alan91z28

New to EBL, have mainly been tuning LS series engines in my builds over the past couple of years

However a couple of years ago, i found my first camaro, a 1988 sport coupe in a junk yard and my son and i have been restoring it... to get the title back on it from its current salvage cert i need to use a period correct emissions package

Background - We are using the following drivetrain

ZZ5 350 Crate Engine with Vortec Heads
Edelbrock TPI Intake with Stock TPI runners, throttle body, etc
Stock Exhaust Manifolds, Dual CAT
32 lb Bosch III injectors, 44 PSI Fuel Pressure
6 deg base timing
IAT in TPI air filter inlet
T-56 6 Speed
3.73 Rear End

First off i have to say that i have found the EBL Flash to be great, it was easy to install into the stock MAF harness and easy to get up and running... I am use to using HP Tuners on the LS engines, the WUD and well documented XDF file with Tuner PRO do a great job with EBL making it just as easy as the LS in my opinion...

OK so i started off with the EBL_F_3006.BIN which stated it was for a 5.7L TPI, 6 Spd, Alum Heads

I made the following mods
- Changed BPC vs VAC and Boost tables to 129 vs 188 for the 32 lb / hr injectors per the utility program
- Adjusted the AE MAP and TPS PW tables by multiplying the entire table by .686 (129/188) to again compensate for the larger injectors
- Adjusted my fan on / off down to 185F upper / 167F lower for my lower temp thermostat
- Tempered the proportional gain PRP Gain Multiplier vs Airflow by multiplying the table by 0.8 from 0 to 96 GM Sec
- Disabled Hiway mode for now by maxing out the Hiwy min coolant value
- Did a couple of initial BLM VE learns in idle to mid throttle ranges

alan91z28

The engine fires right up and seems to idle well.

Here are a couple of areas i am working, would like any opinions / advice

1. Throttle response on pedal apply is a little hesitant, maybe i need a little more work on the AE table?

2. The idle is generally good in cold and warmed up closed loop but sometimes i get a stall coming to a rolling stop sometimes no trouble at all

3. On clutch in at speed i can also get a stall, i can restart immediately (this might / might not also be related to comment 2 above)

Attached is my bin and a log file

In the log file if you go to around 22:44 for example this is a stall with clutch in... around 20:36 is a coasting stop stall... a good stop with no idle issues is around 25:09

Any thoughts appreciated... i am impressed how easy though this was to get up and running and reasonably driveable with great tuning and diagnostics... i am excited about working on this project as any LS engine now! Thanks RBob for the great product and tool for the SBC!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There is too much AE at tip in, do the 1/4 mile graph of the log. Can see the AFR go way rich. As this is reduced the VE Learn will produce a better VE table.

The stalling appears to be from the IAC being too far open. The ECM does learn the higher step count which is why it didn't stall at the later stops in the log. For a port set up shoot for 20 - 25 steps on a warm idle with no other loads.

In the log the fan is running, so can't see the step count with no other loads on it. But it seems to be higher then it should be. Open the idle stop screw to open the blades to get the desired step count.

Can also bump up the stall saver RPMs as the idle speed has been increased:

IAC - Stall Saver RPMs

For the injectors, this is likely the correct data:

M-9593-BB302* 30 lbs/hr EV6 11-18 ohms L Jetronic/Minitimer (280-155-759, skinny red)

Fuel Pressure: 44 psi
Flow rate: 32.3 #/hr

INJ - Injector Correction Offset:

6.4 Volts: 3193 usec
8.0 Volts: 2163 usec
9.6 Volts: 1618 usec
11.2 Volts: 1278 usec
12.8 Volts: 1031 usec also use at the 0 volts entry
14.4 Volts: 821 usec
15.0 Volts: 784 usec* extrapolate to higher values

As for this table, zero all entries:

INJ - Small PW Correction - PORT Only


Note that if the reverse lockout solenoid is still in the transmission, can control it via the TCC output of the EBL ECM. This is pin A7. It provides a ground for the solenoid to activate it.

RBob.

alan91z28

Thanks RBob for the look and suggestions... i will see what i can do

alan91z28

attached is my latest .bin and also a test log i just did today

the basic changes i made are

- adjusted TPS throttle torx screw about 3/4 of a turn
- further scaled down the AE TPS PW table
- adjusted the Injector Correct Offset Table per RBob data
- zero'd out the INJ Sall PW Correction Port Only Table
- Adjusted IAC Stall Saver RPMs for Enter by +50 RPM / exit +25 RPM

Overall these changes made what seemed to be a positive difference... i did not have any stall at stop or clutch in and the hunting at idle did seemed reduced

After this i did try a WB learn but ended up with poor results... i did follow the typical set up (disable CL operation, plug Canister TB input etc)... The results lowered a lot of the low ve table cells 10-12 %... when i flashed this change though i got large immediate hunting at idle with very large AFR swings... i covered a lot of territory and am thinking that since i didn't do any smoothing before i tried it maybe i was falling between cells that had a lot of change and it was causing the issue??? the .bin and data file for this hunting are attached as the Do not use files

i didn't have a lot of time with this one so i loaded back the base 00515 .bin and again it drove well

Overall the EBL is really working well and easy to use... i just need to get more familiar with TunerPro as the smoothing etc that i am use to in HP Tuners really worked well when i did VE tables on LS engines but not quite use yet to the TunerPro tool

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Both of the logs are with the ECM in closed loop.

For smoothing, the VE Learn has a smoothing function. See the Smoothing factor in the Preferences dialog. A value of 5 to 8 works well.

RBob.

alan91z28

thanks RBob... i did do the VE learns in open loop (disable CL via CTS temp setting)... the logs are after i turned CL back on with the VE tables adjusted from the CL learnings...

i will look at the smoothing factor

TORN

iTrader: (17)

If its surging in OL its going to surge in closed loop is my finding with bigger injectors. I also found its hard for the EBL to make the idle perfect with a VE learn so I let it do a learn and it surges then hand massage the graph the get it perfect and the surge goes away and smooth idle comes back.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Open Loop has no O2 correction, if it is surging then the amount of fuel is skewed with the amount of air being taken in, which can be corrected through Wideband EBL Learning. There should be no surge in Closed Loop once 128 BLM is attained and averaged. If your are surging in Closed Loop while seeing 128, then look at your base, idle and main timing, make sure it is not playing tug of war with each other in your idle RPM area...

alan91z28

My experience with EBL Flash continues to be very positive...

I have been running for several weeks on my 00515 config posted above and it has worked pretty well driving around with my set-up

I did get some time this weekend so i wanted to try and improve on some of the slight surging, etc i have been having so i flipped it to BLM VE Learn mode and did a long drive

After generating a VE Learn off my 00515 i took it into tuner pro and used its smoothing function for the VE Tables... I did quite a bit of smoothing both with the smooth function and then manually on the 3D graph adjusting other points

Since a lot of guys have vortec 350 swaps with manuals i am attaching my resulting 00615.bin to help anyone else get started. I have been driving around this weekend with this .bin and so far it has been running really well with this update. I know idle still needs some more work as it is on the rich side but everything seems very stable and responsive

I am sure i will make some additional changes and post them up (ie i want to start working on enabling the manual trans tables for PE Spark Adv add, etc)

Also attached is a data log from this .bin that i took this afternoon

Comments appreciated

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

At 46* of spark advance w/15% TPS I'm sure it is very responsive...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Bump your SA idle state up a tad to correlate where your idle is hovering in your Main table.

alan91z28

Thanks for the input... I will give it a try!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You're welcome. Your MAP is displaying about 42-KPa in idle which fluctuates between 700 - 800-RPM. In your SA Main Table the target in that area is about 24*, but your SA Idle State is set to approximately 15*, so you'll want to adjust that setting to 24*...