Calvin918

Since no one else will listen to me, allow me to share my frustration here.

I've read plenty here that says it is easy to pull the engine and transmission together. I have everything disconnected. The only thing holding the engine+transmission in the car is that it is resting on its motor mounts. Engine through-bolts removed. When I lower the transmission it will angle until it almost hits the floor with the car on jackstands. The engine, of course, angles with it. When I try to pull the engine it starts to lift the car. I suspect that the engine mount brackets won't clear the motor mounts with the tranny attached. I'll be pulling the transmission off to get the engine out. Don't have a transmission jack. Plan on just hossing it around. Anyone know how much that 700R4 is going to weigh?

http://www.cimarronvalley.net/calvin...f/IMG_1680.JPG

If that doesn't work I'm resorting to det cord.

--calvin

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Woa, buddy...

I always pull them together. I leave the engine/tranny bolted together. Remove distributor, remove transmission lines, driveshaft, torque arm.Then remove engine mount bolts. Take the transmission mount loose and then hook the engine crane to the engine. Pull the engine straight up.

With the engine off of the mounts, put a floor jack under the trans and then remove the crossmember. Then drop the tranny down and the whole thing will swing together.

I think you lowered the back end without having the engine off of the mounts in the front first. You hooked yourself!

good luck

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

getting the motor mounts appart is sometimes a little tricky, pry one appart at a time and everything will begine to move. Ive done this a few times,

Calvin918

Have removed the radiator, exhaust, distributor, transmission lines, driveshaft, torque arm, and transmission cross member and engine mount bolts. The only contact between the engine/transmission combo is that it is sitting on the engine mounts.

I see what you're saying about the mount brackets binding when it tilts toward the tranny. I did try jacking up the transmission to get the motor mount brackets even then pulling straight up. The engine didn't budge. Pulled the whole car. I believe you and others pull the combo. I am either engine hoist challenged, bound up on a mount or both.

Calvin918

Aha! The book says I only need to remove the "engine-through" bolt. Done. It now seems 'bound' between the bracket on the engine. You say you pry a bit between the mount and the mount bracket to get it to pop off?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

When you start raising the engine, the car will "follow" it upwards a ways; presently though, the weight of the car will make it fall down off of the motor mounts. Prying on stuff is just a bunch of extra useless work. Don't go there. WORK is bad enough, by itself; but EXTRA USELESS WORK is a hanging offense in some jurisdictions.

Then you'll discover clearly why I say it's easier to leave the trans in, disconnect the motor from it, pull the motor by itself, then pull the trans.

AlkyIROC

There are so many things it could be caught on. Ground wire on the back of the head etc although that will break before it lifts the car. I'd say lift the back of the tranny up as high as it will go then lift the engine off the mounts. Position the hoist so it's lifting around the back half of the engine to compensate for the extra weight of the tranny.

The transmission with torque converter will probably be around 150 pounds.

I always split my tranny and engine before pulling. Although the powerglide is small and light, the tranny and flexplate shields make pulling it a pain. Whenever I pull my engine, I take the nose off the car so the hoist can go in a lot more. Being a race car, I can pull the nose off the car in about 5 minutes.

Klortho

I've always lifted up on the motor, then just grabbed the chain and started shaking the fool out of it and it eventually broke loose from the frame mounts.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

come on sofa, chill. all im saying is that the half of the motor mount bolted to the engine it a tight fit to the part bolted to the subframe, stick a wonderbar, prybar ect between the two and separate them. from what im hearing, this is the problem, and has been the sticking point every time i remove my engine.

Calvin918

That's what I'll do 86TA. Pry the engine mount bracket off the motormount on the driver side where it is more accessible with tension on the hoist, then do the passenger side. I've also moved the hoist to the side of the car and put it on the 1ton setting. Second option, unbolt the transmission and I'll leave the det cord around the motor mounts as a last resort.

Thanks guys,

Calvin

Calvin918

The pry bar suggestion worked.

Placed a small pry bar between the engine mount and the engine mount bracket and it just popped free on each side.

Thanks Guys!


For my next dilema...how am I going to get this engine out of the back of my truck onto the engine stand without the use of the hoist? Hmmm...

Calvin

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

just floor it! or give it a push

good luck trying to pick it up, maybe a ramp, slide th engine to the tailgate and bolt it to the engine stand?

Calvin918

Thanks 86TA for the pry bar suggestion. I think I'll pass on the "floor it" suggestion. It is just a 305 but I'd like to keep it.

I didn't want to try and put the hoist in my little truck with the engine. Thought I would try to slide it on the tailgate and put it on the stand that way as you suggested. May need to pull the rear wheels off the truck and jack it down to get the height correct. I'll keep posting progress at http://www.cimarronvalley.net/calvin/.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

How did you get it into the back of the truck? And why did you put it there?

What are you planning on doing with it while it's out?

urmomshot77

Lol i did that once with an engine in the truck bed and no hoist. The solution here is (hopefully your street is flat), find a driveway that is uphill and back the truck upto the driveway and stop right were the curb would be. You should be able to get your engine stand equal height to your truck bed, because of the slope. You will need about 2 buddies to hold that engine stand after you pull the truck away so it dont roll down the driveway.

Calvin918

I have a shop to work in at my parent's place 40 miles away. I have the car in that shop and go work on it for a few hours on a weekend when I can get a kitchen pass. I put the engine in the back of the truck with an engine hoist recently purchased so that I can bring it home to my garage to work on it conveniently over the winter. Will disassemble and rebuild with new parts; a few at a time. The guy at the local speedshop has really been pressuring me to find a 350 so I'm waffling on this block (a 305). I have lots of questions about gas mileage, compression to octane and dependability. Will look through other threads for these questions in order to decide if I need to hunt a 350 hyd roller down.

Yes, I can go back to the garage (engine still in truck) disassemble the hoist, drag it all back here but where is the engineering challenge in that? I'll try the angled driveway and take the back tires off the truck if need be. Will use a jack to control the pitch.

Pictures here: http://www.cimarronvalley.net/calvin/

-calvin

one wheel peel

heres a idea,call a tow truck and have them hoist it up out of your truck bed,prolly cost bout 30 bucks? thats what i use,but i drive a tow truck too lol

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

In general, my advice is to not do anything to a 305 that can't be transferred over to a 350. I found that my 350 gets as good of mileage as my hopped-up 305 did, which of course isn't as good as the stock 305 got.

Go ahead and work over the heads - 1.94" intake valves, port clean-up, new valve springs & seals, screw-in or pinned rocker studs. Nothing wrong with TPI and cam upgrades. But, if you spend any money on the shortblock like rings, bearings, pistons, you'd be better off finding a 350 shortblock and doing those things to it. You won't have any problems if you keep the compression the same as your stock 305, 9.5:1. That will mean dished pistons if you run your 305 heads (which will probably be better than heads you'd get on a 350 core).

Calvin918

I did plan on rebuilding that 305 and heads. New rings and pistons at least. Was looking at those rotating assembly kits for that though I don't get the compression numbers they're quoting (like 8.6) where it it supposed to be 9.5:1. Was going to wait on seeking advice until I had the heads off and some measurements taken so that I could provide numbers and photos.
I would like to make it a fun car to drive on weekends or on trips. Restore the car to stock with modest upgrades. I like the idea of a perfectly balance engine with hydraulic roller lifters. Want it to be smooth and long lasting. I'll hit you up with questions on the engine build once I tear down and inspect what I have.

I appreciate it.

Calvin

Calvin918

I had a bad feeling about trying to put that block on an engine stand without an engine hoist. I decided that it was a Darwin Award waiting to happen. Drove back to the garage, grabbed the hoist and used it to put it on the stand. The engine was rebuilt just before the car was mothballed. Checking the casting numbers, it looks like they replaced the shortblock but the heads are original 601s. Here is what I came up with:


I'm still waffling about the 350. Reading your posts here tells me that it is a huge performance increase with very little drop in fuel economy. The 350 is also easier to find parts for. Posts also tell me I can use these 601 heads. Will start looking for a 350 block. I want hydraulic roller lifters. Local shop tells me they have a 350 from a 91 truck for $500. Searching for a 350 with hydraulic roller lifters, what should I be looking for? Corvette/Iroc engines 87-92? Did they come on truck engines too?

Thanks,

Calvin

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

If I'm reading the casting # right, that's a stock '85 305 block.

Truck blocks are roller casting, but typically haven't had the roller provisions machined. Passenger car blocks '87-up should be roller lifter, as well as truck '96-up.

Calvin918

Thanks 57. With that information I'll start my hunt for an 87+ 350 after Christmas presents are paid for. I'm beginning not to trust this 305 block anyway. (see below)

Those numbers are difficult for me to read. I did a tracing with paper and pencil to see if I could get more out of it. I thought the 85 Z28 was supposed to have an "LB9" engine but I read: "GM 5.0LG?". The other number "140??201" (must be 14010201) shows as a 1980-84 at http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/sblock.php and as a 1980-85 at http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm.

I'll buy a micrometer in a few days and check the bore size to see what they've done to it.

I believe I did find the (major) problem with this engine. Recall it was rebuilt but never ran right afterwards. Probably a few hundred miles on the rebuild before it was parked for good. One plug fouled constantly. I found a hydraulic lifter that has lost its retaining pin. The lifter was expanded. It probably kept that valve open most of the time.

Drained the oil before flipping it over to pop the oil pan and what did I find? About a quart of coolant along with frothy brown coolant-contaminated oil. I'm racking my brain on how it got in there without a coolant passage being cracked. Head gaskets were not blown. This may be just the excuse I need to upgrade to a 350.

Calvin

kerplunk318

iTrader: (3)

I've never seen anyone pull a motor with the hoist on the side of the car; i always have the cherry picker in front and its very easy. I feel like it would be much harder to do from the side; does anyone else use this method?

Calvin918

It was my first time. A few engine-pulling faux pauxs are to be expected.

I had it up front at first but the jack was pressing in on the front clip. Moved it to the side. Even after dislodging the engine mounts with a prybar it was extremely difficult to pull.....then I disconnected two ground wires, and that CAT A.I.R. tube and it popped out easily.

http://www.cimarronvalley.net/calvin...gine_pull1.jpg

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Whether LG4, L69, or LB9, it would say "GM 5.0L". The "G" (or "6") is a suffix the meaning of which I forget now.

I'd trust mortec, usually pretty reliable.

That wouldn't be good.

Cracks in the lifter valley are pretty common. Could also be at the bottom of the cylinder. Those are major dished pistons, too, not good for performance.

I'd look for a 350.

Calvin918

Thanks 57, I'll take your advice and search for the 350. Right after christmas anyway. I need to get a Big Wheel, Fisher Price Cash Register, Dora the Explorer playset etc etc......first.

If I find no cracks, I'll rebuild this 305 short block too just for the experience/fun and so it won't get junked. Won't put it in my car though.

Calvin

jay_d

Hee Hee.....i run flat tops with my 305 heads......makes good compression