SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I'll probably just end up getting a new one. And pray that that fixes the problem.

TreeFiddy

I'll chime in too - so what was the voltage? A new alt won't work either if both small terminals don't have 12v in run.

Seafarer12

spray and pray auto repair can get costly.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Ah. Of course. My apologies. I dont see a brown wire. There are two wires. One that clips on, and the other is sort of sandwitched on it by a nut, like the battery cabels are to the battery. I assume that is the ground. I am comfused. Am I suposed to measure the voltage between these two wires? Just tell me where to shove the Volt meter and I'll give you guys the reading.

TreeFiddy

I'm a little confused here too - am assuming this is a stock style 10si alternator? There should be the large output terminal connected by a thick cable to batt + 12v.

Then there should be a 2-pin connector with a brown, and a red wire. Red should go straight to batt + 12v (or to the alt output terminal, same thing), and white thru the idiot light / resistance wire to an ign run 12v source.

You've only got 2 wires total, not 3?

Here's the diagram for my 86, wire colours etc may have changed by 92 but the charging setup should basically be the same I would imagine.

Edit: The ground is the alt case itself, bolted to the block. Check the alt-bolt-block interface is clean.

lectric80

iTrader: (1)

Alternators on our vehicles ground through the housing, not through any wire.


Ok this means one of two thing, most likely the first:

1. The small rectangular plug is not attached to the alternator, this energizes the regulator and is required. If it isn't there you aren't going to get any charge out of the alternator. Check around the alternator, but the plug on the alt side should be towards the top of the alternator when it is mounted.
2. The alternator has been converted to single wire output. This can be done but the alternators don't tend to live long. This is usually only done on equipment, but I have seen a few people do it to cars/trucks. If it is this option, the aforementioned plug on the alternator should have a plug in it to cap the opening.

There is normally only a single wire battery connection and a 2 wire plug (sometimes more on newer models) going to the alternator. Whatever the second wire is that is attached to the battery lug, it is not stock. It had to have been added by a previous owner, but you would need to trace it to figure out where it goes. It may be very helpful to take a pic of the alternator as it is right now to help us diagnose the issue.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Alright.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Here are the requested pictures.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

And here are a few more.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

the 2 red wires, the one on the back of the alternator and the one in the connector should have battery power at all times.

the other wire in the connector should have power with the key in the run position.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

The red wires should have the same voltage as the battery. If not then Expect a bad connection or fusible link between there and the battery. They may be going thru the starter so a connection there is a possibility.
The other should be reading 12V+ also with a fully charged battery.
If both are good then I would suspect a bad alternator.
I have had the parts stores tell me starter bad when it was good and alternator good when it was bad.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Alright. Thanks. Let me go get the volt meter out and I'll test the conections.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Ok, so these two read a healthy 12v (car was off).

lectric80

iTrader: (1)

Ok, now does the other wire have voltage when the key is turned on? If not that is where your problem lies, and that is the one that could also be affecting your fans. That one you are going to need someone elses help with if it gives you any trouble.

Just out of curiosity, does the charge light/battery light on the dash come on when you turn the key on? That wire actually needs the resistance of the light bulb in line for everything to function properly, just another idea to check.

Joefuss

I had the same issue, after alot of research and messing around with a multimeter, I just changed every fuse, and got the 14-15V, under load testin from the battery, I beat myself up for a good 2-3 weeks tryin to solve it dureing my spare time, an researching, ^^ The light bulb thing he just mentioned is also something I read about. Mine was good though. If anything I'd try to change out all the fuses. Even the 24v ones They are circular metal lookin.. Hope it does the trick, an doesnt cause u to waist any money considering.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

All the fuzes tested good. Replaced a few of them just for the heck of it. When you say that the key needs to be in the "On" possision, you just mean that the the key needs to be in the posistion where the lights on the dash come on and the fuel pump primes right? The car doesn't actuall need to be ON.

Richboll

"Key on" is that position just before engaging the starter where everything lights up. After starting the car, the key returns to the "on" position.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Alright let me go test that really quick.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

K. I Didn't get a reading.

lectric80

iTrader: (1)

No reading, what about the battery light on the dash? You may have just found your issue.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Battery Light is working I believe. Let me double check.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

You mean the light behind the face of the dash that aluminates the battery guage right?

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

If the alternator is not charging, then he is running off the battery only and eventually the battery will run out of juice. This is where the term Reserve Capacity comes from and how many minutes you can run directly off the battery.

I still think this is a simple alternator swap job. Look in your local phone book, find a local alternator shop and call them and ask them if they can test your alternator properly (like find out how many amps are being put out). Some of these shops are really knowledgeable and really helpful. I started rebuilding alternators because of the advice from one of these shops.

lectric80

iTrader: (1)

No, there should be a red light on the dash that comes on when you turn the key to the on position. It should have a symbol that looks like a battery. If it isn't lighting, then somewhere in that wire is your issue, and it could be as simple as the bulb being burnt out, which will cut power to the wire on the alternator. Without it, the alternator will not charge.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

K. I'll look through all that tomorrow. I didn't see any battery sign come up. I know what your talking about now. If its just the little bulb that would be fantastic.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

my book shows the wire coming from the alternator on terminal "I" going to splice S210 with 1 side branching off and going to the the fan relay terminal D, and the other branch going thru connector C100 and ending at the fan fuse in the fuse box.
the terminal marked "I" on the alternator shows to connect to terminal "F" in the multiple pin alternator connector.
connector C100 shows to be the bulk head connector where the harness goes thru the fire wall into the car.
splice S210 shows to be in the harness under the hood near the bulk head connector C100.


not all cars have the charge or battery light bulb.
some have both a charge light and a voltmeter. in these cases, the wiring to the alternator may vary on how its wired.
if the car had a charge light that energized the alternator, then terminal "L" would be used instead of terminal "I"

TreeFiddy

He already re-charged the battery about 50 posts ago, I believe. Still I am curious, how many minutes of Reserve Capacity does a battery sitting at 8-9 volts have?

Seafarer12

I would check the bulb for the alternator/ battery. It should be lit when the key is in the run position but the engine is off. It looks at the voltage potential between the output of the alternator and the battery. If I am not mistaken it also has a fuse that feeds the circuit. A burned out light will effect the output of the alternator.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I'll check the fuzes, and look for the light bulb. It def. doesn't come on.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

How do I know how much reserve capacity I have when fully Charged?

xxZ28xx

iTrader: (1)

[quote=lectric80;5167103]Regardless of battery, if the alternator was charging the battery would have shown more than 11 volts when running. There are a couple of possible problems, and since you mentioned the PO doing some strange stuff, test the back of the alternator at the battery post on the back. How many volts when the engine is off? How many volts when the engine is running? If it shows 14V running but not when the engine is off, it may be the fusible link on that wire. The fusible link is part of the wire that comes up from the starter(normally) to the back of the alternator. It can grow weak with time, and not pass voltage normally. If this is the problem, you will need to get a length of fusible link that is the same color, cut the old out, and install new. It is not a bad idea to replace the entire wire at this point, since you are going to have to remove it from the starter to replace the link.

Good info! Maybe this is whats wrong with my car, I seem to be having the same problem as he is. Pretty much everything is the same, even the previous owners doing some weird things to it :P

I'm going to try and get some fusible links, hopefully this solves my problem!

lectric80

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=xxZ28xx;5180886]At least on my 83 it should be noted that the main power wire on the back of the alternator does not run to the starter, instead running directly to the battery through a fusible link. I hadn't really paid attention until I got mine started this weekend.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Also, I looked at my Instument panel, and I don't see anywhere where the battery sign would apear. Anyone with a later model Camaro dash know if it is even there?

xxZ28xx

iTrader: (1)

Hey man, if you ever find an answer to your problem please let me know!

I think maybe my battery may be shorting out, but have no idea how to specifically find my problem :/

lectric80

iTrader: (1)

Finding a ton of diagrams, but none show the light on 92. All show, as Denn_shaw said, that the second wire to the alternator is running off the fan fuse, which should be hot in run.

First check the fuse for the fan, and see if you are actually getting voltage there when you go into run. If so, then you will need to trace the wire, which appears to be brown, and find where it is either broke or not connected. That wire has to have an issue, and it will kill your ability to charge if it isn't getting voltage when the key is on. That is the only thing left, and it is likely why your fan isn't working.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

The fan not working and the bettery not being charged are most certainly conected. I'll check that out today. At least its sunny.

Joefuss

Well I had this same problem, mines a 91, An I noticed theres a couple things for you to do, i'll try to do some research again for you, and post it, my axels out atm, but i'll hook up the battery an get a vid posted for you to see the light thats bein discussed, and show you some of the fuses I replaced as well, my dad had a bunch of extra's from his job, so it wasnt a big deal for me to just change them out, an although I only found 1 noticable one blown, It did solve the problem, I have 2 altinators as well, and had both tested an both of them where around 13-15 volts, but easily push 14.something under load.. I never checked the Fuseable link at all when I was messing with mine, I never really heard about that when I was researching it... So that is also something to check into, like I said earlier i'd hate for you to spend a bunch of money on fuses, when that isnt gonna solve the problem. When I was going about it all, I swaped both of the altinators to no sucsess, Mulimetered the battery after switchin them both out, and it would just slowly drain the battery, and die, Even with the key out an everything off, the battery was slowly draining, i'd check it every hour or so, with the mulitmeter after chargeing it, and it'd drop really slowly, but it would get to the point where it wouldnt turn over if i had waited the night. I did do alot of other things though, like i got a new battery, so i knew that wasnt the problem, had 2 altinators an had them tested, Which btw autozone, o rielies n such, when they test ur altinator, its not really a good tester they use sometimes, it depends, sometimes they can test it, an it will be bare minimum an still show up as a passing one), that was something i learned talkin to them.. It just depends on the tester, anyway.... I replaced the starter, so based on those things (the chargeing system) Unless I bought a faulty component, they should have not been the problem, an I about beat myself up researchin testin, an one day just changed all the fuses, tested it after i did, and bam 14V.. I'll try to get some of the things i researched posted though. Give me the night, or so.. I wont leave you hangin, i'll get some kinda useful info put up

xxZ28xx

iTrader: (1)

This is what my car does, I have the key turned off and everything and by morning its dead. Bought brand new batteries, everything. Maybe I should also check into replacing the fuses, the previous owners did not do a good job of taking care of the car.

(sorry skeletor, I'm not trying to steal your post, We just seem to be in the same situation )

l_dis_travlr

Along about post #41, I found "no corrosion", but couldn't tell the
scope or extent of the comment.

I had similar experience. Issue turned out to be VERY corroded
connections at the power junction block, stupidly located in close
proximity to the battery tray, where corrosion naturally occurs.

Make sure that the small battery cable wire, and the alt. charging
wire are making good contact at this point. That's what solved
my issue.

Good luck.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

New alt with life time warranty, had the same problem replaced battery. Two days latter dead. Changed out alt, week later dead. Bought a new not rebuilt fixed!! Make sure you get a life time warranty and keep all receipts. The diods go out in the cheap alts. Lucky to last a year. Funny thing is only 5 bucks more to buy Brand New!!!

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I'm going to check all the fuzes now. Fan fuze in just above the battery to the left if I remember correctly.

Al Hasse

Most certainly is. I'll post you two links to schematics which will show how the alternator (generator in the drawings) is tied to the fan and its fuse. First figure, on the bottom right, shows the coolant fan getting power from the fan relay, which in turn, gets energized from the fan fuse. The fuse line is teed and is routed to the alternator. Second drawing shows the fuse block with the fan fuse and wire running to the alternator (again labeled generator). I had a similar problem a while back which ended up being a bad ignition switch, second drawing shows the fusible links connecting the alternator to the ignition switch.


http://austinthirdgen.org/mkportal/m...ine_wiring.gif

http://austinthirdgen.org/mkportal/m..._continued.gif

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Thanks mate. Fuze checked out alright. I'm going to replace it just to be sure.

90blackrs

Sorry to hijack this thread but, what if i dont have power on the brown plug wire when the car is on?

RJMcEachern

i am having a similar issue, I have had the alternator rebuilt by a trusted licensed auto electronic shop, new interstate battery, i have replaced the connector at the battery terminal on the alternator, verified that all fuses in the fuse panel are functioning, i get 12.56v on the battery itself outside of the car, 12.54v at the battery terminal connection on the alternator, 12v on the hot wire in the alternator connector, 12 volts in the alternator connector with the key on, seems every test passes with one exception, i do not get a battery light on the dash, this is an 87 GTA with 5.7L, i dont have the owners manual to check but the battery insignia above the gas insignia on the dash never lights

My question is
1. where on the dash should this light be with the key in the on position?
2. where is the fuse for the charging system? is it separate from the main fuse panel under the dash?


RJMcEachern

sorry for hijacking this thread, I have been following it as I am having the same exact issue as Skelitor, everything tests ok but the battery light on the dash
thanks

86firebird350

Did you ever figure out what your problem was skelitor? I'm having a similar issue with mine and can't figure out what the problem is.

Stonehenge

iTrader: (3)

subcribed..

Richboll

If you look at the thread you'll see that it was mostly last year. I think he he had an accident with the car and sold it.

86firebird350

Ah. I didn't know that he had gotten in a wreck with it and sold it.

Jorge8421

The alternator, in order to generate voltage, needs to receive 12v from the battery, thru the wiring and harnesses that os connected to the alternator, which has 3 or 4 wires, the red wire has to have 12v or more when using a multimeter, with the black or negative probe touching the negative post of the battery, and the red prob of the multimeter touching the the alternator harness where the terminal with the red wire is, should read 12 or more volts, if not, check for alternator fuses or relays, or faulty harness or wire corrosion or bad ground.