Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Good deal. We just want to be sure about the regulator because you had stated that when you turn the adjustable screw to increase pressure, that it stays at 30-psi no matter what. This may be a possibility that the regulator is ruptured and allowing fuel to bypass right through it. We'll know for sure upon inspection. If by chance the regulator turns out to be good, then it's more than likely the fuel pump, or somewhere in the feed. What I would receommend, inspect the regulator tonight and confirm what you find. If it is okay, then inspect the fuel filter out back to see if it is causing an obstruction. The fuel pump itself is the final thing, but defintetly exhaust all other possiblities because dropping the tank is a pain in the neck, unless you cut an access hole already...

mike22115

So the adjuster screw was frozen. Screwed it out all the way, and sprayed it, blew t out with air ran the screw ALL the way back in just to make sure it's working...it works it went up to almost 80psi, now going to dial it in at 45-50? Correct?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Bring the fuel pressure to about 43-psi with the vacuum line connected. See if the lean popping subsided, it should now. Make sure the IAC steps are between 25-40 at idle by reducing the fast idle screw if you haven't already, and with proper fuel pressure now, get another datalog (with VE Learn). If all is well with no popping, air/fuel is good, shifting is good from Park to Drive, then we will focus on the SA Main Table. With the HSR you will want an LT1 Main Table, not L98...

mike22115

[QUOTE=Street Lethal;6015627]Bring the fuel pressure to about 43-psi with the vacuum line connected. See if the lean popping subsided, it should now. Make sure the IAC steps are between 25-40 at idle by reducing the fast idle screw if you haven't already, and with proper fuel pressure now, get another datalog (with VE Learn). If all is well with no popping, air/fuel is good, shifting is good from Park to Drive, then we will focus on the SA Main Table. With the HSR you will want an LT1 Main Table, not L98...[/QUOTE

Okay so popping is gone now, did 2 learns, made big corrections the first one and smaller ones the second, I think at this point I need to raise the idle and what not again since now the timing and fueling is correct, it's idleibg around 700 and iac in park is still 20 steps but has minor surging in gear

mike22115

[QUOTE=mike22115;6015640]

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yes, it is playing tug of war. Slightly increase the fast idle screw until you reach 30-40 steps on the WUD being displayed, and/or once you reach 825-RPM in Park/Neutral, it will find a happy medium. Once that is done, tell me how she is idling, transitioning, and pulling, then it's on to the SA - Main Table which I will put up for you shortly...

mike22115

IAC's highest steps was 43, for the most part at idle around 39 and around 825-850 rpm in park and 750 in drive, very little surging upon gear change but smooths out quickly, driving is significantly better than this morning lol, probably a tiny bit more tweeking to the iac would be good but not much

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Good, yes, it is just a matter of balancing at that point in terms of the IAC. How does she feel overall? Pulling nice on the street? Next up is the SA - Main Table, after that another VE Learn, and then all that is left is acceleration and power enrichment tweaking to dial everything in...

mike22115

Running good and pulling nice, I think you can send the new SA when ever your ready

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Was putting it together as I wrote this. It is essentially the $EE SA table, but I had to add to it due to the increase in kpa resolution with the EBL-P4. Keep your values untouched down low for the idle, but place the new values from 1200-RPM (not 1000-RPM) and above. The extended tables too, add them as well. The 1000-RPM row leave blank for now as that will be an "average" between your current 800-RPM row and the new 1200-RPM row. Now, do not flash it in and floor the throttle, first see where your total timing is in the WUD, it'll be higher, and if you are running too much for your combo (remember the LT1 has aluminum heads) then just lower the numbers in the final row on the right...

Edit: Check your inbox, and don't forget to do another VE Learn...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

An update for you guys following along. Mike loaded the LT1 Main SA table into his bin, and he is very happy with the performance. I sent him the table in a PM only because I don't want members reading along to essentially over do it with their own engines, as the timing can be aggressive. I advised him to listen for any knock by ear, and to look for knock in the WUD which essentially tells you where and when, an excellent tool. Mike, do me a favor, can you datalog the engine one last time for me, but take the car out to a nice strip, start the datalog, power brake to load the engine, and launch it while staying in it for as long as you can? Not a quarter mile bonzai blast, just close to an 1/8th mile, just be careful doing it and make sure their are no children out. I'd like to see how she is running...

- Rob

mike22115

Will do that tonight, I did a launch yesterday but didn't datalog it and it spins all of first gea, it has a 2.73 open diff rear (for now) lol, but I'll try to get it to hook as best I can

mike22115

I drove it to work today (about 25 minutes) and it ran a little hot, usually its 190-200 today it was around 225 cruising on the highway, I'm going to readjust the SA and then do the 1/8 mile pull and data log

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

No no, SA is fine...

You have to adjust the fan settings again for the new bin, stock is 225...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

For reference, here is the grid. Change it as follows...;

Celsius to Fahrenheit (input the new Celsius values on the right);

1 (on) 107.75 (226*F) - New Celsius Value = 87.77 (190*F)
1 (off) 104.75 (220*F) - New Celsius Value = 76.66 (170*F)
2 (on) 113.00 (235*F) - New Celsius Value = 87.77 (190*F)
2 (off) 107.75 (226*F) - New Celsius Value = 76.66 (170*F)

mike22115

My fans run with key on...I live in Florida and during the summers when it get 100+ degrees it's the only way I could keep it cool

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I hear ya. Highlight the whole entire Main Table from 1000-RPM and up and deduct a few points down to a level in which the engine seems more happy in terms of temperature. Be careful with the datalog, as the last one I did I shredded my flywheel and almost lost control when the turbo started to spool, and there were some kids around the area. Just be careful.

mike22115

Sent that datalog to your email,:still on the same SA table you sent me haven't touched it yet

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Looking at it now, I can immediately tell from the datalog that the 1000-RPM line in the SA - Main Table is still blank. Make sure you go back into the bin and put an average value on that empty 1000-RPM line, get the averaged number from the two numbers above and below it. I forgot to mention earlier that Tuner Pro won't average it for you automatically if you leave it blank. Take the value from top row and from the bottom row and average them, the averaged number will be the value that will go onto the 1000-RPM line. As an example, if the 800-RPM value says 24.00, and the 1200-RPM value says 30.00, add the two numbers together then divide them by two, and the averaged value for the 1000-RPM row will be 27.00. Do that calculation from left to right using the numbers above and below filling in the 1000-RPM row.

Edit: Total timing shows 37* when you are in it, during decel I am showing upwards of 40* at around 32kpa. Again this is due to it being from an LT1 SA main table. You can go into those areas where you see those higher values and just knock off a point or two if need be...

mike22115

Did all the averaging for 1000rpm and reduced everything by -2 haven't had much time to try it yet though, going to test it tonight, do you want another 1/8 mile data log? It's Saturday night and around here that's when all he fun happens lol

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

From the datalog that you sent last, the torque converter is coupling at about 3200-RPM off of the foot brake. You need to get a posi in that thing. The heck with the datalog get me some go-pro video of your third gen laying the smack down on someone...

mike22115

Lol don't worry the gopro videos and the posi are both coming soon! I drove it out to our local car meet last night, ran real good (especially since I averaged the 1000rpm line) and timing goes to 37-39 max now, and ran at a cool 190-200 degrees. I'm pretty happy with the way it's running rite now, still haven't gone into those specific areas on the SA to make certain changes yet but will do a data log tonight and see where they need to be made.
What's next! I like where all of this has been going lol
And unfortunately the cops got to our "theoretical" street racing spot before we did lol

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

If the cooling seems under control now, then you can pretty much leave the SA Table as is, just keep monitoring it every now and then, and be sure to avoid the cheaper gas when you go to the pump...

Wait until you try a little turbo boost pressure...

Over by me they had Imports vs Domestics today are Raceway Park. I stopped off at my local Wawa to get a Red Bull and they were all there just hanging out. Wish I had the GTA with me, was in my four banger Cruz lol. Looked like a scene straight out of the Fast and Furious. Guys here have been patiently waiting for the weather to get better, and boy did it ever.

mike22115

Yeah since I live in Florida its racing season all year round.winter months is boost season lol not cold enough for snow but cold enough for a lot of boost.
I remember you mentioned earlier about tweekig the PE and AE? Still think that's required? Also I plan on boosting it eventually I'd like to know more about your set up If you could PM me some info on it id appreciate it
I'll do another log tomorrow and send it and see if you see anything that needs attention...maybe I'll include a gopro video too lol

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Power enrichment/acceleration enrichment will fine tune your engine. Acceleration enrichment is a given, just check to see if the commanded air/fuel ratio deviates too much from your commanded setting and adjust as necessary to maintain what you need to. With power enrichment you need to take into consideration some variables as to when, why and how much. Do another datalog with the engine running the way it does now and I will show you what you will want to look for in these two areas...

I might have a couple of older videos of my setup, but trust me when I tell you that if you go the boosted route, will have you up and running with any turbo you choose in a matter of minutes. All you need is a GM 2-Bar MAP sensor, larger injectors based on how much power you want to achieve to keep your Injector Duty Cycle in check, and of course, a turbo setup. Not too much boost if the engine is cast though, but enough to have fun...

mike22115

Sent a log to your email let me know what you think

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Your highest RPM reached was 5350-RPM, and you were at 70% duty cycle with those 27-lb injectors. That would normally equate to about 305-RWHP at that RPM, however your O2mv were dropping again right at 4000-RPM and up, and you were losing fuel at the higher RPM's in that log. At 4475-RPM you were at only 53 O2mv and averaged that up until you reached 5350-RPM. Once you let off, O2mv jumped back up to normal, so you still have a fuel pressure issue prevalent. Test the fuel pump again from 4000-RPM all the way up to wherever you have your RPM capped with a load behind the engine, see how far fuel pressure is dropping. That needs to be resolved first before going any further...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Here is a picture for reference. Look at your O2mv's, they are averaging two digits from 4475-RPM all the way up to 5350-RPM. I can easily calculate horsepower based on injector size and duty cycle, but if the O2 sensor is saying something else in terms of the actual air/fuel, then the calculated fuel is just not being burned because it is not there...

mike22115

Should I increase some fuel pressure then? Also could this be because my fpr vacuum line is Tee'd into my Map vacuum line? Should they be separate? Also I haven't done a VE learn on this BIN yet, would that effect anything?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I don't think it would be that drastic enough to see that much of a fuel pressure decrease, but run them separately anyway just for good measure. It's not so much that a lack of VE Learn would cause that in that area, because remember, in Power Enrichment the fuel table is in Open Loop, so the O2 sensor, despite not being used, is still just measuring what it is metering, so it should be close. Your fuel trim is positive when entering Power Enrichment, so technically your O2mv should be reading richer than your Power Enrichment target. It appears to be a mechanical issue, either the regulator again or the pump itself cannot keep up. Run the vacuum lines separately and test the fuel pump again, if the pressure in the gauge falls at those levels then it is still either the regulator itself or the fuel pump.

mike22115

So I ran the two separate, just to make sure I took the FPR adjustment screw and turned it in a few turns to see what it would raise my fuel pressure to, the screw is almost all the way in and fuel pressure at idle is only 40-45psi basicly no change from before ...now let's remember that a few days ago I turned the pressure regulator all the way up and it was hitting 60psi, not sure if this means the regulator went out in these last few days or if the pump is on its way out because of the increased pressure I've been running, as far as I know the pump is the original

mike22115

But I have also heard on this forum the Holley fpr's are crappy, some saying they only lasted a few days

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Sorry for the late response Mike, got wrapped up with work. Run the same test with the fuel pressure gauge again, but this time momentarily "pinch" the short braided return line that you added to essentially restrict fuel entering into the return. If pressure still does not increase above 4000-RPM, its more than likely the pump. If it does increase, it's the regulator...

mike22115

Sorry been really busy myself these last few days haven't had much time to mess with the car, but I will be doing that test tomorrow, I'm predicting it being the pump honestly because it is the original...if it is, walBoro 255 will be on the way by next week lol

mike22115

No increase at all looks like a fuel pump will be on the way soon

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I honestly wish I was there to help rule out the regulator for you, not to mention the rest of the fuel system (filter, rails, injectors, etc.) but the new pump will be needed anyway especially if you plan to boost the engine, so it is good insurance either way. Some key things to do and look for while your waiting for the pump to arrive are the basics, check the fuel lines to see if you have any leaks front to back, replace the fuel filter as they are cheap enough to do and it might be clogged, I would also look at and test the fuel injectors...

mike22115

When I first start the motor the fuel pressure is around 43. As the motor warms up it drops to 38-40. When I rev it the pressure decreases slightly,
As for the injectors they are a few months old from southbay,the fuel filter is also relitivly new.
But just incase how should I go about testing the injectors? Just ohm meter?
I'm going to replace the pump anyway, but I probably won't be ordering it for another week or so. Which one do you run in your car?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It's the drop in pressure that would point to the fuel pump, or a possible fuel leak somewhere in the feed before even reaching the fuel rails. I mentioned fuel injectors and fuel filter just as a means of inspecting the entire system, just to be sure everything is working properly. Southbay from what I read are very credible and provide quality injectors. When I test my injectors I just ohm them to make sure they are reading accurately, then I will lift the fuel rail out from the intake manifold with the key already off, hold it up in mid air and have a friend key on to build pressure to see if they are leaking. I went with the DW300c from Deatschwerks, so far no complaints whatsoever, E85 compatible as well...

http://www.deatschwerks.com/resource...fuel-pump-tech

mike22115

Yeah I don't think theirs a fuel leak because like I said When we resolved the popping issue I turned up the pressure all the way up to 60 psi just to make sure the regulator was working properly... since then the only thing I've taken off fuel system wise is the rails to adjust the fuel pressure and I haven't seen any leaks from the rails or fittings going into the rails,
Is that pump a direct replacement for the stock in tank or a external? And how much did it cost you

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

This is why I mentioned awhile back to keep the fuel pressure gauge on for awhile after you shut down the engine to confirm that pressure is still being held. If pressure starts to drop too quickly after engine shut down then there is a leak, or the pump is simply no longer holding pressure. Yes, the fuel pump I went with is a direct replacement in tank pump. Back in the day a few Grand National guys turned me onto this pump...

mike22115

ill monitor that today. also I may need to try another SA table, ive taken quite a bit out of the LT1 tune and still the temp is running hot when cruising on the highway at 70-80mph, its perfect when I'm city driving but on the highway I cant keep it cool

mike22115

It goes from 40-0psi over the course of about 10-15 minutes

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Datalog the engine at those speeds on the highway, and write down what your total timing is saying, as well as your RPM and MAP kpa. This is the area where you want to go into in your SA - Main Table and reduce it a little more if the timing is indeed showing that it is too high for the engine in that specific area. Don't forget your fuel pump is also bad and losing pressure, so running lean will effect your coolant temperature as well...

Yeah, it's the pump, its bad. Did you cut an access hole, or are you forced to drop the rear to get to the tank? You are also running the pump off of a switched 12 volt source to run it constantly, correct?

mike22115

I'll do the data log after I change the pump, hopefully will be next week (waiting on my tax money) , and I haven't cut a access hole yet because I've never changed the pump but I deffinetly will be cutting a hole for sure.
And rite now the pump is going to the relay that came with the painless harness(Wasn't painless btw) lol should I change it to a regular toggle switch?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Definitely take your time with it. Out of the dozens and dozens of third gens I have had (literally) I cut the access hole for maybe four or five of them. First you find yourself cringing when doing it, but then you're soon over that feeling immediately after the first pump is replaced. A job that once took hours to do is done in minutes. I used GM saginaw fittings for mine, but not really needed. Just no worm clamps. Once the hole is cut, find the smallest handheld hacksaw you can find with the sharpest blade, and cut right through all four lines a decent distance away from the tank. Just look for and wipe away any fuel residue before doing so, and although the pump loses fuel on its' own, press on the schrader valve anyway just in case, and for peace of mind. Give yourself enough room to work, as well as to reach whenever you go back in for a pump swap. You can keep the pump harness the way it is, the only reason why I asked was because it looked like the pump voltage was being triggered constantly with only key on in the WUD during the warmup datalog in the very beginning, that is why I thought you hooked it to a 12 volt switched source already...