DIY Base tune vs. Custom Mail Order
11-04-2015, 03:26 PM
#1
DIY Base tune vs. Custom Mail Order
Hey guys....couple quick questions, if there is such a thing. Building a 383 TPI, RHS 180 heads, cam somewhere around Hotcam to XFI 268. haven't made that choice yet. Obviously not a wild 383.
Been reading a TON about tuning, and at one point, I was going to have Brian/Tuned Performance hook me up with a base tune, but over time, learn to fine tune myself. Haven't been able to find Brian (who seems to have a great rep) but have found a few other online, who may or may NOT be all that. Here's my statement/question:
I'm not against learning to fine tune over time. I am however, a little hesitant to physically work out the bugs of a new engine, while at the same time really not knowing what I'm doing computer "tuning" wise. Starting with my current 89 350 TPI tune, setting all the obligatory changes like injectors etc. etc. how much work is required to get me in the ball park? My current 350/zz4 cam runs great. I feel confident I could datalog to see what's happening, and fine tune the areas that maybe need more or less fuel, or timing, etc etc. Trial and error, see what works. On the other hand, I'm completely psyched out with tuning this 383. Once I set injectors, etc. etc. I have no idea what to do and where to go from there. How do I even start, if the ENGINE won't start!? does that make sense???
Not sure if I conveyed that real well. Does that make sense?
Been reading a TON about tuning, and at one point, I was going to have Brian/Tuned Performance hook me up with a base tune, but over time, learn to fine tune myself. Haven't been able to find Brian (who seems to have a great rep) but have found a few other online, who may or may NOT be all that. Here's my statement/question:
I'm not against learning to fine tune over time. I am however, a little hesitant to physically work out the bugs of a new engine, while at the same time really not knowing what I'm doing computer "tuning" wise. Starting with my current 89 350 TPI tune, setting all the obligatory changes like injectors etc. etc. how much work is required to get me in the ball park? My current 350/zz4 cam runs great. I feel confident I could datalog to see what's happening, and fine tune the areas that maybe need more or less fuel, or timing, etc etc. Trial and error, see what works. On the other hand, I'm completely psyched out with tuning this 383. Once I set injectors, etc. etc. I have no idea what to do and where to go from there. How do I even start, if the ENGINE won't start!? does that make sense???
Not sure if I conveyed that real well. Does that make sense?
11-05-2015, 07:46 PM
#4
Re: DIY Base tune vs. Custom Mail Order
Start with the scalars (tunerpro rt).
Ok first thing is injectors and base timing in the bin file. Set the injector constant to the flow rate at your pressure.
Base timing is set as 6 for factory L98 cars. That should be enough to start the car up. A wilder combo may not like that low. When you first go to start the car with dizzy in, you gotta get it fired up with EST wire disconnected. Some combos will not run at 6 deg base so you may need to switch to 10-12 or whatever works best. However I think yours should be ok at 6-8. Just keep this in mind when you go to fire it up.
ALDL spark adder: 8-10 deg is usually factory. Set this to 0. When you hook up scan cable, you do not want extra spark advance added.
Cooling fan turn on scalars. Set these to your desired op temp range based on the thermostat. Example 180 stat, turn fan on at 185-190. Off 170-175.
Double check Min LV8 to Enable Power enrichment is somewhere in the 50-64 LV8 range, should be factory that way. Could play with this because the 383 should add more LV8 at part throttle loads and idle. My 383 with much bigger cam idled in the higher 60-70's lv8 I believe. I cant exactly remember. So may want to increase min enable pe to alittle higher to make sure you dont enter it in light throttle situations. There are other areas for PE enable tho so can also control from there.
Closed loop enable temp. If you want to run open loop set this to max temp. Else leave alone. Sometimes I like to disable this to first tune open loop MAF tables for cruise and part throttle stuff and then reenable it later so the system has to do less corrections.
EGR still on? If no can disable it with Disable EGR if MAT < X. Set to max temp.
Fuel and rev limiters you can set if you want
Stall savers could be adjusted. Your idle may want to be higher than stock with the cam so bump the stall savers up just alittle bit
Torque converter TCC lock up speeds you can adjust to your desired mph speed. Also the unlock prevention threshold. Set that to max mph if you dont ever want to have converter lockup during WOT. If you do, you can set that to whatever speed you want but my car ran faster with the converter open during WOT.
Thats it for SCALARS
FLAGS
I disable VATS, and if you run an ARAP bin, the cooling fan N/O request flag. ARAP bin in a camaro will turn fan on with key on because vettes are wired differently
TABLES:
Main thing is spark advance table. I smooth it out and increase in certain spots. If you look at the table 3d graph you can see its spikey. Open up the Power Enrichment Mode spark advance table as well. 0 that out. Make all values 0. Note the factory values however at the rpms listed. Add that amount back into the main table. Then smooth it out manually between all cells so there is a smooth transition in timing in the table. 3d graph is perfect for this in tunerpro. Mainly max Lv8 columns 192-208 should be wot timing. 34-36 deg at peak rpms. cruise will depend on the heads, generally 35-40 deg where possible. idle total timing 24-25 deg typically.
Next Maximum Air flow vs rpm table. This is the flow limit for the MAF at various rpms. A built 383 will consume alot more air so at the lower rpms, you may want to raise alot of these values. You want the MAF to control most of the fueling where possible. 1200-3200 rpm or so should increase 20-40 grams/sec. From 3200 to 6400, make it max 255.
EGR cycle duty vs LV8 and rpm. As before if EGR is present and you want to keep it, leave this alone. If its deleted then make all these values 0 in the table.
Acceleration enrichment factor vs change in Lv8: I typically add a few to this beforehand on a new motor but can leave it stock for first start and tuning. Change as necessary if the throttle response is not quick enough. This is a fuel pump shot type effect on rapid change in LV8 from rapid throttle change.
Idle RPM vs Temp. This is your idle tables. Set desired rpm. That cam should like 750-800. Thats generally where I would keep it. It may go lower. If alternator isnt charging well if using non stock accessory pulleys, then raise rpm higher.
Injector Pulsewidth correction vs batt voltage could be adjusted for your injectors. Injectors should have data to go with them.
Thats basically it for now. Try that as a base tune and get it to start. If it struggles to start the startup fuel table is Crank Fuel PW vs Coolant Temp. Its basically larger pulse is more fuel. Play with it til it starts then let it warm up and start watching the logs to see what things are doing. Set base timing. Then you can start to drive and carefully check part throttle tune. BLMs etc. Timing and knock counts.
WOT you will want to get a wideband for ultimate fuel control. SLowly work into full throttle. Alittle more throttle at a time. MAF will max out at some point between 3600-4000 rpm most likely so more fuel comes from Power Enrichment vs RPM. Higher % number increases fuel. This will follow the torque curve in shape meaning most fuel will be added near peak torque, then slight dip before peak hp rpm, then climb towards peak hp rpm. Depends how early the MAF gets maxed. Less hot combo wont max maf as early and the pe enrichment curve will likely not look like the dyno torque curve.
Ok first thing is injectors and base timing in the bin file. Set the injector constant to the flow rate at your pressure.
Base timing is set as 6 for factory L98 cars. That should be enough to start the car up. A wilder combo may not like that low. When you first go to start the car with dizzy in, you gotta get it fired up with EST wire disconnected. Some combos will not run at 6 deg base so you may need to switch to 10-12 or whatever works best. However I think yours should be ok at 6-8. Just keep this in mind when you go to fire it up.
ALDL spark adder: 8-10 deg is usually factory. Set this to 0. When you hook up scan cable, you do not want extra spark advance added.
Cooling fan turn on scalars. Set these to your desired op temp range based on the thermostat. Example 180 stat, turn fan on at 185-190. Off 170-175.
Double check Min LV8 to Enable Power enrichment is somewhere in the 50-64 LV8 range, should be factory that way. Could play with this because the 383 should add more LV8 at part throttle loads and idle. My 383 with much bigger cam idled in the higher 60-70's lv8 I believe. I cant exactly remember. So may want to increase min enable pe to alittle higher to make sure you dont enter it in light throttle situations. There are other areas for PE enable tho so can also control from there.
Closed loop enable temp. If you want to run open loop set this to max temp. Else leave alone. Sometimes I like to disable this to first tune open loop MAF tables for cruise and part throttle stuff and then reenable it later so the system has to do less corrections.
EGR still on? If no can disable it with Disable EGR if MAT < X. Set to max temp.
Fuel and rev limiters you can set if you want
Stall savers could be adjusted. Your idle may want to be higher than stock with the cam so bump the stall savers up just alittle bit
Torque converter TCC lock up speeds you can adjust to your desired mph speed. Also the unlock prevention threshold. Set that to max mph if you dont ever want to have converter lockup during WOT. If you do, you can set that to whatever speed you want but my car ran faster with the converter open during WOT.
Thats it for SCALARS
FLAGS
I disable VATS, and if you run an ARAP bin, the cooling fan N/O request flag. ARAP bin in a camaro will turn fan on with key on because vettes are wired differently
TABLES:
Main thing is spark advance table. I smooth it out and increase in certain spots. If you look at the table 3d graph you can see its spikey. Open up the Power Enrichment Mode spark advance table as well. 0 that out. Make all values 0. Note the factory values however at the rpms listed. Add that amount back into the main table. Then smooth it out manually between all cells so there is a smooth transition in timing in the table. 3d graph is perfect for this in tunerpro. Mainly max Lv8 columns 192-208 should be wot timing. 34-36 deg at peak rpms. cruise will depend on the heads, generally 35-40 deg where possible. idle total timing 24-25 deg typically.
Next Maximum Air flow vs rpm table. This is the flow limit for the MAF at various rpms. A built 383 will consume alot more air so at the lower rpms, you may want to raise alot of these values. You want the MAF to control most of the fueling where possible. 1200-3200 rpm or so should increase 20-40 grams/sec. From 3200 to 6400, make it max 255.
EGR cycle duty vs LV8 and rpm. As before if EGR is present and you want to keep it, leave this alone. If its deleted then make all these values 0 in the table.
Acceleration enrichment factor vs change in Lv8: I typically add a few to this beforehand on a new motor but can leave it stock for first start and tuning. Change as necessary if the throttle response is not quick enough. This is a fuel pump shot type effect on rapid change in LV8 from rapid throttle change.
Idle RPM vs Temp. This is your idle tables. Set desired rpm. That cam should like 750-800. Thats generally where I would keep it. It may go lower. If alternator isnt charging well if using non stock accessory pulleys, then raise rpm higher.
Injector Pulsewidth correction vs batt voltage could be adjusted for your injectors. Injectors should have data to go with them.
Thats basically it for now. Try that as a base tune and get it to start. If it struggles to start the startup fuel table is Crank Fuel PW vs Coolant Temp. Its basically larger pulse is more fuel. Play with it til it starts then let it warm up and start watching the logs to see what things are doing. Set base timing. Then you can start to drive and carefully check part throttle tune. BLMs etc. Timing and knock counts.
WOT you will want to get a wideband for ultimate fuel control. SLowly work into full throttle. Alittle more throttle at a time. MAF will max out at some point between 3600-4000 rpm most likely so more fuel comes from Power Enrichment vs RPM. Higher % number increases fuel. This will follow the torque curve in shape meaning most fuel will be added near peak torque, then slight dip before peak hp rpm, then climb towards peak hp rpm. Depends how early the MAF gets maxed. Less hot combo wont max maf as early and the pe enrichment curve will likely not look like the dyno torque curve.
11-05-2015, 09:12 PM
#5
Re: DIY Base tune vs. Custom Mail Order
Dude, that is awesome. "most" of it makes sense, lol. Thank you for taking the time to write that up!
...I'm gonna get all the hardware/software set up and start playing around before I get back to you, but I'll probably have some question. That being said, I think I can figure a lot of it out.
Thank you again.....and I'll be back!
...I'm gonna get all the hardware/software set up and start playing around before I get back to you, but I'll probably have some question. That being said, I think I can figure a lot of it out.Thank you again.....and I'll be back!
11-06-2015, 11:22 AM
#6
Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
7 Posts
Car: 87 Monte Carlo SS
Engine: 89 350TPI Transplant
Transmission: 2004r
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: DIY Base tune vs. Custom Mail Order
Very good information in this thread. Orr seems to know his stuff. I'll be following this thread closely since I'm considering building a mild 383.
11-06-2015, 11:31 AM
#7
Re: DIY Base tune vs. Custom Mail Order
There are a few 6e bind out there to try.
My 89 was AUJL code. I started with that. I've also had good success with ARAP but you should reduce the timing table values by a good margin if using a fast burn type head or modern aluminum chambers like AFR. Or high comp high dynamic and cranking comp motors. Sensitive to timing so reduce timing amount
ARAP has slightly different maf tables so you can try copying them over to another bin if you want.
My 89 was AUJL code. I started with that. I've also had good success with ARAP but you should reduce the timing table values by a good margin if using a fast burn type head or modern aluminum chambers like AFR. Or high comp high dynamic and cranking comp motors. Sensitive to timing so reduce timing amount
ARAP has slightly different maf tables so you can try copying them over to another bin if you want.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
TransAm12sec
Firebirds for Sale
6
02-16-2016 06:48 PM
