Abird4u2nv1

iTrader: (-1)

I've been looking into a good replacement for my high mile 305 TPI, and I think I've decided on the 350 HO Crate Engine for GMPP rated at 330 hp and 380 ft lbs. I'd be swapping this in my 89 formula and going carb more than likely instead of keeping the TPI. What is everyone's opinion on this motor? Seems to be a pretty good deal for the money. Also, if I stay with the TPI, would I be better off to just buy the long block instead of the deluxe package?

Abird4u2nv1

iTrader: (-1)

Also since I have an 89, my accessories and flywheel and everything I need should transfer over to the 350HO correct?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

No reason to buy the Deluxe if you stay TPI. You'll need that money for the base and all the other things (runners, cam, rockers) you'll need to get back up to 330 HP.

Everything should transfer over to that engine.

scottland

Yes, all your accessories and flywheel should bolt up fine, there is no reason at all to buy the deluxe version, either TPI or carb, you save money buying the long block in the long run. just don't expect 330hp from it running TPI, TPI is going to choke it down quite a bit. im about a week from swapping my 350HO in, so i'll update you then.(with lots of pics )

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

330 hp with a TPI on top of the 350HO motor is VERY possible. The SDPC tpi intake flows enough to feed the stock vortec heads that come with that motor. The rest is all a matter of properly tuning the PROM/ECM.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not according to SDPC's own data.

1987gt

everyone is allways trying to shoot down the tpi man i wouldnt go with a carb if i where you their is no reason why you couldnt get 330hp out of that motor just port the stock base and plenum and get a set of runners and remember this it will allways start up and allways run the same not like a ****ty carb.

scottland

im sorry, i forgot, the carburator is just one the worst inventions ever

a carb setup is easier to install, easier to tune, much cheaper(especially on a vortec headed motor), and it will make more power.

if you were to throw a 350HO on the dyno, dyno once with a properly tuned TPI setup, then dyno it again with say, a RPM air-gap intake, and a 750-800ish cfm carb, it will make more power with a carb.

1987gt

a stock tpi yes but a vortec intake and long tube runners i bet you would make just as much power plus you get more torque with the fuel injection and you wouldnt have all those problems that come with a carb like fires and they are not easy to tune and once you do tune them go up a mountain and watch the carb start acting funny carbs suck compared to fuel injection if you want reliability go fuel injection.

scottland

LOL your too funny.

I don't know about you, but i've never had a carb set fire, or ever have a motor backfire through the intake. I think your problem might be the operator.

as far as tuning goes.

TPI - You have to have a PROM burned by someone, or have a laptop computer and have the knowledge to properly tune a FI system

Carb - 2 screws on the front of the carb.

and as far as altitude goes,

driving up a mountain isn't going to affect the carb tuning much. several thousand feet change in elevation would, because of less O2 in the air, and in that case, you just adjust the air/fuel screw on the carb.

and a carburator can be just about as reliable as fuel injection, although i won't argue with mileage

1987gt

you think im funny lol ok if you say so nut if you think a carb is as reliable as fuel injestion your crazy and i have seen many carbs catch on fire not that that is a big issue but who wants to get out of the car and turn screws lol now thats funny and i have a mass air car i dont need a prom and neither would he for that engine or a lap top.he would only need a prom if its speed density or he goes really radical which that engine isnt even close so laugh at that bro.i will take my tpi over a carb any day.

91B2L

This is a good topic on the 350HO, please everyone, don't get started on the fuel injection is better than carb, both has pros and cons. From the information I've gathered, carb is going to give you more power, but for those like me, who prefer TPI, what TPI set-up equals the flow of a carb? I thinking an ported aftermarket intake, SLP or Accel runners and 24lb. injectors should support 330hp.(along with proper prom tuning).

1987gt

yes you are right we both have a opinion on carbs and tpis i guess they both have benifits and downfalls.anyway i think with a stealth ram and a 52mm throtlle body and 24lb injectors he would easily hit 330 hp.if hes running mass air he doesnt need tuning righ away.also i would love to see the results of this combo i was thinking about that engine myself and i am curious to what kind of numbers it would produce let me know .

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There is no need to think about it. SD already did the thinking, testing, and packaging: http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...=1577&pid=9009

They put in a bigger cam (LT4 Hot Cam, which requires head work), and say this: "Dyno tested with Edelbrock runners, 52mm throttle body and 1 7/8” headers." To get 357 HP @4200 RPM. Oh, those were long-tube headers, and short runners. I assume this was a SD TPI set-up with PROM tuning, but their site doesn't say, and I don't recall from the mag article a little over a year ago what exactly they used (if they even said).

With just a basic 350 w/Vortec heads and their base, they couldn't get to 300 HP.

The 350 HO Deluxe will cost less to get running, make the power out-of-the-box, and most likely deliver reduced gas mileage and throttle response. You will need to figure out torque converter lockup, too.

If I currently had a TPI set-up, was considering the 350 HO, and emissions wasn't an issue, I would go with the TPI set-up, SD convert if necessary, and learn PROM tuning. But, none of the above is true, so...

RWB____s

IMHO, If you dont have a FI setup on the car already, You would be better off spending the money other things that would make much more power than screwing a FI setup on to a engine (ie good cylinder heads and cam combination).
On the other hand if your already have a FI setup on the car stay with it and improve on it. and put a hairdryer er blower on it.
I have yet to here of any FI setup that makes more power than
a good carb setup (I mean enough to justify the outrages cost
of FI)
The ONLY REAL FI setup that I would consider for my own car if a won the Lotto, would be a Kinsler or Hilborn seqential FI
setup. Now thats a real FI setup! Again just honest opinion
Ive had a early 350 ZZZHO that ran long and hard for almost 10 years before it gave up the ghost. I can honestly sat that it died a honorable death kicking *** on a race couse at 6000 rpm. when a valve broke I think that engine is a great engine bang for the buck and a perfect starting point for many mods.
Even TPI that you already have.

Happy Cruising

Abird4u2nv1

iTrader: (-1)

Man it would seem my simple 350 HO post got twisted and turned into a FI vs carb debate

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Your original post posed the question of TPI. You also asked for opinions. The responses reflect that.

The engine is okay, I suppose. I think it has limitations for upgrading that can be expensive. The SDPC TPI version addresses most of those issues.

I've been playing leapfrog with a guy at Bandimere for the last 3 years (a friendly battle, BTW). He has the 350 HO in a '70 Nova topped with an Edelbrock port EFI. The "competition" has been for ET between his car & my '57. We were both mid-15's in '01, slowing been working our times down. He's been playing with PROM tuning, timing, fuel pressure, etc. His car is about 700 lb lighter than mine, and even with 3.55 gears he's always had better 60' than me. He pretty much hit the wall at 14.6 (at 5800' elevation, remember). We both went to Topeka last year, ran in the 13's, but I was a couple of tenths faster there than he was. The last couple of months I blitzed him after going to a double-pumper carb, higher stall torque converter, and cool-air induction (see sig for performance details).

The Deluxe engine package has a 600 CFM vacuum secondary Holley. Yuck. You'd be much better off with a 650 or 750 Holley or Demon double pumper.

The 350 HO has cast pistons, flat-tappet cam, cast crank, 9.0:1 compression, requires special Vortec intake manifold. The heads are standard production stuff. On the other hand, the ZZ4 has hypereutectic piston, roller cam, forged crank, 10:1 compression (aluminum heads allow higher compression), no special intake required, and the heads are higher-quality performance pieces. The additional 25 HP might seem like low benefit/cost, but unlike the base 350 HO, it includes the intake, distributor, balancer & flexplate. Cost is about the same as the HO Deluxe. Add a carb & fuel pressure regulator (which you'd need with either engine w/carb), and you're ready to run. When you look at it that way, the ZZ4 is only a couple hundred dollars & the cost of the carb more than the 350 HO Deluxe for 25 HP more and an overall better engine.

Abird4u2nv1

iTrader: (-1)

Thank for the response

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Personally I prefer fuel injection. I understand it more and I like the way fuel injected vehicles behave.

But you can not make more power than a carb for less money. You can not do it. Do not kid yourself. Pic up a Jegs or summit catalog and tell me I am wrong. FI is not as cheap as a carb. Carbs have certain problems and so does FI.

Seriously if I didn't have emissions testing and visual inspection I would be tempted to go carb and avoid all the FI mess.

Also even a ported TPI system with LTR will not outpower the carb. You need to go a step further with an aftermarket intake and some other things to equal the power of the carb.

The GM 350 HO is a good motor. I am researching things right now to find the most bang for the buck on an engine right now.

scottland

while the ZZ4 has a much stronger bottom end, and is overall a better motor, the L98 alu. heads aren't anywhere near as good as vortec heads period. All they have going for them is a 58cc combustion chamber.

and i still bet that vortec heads will make more power with their 64cc chambers. and keep in mind that the l98 alu. heads were standard production too.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I was refering to casting quality and "upgrade" stuff: Screw-in studs, better valve springs (to handle more lift & RPMs), etc. Cast iron Vortecs, as with other production iron heads, tend to be rougher castings than the aluminum L98 heads are.

Fast Burn heads eclipse them both for quality & performance. But, that's beyond this topic.