Montecarlodrag

OK, I am willing to test the full flash since I can repair the PCMs if they brick completely.
The PCMs are 411s 100% stock untouched, I just used a bin I have from another car

I will do more testing and report back. If you want to do something in special I can help

Thanks

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Changing the buffer size is not too hard to do. Right now its variable with transmit going up to 4k for frames with no errors, but with a menu option it could be easily selectable. The 4k does trim some overhead away since the header and checkums are reduced, but the change is not huge as you say.

With the AVT the comms are done via a vcom port using binary data frames. Inside the program its all encoded as string arrays for flexibility, but changing the actual comms would require a new class for your AVR to support it.

mecanicman

01/02 0411 v6 pcms are identical to there v8 counterparts, completely interchange able. Also, to access the advanced menu you have to be connected to a pcm, menu will not show up otherwise.

The_Punisher454

Any idea about the 0411 4 cyl S-10 PCM's ?

mecanicman

The 0411 pcm was never used in a 4 cyl application. Not sure what the correct id for those pcms are, I believe they are same as v6 car, but they don't use the segment system like v8.

The_Punisher454

Ok a closer look at replacement part numbers verifies this. I guess that one I picked up thinking it was from a 4cyl S-10 must have been a V6 S-10. the 4cy engine was laying on the ground right in front of the pickup so I just assumed...
But thats cool, there's plenty of 01-02 V6 S-10's retiring to the pick-n-pulls now.

Montecarlodrag

I did more testing with a 1MB PCM from a 2006 Silverado.
The program sees the PCM and connects to it, then it enters Flash mode without problems.
I did a read and it completed successfully. However the file is only 512KB in size, it should be 1MB. I tried opening it with tuning software but it got refused. The file seems to be right but incomplete.

Attached is the file.
I´ll do more testing with E38 ECMs

evilstuie

Hi Dimented,

Has there been any updates on anyone making the cables to do this?
I read on a post somewhere that the actual parts to make one are very inexpensive, but the cheapest cable I've seen is about US$250.
Is there a circuit diagram anywhere to DIY?

mecanicman

I confirmed it tonight by sending some code to a 1mb pcm, but you being able to download a partial file means all the coding and seed/key is the same between the 512k and 1mb pcm(p01 and p59). If dimented24x7 added ability for software to identify pcm type and and download the file size based on that, this software would be able to do all 99-04 v8 cars and all 99-early07 trucks.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Im planning on integrating the tool into Tunerpro-RT. An idea I had was to make the calibration and OS file sizes user configurable, and savable in a local config file. This will allow you to set the span of addresses used for the calibration and OS programmed. Also could have custom keys in addition to a few general algos selectable. This would pretty much cover all the Moto/Freescale 68332 PCMs.

There are some details to flesh out still, but so far given the fact that it also manages to access the 1 MB PCMs means that there are only two basic configurations in the popular PCMs: The blackbox type and the LS1 type. Both have different hardware configs, so the user would need to supply the PCM type to ensure the correct reflash kernal is sent.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The AVT is actually a sophisticated cable. It uses an ARM processor with a built-in operating system that allows it to recognize and interface with the various data standards. The SAE OBD-II data standard is CAN or VPW for GM, and both are very different from either eachother, or typical serial data from a COM port. There is also a lot of intelligence built into the AVT, such as being able to mask out OBD frames from unwanted sources such as the dashboard, radio, BCM, etc. which can be a real headache from the software side. Additionally it also has a USB bridge and FTDI chipset which allows the cable to appear as a simple VCOM port from the outside. A very nice feature that makes it extremly flexible and easy to use. Downside for all the bells and wistles is that its costly at ~$250.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I have been working on an AVR based design. The code is written to work on any various flavors of AVR. I have verified it can do the 1x and 4x block transfer mode. It does the basics right now only using VPW interface. CAN will come at a later date.

It contains a FTDI based USB interface to the host PC so it uses the VCOM drivers.

Currently adding additional functionality to make it suitable to operate with existing software.

ELM gives away a DIY circuit. The software/firmware is the part you are missing. I don't know of anyone giving it away at this point. Mine is working with a lab type environment, I have to add some failsafe features to it. Overall, the hardware is pretty cheap. You can do it with the AVR chip (use Arduino hardware possibly) and add a few transistors and resistors.

neruve

So you have this working properly with with dimented software? Is it able to read/write to the ls1 pcms well at least the 0411?

neruve

Going back to the black box stuff real quick (not too familiar with that) what type of applications does this cover? Trucks, cars, V8/V6, does it cover the LT platform as well? Are there xdfs available for them? are you able to use them with boost like the 0411 stuff?

Sorry for the questions there is just so much information its hard to sort through.

Montecarlodrag

I have seen black box PCMs in V6 and V8 trucks only, cars use a different PCM. LT1 PCMs are different. They are similar in shape and board design but they are a different animal

neruve

Is there specific service numbers to look for? Maybe from like a Vortec Truck? Are their XDFs available for tuner pro?

evilstuie

Thanks for that. It gives me a bit more satisfaction in knowing at least they're not ripping me off with the cable.
In Australia, we don't have any emissions testing on vehicles, at least nothing that would require plugging in to the ECU/PCM and verifying VIN numbers, so what would be the best software to use to flash a 0411PCM with?

I've got a cracked version of EFI live that allows me to open modify and save the .cal files, but does it allow them to be saved as BIN files or whatever the 0411PCM's require as a file type?
In other words, can I just buy the AVT-852 cable and use EFIlive to tune the files, and your flash program to upload them?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

If EFI can edit raw bins, then yes, the tool will do the calibration so long as its a standard 512K PCM. Just open the BIN and flash. Also you would have to check if EFI Live locks the PCM. Feeding it a virgin BIN and saving without editing will tell you what it does. Should be the same afterwards.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

I would need to get a basic listing of the commands used for his cable to support it. If it uses the FTDI then its just a matter of making a new class for the cable that sends the right commands. Junk will need to comment further based on where he is in regards to the development of his cable.

neruve

Thanks for the replies dimented. I'm currently taking a look at the xdfs you have for the 2001 applications. What OS are they designed for? Will they work with the LS platform as well as one from something with a GEN 1 engine like an express van?

Going to get the AVT cable in about one month. However, I do hope Junk's cable alternative works as well. I would also like to make one one if he releases his code and schematics as a fun DIY project.

neruve

For the 852 cable. What is the circuit config needed. It looks like there are several options - http://www.avt-hq.com/852_hw.htm#Config

Thanks!

neruve

It looks like their default config would work correctly. Is it worth while getting any of the other add-ons?

Also, out of curiosity, does your programs work will the 853 (ethernet) version of the cable as well Dimented?

evilstuie

Hi Dimented,

Just about to order an AVT-852 cable bundle and needed to check what config/revision I need?
The guy asked me if I am goin to use the (old) DHP software as he can program it for that, it comes in circuit config "E" which has CAN0, and J1850 VPW.

Will this be ok to use for your program and EFILive?

neruve

Would also like to know if any progress has been made integrating into TunerPro and adding support for the 1MB pcms

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Standard 'E' rev will work for my software. Our PCMs use the VPW standard. The CANs are a nice to have for future stuff, but not necessary for most of the GM stuff you will be doing. I just got the 'E' version myself. Its missing some of the more advanced stuff, but works just fine otherwise.

As far as teh unit itself, I think I got the AVT-852-002. This came with the cables and a black plastic enclosure that seems to hold up fairly well.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

I have the templates that show how to integrate it. I have to take a look and digest it all and then give it a go.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The 853 is not supported at this time. The ethernet version works thru the ethernet port while the USB version uses the FTDI chipset and a virtual com port. The 852 is more flexible, and likely to be in production for longer than the 853.

antuss

I would say get a version with the ADC. This way you can feed in a wideband O2 signal via the AVT and get wideband data properly synced up to everything else while your logging. Super valuable for tuning.

evilstuie

AVT-852-002 cable ordered
Also have a 0411 PCM from a VX HSV Commodore and wiring harness ready to go

So I'll try a grab of the original flash and see what it gives me from there once the cable turns up

Renegade8040

Is there any reason github wouldn't work for this. If not I currently pay for webhosting that I'm not actually using right now so I could set that up for you guys to use. I'm relatively new to the GM engine party and I'm actually swapping an L33 vortec into my Jeep TJ rubicon in the next couple months and having an open source engine tuning solution would make the swap so much better.

evilstuie

Hey Dimented,
The EFI suit only allows you to save to their .ctz format, not bin.


Are there any programs out at the moment that allow you to modify the bin files and save to bin?
What program do you use for tuning the bin files?

scuzz

If yu are lucky enough to have an original copy of Tunercat II, it will save in .cal or .bin format.
I do, if it will help anyone. I can't do anything with efi live files myself.

evilstuie

That would be great if you could

james_adams2006

TunerPro allows you to edit in .bin with the correct definition file. For the '411 PCM, Dimented generated the definition file (.xdf) for any engine/manual trans parameter you could think of wanting to modify and I just posted up a definition file for the basics of auto control tables. These together should give you enough to modify as much as you would normally be able to (and more) with EFI.

evilstuie

Hi James, where are these files stored?

james_adams2006

They are posted up over at Moates. http://static.moates.net/projects/0411/

I just posted up what I have so far for the Auto in this post https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...uto-trans.html

evilstuie

Ok, I found the stock LS1 commodore & auto .bin files online, and used the XDF files to go through with TunerProand adjust the cylinder displacement, turn off vats etc and it all seems to be ok...
I'm still missing some of the basic parameters I know I'm meant to change, mainly, o2 sensors, firing order/banks, knock sensors, and injector flow rate.


Is there any tutorials or sites that look at specifically tuning a SBC 0411PCM using TunerPro?


I'm most likely going to take the car to a tuner, but to get it going at least and safe to drive I'll want to flash a base tune using dimented's software and the AVT with piece of mind.

james_adams2006

What are you looking to change with the O2 sensors and knock? If you're looking to disable rear O2 sensors then thats just disabling the DTC's for the rear O2 sensors.

As for knock retard/counts, there are 5 tables in the Spark Advance XDF that control the amount of allowed spark retard for knock, as well as a few tables for burst knock retard. There is also an option byte flag to set the type of knock sensor in use.

As for injector flow rate, there is a base injector flowrate table defined in the Fuel System XDF. It isn't just a set flowrate, however. It is a table that gives flow rate based on Manifold vacuum (since the higher vacuum creates a higher flow rate).

As for firing order/banks there are 9 tables defined in Fuel System XDF that control bank setting and firing order (i believe this is correct however I havent played with these yet so this is my assumption of the function).

Maybe dimented can chime in and clarify if I missed something or misspoke. As for a tutorial, I don't believe anyone has created one. I know that the '411's did run SBC Vortecs in the '01-'02 Express Vans and a lot of ppl do the '411 swap over to run 96+ vortec SBC in the pickup trucks without much hassle. However, the OS that came on the '411's for the Express Vans is a newer version and is not supported by these XDF's.

evilstuie

So turning off the error codes is all i need to do, the PCM will ignore that there aren't any signals coming from it? Actually now that I'm typing the commodores only have the 2 anyway i think.

I wanted to change it from 2 knock sensors to just one, and use a sbc style sensor instead of ls1.
Ok cool, thanks
Ok, I'll check it out tonight.
Thanks for the help mate.

Also can anyone suggest a good/fair priced mail order tuner who'd be able to supply the tune in .BIN format and knows what they're doing with these setups?

jfreakofkorn

now this thread sparked my curiosity ..


cant wait to see the finally result of this =0)

james_adams2006

Yeah, for the rear O2 sensors its just disabling the DTC's related to them. They are only used for emissions checking anyway, so even if it throws a code for them, it normally has no adverse effect on fueling, spark, etc. since the PCM doesn't use it for any of those calcs (that I'm aware of). After I stated that about the Knock sensors, I kind of figured that you were meaning disable to only one since SBC's only use one. I would think that the option flag for changing the sensor type would be whats needed to change, if the LS vs. SBC sensors are any different... but I have a feeling there the same sensor (however at the moment I'm not positive on that). As for disabling 1 of them, I can't say how that is done yet. I know it can be, but I haven't studied that part of it enough yet to say. I'll try to take some time and see if I can figure that out.

evilstuie

Oh ok cool.

Just out of curiousity, the XDF files.. do they convert the .bin data from hex into tables?
So the different XDF files are essentially just different addresses of the .bin file?
Meaning they are not necessarily complete, just what has been decoded/verified?

Saar

in reference to O2 sensors: there are quite a few applications that I'm aware of that use the rear O2 to make adjustments to overall fuel trim to keep the cats happier.... if this code is one of them, I couldn't say.

james_adams2006

Yes, that is essentially all the XDF file is. It defines a table/flag/scalar value based on the beginning address location, data size (byte, word, longword) and how many pieces of data are grouped together in a row or column in order to create the tables. It also defines a conversion factor so that it converts the hex values into a readable unit of measure (psi, g/sec, etc.). Yes to the second question in that the tables only have what has been decoded and verified. I believe, however, that what has been defined in these XDF files allows you to edit more parameters than any other "paid" tuning software package. The best thing to me about doing it this way is that you can make it do things that weren't necessarily a predefined calibration from GM (say you wanted a Input Speed Sensor on a 4L60E... I know this did come on a few vehicles but I believe it was later models). Anyway, it gives a more flexibility to the tuning options than available with most others. It just takes the time to decode it.

I did a little more digging on the injector fire order question and from what is coded, the firing order is hard coded. What this means is in order to change firing order you change what wires from the PCM goes to specific Injectors in order to alter the firing order. This would be the same for the Ignition Coils, except for with using a SBC with a 4X crank sensor only a regular distributor/coil combination can be used.

So this means that from PCM to Injector they would be as follows: Injector 7 to Injector 4, Injector 2 to Injector 3, Injector 4 to 7, and Injector 3 to 2. All others would remain the same.

evilstuie

Yeah I knew the firing order couldn't be changed, but I think you have to change the bank assignments for items that operate in batch/bank assignments, like o2 sensors for fuel trims etc.
I thought I found the table for it, but the the channels go from 0-7 except one has a 15 value in it, so I'm lost.

james_adams2006

You are correct on the bank assignment. You do have to assign the correct bank to each fuel injector when changing between LS and SBC firing order. As for the bank assignment table it should only use a 0 (Bank 1) or 1 (Bank 2). There should be no other numbers used. As for the dynamic fuel mass compensation table, I'm not sure if this should be altered or not. However, it should only have channels 0-7 used in it.

cjcalhoun85

Let me make shure I am right before I order my 852 cable. I would order revision L in order to be able to hook up a wideband to it for logging? Also would the wideband input into the cable be a linear 0-5v input or what?

james_adams2006

Evilstuie just completely forgot about this (and that I had a .bin file for it), but the '01 Express Vans came with a 5.0L SBC option that used the 12202088 OS. You could start with it and modify the appropriate parameters to use for a larger engine (cylinder displacement, fuel injector size, etc.) as would normally be done.

evilstuie

Is that for x24 coil per cylinder?
Or do you mean just use the tables from that as a basis instead of the ls1 defaults?

james_adams2006

No its for a 4X CKP SBC with a single coil distributor. So it could be used as is by changing cylinder displacement to match that of a 5.7L and updating the related VE tables for that of a 5.7 engine.