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Old 02-11-2004, 10:00 AM   #1
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Help with ZZ572 Project

Hey guy's, any of you know anyone who put one of these in their 3rd gen Camaro or Firebird? I bought this engine from a guy who bought it less than 30 days ago for over 12k. I paid $6,200. + freight. Motor is still in the original crate and has all that is listed below plus a few other items. Any advice on what to do with the backend of my 3rd gen Iroc would be a big help. I ran a best of around 13 with my L98 at about 109mph. Can any of you guesstimate for me what kind of time and speed I should be able to get with this setup?

DESCRIPTION: GM Performance ZZ572 Deluxe, 572cid/620hp
The ZZ572/620 is built around an all-new Gen VI tall deck race block, filled with a forged, 4340 steel, 4.375” stroke crankshaft, shot-peened rods, and forged aluminum pistons. The newly redesigned rectangular port aluminum cylinder heads result in a pump gas friendly 9.6:1 compression ratio. Also included is a .632” lift, hydraulic roller cam shaft, roller rockers, dual valve springs, single-plane intake manifold, and an 850cfm Demon carburetor.
A GM HEI ignition feeds the ZZ572/620 all the electricity it needs to yield 620hp and 650 ft. lbs. of torque! ZZ572 / 620 Technical Information ·HP: 620 @ 5500 RPM ·Torque: 650 Ft. Lbs. @ 4500 RPM Compression Ratio: 9.6:1 ·Bore: 4.560” Stroke: 4.375” ·Block: Bowtie Tall Deck with One-piece rear seal ·Crankshaft: Forged 4340 Steel ·Connecting Rods: Forged 4340 Steel, H-Beam style, Shot peened ·Pistons: Forged aluminum with full floating wrist pin ·Piston Rings: Plasma-moly rings ·Camshaft: Hydraulic roller (.632” / .632” lift) (254 / 264 duration @.050”) Lifters: Hydraulic Roller tappet ·Cylinder Heads: Aluminum Rectangular Port with a 118cc combustion chamber ·Intake Valves: 2.25” Stainless Steel ·Exhaust Valves: 1.88” Stainless Steel ·Valve Springs: Dual spring (1.540” diameter) Spring Retainers: Hardened chromemoly steel ·Rocker Arms: Aluminum Roller Rockers, 1.7:1 ratio ·Push Rods: High Performance (1-piece) ·Intake Manifold: Aluminum Tall Deck single plane ·Carburetor: 850cfm, mechanical secondary ·Windage Tray: All new Screened and Louvered design ·Damper: High RPM torsional damper ·Distributor: GM HEI ·Ignition Timing: 36 degrees total advance ·Spark Plugs: Bosch +4's ·Fuel: 92 Octane
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:43 AM   #2
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um.................that motor won't work for your car......you need to give it to me.


With that motor, as long as you set the tranny, rearend, and chassis up to handle the power and torque, you should be in at least the 11's. That's a lot of power.
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:52 AM   #3
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Hey MCAS7 that's all I need is everyone saying it won't work, it's going to fit or I'll buy a car that it will fit! lol.

I have a pretty beefy 700R4 built up with all the extra plates and such valve body (Transgo Kit) and thats about it for the trans. I have a 10 bolt Posi for the rear which I'm thinking won't hold up to this much power? I saw an add in Chevy-Hiperformance from Currie enterprizes that build custom 9"ers for the 3rd gen's. Have you or anyone heard what the low down is on their stuff?
Although I got a once in a lifetime deal on this motor I had to sell my kids to get it! Ha, just kidding for now anyhow. So I don't have a lot of $ to spend right now. only about 1k or so. Hw can I stretch these dollars to make my ride abe to handle all this power?
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Old 02-11-2004, 12:28 PM   #4
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SFC's anda cage will help...theres over 800 in parts righ there

and youll never break your rear end,...theres to much power to hook it up...as long as u race everyone from a 100MPH roll your good to go

your tranny will break and so will the read end of u use a good tire...

the currie 9 is a hella tough third member, but itll cost over a grand for it alone...

id say you have another 2 grand atleast to get the car ready to handle it....

that tranny isnt strong enough..
id suggest putting in a turbo 400 since im assuming your not gonna need overdrive becasue it probley wont be your daily ride correct?..
so figure atleast 1,500 bucks for one setup with all the rights parts, a convertor and maybe a transbrake hehehe
then youll need a stronger driveshaft i dunno how much a reall good on is, but my buddy is pushin 600 ponies out of his TTA and is using a carbon fiber shaft since he twisted the aluminum one
then the rear will cost close to 1,200 installed..


so lets run this down

SFC's and a cage=say 1,000 installed for both
Built turbo 400 with convertor and transbrake= say 1,500 bucks for that...im sure u could get a core for cheap and save some cash
and that currie 9 will be over 1,000 easy

so in order to really drive it, youll need atleast another 3 grand
but you can drive it now, just uhhhh take it easy lol

and with that stuff..if your not running mid 10's then you need to sell me the motor lol
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:12 PM   #5
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Hey F-Crazy like your writing style! Now I'm thinking how do I get another 3k? From where? From what I already promised the kids to some lady down in Tijauna. lol. I was thinking about how much I could get for the wife, not 3k! ha! Hope she never reads this post! Ouch!

Ok, you made some really good points with the suspension and cage etc. and your right about the 700R4 I was told that it was bullet proof up to 500hp I never bekieved that though. Maybe 350 -400 max before something on the 700 would break. I know the 400 is probally the strongest most durable trans ever made. At least for drag racing. I will have to really plan this out, I got so excited like a little kid at x-mas when I got the motor that I was tempted to put it in last night! lol. I will not be using it as my daily driver anymore. I also have a '98 Z28 and a '95 V6 3800 200 hp Camaro. I have been letting my wife drive the '98 but now that I'm going to sell her I'll have plenty of cars around here to drive so I can take my time and build my ride the right way! I will not rush it I won't buy something I know will cost me 2 or 3 times more because it was not strong enough, I'll buy the parts that I can and save for the rest. So I hope to get a whole bunch of fellow 3rd gener's to keep adding their input so I will have a large choice of options to plan out and implement. I figure I'll have it on the track in 3-4 months. I will have it on the street within 3 weeks though. Once I have the plumbing and electrical all laid out and all.

I know this is long and drawn out and I apologize for that!

Thanks again guys for the input, I shall look forward to hearing everyone's suggestions.

CALIROCZ28
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:42 PM   #6
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Just to add to f-crazy's post, If you want a Currie 9" that will hold up to that motor, it is more like 2 grand. Moser also sells 9" and 12 bolt BOLT IN rearends for our cars. But you also have to think about brake setups for these rearends. That can tack on the dough too. You're going to need a heavy duty torque arm, lower control arms, panhard bar, and you'll probably want to put new springs and shocks in it.
If you do a search on this site for putting a big block in a 3rd gen, there is some massaging of the firewall that needs to be done too.
You are also going to need big block headers specifically for a 3rd gen. Those aren't cheap. You will need to have a custom exhaust system fabbed up.
You got a lot of work ahead of you. But if you take your time and don't rush it, that car could come out pretty damn fast.
In my opinion, the first thing you should do is stiffen up that chassis with SFC's and a roll bar (8 point at least).
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:44 PM   #7
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It's a big block. So it's yerbasic big block swap as far as that goes. However, it might be a tall deck, I can't recall for sure, which does cause problems; minor details like strut tower clearance.

You won't be able to license it in California of course. So since it will be a strip-only car, I'd lighten it as much as possible, cage it, back-half it and tub it, put a 9" or a 12-bolt and a Powerglide in it, and get serious. With that many inches you won't have to turn it very high to make lots of power. 10s would be easy with an appropriately lightened car, and it would be reliable too.

I didn't know you could actually sell kids in Tijuana.... when I lived out there in Carlsbad, seemed like the traffic all went the other way, since they had all they could use down there....
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Old 02-11-2004, 03:14 PM   #8
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RB, they buy those blond hair blue eyed kids to help them make it across the border! lol. My wife and I was actually approached about 15 years ago while visiting TJ and the guy was serious. I told him not right now of course cause she was so new of a baby.lol.

I never even thought ahbout the headers and the what I'm sure will be numerous other little things I'll come across during the project same as I did when I transplanted a Corvette motor in my F-Body. Little items that about drove me crazy but I did enjoy doing it all myself.

I guess the 8pt would stiffen the car up the most is that correct? What does an 8 pt cage cost for a 3rd gen? What type of fab will be needed to the strut towers and the firewall when putting a big block Tall deck in a f-body? I wish I still had my '66 Chevelle SS. OH well This is going to cost me much, much more than I anticipated. The expense being what it may will destroy the timeline I had for the project. I only have a few hours each evening and Sundays to work on it so maybe not even that. I'll have to get another job part time to help with all the expenses.

I think the whole thing will be worth it though. So, forget about me turning around and selling the motor at this time guys.
Roll bars, brakes, Shocks, rearend, fabrication to who knows what and what else?
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Old 02-11-2004, 03:28 PM   #9
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Since it's going to have to be strictly a strip-only car, no chance whatsoever of running it on the street, why don't you research a few of the classes that it might run in, and see what chassis mods are allowed / required? That would be alot wiser than a scattergun approach that you might not be able to use for anything but Sat. night heads-up grudge matches, which would be rather a waste of time for a trailered race car.

As far as cutting the strut towers, I wouldn't touch it without having some kind of bracing up there to replace it. You might end up with something like the legendary problems that people got when they notched them out to put a 351 Cleveland into a pre-Cleveland Mustang; and the whole front end would collapse inward the first time they hit a good bump. If you've never seen that happen, it looks kind of funny, from a safe distance of course... probably not funny if you're driving.

Headers will be $$$$. Don't screw around with cheap stuff, you're working with a considerable amount of exhaust gas trying to get out, you'll need 2" primaries bare minimum. You'd really need that even if it was just a street motor.
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Old 02-11-2004, 03:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by RB83L69
It's a big block. So it's yerbasic big block swap as far as that goes. However, it might be a tall deck, I can't recall for sure, which does cause problems; minor details like strut tower clearance.
Yeah, it's a tall deck. The guys on Horsepower TV put one in a 70's nova. Fit nice, but might be a tight squeeze in a thirdgen. Crazy fun though, if I had the money and extra car I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-11-2004, 04:23 PM   #11
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Well, i dont really see how you need to modify the sturt towers, but sure, maybe you do. AT least i didnt with my 454. I would just say if you want to get it in, you will be needing a better fuel system, a roll cage, rear end, and a 700r4. I feel sorry for ya that you cant drive that down the streets, i would move just for that. Headers are a must on a engine like that, along with a true dual exhuast. Driveshaft will split in 2 like a banana, so you may want to think of a aluminum one or just be easy on her. You will def. need a cowl hood for something, becasue that intake will be saying hi dear at cha. Dont quite know if that radiator will keep your beast cool enough, but if you are just going to race it, you would be fine. Front springs will tighten up your handling alot if you want it, but not a must. That In cap coil HEI will not fit that grand, so i would suggest moving on to a mallory with a msd set up, or your preferance. Have fun, you will like a big block in your car, i know i do.
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Old 02-11-2004, 07:00 PM   #12
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I wouldn't go with a aluminum driveshaft with that monster, i'd go chrome moly.
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Old 02-12-2004, 01:26 AM   #13
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I was even thinking Carbon fiber driveshaft I already have an Aluminum one. If I switch over to a 400 or Power Glide is the drive shaft longer or shorter? I'm really lost right now with choosing the right rear end for it. I will start researching and comparison shopping until I have the best unit for my ride.

It not being able to be street legal really sucks but I've been wanting a trailered race car for as long as I can remember so I figure do it while I can or am able. Not that old early 40's but racing's been in my blood since about 12 like most of us or most car people.

Thanks for all of your inputs so far guys! You all have some really excellant ideas! Very crafty guys here on 3rd gen.

Thanks!
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Old 02-12-2004, 01:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by chev496
Well, i dont really see how you need to modify the sturt towers, but sure, maybe you do. AT least i didnt with my 454. I would just say if you want to get it in, you will be needing a better fuel system, a roll cage, rear end, and a 700r4. I feel sorry for ya that you cant drive that down the streets, i would move just for that. Headers are a must on a engine like that, along with a true dual exhuast. Driveshaft will split in 2 like a banana, so you may want to think of a aluminum one or just be easy on her. You will def. need a cowl hood for something, becasue that intake will be saying hi dear at cha. Dont quite know if that radiator will keep your beast cool enough, but if you are just going to race it, you would be fine. Front springs will tighten up your handling alot if you want it, but not a must. That In cap coil HEI will not fit that grand, so i would suggest moving on to a mallory with a msd set up, or your preferance. Have fun, you will like a big block in your car, i know i do.
Hey Chev496 Where could I move to that would be legal to drive my car on the street? I thought all states these days had emission reuirements that were becoming as bad as California's?. All of my relatives are in Missouri, IL, Indiana etc. I don't have one relative on my side anyhow living in California so this would ad could be my reason for leaving our very over populated great state!
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Old 02-12-2004, 10:15 AM   #15
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i was giving him the prices for the nessesary parts lol...now yall are adding torque arms and contral arms lol....like spending his money ehhh lol...

i didnt even think about a 'glide, i just remember that a 400 wasnt that bad to swap in..

my 1,500 estimate for the rear was for the moser 9'' not the currie,...my bad..tack on another 500 bucks lol

sine there all hangin in your pockets, i guess ill leach a little lol...
youll want to upgrade the ignition and fuel systems..that means fuel lines aswell...i just dont think the stock lines could feed that beeeotch on thier best day...youll also need to figure what type of FP your gonna run..a old style mechanical whichi attaches right to the block (does that motor even have provision for it?)or if you want to run a electric pump...if u want to run electric, then imo the best iidea would be to sump the tank...pretty simple really..

this will probly take a few months to get done but remember, YOU HAVE THE MOST BAD @SS CRATE MOTOR EVER!!!!! so dont cut corners...if you dont think something will last upgrade it..if your not sure, like u said were "knowledgeable"
lol

good luck buddy....im glad you like my writing sytle lol

ohhh yea dude u had my rollin when u were talking about mortgageing your kids and wife hahahahha that was halarious...
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Old 02-12-2004, 11:50 AM   #16
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Come to Texas man, were pretty leniant on those things . Don't pay state tax either .
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Old 02-12-2004, 04:20 PM   #17
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its funn driving around michigan int he summer seein 8 second cars just drivin around like nothing...

theres this one 8 second blown escort..the mustang style lol..
hes got full wiring still hooked and mufflers lol....completly street legal lol...

im mi all u need to be a street car is turn signals, brake lights and a seatbelt lol....there arent any emission tests here and you could run open headers on the streets lol...that was cool seein everyone turn there head when i got next to them hahhaha
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Old 02-12-2004, 04:27 PM   #18
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No problems in IL as long as your not in Chicago or St. Louis wild street cars are always welcome here
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Old 02-12-2004, 04:45 PM   #19
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Yes, michigan is a great state. hey f carzy, you are from southeast michigan? So am i, gimme a holler. Its nice to just throw on a set of loud mufflers and go around driving. Yea, you dont need anything in michigan, i guess they want to keep it that way because this is where a majority of manufactures test there vehicles on the roads. I have seen dune buggys going down the road, and you can ride a 4-wheeler on the side of the road. I drive my snowmobiel on the road when it gets snowy, no cops stoppin me. He he, the great state.
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:44 PM   #20
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CALIROCZ28,

I think you need to assess the entire situation before you spend any more money or tear in to your car. The fact is you have stumbled across a deal on a fabulous engine but have no real plan to make it work in your car. And by the nature of questions you are asking it is apparent that you have little to no experience building cars. As a friend, my recommendation is that you take a few steps back and think things through very thoroughly or you will very much regret it in the future.

Making a drag car our of a thirdgen Camaro with the engine you have is a larger than average project - much larger than what is being portrayed here. The 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird simply isn't up to the task and you will have to build nearly an entirely new car. This can be translated as a whole bunch of $$$$$$$$.

Personally, I recommend one of two things:

(1) Sell the engine and pocket the extra money. This will let you do something with your car that may be more within your budget and ability.

(2) Sell the car and get an old Chevelle / El Camino or something that can handle the engine. These cars can be found with a TH400 transmission, 12 bolt rear, and only need a few suspension mods to handle the power of your engine. Not to mention you can buy exhaust or anything else you need for your big block. These older cars only need a little suspension work and they are pretty much ready to go. It's simple, cheap, and easy! My first hot rod was a '68 El Camino. Perfect to learn on. I can't imagine what it would have been like to take on my Firebird as a first project.
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Old 02-15-2004, 02:12 AM   #21
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This is not my first project car. I have been wrenching on cars since I was about 15 years old, so for the past thirty years I have enjoyed my hobby at building up street racers and restores on just about everything out there, from '55 Chevy's, '66 Nova's, '66 Chevelle's Mudstains, '69 Roadrunners, '70's Cuda's and even VW's to name a few. I've even done a couple of El Caminos but was far from satisfied with them. I never have cared to much for them. I've seen some very nice ones though. I have to disagree with those of you who don't think 3rd gen F-body's can't handle so much power. It will handle it and then some! My plan is to plan! I and several of my coworkers are going to make it a project for this semester and also for the summer semester. It will be streetable or at least legal to be on the road.. It will pass all emissions and safety inspections guaranteed and still run high 8's or low 9's when finished. I work for a school district that has 6 high schools in the district we have probally the best High Performance adult autoshop offered any where. We have a custom welding course that teaches Oxy/acy, Arc, mig, tig and all others types as well. Construction on our Autobody paint shop will be completed by this summer. Sponsered and funded by a nationally known automotive paint company. " A first for our district."

This is where my suspension mods are going to take place. We are going to use my car as a teaching aid for the adult school classes and the only costs will be material. Same for the mechanical and paint stages.

I will be sure to post our progress as it develops.

Keep your tips and comments coming guys.
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Old 02-17-2004, 01:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by CALIROCZ28
I was even thinking Carbon fiber driveshaft I already have an Aluminum one. If I switch over to a 400 or Power Glide is the drive shaft longer or shorter? I'm really lost right now with choosing the right rear end for it. I will start researching and comparison shopping until I have the best unit for my ride.

It not being able to be street legal really sucks but I've been wanting a trailered race car for as long as I can remember so I figure do it while I can or am able. Not that old early 40's but racing's been in my blood since about 12 like most of us or most car people.

Thanks for all of your inputs so far guys! You all have some really excellant ideas! Very crafty guys here on 3rd gen.

Thanks!
Ford 9" 4.55Gears

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Old 02-17-2004, 07:45 PM   #23
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Re: Help with ZZ572 Project

Quote:
Originally posted by CALIROCZ28
Hey guy's, any of you know anyone who put one of these in their 3rd gen Camaro or Firebird? I bought this engine from a guy who bought it less than 30 days ago for over 12k. I paid $6,200. + freight. for me to be anywhere near that obedient to a woman, I'd have to be getting some booty.

He paid 1700$ freight? that engine lists for under 10,300$ I'm starting to wish I was dumb and rich instead of the other way around.
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:27 AM   #24
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I can't remember which mag dynoed that engine, but it actually makes over 700 hp and is WAY underrated! You got a great deal and that sucker is gonna fly!
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:32 AM   #25
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Someone else told me that also. They said a mag like Super Chevy or Chevy-H-Performance did a story on it and the dyno showed 703 hp instead of 620 that is advertised. I'm not certain if it is the same motor that they were talking about but if any of you can find the article I'd love to see what it says.
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:34 AM   #26
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yeap, thats the one i'm talking about.
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Old 02-20-2004, 08:44 PM   #27
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calirockz28, you could always ladderbar the rear and use a racing powerglide and a gearvenders overdrive,that would more then handle that power. and you could still drive on the street every once in a wile. just my .02!
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Old 03-06-2004, 03:03 AM   #28
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If that bad boy is your daily driver, your my hero.:yourock:
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Old 03-14-2004, 10:50 AM   #29
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Progress on my ZZ572

Well guys I started the install on my ZZ572 bad *** motor last Thursday and yesterday Saturday I almost had her stuffed into place. I came across a problem, well several minor problems.

First of all the beast fits in the engine bay so tight that I would have to pull the engine each time the plugs need to be changed.

I will have to do some cutting on the strut towers to allow for better clearence. The stock hood will be out of the question due to the motor sticking up out over the top about 8 inches above where the fenders are.

I removed everything from the engine bay that you all are aware of that it really cramps the looks and space even on a stock 350 or 305.

I opted for a race built 400 trans that should arrive this coming week. Aa Denny's Aluminum driveshaft. Negoitiating the price for a bolton overdrive kit SINCE I AM GOING TO DRIVE IT ON THE STREET. I figure without the overdrive I will probally get 4 mpg city and 8 mpg freeway if I'm lucky. I don't think I'll be driving it to much on the freeway except maybe to the track. That should be fun with the 456 gears in the 9". I think that is what is in it,

Ok don't think I'm a trader or anything but I swapped the rearend out with a Ford 9' with all the provisions for all of my 3rd gen suspension. New adjustible torque arm, panhard rod, trailing arms and weld on frame connectors for added strength. The gang add my welding class and I are building the the 8 pt cage for it next week and a guy my teacher knows is coming out to tub it so I can use some big *** slicks when at the track.

Well I have to get outside and do some more work on it. I'll post pictures later on this month once I get them all sorted and in order of my install. I'll probally post a link of a webpage for all of this stuff later on.

Looking for 8's without any funny gas. Maybe quicker who knows?
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Old 03-15-2004, 04:44 PM   #30
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Sounds like you've been busy and got everything you need to make live behind that brute! Unless you taking out a serious amount of weight dont get too alarmed if your a few seconds away from the 8 sec mark. 10's should be a more real world estimate with the hp it puts out. With my drivetrain and my current weight my new sbc needs to make at least 610hp to get into the 10's. Before you get carried away with gear ratio consider your tire size and get a dyno sheet for this motor from somewhere. Convertor is also going to be figured in for rpm too.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:09 PM   #31
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If I were you, I would cut the bottom right out of the car and put the body on a full tube chassis. Lot's of work and dough, but since you can't license it for the street anyway, you might as well go all the way.
I put a 455 Buick stroked to 496 CI in a '73 Bird and proceded to twist the car into a pretzel (subframe connectors and all). I had the body professionally repaired ($$$), then did it again (this time with an 8 point roll cage). The car, after being sold and reaquired out of a junkyard, is now going to have a full tube chassis.
Great project, but if you get that monster to hook, it will tear the guts out of that body (8 point roll cage and all).
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Old 03-18-2004, 09:59 PM   #32
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If you can get it to 7-11 and back without getting pulled over, you'll be my hero! :hail:
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Old 03-19-2004, 12:18 AM   #33
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Thats funny AIR_ADAM!

It so happens that my 7-11 is only 2 short blocks from my house.
If all else fails I could push it there and back! lol.
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:22 AM   #34
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EMISSIONS? WHAT'S THAT??

Can you spell NO EFI?????

Don't even consider trying to use an oxygen sensor for a fuel injection system on a motor wth that cam. You've got so much overlap from that aggressive cam you're gonna be pumping raw gas out the tail pipe at idle. Don't smoke near the exhaust pipe while it's running!!!! :nono:

Damn, sure wish I was in your shoes. The He-- with Kalifornica, that baby is worth moving for!!!!!!!




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Old 03-19-2004, 11:22 AM
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