ULTM8Z

So I decided to give this another go...

Called the injector company and got the voltage offsets...

Volts______Offset (ms)

6________3.366
8________2.044
10_______1.440
11_______1.240
12_______1.083
13_______0.950
14_______0.824
15_______0.741

Zeroed out the Low Pulse Width Injector Offset vs BPW table per a recommendation from RBob in another post, based on the fact that "The type III injectors flow more fuel at small PWs then at larger PWs. Because of this it is best to zero out the low PW offset table. As that table can only add to the injector PW at 3.9 mSec and less."

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...gn-iii-pw.html

Set the injector constant to 30 lb/hr.

The VE tables are essentially the LT1 VE tables and it's pretty close to these Miniram'ed VE tables in this thread (posts 22 and 23)...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ram-8d-ve.html

Fuel pressure set to 43 psi (vacuum off).

Now the results...

BLM's uniformly get pulled down to 108 all over the place... Integrator is hovering around 100, indicating it wants to drop the BLMs even lower!

It's "better" than the first time I tried these injectors... BLM's were haywire... But that was before I got my system voltages corrected to where fuel pump voltage matches battery voltage.

Since I'm now considering the VE tables to be approximately correct, I started playing around with the injector constant.

Turns out I have to set the injector constant to ~42 lb/hr in order to get the BLM's back in line.

The injectors are literally like brand new...

I'd guess maybe somewhere between 28 lb/hr and 32 lb/hr would be reasonable to dial in the BLM's. But 42?

Am I missing something else?

ULTM8Z

Screwing around with these things for another couple of hours... Different fuel pressures, different voltage offsets, different injector constants...

I don't know WTF these injectors are...

they changed hands a couple of times between members of this board before they got to me, supposedly bought originally from Fuel Injector Connection... P/N is scratched off the sides since they're some sort of re-man...

they then send me a data sheet with the title chopped off the top...

@#!$ this... I'm sick of these things...

I think I'm going to get the M-9593-BB302 (0280155759). They're factory injectors with data easily accessible on this site and the net...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...gn-iii-pw.html

http://www.boschdealer.com/specsheets/0280155759cs.jpg

and they're like a ~$100 on ebay (and I can see the p/n on the sides in the photos)...

ULTM8Z

Interesting....

going back and looking at the FIC injector data, it's the exact same offset values as these 0280155759 red Bosch ones. Except these FIC ones are yellow and the p/n's are scratched off the sides...

ULTM8Z

Well, I ordered a set of the M-9593-BB302 (0280155759) injectors on Ebay. Got a pretty good deal on them too.

In fairness, FIC offered to take a look at my injectors free of charge. But I figured if I spend ~$20 for round-trip shipping only to find out there’s something wrong with them then I’m out $20 and will likely end up buying these other injectors anyway.

I suppose FIC could probably fix them (for a charge), but I also figure I may as well just start with a known quantity. The seller has a return policy on the injectors and free shipping, so worst case, I’m out the cost to ship them back. So I’m taking the gamble….

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If these are Bosch Type-III's, they may be drilled 19#/hr injectors. Which would explain a lot of the situation.

RBob.

ULTM8Z

Injector company confirmed in the phone with me that these are Bosch type III's modified to get to 30 lb/hr. Not sure what they do though....

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Not to hijack, but I just purchased the red Bosch III's. Motor is still being built so I'm a ways from cranking up, BUT....I'm putting together a base tune. Do I need to correct for the offset, as you have stated? I've read through it quickly, and I "think" I understand. I'll read through again before I ask specific questions.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

This explains most of it:

https://eficalibrator.files.wordpres...ingdrilled.pdf

RBob.

ULTM8Z

Wow, pretty eye opening.

My injectors arrived today. Probably will install them tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

ULTM8Z

First impressions with the M-9593-BB302 (0280155759) injectors...

I could tell something was different (in a better way) as soon as I started the car up. I think it's going to be a night/day difference once I get the tune re-dialed in...

I also now have my wide band O2 hooked up so I'm getting great visibility on actual AFR (can't believe I went this long without putting one in )...


1.) Cold start - It started almost instantaneously.. took me a little by surprise. It also idled much smoother in the cold open loop. (My old 24 lb Bosch/Ford EV1's would crank for a little bit (not horrible), but these Bosch III's plus the correct injector calibration tables provide a noticeable improvement. I hadn't really worked the open loop tables with the old Ford's, but it looks like these new injectors saved me the trouble.

2.) With the LT1 VE tables I have to run the injector constant at 34 lb/hr to hover around 128. Pretty much within "margin of error" as far as I'm concerned.

3.) BLM's are VERY consistent using the LT1 tables and 34 lb/hr injector constant. Initially they were all off in the same direction (rich), so just the small tweak to the injector constant scales the fueling back down to right where I want it. Probably one run through my EZ-VE tuner tool and everything should be spot on. I'm deliberately disabling the PE mode for now to get the VE's dialed in.

4.) I'm going quite lean on part throttle acceleration (hitting 16.5-17:1 even though BLM's are registering 124-129 and integrator around 120). I think this may have to do with my MAT tables (which probably need to be modified again now that I have such a drastic change to the fueling). AFR is showing a little richer than target at idle and leaner than on acceleration, so it appears to be a function of airflow, which leads me to think I need to hit the Inv MAT table.

5.) Throttle transitions are very snappy (especially the neutral throttle blip). Though I did manage to get it like that with the old injectors as well... so not really an improvement. This had more to do with raising the AE Delta TPS scale factor (to mimic the LT1's). But the new injectors maintained that level of performance without having to touch that value, so that's good.



So yeah, I'm now convinced those FIC injectors were totally @!#$-ed up somehow. I'm almost tempted to send them just to see what is wrong with them...