Iroc-Dennis

hello

i have do the tpi to carb swap.

i use the original tpi altenator,the car is a 88 iroc-z.

the plug of the altenator hase 3 wires.
1 brown 1 tan/white 1 red wire on the plug.

the tan/white wire was connected before the swap on some other same collor wire`s.
i looked ad it were it go`s and i see that the collingfan relay was connected with this wire from the altenator!

now i have do the swap to carb,i dont use the original cooling fan plug
so i have cut the tan/white wire of and left about 1 feet on the altenator connector.

so for now i only use the brown and red wire on the connector.
the red is for the constand + and the brown is for the ignition +.

now wen the car is not on ignition the altenator make some pieping noise
even when the ignition is on!!
so it looks like it hase constand power or what.
i got also no 12v on the brown wire!
and wen i ad 12v from the battery to the brown wire it doesen`t stop with the noise.
the only way to stop the noise is to ad negative - to the brown or left tan/white wire.

what must i do to make it perfect working?
i don`t now if the battery is charging because my camaro is not jet ready to start!
everything works fine on the car only the altenator is.....

can anybody tell in the right way what de browm wire does and were it connect under the dash?!!??
can it be that the volt indicator is bad and not giving th 12v ??

i hope somebody canhelp me finaly.

dennis

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

get a one wire alt and call it a day

I have noticed the amount of problems that the wiring harness are now providing for out f body and it is time to learn wiring or make it super simple

Iroc-Dennis

hi
is was thinking about to buy a one wire alt.
but wil my original volt gauge work on my dash??

or can i make my alt problem simple to ad a 12v ignition wire to the brown wire
or wil this don`t work?

dennis

NINÅ

Iroc-Dennis

okey but how do it work that the original volt meter stil works wit another type of altenator?

i thought that the brown wire also going trou the volt meter.

so how get the voltmeter his volt? or how must i explain it.

dennis

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Isn't the brown wire the exciter wire?

DAREDEVIL 1

Sorry to chime in here as a newby, but i think there are 2 brown wires, 1 is the volt meter and the other 1 i don't know.

Atleast on my suburban its like that. On my camaro ......haven't looked yet.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

My bad... 87 uses two brown wires... One for the volt meter, and another as an exciter from the FP-FAN fuse.

I gotta admit I'm a bit lost... I've read the original post at least three times and I still don't get what the OP is trying to accomplish, beyond a carb to tpi swap.

Iroc-Dennis

hi there

under the hood there is no second brown wire!!!
under the dash or behind the dash i can see two brown wire`s.
1 wire come`s from the ignition and going to a large plug on the steeringcolum
the brown wire has 12 v there.
i follow the brown wire as fare as i can see,and it going in to a large wire harnes behind the gauge cluster.
if i pull out the gauge cluster you see some brown wire`s that going to the dash connector on the right side.
i don`t get any 12 v on the brown wire`s there.

i think the wiring go`s this route is this right???

from the ignitionkey to the steering colum connector than to the dashboard
than to the fuse block than to the C100 plug and than to the altenator.

and who can tell me whitch connecter i must have behind the gauge cluster?
and which pin.

thanks dennis

NINÅ

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

how many volts do you have at the back of the alt post w/nut

you could buy a one wire kit and keep your volt meter plug in

you need a multimeter

they are like 10 bucks for a good one and trust me you will need it with the super old gm wiring harness under the hood

just trying to help do not get frustrated

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That makes sense, cause while the 87 Camaro Electrical Diagnosis book I've got here shows that brown wire going to the voltmeter, I've had the cluster out of my 87 Camaro with guages, and that brown wire is there, but there's no trace on the printed circuit to carry the signal to the volt gauge. That's what I get for trusting the book...

Iroc-Dennis

drew your right i have the same here!
do you have 12v on that wire behind the gauge cluster?
do you have the same problem??

dennis

Iroc-Dennis

and can somebody tell me what to do with the white/tan wire??

since i have do the swap from tpi to carb i have left this wire on the altenator connector.
it was connect before on the electric fan relay but the fan hase is own new relay now.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I had a recurring low voltage problem after three batteries and three alternators. I pulled the cluster to check the voltage, and if I remember correctly it was 12v+. My problem turned out to be a junk parts store alternator. I had an auto electric shop build me a new alternator with GM parts and the problem went away.

Iroc-Dennis

i have let check the altenator today by the carshop.
the altenator is fine,so there is no 12v problem with the altenator.
i have check the wiring again with the altenator unpluged and still no 12v on the brown wire.

does anybody know what happening if i cut the brown wire somewere and ad a ignition wire to it so the altenator will work how it must work only not on the original way.

is there a dash diagram?

dennis

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The TAN/WHITE wire needs to be connected to an ignition on source (this is the alternator voltage sensing wire)... The BROWN one is just for the gauge. It couldn't hurt to connect both, I suppose, but the brown wire is primarily for the light (which you don't have).

Iroc-Dennis

are you sure about that??
i think your wrong.

the red is to the starter
the brown going to the C100 plug and that must be a ignition wire
and the tan/white wire was connected before on the fan relay`s

but i don`t use the original fan system anymore so the wire is left over now.


but will it give any problem if i cut the brown wire under the dash and ad a good ignition wire to it to prime the altenator when the key is on.
because i can`t find the 12v problem whitch i have with that wire.

dennis

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Ugh... See for yourself. I had my alternator repaired by a truck shop (no other choice, the car died in PA), and the guy screwed up that TAN/WHT wire, causing me to charge a full volt less than what I had been charging at. It wasn't until I replaced the alternator connector, the C/H FAN fuse, and about a foot of the alternator wiring harness that my charge rate went up to 14.7 VDC...

:edit: 92 wiring diagram is different, I'll get one from the other FSM later...

Iroc-Dennis

can anyone tell me what the best way is to rewire the altenator and that the other things will work like before??!!

dennis

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The tan/white wire running to the fan relay should be hooked to ignition..

As per my 87 FSM:

Heavy wire coming from either the power junction behind the headlights or the battery itself if modified goes to the BAT screw terminal. Always hot.

Heavy red wire coming from the starter at FUSIBLE LINK "J" goes to the "S" terminal in the 4-wire connector. Again, always hot.

Yours may be TAN/WHT (so is mine, and it comes out of the passenger's side of the dash at C221 instead of out of the C100), but the FSM says BROWN, wire coming from terminal G7 in the C100, spliced into the coolant fan relay system, comes from the C/H FAN fuse and is hot in RUN, goes into the alt connector at the "F" terminal. Ignition controlled.

Another BROWN wire, coming from C100 terminal F8 and running to the volt gauge in the dash, should connect to the "L" terminal in the alt connector. Also ignition controlled.

There is no wire for the "P" terminal.

ALL 4 alternator terminals should show battery power when the ignition is turned on.

:edit: According to a textbook I have, the BROWN wire in terminal L is the primary wire that should be connected to ignition power for the alternator to work. However, the wire in terminal F is a backup for this wire, should something happen, say, the gauge goes bad or the indicator light (if you have one) dies. I would hook both up to separate ignition controlled circuits with fuses just in case something does happen.

Iroc-Dennis

so there must be 2 wire`s comming out of the C100 plug that`s go to the alternator??
so the F must be a 12 v ignition (tan/white)
and the L must be a 12 v ignition (brown)
and S is always hot from starter

but why on some website`s they tell the F is not needed to use just like the P??

and behind the gauge cluster,must that wire also have a 12v (the brown wire)
i got no 12v there,the fuse is okey and the connections are okey to.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

1. Yes, terminals F8 and G7 both supply the alternator, G7 directly and F8 through a splice at the fan relay(s).
2. Yes, but it is brown, coming straight from the C/H FAN fuse in the fuse panel.
3. Yes, but it may be tan/white, and it comes from the dash cluster through the C100.
4. Yes.
5. Don't know. You'd have to ask them as I'm not entirely sure which of the terminals is the one they delete for the one-wire alternators (as I don't have one).
6. No. The brown or tan/white wire coming from the cluster doesn't have full 12V on it. This wire gets its power source from the voltmeter itself, which acts as the indicator bulb, providing 470 ohms of resistance. The voltmeter gets its power through a trace on the printed circuit from the GAGES fuse through a pink/black wire at cluster C1/9. C1 in my book is the one on the bottom of the cluster. However, since your gauge does work, we can assume the pink/black wire is good or you wouldn't have any gauges working AT ALL.

Iroc-Dennis

thanks i will try it today to located that wire`s in the c100 plug.
i make some pictures so you can look with me were i talking about.

do you have msn messenger? that`s talk some easeyer

dennis

Iroc-Dennis

hello maverick,

i have check it today and it is not how you telling it.
the F8 is there and is brown the G7 is not there.
if i remember i have cut a tan/white wire from the Ecm harness that was connected on the altenator and fan relay.
becausse i have do the swap to carb the Ecm is out of the car now and the wire on the pigtail is left over now.

but the next problem is that i have no 12 v with ignition on on the F8 (brown) wire.
what could my problem be with that brown wire?
were is the resistance located? i have read that there must be a wire that has a resistance on the 12 v wire so i don`t blow up the diodes on the alternator.

i have blow up my diodes 5 times last year and still get the same problems.
so could it be that i have a bad resistance?and when the resistance is bad is there no 12v on the wire?

thanks again dennis

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Like I said before, that tan/white wire may come from the ECM side of the harness (like mine). Connect it up to the dash harness and see what happens.
Do you have power coming to the fan relays? If not, check the fuse. What engine control system did the car have before you swapped to carb? Was it the VIN F, H, or 8? Because it seems like the harness was for a VIN S (2.8 V6), if you have no brown wire on the engine side of the C100 at G7. The V8 diagrams all show the brown wire on G7.
The resistance on the brown wire (no resistance on the tan/white) should come from the gauge, assuming everything works. Like I mentioned, the coil in the gauge acts as the filament in the bulb in the indicators cluster, providing resistance to the L terminal.
What you can do is disconnect the C100 and check for power to G7. Since there is no terminal/wire in G7, you'll have to take it apart or crawl under your dash and take the rear cover off to find it. Do the same for F8.
Did you check the back of your cluster yet? Can you get your hands on another cluster to plug in and try to see if it's the gauge that is bad?

And, sorry, no, I don't have MSN. I used to, on another computer, and it's been so long since I used it that I've long since forgotten what my username is.

Iroc-Dennis

original the car is a 5.0 v8 tpi (late model 1988)
i hate the tpi stuf so i only change the tpi to carb and i take the ecm out with the ecm harness.
the c100 harness is still the same as before.
so original i got no wire on section G7 as i said before.

please look at this link: http://www.berlinetta.info/C100.htm
so you can look what i see,the c100 from 87 using the G7 but the 88 c100 don`t use it,just like i have.
and on another link i found this:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/GM_De...ng_diagram.htm

so you can see i don`t need all the three wire`s on the pigtail plug.

a friend of my have lay down a cluster in his barn,so i can try it today.
just what you said the pink/black wire is oke to the voltmeter,but maybe after the voltmeter it is not good,maybe because a bad resistor in de gauge.

oh and the pink/black wire is also not on the C1 or C9 plug
the C1 is empty andthe C9 is another collor! i`ll post some pictures in the next post.

dennis

Iroc-Dennis

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The wire you're looking for at the instrument cluster is in the brown connector, top row, the second from the right (similar to the ALDL's code port). Check for power there, and the third from the right in the bottom row of the gray connector has the alternator to volt gauge wire. Check the resistance there. It may be 470 ohms, but I doubt it because the gauge isn't installed. Seems to me there should be screws in those square things on the back of that cluster, but maybe the clip things are connecting the gauges to the circuit board? I don't know, as I don't have a Camaro and don't have access to one with a gauge cluster similar to yours to find out.

Iroc-Dennis

thanks i will check it tonight.
if i not can`t find what the problem is tan i will make a new ignition wire wit a resistor between it!

do you now how much resistance there must be?

dennis

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

...

If necessary, wire in a simple 194 bulb with socket, say, from a parking light or something, but I know 470 ohm resistors can be bought at RadioShack or the like...

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

those wires look like crap!!!!

I am so glad that I put a new harness in my ride

SanAntonio3

I have a question about the F/P FAN C/H fuse in my 1989 Camaro 305 TBI. I recently swapped the old 305 to a 305 off of a 93 caprice. Once I swapped it and drove it, took note that I had to change the cylinder heads. So I parked it. The car sat, and finally had them changed. Started the car, and it ran perfectly, finally hooked up the stock fan switch that goes on the passenger side head. Turned the car off once I noticed the fan wasnt coming on. Next time I turned the key, FAN FUSE Busts. Checked my grounds behind heads, head to firewall, block to battery, battery to fender...all good. What should i check next?

jchaussee

Older post, but I too cut the wire out of ecm harness. Brown one. Can it just hang out now or does it need to be hooked to something. If so, what do I hook to??