gvampyr

Ok guys here's my problem. I got my '91 Bird back from my mechanic who could only get the car to start but not stay started. He replaced the steering column and the ignition cylinder with a new key as well. When he returned my car to me (on a tow truck, being as he couldn't get the car started again) the battery was dead from the tow truck person leaving the ignition in the on position. But long story short, I hooked up my diagnostic computer after recharging the battery and it's giving me a VATS/Power Steering fault code. The car will not start but it will crank and crank and crank, etc...... I called the dealership and they suggested turning the ignition on for fifteen minutes to allow the computer to reset the code. Been there, done that still no change. Please give me any suggestions you may have? I want my Bird roadworthy again.

gvampyr

bump

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

ok i know your new set up has the vats chip in it??? right??? or i hope so because if it dont than thats your problem right there, no vats key, but im sure its not that simple, make sure you got the same vats chip in your new key as was in your old one, you can do this by putting a multi meter on each side of the chip ( where the metal parts on the plastic chip are ) and make sure the resistance is the same, this will tell you if they are the same number, another way is to take both keys to the dealer ship and ask them to read what number the keys are


another ????? it turns over but, dont start, what are you missing, no spark, or no fuel???

gvampyr

You are right, it's not that simple for I do have the vats key. Problem is I don't have the original any more and I'm not sure what my mechanic did with it. I'll check the spark, the firing order and the fuel delivery. Although I was to understand if the fuel pump turns on (which it does) and the car cranks then the vats is reading the proper resistance off of the key. I'll be back to let you know what happened. Thank you for your time.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

yea i would have to break my book out to know if vats controls the fuel pump or what not.... a dealership cant pull up what number chip the car had stock, so i dont know....is yoursTBI, if it is its easy as pie to know if the pump is on or not, what all did he do to it other than the column?

gvampyr

Yes, it is TBI, and he also replaced the distributor, and tried troubleshooting wiring, relays, and vacuum controls. I went and checked the firing order and it is correct according to the chiltons manual. Any other input you may have would be greatly appreciated. I will be checking for spark tomorrow.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

ummm if he used boush plugs then that can be a problem, i did a tune up with them and my car ran worse, is used ac delco rapid fires, and it purs now
here is a link to my tune up post,

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...e-up-runs.html

and you know its getting fuel, can you see fuel spray comming from both injectors? dont know how mechanical you are but its easy to do just remove the breather and have a friend try and start the car, you should be able to see the fuel spray into the bores ot the TB unit

on the tune up i would like to add that i always use di eletric greese on my treminals for insurance, plus it makes the boots easy to remove so you can change plugs without messing up your wires, and thats good if you do like i did and run good quality wires (MSD, Moroso, Accel etc etc), leads to another story check the resistance of your plug wires to see if they are within spec, you chilton "bible" can tell you the specs in i think the tune up section

lets go from here, see what you got, if you aint got spark to any of the plugs then we will open that can of worms later, you said he replaced the dist. by that do you mean the WHOLE thing, like a new shaft, module, rotor button, and cap??? or just the cap and rotor???

DrewsCam

iTrader: (2)

my friend has a 92 z28 and he dissabled the VATS system... what you do is find the control for the VATS system and you can buy a variable resistor and wire it in the place of the VATS chip and just adjust the resistor until you reach the right setting... Once you have that you don't even need the VATS key anymore... I'll talk with him tomorrow and get you more detailed instructions on how to bypass the system so you can get your beast back on the road...

gvampyr

Well it is official, I'm not getting any spark, and my plugs are fouled like you wouldn't believe with only under 100 miles on the tune up I did when I got the car. So I'm off to the auto store. I'll keep you updated.

gvampyr

Ok here's the deal, I replaced the coil and the sparkplugs (Autolite Platinum), and my car seems to be cranking faster but still will not fire up. Plugs 2, 4, and 6 were fouled to the point it looked like they were burnt, plugs 1, 3, and 5 looked fine. I'm still getting my vats failure on my code reader and the security light stays lit the entire time the ignition is on. Here's my question, will one of those vats bypass kits do the job for me? Since I do not know the original key's resistance.

macertheracer

ok here is the down and dirty find your ECM, get a wiring diagram find the VATS inputs to the ECM put a varable resistor across the lines, or from a 12vdc line into a single input, ( I do not have a diagram here, unsure of exacts ) then adjust the voltage going into the VATS IN line to arround 6vdc, it should bypass the vats system

gvampyr

Does anybody know the specifications of the pot, that I need to bypass the vats, and can't I just connect it to the existing wires coming from the ignition?

macertheracer

A 10k ohm should do the trick, I wish i could remember the exact resistance That I used last time ---- but I am lost on that one and you can use the acc power from the Ign switch ( no power when key is off)
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P.S. 12 volts in common to th oposite side VATS input from the wiper

gvampyr

I'm sorry, I'm not really understanding the procedure can you break it down for me?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

To bypass the vats, this should explain it pretty well.

The odd thing is when my VATS was acting up, the engine didnt turn over at all. It did absolutely NOTHING and the Security light popped on. And you'd have to let it sit for 5 minutes or so before you could try again. Once the system gets tripped you have to wait for it to reset.

Does a real good job of foiling car thieves, but it does an even better job of giving the owner problems when it's 15-20 years old.

gvampyr

so much for the info this will come in quite useful after I get to the electronics store. Once again I will update you all on the outcome, and hopefully it will be this......

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

still sounds wierd, as said before VATs normaly makes the car totaly dead, you said "Plugs 2, 4, and 6 were fouled to the point it looked like they were burnt, plugs 1, 3, and 5 looked fine." seems wierd that one side of the motor is getting fire and the other isnt, im guessing you have a V6, so you got multi port injection, guess you should make sure there is fuel on the side thats not hitting, seems wierd, like an spark or fuel problem, not a vats

gvampyr

Ok so I go to bypass my vats and guess what I find? An open connector to the ignition wires, and another open on the vats, I could shoot my mechanic for making me feel dumber than he should. Anyways the security light was still holding solid after I reconnected the vats, so I disconnected the battery hoping this will reboot the computer? If this will not work I'm hoping that you very helpful people will have more ideas for me? But yeah, thanx for the help even though I'm feeling pretty lame right now.

gvampyr

The problem I'm having with this, is why the hell was the car trying to crank when the vats was disconnected? Did this guy fry my ecm or my vats module? Or is there a simple fix to this problem?

macertheracer

when you get the adjustable pot it will have 3 leggs on it, connect 12vdc to one say the far left as you hold it, then ground the far right, and lastly take the center (wiper) to the Vats input on your ECU. connect your multimeter to the center lead and adjust for 6vdc, the car should start, you may need to go 1/2 volt increments either way until it goes. I hope this gets it, if not let me know and I'll get out the prints for more research
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I just missed you

macertheracer

**

92camaroz28ss

iTrader: (1)

personally i would not disble vats, my car was almost stolen and vats and possibly the ignition lock were the only things that saved it.

if you so choose to do so, it is possible to do by jumping a relay behind the driver sede kick panel. i have a 92 z28 and one of the relays behind the driver kick panel can be jumped with nothing more than a single wire to make the car start. a friend of mine showed me how to do it. i know it worked because i was standing there and because the vats wires to the column were unplugged when the car started.

if need be i could go out and look at it and possibly remember how to do it.

lotusstunts

I have an 89 that was acting up all the time. Sometimes It would sit and crank over, but not start. I could always tell when it was going to start, because the tach would move right when I hit the starter. Finally after all the aggrivation I bought a new ignition with the new wire and everything, installed it, never had a problem since.

gvampyr

Thank you all for your help, my Bird is now road worthy. When I first bypassed the VATs I used a variable resistor plugged into the VATs module at a reading of 5230 ohms and it started. Then it was overheating, so I found my heater control valve was leaking. Then I tried to start it again and was getting nothing. So I went to True value and bought the key I thought I needed, which was measuring at 524 ohms and the guy was trying to sell me the same key blank I was allready using, which was measuring 6040 ohms, but didn't work. So I tried hooking up the ignition to the VATs once again and got nothing. I was livid, when I cooled down I set my pot at 6040 ohms, hooked it up to the VATs module and I'm now . So once again thank you all for your help maybe my experience will help others.