nuggie

okay so I am starting to get super frustrated with tuning, I even paid to have someone tune it and it ran great on the dyno, but around town it ran like crap so then I found and an auto tun program for it at http://mattw2.dyndns.org:81/cgi-bin/AutoTune.pl then when I uploaded my log file I always get I always get empty results and get this
Name: 11-17.csv
Number of lines in log file: 3799
Number of samples evaluated(above min. temp):
Number of samples ignored(below min. temp): 3799
it looks like it ignores everything due to temp but I set the temp at 100 and still got nothing anyone got experience with this, am I copy and pasting the right table it asks for the F29x table and from what I can find out that is just the VE tables right?

Vanilla Ice

What's wrong with how it drives around town?

nuggie

the AFR was all over the place and would almost load up like a carb back fire a bit then would take off from a stop light under normal conditions, and would most of the time die at idle if I had the brake on. I had been fallowing a few of your post on other forums forums vanilla ice, you are a gold mine of good info

The_Punisher454

Are you running code 59? I haven't used the "auto tune" utility you link to before, but it looks like it is designed specifically for code 59. If you are using anything else it probably wont work.

nuggie

what exactly do you mean by that? I am not 100% what code 59 is

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Code 59 ($59) is an enhanced code, based on $58, that has many awesome features but still runs in certain Delco ECMs.

If you're not sure what it is, you're not using it and the auto tune utility that you linked to in your first post will not work. It's specific to Code 59 and will give erroneous data for any other code.

I've never had good luck with the spreadsheet based auto tuners, I prefer to manually tune for Delco ECMs.

nuggie

okay so is there a way to use code 59 or is manual my only option I mean I plan on having back on the dyno before next season but I'd like to get some stuff figured out myself

Vanilla Ice

What have you done to the car to possibly require a tune?
It may be easiest and best to go back to OEM values on some of the tables.

The_Punisher454

you dont need to go to the dyno to tune. drive and log, then adjust tables afterwards based on the log. That will do it for the biggest portion of your tune.
You can add a wideband (if you dont already have one) for less than the cost of a short dyno session. then you can log with the wideband which can get you basically all the data thing you need for editing your tables.
Then when youre done enough with that you can go to the dyno and get a printout to show your friends.

and for spreadsheet editors like that code59 one you linked earlier, there are several available other masks as well.

but as VanillaIce pointed out above, start with a good base and unless you have something way far from stock you wont need much.

nuggie

the motor is far from stock its got and cam port and polished heads holley stealth ram intake roller rockers headers timing gears and I have 42GPH injectors, I have a wideband but I have been unable to get that to show up in tuner pro so we have been going of the gauge in the dash I assume there must be a way to get it communicate with tuner pro, because don't see how data logging is helpful without it. I don't know for sure what mask I am using what is that referencing?

nuggie

how do connect the widband to tunerpro?

Vanilla Ice

There's no easy way to do that without hardware from moates or similar.
http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-....html?cPath=64

If you're handy with bin editing you can make the ecu read a new pin directly and plug the wire into the ecu harness then edit the output stream to include the new ram address with a customized ADX file...

nuggie

I already have that moats setup... do I have to go straight from the wideband controller to the emulator?

nuggie

I really apricate you guys I know I may sound kinda ignorant but I am tring to learn this also thought how do I figure out what code I am using I have never came across that.

The_Punisher454

It sounds like you jumped right into the thick of it before you were really up to speed on how it all works.

I strongly recommend you read up on all the tuning tutorials and how-to's for programming GM OBD1 fuel injection. This forum (and the links found here) is a treasure trove of information. You are in the right place for sure.

But back to your car, first of all what computer are you using? I'm gonna guess a 730. next you need to read your chip, check it out in tunerpro the mask ID is at the top of the list of parameters. You mentioned an emulator, I'm guessing its an ostrich but there are a couple other less common choices. So If you have it running on an emulator youve already read your stock chip and copied the bin (binary file) to the emulator. next we need to know what "mask" you are running. your original probably still has the sticker on it. you can look it up here
http://www.scotthansen.net/BCCLookup.pdf
There is also an excel version someplace online too.
The "mask" is basically which program thats is running in the ecu. Most ECU's will run several different masks. now among each mask there can be a large number of factory "bin's" which are copies of the program with changes made to the calibration.

for example a very common and popular mask for the 730 computer is $8D. And a very popular bin for that mask is "AUJP" which is the calibration for a 91 corvette with auto (IIRC).

what you need is to have the right XDF, and ADX file in tunerpro along with a copy of your bin loaded.
using this link http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm#GM
you will find $8D near the top of the list of GM definitions. Tunerpro needs the right definitions to work properly since its a universal program that can work with everything from honda's to chevies to volkswagons and none of them are anything alike.

Also Tunerpro has made some changes as it evolved over the years and the definition formats for the ALDL have changed from ".ads" to the newer ".adx" formats and also the bin definitions format has changed from ".ecu" to ".xdf". Tunerpro will convert older definition types for you.

To read your Wideband in tunerpro you need to have a bin file that has been modified to read 0-5v from one of the spare analog inputs on the ECU. thats where you connect the linear output signal from your wideband controller. The bin file needs to be set up to send the reading of that input out on the ALDL datastream.
Your ADX file needs to be set to display the data bytein the datastream corresponding to the wideband input. It will normally be a single byte value 0-255. Tunerpro has everything built in to allow you to scale that byte of data into real world numbers.

BTW, you do have an ALDL cable right? thats what you will use to log and monitor through tuner pro. the emulator is just a replacement for a chip burner, its just way more convenient than pulling chips, burning new versions, then re-installing and trying again. its a few seconds to upload a new tune compared to tens of minutes or even hours depending on what you have.

If you use a custom modified mask something like "SAUJP" (search this forum) the hard stuff is already done for you. Also SAUJP (super aujp) has some things fixed and improved over the stock code along with quite a few new things added (like wideband input). Its not a custom tune, its a modified code. Which is also what "code59' is, a customized mask with a lot of new functionality.

modified masks sometimes come with some quirks and such that may not make them the best choice for your first time. I recommend something like stock AUJP ($8D mask) first. get fluent with the process then try some more advanced stuff.

But anyhow, you should read alot of stuff here before you try to go any further. Your frustration level will go way down.

The_Punisher454

BTW what cam are you running, thats the biggest variable in your engines personality.

nuggie

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=120&sb=2 that is the spec sheet from the cam, the biggest variable would probably be the heads I went from the stock swirl port to ported open chambers with 2.02 valves. I am running the 730 ecu okay and it shows code mask as 8D, should I change it to one of the others? and for the wide band the controller has an output for the ecu does it have a separate for the laptop for to I need to configure it in the software so the cu can use the wide band signal thus showing it in tuner pro? If I am understand you correctly the masks sets up what you can do in the bin or is it the bin itself.

The_Punisher454

the mask and the bin are one in the same. The bin file is just an exact copy of whats loaded into the ecu.
All the various bins for a particular mask, are all the same base program, just the tables flags and switches are different. When you make a change to your in tunerpro and save it you just created a new ".bin" for that mask ($8D in your case).

I recommend sticking with $8D, and that cam and heads are totally within the capabilities of $8D. It should run on a stock bin, but will need tuning to be right. You'll be spending most of your tuning efforts in the VE tables.
Tuner-pro needs the wideband data to be included in the datastream sent back from your ecu through the ALDL port. Your emulator will also be connected to tunerpro at the same time as the ALDL cable just through another USB port on the laptop. as far as I know there is not currently a way to input the wideband separately into tuner pro.
It works good being included in the datastream, that way its automatically included in your log file.

nuggie

okay so I prtty much at the point I thought I was then thanks for the clarification and explanation of the terminology I thinks that is where I was getting lost, so I just need to take the second ouput from the WB controller and put them in the other port on the emulator then what do I need to change inside the bin to allow it to read the WB sensor?

Vanilla Ice

True enough for the purposes, but not entirely accurate.

The_Punisher454

trying to keep it simple, sometimes my words fail me :?
having done alittle bit of uC programming its clear in my head, but hard to explain.

nuggie;
if you are using an ostrich or similar you cannot plug the WB into it. the emulator is simply a memory chip that pretends to be the original eprom chip in the ecu. You need to plug the wb output into the wiring harness (actually just one pin in the ecu).
Attached is a pdf that shows how to setup wideband on Saujp v4. its been a while, I dont know if you can use it just like this on an unmodified $8D bin or not. its just an example.

The_Punisher454

good info here.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-8D

nuggie

I am sorry but I still don't understand how hooking that up is ganna make it recognize that as a WB signal? the software already recognizes the narrow band I am just trying to get it to show as the actually afr is that what I should be looking for? from my last test the o2 reading for a great majority of the run was 1096.16

nuggie

that gear head page 404 on me

Vanilla Ice

Your car doesn't read the wideband. You have to have an apu1 or run different software from oem to get the computer to recognize the wideband signal.

nuggie

does it really need to I mean it gets the narrow band signal I thought the wideband signal was only need for tune software/guages

The_Punisher454

yes correct, the stock ecu will not use the wideband signal for closed loop operation. the stock code isnt written to do that. The only thing the cars computer will be doing with that wideband signal is sending out the data in its datastream so that you can monitor and use it in the tuning software.
VanillaIce mentioned the APU1, I have no experience with that.

nuggie

ahh okay I understand that helps. so I would need to do that before a "autotune" program would work? or is there a tool I can use now that would help guide me in the right direction

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Chapter 5
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...uide-book.html
If your wanting to use the wb and do ve learns look not
Dynamic efi's ebl p4.
Sounds like the dyno was just the upper kpa area tuning for wot.

nuggie

ahh okay I found the tool but I can't quiet make out what you said there

nuggie

another quick question when doing some on the go tuning what is the easiest way to turn off closed loop? or is it best to tune it in closed loop?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

To disable closed loop max min coolant temp for closed loop fuel.
There are many who tune in open loop, I prefer closed loop and using int feedback.

nuggie

okay I finally got a version of excel so I can open the tools now and its asking for a calibration what is that?

nuggie

"You need a Tunerpro history file giving BLM vs MAP vs RPM as well as your VE table from your calibration. A couple of copy and pastes later and you have an updated VE table to copy and paste back into your calibration file"


What is BLM vs MAP vs RPM table and where can I find it? and what does BLM mean?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You will need to create histograms in tunerpro
Blm = block learn multiplier (long term fuel trim)

nuggie

how do you set up a histogram?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

This is the basic idea on how to modify your adx file.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...es-in-TunerPro

nuggie

okay awesome that is gonna make things a lot easier thanks for the info I don't see why it would cause an issue but can I make multiple table for extended and lower table or can I just make the perimeters different so I can have them all on one table? Also what do I do with this information I am current playing a log file and it is filling it in but I have no idea what this data means, right now its all about 108-128 and I dunno what that means.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You need to educate yourself on basic tuning read the stickies!

Your running rich below 128 Blm.
Sounds like your spreadsheet tuning.
Simply put divide the Blm number bye 128. Take that value and divide the corrisponding kpa rpm ve and enter in the result.
You will need to setup two history tables one for the lower and one for the upper ve. Not all the data will be real results especially the 1600 overlap.
You can still get the tune pretty close even though the data averages may each replay /clear of a log.
Spreadsheet tuning works but it will take you several tunes to perfect.

nuggie

so 128 = 14.7 but don't I want it at 12.5 in the P.E. mode? what would that be?

nuggie

isn't the VE listed in BLM or am I looking for a different result?

nuggie

in the spreed sheet tool it asks for a calibrated table is that your current VE table?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Since your struggling with the basics of tuning sounds like you need to find someone to tune it for you or a alternative ecm like dynamic efi ebl , fast or Holley self learning.

Vanilla Ice

This or seriously do some reading on the subject. I am a huge advocate for the ease of tuning and anybody can do it, but you NEED to have some knowledge. These are scary questions that you are asking.