROM BAY) full of nice music doubles as a player on screen for tunes to stereo... Don't use it for surfing since its XP and low on security... but can remote desktop to PC at home via WIFI hotspot off IPHONE if need be, pretty much covers it all that way... Just working on a NICE EBL login screen and Corvette screen of the front emblem before startup to add some pizzazz.
May update to a small PINE 64 if I can get a WIN OS to work... would be real nice...


Still wish RBob would make the screen auto size, I know its allot... but... And all the reads/comments above, I think many would pay for your efforts... what would be even MORE KILLER is a REAL WUD... they have them can't see why it can't be done.. would be sick on the windshield.. Heck love my Iphone or Samsung phones HUD at nice even day its not bad...

petrolhead

I just blew one of those by accident. I bought a computer with the lilliput installed in a console and removed from its case. As soon as I get another touch screen, i will be set up also with centrafuse

liquidh8

I have a Lilliput also for my in dash touch screen, same type of deal. The resolution can be a bear to get right.

Mastiff

So it's been a while, anyone successfully gotten WUD running on a cheap Windows tablet? Just poking around, I see windows 8 versions for around $100.