Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
07-10-2015, 03:13 PM
#51
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Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Post 23 is the stock, blue MEMCAL. It's a 32B mask. I'm running the ARAP Vette 6E right now. Perhaps I should run an F-Car Bin in the 6E mask. Car runs good with that, but Have a 5 speed now. I switched from the 700R4. Even that shows 160 BLM at idle, but off idle it runs down around 128 to 130. I wonder if that's what happens at idle, because the idle is way high when the diagnostic port is used. Throttle blade is .55 volts but the idle is up over a 1000. I use ALDL for android so I'm not sure what the airflow units are
07-10-2015, 03:42 PM
#52
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Even that shows 160 BLM at idle, but off idle it runs down around 128 to 130. I wonder if that's what happens at idle, because the idle is way high when the diagnostic port is used. Throttle blade is .55 volts but the idle is up over a 1000. I use ALDL for android so I'm not sure what the airflow units are
You're getting air in from somewhere after the MAF sensor. At low total air flow during idle, it's a larger percentage of the total, therefore the lean condition. At higher engine speeds, the leak is a much smaller %, hence it doesn't affect fuel trim as much.
The vacuum leak theory also explains why I'm seeing such low IAC steps while you're idling at almost twice the prescribed idle speed in the stock bin.
Now, when you switch to other masks/bins, other factors may be coming into play. But like I said before, let's get any malfunctions cleared up and the stock memcal running properly prior to starting into other masks/bins.
(this is assuming your MAF of unknown origin is also functioning properly).
07-10-2015, 03:56 PM
#53
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Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
(As RBob alluded to earlier) This is describing a vacuum leak.
You're getting air in from somewhere after the MAF sensor. At low total air flow during idle, it's a larger percentage of the total, therefore the lean condition. At higher engine speeds, the leak is a much smaller %, hence it doesn't affect fuel trim as much.
The vacuum leak theory also explains why I'm seeing such low IAC steps while you're idling at almost twice the prescribed idle speed in the stock bin.
Now, when you switch to other masks/bins, other factors may be coming into play. But like I said before, let's get any malfunctions cleared up and the stock memcal running properly prior to starting into other masks/bins.
(this is assuming your MAF of unknown origin is also functioning properly).
You're getting air in from somewhere after the MAF sensor. At low total air flow during idle, it's a larger percentage of the total, therefore the lean condition. At higher engine speeds, the leak is a much smaller %, hence it doesn't affect fuel trim as much.
The vacuum leak theory also explains why I'm seeing such low IAC steps while you're idling at almost twice the prescribed idle speed in the stock bin.
Now, when you switch to other masks/bins, other factors may be coming into play. But like I said before, let's get any malfunctions cleared up and the stock memcal running properly prior to starting into other masks/bins.
(this is assuming your MAF of unknown origin is also functioning properly).
I agree with the theory too. I ran propane all over the engine, and checked my hoses and tubes. Nothing appears to be leaking
07-10-2015, 04:02 PM
#54
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Try this....
Disconnect every vacuum line from the intake manifold and ONLY reconnect the FPR. I think that's the only vacuum operated thing you need to run at idle speed. Then cap off all remaining ports on the manifold. At least you'll eliminate any of the smog/accessory items. Start with the low hanging fruit first.
If that doesn't solve it, disconnect the FPR and cap it off too and see if the idle speed comes down (it'll probably also bring down your BLM in the process).
If that doesn't solve the high idle, you can also get a "poor man's stethescope" (a length of small hose in one ear with an earplug in your other ear) and start probing around listening for sucking sounds around the gasketed flanges.
Disconnect every vacuum line from the intake manifold and ONLY reconnect the FPR. I think that's the only vacuum operated thing you need to run at idle speed. Then cap off all remaining ports on the manifold. At least you'll eliminate any of the smog/accessory items. Start with the low hanging fruit first.
If that doesn't solve it, disconnect the FPR and cap it off too and see if the idle speed comes down (it'll probably also bring down your BLM in the process).
If that doesn't solve the high idle, you can also get a "poor man's stethescope" (a length of small hose in one ear with an earplug in your other ear) and start probing around listening for sucking sounds around the gasketed flanges.
07-10-2015, 10:16 PM
#55
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Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Try this....
Disconnect every vacuum line from the intake manifold and ONLY reconnect the FPR. I think that's the only vacuum operated thing you need to run at idle speed. Then cap off all remaining ports on the manifold. At least you'll eliminate any of the smog/accessory items. Start with the low hanging fruit first.
If that doesn't solve it, disconnect the FPR and cap it off too and see if the idle speed comes down (it'll probably also bring down your BLM in the process).
If that doesn't solve the high idle, you can also get a "poor man's stethescope" (a length of small hose in one ear with an earplug in your other ear) and start probing around listening for sucking sounds around the gasketed flanges.
Disconnect every vacuum line from the intake manifold and ONLY reconnect the FPR. I think that's the only vacuum operated thing you need to run at idle speed. Then cap off all remaining ports on the manifold. At least you'll eliminate any of the smog/accessory items. Start with the low hanging fruit first.
If that doesn't solve it, disconnect the FPR and cap it off too and see if the idle speed comes down (it'll probably also bring down your BLM in the process).
If that doesn't solve the high idle, you can also get a "poor man's stethescope" (a length of small hose in one ear with an earplug in your other ear) and start probing around listening for sucking sounds around the gasketed flanges.
I'll do all that in the morning and let you know if I come up with anything. As for the MAF. I bought it new. It's just not OE. It's probably 12 years old but it's never faulted on me, and has around 30,000 miles on it. Cars not driven very often.
07-11-2015, 10:19 AM
#56
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
I can't seem to find a vacuum leak. Could base timing be the cause of all this? I'm wondering if maybe my stock balancer has slipped over the years. The rubber is all cracked and small parts of it look extruded. I never really paid much attention to it before. Kind of looking for anything at this point
07-11-2015, 12:54 PM
#57
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Can you send me the bin that's currently in the car giving you the 160 at idle and ~130 everywhere else.
07-11-2015, 01:30 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
07-11-2015, 02:06 PM
#59
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
I ran a compare between your BIN and a factory ARAP bin and I'm noticing anything suspicious.
However, I still don't like what I'm seeing in the Airflow column in your datalog. It seems like the values are all over the place and seemingly not consistent with engine rpm and TPS value.
I'm not an expert on MAF cars so I can't say for sure if I'm seeing a malfunction or not... You're sure the MAF sensor itself is good, but what about the wiring to the MAF?
However, I still don't like what I'm seeing in the Airflow column in your datalog. It seems like the values are all over the place and seemingly not consistent with engine rpm and TPS value.
I'm not an expert on MAF cars so I can't say for sure if I'm seeing a malfunction or not... You're sure the MAF sensor itself is good, but what about the wiring to the MAF?
07-11-2015, 02:46 PM
#60
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
I ran a compare between your BIN and a factory ARAP bin and I'm noticing anything suspicious.
However, I still don't like what I'm seeing in the Airflow column in your datalog. It seems like the values are all over the place and seemingly not consistent with engine rpm and TPS value.
I'm not an expert on MAF cars so I can't say for sure if I'm seeing a malfunction or not... You're sure the MAF sensor itself is good, but what about the wiring to the MAF?
However, I still don't like what I'm seeing in the Airflow column in your datalog. It seems like the values are all over the place and seemingly not consistent with engine rpm and TPS value.
I'm not an expert on MAF cars so I can't say for sure if I'm seeing a malfunction or not... You're sure the MAF sensor itself is good, but what about the wiring to the MAF?
Last edited by EDGE; 07-11-2015 at 03:08 PM.
07-11-2015, 03:15 PM
#61
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
I guess I'm not advocating getting a new MAF just yet. Like I said, I'm not convinced that's the problem yet, and was hoping a more knowledgable MAF guy can look at you data.
But the ARAP bin has the air flow in gm/sec, with a max of 254. And I'm seeing values of over 2000 at idle speeds in the data (but there no units of measure in the column header, so I don't know what those values represent... unless it's millivolts?
But the ARAP bin has the air flow in gm/sec, with a max of 254. And I'm seeing values of over 2000 at idle speeds in the data (but there no units of measure in the column header, so I don't know what those values represent... unless it's millivolts?
07-11-2015, 04:07 PM
#62
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Do me a favor and take another data log...
This time I want you to:
1.) Idle the car (don't tough the throttle) and hold for say, 30 seconds
2.) Bring the rpm up to say, 2000 rpm then hold for 30 seconds
3.) Go around the block and drive such that you're cruising at say, 2000 rpm and hold steady for 30 seconds. Doesn't matter what gear you're in.
The MAF data just seemed very twitchy to me on previous logs... I want to see what happens during steady state hold at a few operating conditions.
This time I want you to:
1.) Idle the car (don't tough the throttle) and hold for say, 30 seconds
2.) Bring the rpm up to say, 2000 rpm then hold for 30 seconds
3.) Go around the block and drive such that you're cruising at say, 2000 rpm and hold steady for 30 seconds. Doesn't matter what gear you're in.
The MAF data just seemed very twitchy to me on previous logs... I want to see what happens during steady state hold at a few operating conditions.
07-11-2015, 04:20 PM
#63
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Do me a favor and take another data log...
This time I want you to:
1.) Idle the car (don't tough the throttle) and hold for say, 30 seconds
2.) Bring the rpm up to say, 2000 rpm then hold for 30 seconds
3.) Go around the block and drive such that you're cruising at say, 2000 rpm and hold steady for 30 seconds. Doesn't matter what gear you're in.
The MAF data just seemed very twitchy to me on previous logs... I want to see what happens during steady state hold at a few operating conditions.
This time I want you to:
1.) Idle the car (don't tough the throttle) and hold for say, 30 seconds
2.) Bring the rpm up to say, 2000 rpm then hold for 30 seconds
3.) Go around the block and drive such that you're cruising at say, 2000 rpm and hold steady for 30 seconds. Doesn't matter what gear you're in.
The MAF data just seemed very twitchy to me on previous logs... I want to see what happens during steady state hold at a few operating conditions.
07-11-2015, 05:36 PM
#64
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Here's a Data log from both the 32B and 6E bin. For some reason now the 6E won't interface and gives me checksum errors. I forced a data log form it, but ALDL won't connect to the ECM when using the 6E. This nonsense just started. The 6E data is most likely very erratic because of this checksum crap. I do think there is an improvement though.
Last edited by EDGE; 07-11-2015 at 05:39 PM.
07-11-2015, 06:20 PM
#65
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Starting to figure out TunerPro better. Here's the MASS data in grams amongst other things
07-11-2015, 07:18 PM
#66
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
You're in BLM Idle cell 0. I did a quick search and it seems to be a somewhat common occurrence when folks change injectors... High BLM's in idle cell 0 and ok everywhere else.
I found this...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-blms-way.html
Take a look at the last post.
Maybe do some searching on your own. There are several threads with this lean idle cell 0 thing in 6E. The link I found seemed to be the only one with some sort of solution in it. You may find some stuff with a more exhaustive search.
I found this...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-blms-way.html
Take a look at the last post.
Maybe do some searching on your own. There are several threads with this lean idle cell 0 thing in 6E. The link I found seemed to be the only one with some sort of solution in it. You may find some stuff with a more exhaustive search.
07-11-2015, 08:22 PM
#67
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
You're in BLM Idle cell 0. I did a quick search and it seems to be a somewhat common occurrence when folks change injectors... High BLM's in idle cell 0 and ok everywhere else.
I found this...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-blms-way.html
Take a look at the last post.
Maybe do some searching on your own. There are several threads with this lean idle cell 0 thing in 6E. The link I found seemed to be the only one with some sort of solution in it. You may find some stuff with a more exhaustive search.
I found this...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-blms-way.html
Take a look at the last post.
Maybe do some searching on your own. There are several threads with this lean idle cell 0 thing in 6E. The link I found seemed to be the only one with some sort of solution in it. You may find some stuff with a more exhaustive search.
07-11-2015, 09:27 PM
#68
07-11-2015, 09:32 PM
#69
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Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Very interesting read. Thanks for finding that. Identical to my issue. Guess I'll look into this 3 wire 02 mod. A shame, I just installed the new Delco OE single wire too.
As for the timing curve. The one that's in there right now is from a 5.0 liter 5 speed F-Car, and of course the ARAP is a 5.7 liter Vette bin. I understand that the cast iron head can't hold the Vette timing curve, so am I best to leave the 5.0 liter one in place, or am I losing out?
As for the timing curve. The one that's in there right now is from a 5.0 liter 5 speed F-Car, and of course the ARAP is a 5.7 liter Vette bin. I understand that the cast iron head can't hold the Vette timing curve, so am I best to leave the 5.0 liter one in place, or am I losing out?
Last edited by EDGE; 07-11-2015 at 09:39 PM.
07-11-2015, 10:19 PM
#70
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Once you're confident with your fueling, go ahead and run the Vette advance curve. If you don't get any knocking or knock retard kicking in, it's perfectly fine. If you do, simply pull timing out in the offending regions until the knock goes away (assuming you don't have a lean spot in that region that's a catalyst for the knocking).
07-11-2015, 11:08 PM
#71
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Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Once you're confident with your fueling, go ahead and run the Vette advance curve. If you don't get any knocking or knock retard kicking in, it's perfectly fine. If you do, simply pull timing out in the offending regions until the knock goes away (assuming you don't have a lean spot in that region that's a catalyst for the knocking).
07-12-2015, 12:22 PM
#73
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Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
spent enough time on this lol.
*EDIT*
Ended up going for longer more aggresive drive. At 206 LV under pretty hard acceleration the Knock retard is pulling 6 degrees. Is that considered normal? To much? Or should there be absolutely zero timing pulled, and 6 is considered a bad thing. But man does it ever drive good
Last edited by EDGE; 07-12-2015 at 02:32 PM.
07-12-2015, 07:24 PM
#74
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
Think I got it, thanks to you and Rob. As per that last post you sent me, with Robs MAF and injector advice, I bumped 3 of the MAF 1 table values up a few points, took my injector values and upped them about 20% in increments. I now idle at around a BLM of 124, and the car tops out at about 135 to 140, but that's rare. Usually hovers around 128 to 130 when it's moving. Thanks a lot guys.
07-13-2015, 09:35 AM
#76
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: Just burned my first chip, would anyone be able to give it a once over?
One thing I've noticed is how much cooler the engine is running. Before I couldn't even touch the rad support. The heat radiating off the engine was as if you opened and oven door. The blast from opening the hood was ridiculous. Now it's warm under there like every other engine compartment.
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09-09-2015 04:25 PM