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Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Hi Guys,
I am presently tuning a 7730 and these are the injectors in use.
Bosch III : 0280-155-968.
According to Bosch, these injectors flow 310 g/min with N-Heptane @ 43.5 PSI.
With Gasoline, the flow rate should be 3% to 4% greater when compared to N-Heptane.
These injectors should flow somewhere around 319.3 g/min to 322.4 g/min.
1 lb = 453.59237 g.
1 hr = 60 minutes.
When converted to Lbs/Hr ( g/min*2.204623E-3*60), the expected flow range is 41.00 lb/hr to 42.65 lb/hr. The average is 41.83 lb/hr.
I found an Injector Calibration Summary on the Web for these injectors. It was found on a Bosch Dealer Website. I wonder if it was originally developed by Ford racing?
Anyway, the "High Pulse Width" (AHISL) slope is listed as 0.011947 lb/s. In lb/hr this is 43 lb/hr. This is ~ 3 % larger when compared to the calculations that are based on Bosch data.
The Calibration Summary has a "Target Injection Pressure" of 39.15 psid.
It appears like all of the Injector dynamics variables are based off of 39.15 psid?
Any ideas on why the flow rate is higher on the Calibration Summary?
The reference files are attached.
I am working on an Excel sheet that will "map" Ford Fuel Injector parameters to the GM equivalent.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
The use of 39 PSId is likely due to the Ford's lower rail pressure of 39 PSIG.
The only application I know of that uses these in a stock application is by Ford, in the Lightning. Possibly the same supercharged engine when installed in the Mustang, but I want to say the Mustang used a larger injector.
I'm actually trying to find a set of these, becaus ethey would be about perfect for my application. I have a set of low-Z 42/lbs injectors, but I don't think they are working well with my ECM.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Hey Rob, we actually stock these injectors. It turns out that some of the Volvo turbo applications use these injectors as stock as well. Where did you get the info on the offsets? Just curious, as they flow 42lbs/440cc at 43.5psi on our benches so I'm not sure where the 45lb at 44psi came from.
Yes,Ford pressure is 39psi depending on the application.
There is a difference in flow when using heptane as a calibration fluid when flowing injectors on a bench. Heptane has a specific gravity that is lower than fuel. The calibration fluid that we use is specifically from the manufacturer that makes our machines. The specific gravity is about the same as fuel. So they actually flow a little more.
For anyone who needs these injectors we have them in stock, so if we can help you in any way, please give us a shout.
Last edited by southbay08; 11-03-2014 at 05:28 PM.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Hi Guys,
Thanks RBob.
I calculated the expected injector flow with the Ford modeling parameters.
I assume that these are valid for Gasoline as opposed to N-Heptane.
The High Pulse Width (linear flow region) flow calculated @ ~ 45 lb/hr @ 43.5 PSID. This agrees with your data.
My Bosch data based calculations resulted in a flow rate of 41 lb/hr to 42.65 lb/hr @ 43.5 PSI. The exact answer is a function of the Gasoline Density (specific gravity).
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
when I get my bench back together I need to do back to back tests of several test fluids and develop a correction factor for each, including different types of gasoline.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
The test bench data sounds very interesting. The best way to go to answer the question.
It seems like both data sources (Bosch, Ford Motor Sports) would be correct? Unfortunately, there is a significant difference.
Did Bosch make more than one 42 lb/hr injector? I am running the Bosch III skinny injectors. I wonder if the Calibration Parameters within the sheet that I attached to this thread are correct for these injectors?
This thread started because I am presently tuning the VE Tables for my 420 SBC. This engine pulls around 10" Hg at 900 RPM. My problem is the ECM is pulling significant fuel for idle through part throttle. Originally thought the VE Table was really off.
Although the VE Table needs some work, I also have problems with the Injector Constant and Fuel Pressure adjustment.
Injector Constant = 40 lb/hr.
Fuel Pressure = 47 PSIG.
Both of these settings came from the engine dyno run.
If we believe the Bosch Data, the actual flow rate (this setup) should be around, 43.7 lb/hr.
Compared to the Injector Constant, this would cause a 9.25% rich condition. Roughly a BLM of 116.
I started running my car on the street with the dyno tune. My thought was this would be a good start. Not sure now?
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Southbay, Injector Dynamics has been creating the data for Ford Motorsports. The spec sheets are on the Ford web site. The difficult part has been matching a data sheet to the Bosch part number.
Apparently, Muscle Motors has been taking the data sheets and putting the Bosch number at the top. These two sheets match exactly:
M-9593-F302 Calibration Summary (Ford's data sheet)
0280155968 Calibration Summary (Muscle Motors data sheet)
BWilcox posted the Muscle Motors sheet above.
For the injector flow look at the AHISL value, that is the high slope flow in lbs/sec. Multiply by 3600 for lbs/hr. There is additional information in the sheets that compensate for the fuel pressure.
The way I am doing the calculations isn't exact for the way GM uses the injector compensation. But it is close enough. Note that the data sheet data matches how the Ford ECMs use the compensation values.
Back to AHISL for these injectors (skinny green), it is 0.011947 lbs/sec. Which is 43 lb/hr at 39.15 psi.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
hate to bump a 5 year old thread, but here goes.
are these the old green top. Ford injector data? mine have a different number on them, I believe they are from a lightening but I got them used, a long time ago, so who knows.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
I think there's 2 different green top injectors. after posting i found they do call the newer ones green top/monsters. but they are still 42lb made by Bosch. just replace the old style I have? I found this on a random site for the offsets of the older ones.
Ford SVO Green Top 42 lb Fuel Injectors
Ford Part # M-9593-F302
Bosch Part # XL3V-A9A and 280150558
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Are you talking about the green giants? The look exactly like the Bosch lll injectors only they're green. They flow 42lb/440cc. Do your injectors work?
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Originally Posted by southbay08
Are you talking about the green giants? The look exactly like the Bosch lll injectors only they're green. They flow 42lb/440cc. Do your injectors work?
yeah. my old fat body green top 150280558 work, just tested them last night, debating if I should have them cleaned, but the pattern looks fine during my little bench test. just about to swap to them along with a cam change, that's why this came up, searching for data to plug in the tune. I am behind the times and didn't realize they have different ford green 42lb injectors.
so there's my old ones, something called the green monster and another green giant? all 3 different part numbers? man injectors have flooded the market over the last few years.
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
thanks , i the same ones. Looking all through tunerpro rt and have not found anything in parameter tree that has these values.
Is there a keyword search that will window pop up for injector settings?
Re: Bosch III 42 Lb/hr Green Giant Injector Parameters
Originally Posted by HSRTPI
thanks , i the same ones. Looking all through tunerpro rt and have not found anything in parameter tree that has these values.
Is there a keyword search that will window pop up for injector settings?
11-03-2014, 11:30 AM
