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Old 10-04-2011, 01:02 PM   #1
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how much hp can a na sbc make?

i know theirs lots of threads like this but i was kinda hoping for an end all kinda thread about the sbc. i want a monster.... i want a motor that scares me. i know sounds kinda immature but iv just always wanted a beast. iv had supra's and stangs and lots of camaros and all fast but nothing like ore's car, or maddogs etc. I'm not rich but I'm not hurting to put some money into it either. i currently have a 1980 2pc rear stock bore 350 fresh from machine shop. i have everything to put this motor together with camel hump heads and a 283(i think) cam but thats just how i got it. i know these are not monster motor parts. i have a super charger but i dont want to use it cuz its a big ole 6-71 blower and i dont want it sticking out of my hood.

basically whats your dream 350/383 build?
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:35 PM   #2
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

You want HP N/A that scares you like the post states. I doubt a 350 or 383 will do it. Now maybe a 427 sbc would, seen a few builds that were 650-700hp N/A. Dart Shortblock cost ya around $5500 i think. Another few grand in top end parts, few grand for tranny and rear to support it, few grand for suspension to make it hook. How much did you have to work with again ?
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:49 PM   #3
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Buy a used 950plus HP nascar 358 CI motor.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:55 PM   #4
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Here is a 358 w/SB2 cylinder heads and only 9:5 compression on pump gas....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0jnkp9b8bM
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:25 PM   #5
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

My buddy has a 800 hp 406 sbc, would cost around 20000 to build.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:33 PM   #6
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

and that sb2 cost how much? lol no replacement for displacement :P
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:43 PM   #7
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

sorry guys i was rushed with my first post so didnt go into to much detail. like i mentioned i have a 6-71 blower but i dont want it in my car. i have a guy that wants to trade me an "air research) i think was the name turbo for it which was sounding pretty cool. but i just keep going back and forth with what set up to do. plus a blow through carb is quite expensive. which isnt the problem just seems like an odd spot to drop that kinda $ if that makes sense. so then i started thinking about the baddest 383 i could build and a complete balanced forged rotating assembly can be purchases for about $900 bucks. i know i would be limited with the comel hump heads so some better heads would be needed. so i guess i'm just wanting to get some opinions of home built builds that would give me the wow factor. the green camaro with nitrous was probably around 550hp. but then i read ore's build earlier today and thought ... i wanna go high 9 seconds also lolol can a 383 make 700ish hp with out breaking the bank?

thanks
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:56 PM   #8
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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Originally Posted by LS4GXP
and that sb2 cost how much?
It's the heads that cost the most....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS4GXP
lol no replacement for displacement :P
Boost is the replacement for displacement...
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:12 PM   #9
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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Boost [I
is[/i] the replacement for displacement...
well if boost is what its gonna take then i'll probably go that route. i mean you gotta give respect to these boosted 10 sec ric er cars on the road. it does level the playing field. was just see hoping to see some more options.

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Old 10-04-2011, 04:53 PM   #10
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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well if boost is what its gonna take then i'll probably go that route. i mean you gotta give respect to these boosted 10 sec ric er cars on the road. it does level the playing field. was just see hoping to see some more options....
Real racers got it down to a science, especially the Grand National guys. The mentality of throwing more and more cubic inches at a car to go fast is really a thing of the past, especially when your looking to run a particular number. Of course, more cubic inches will always yield higher horsepower numbers, but unless your constantly looking to run close to 200 miles per hour out on the highway, it really is meaningless because even 4 cylinders can hit single digits w/boost. 15-psi essentially doubles your displacement, so in the V6 Grand National's case, their 231 is synonymous with a 462 at 15-psi, and most turbo buick guys will run upwards of 30-psi at the track. Not to mention, the rate of acceleration in a boosted car is so much greater than that of a naturally aspirated car, it is insane. When you launch at just 8-psi of boost off the line you'll know exactly what I mean....
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:15 PM   #11
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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i know theirs lots of threads like this but i was kinda hoping for an end all kinda thread about the sbc. i want a monster.... i want a motor that scares me. i know sounds kinda immature but iv just always wanted a beast. iv had supra's and stangs and lots of camaros and all fast but nothing like ore's car, or maddogs etc. I'm not rich but I'm not hurting to put some money into it either. i currently have a 1980 2pc rear stock bore 350 fresh from machine shop. i have everything to put this motor together with camel hump heads and a 283(i think) cam but thats just how i got it. i know these are not monster motor parts. i have a super charger but i dont want to use it cuz its a big ole 6-71 blower and i dont want it sticking out of my hood.

basically whats your dream 350/383 build?

what is the application for the vehicle? Is it pure race?
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:33 PM   #12
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Cubic inches is the easiest way to make HP but with any NA engine, the limitations is always with how much air can be pulled through the cylinder heads and past the valves. The engine is a vacuum pump so it needs to pull the air/fuel mixture into the cylinders. A good cam grind with poor heads is just as bat as a bad cam grind with good heads. The cam grind has to open and close the valves at the proper time to get as much air into the cylinders as possible. The head CFM needs to allow as much air into the cylinders as possible while keeping air velocity high enough. Injection makes this easier because the fuel isn't suspended in the incoming air in the manifold but is injected just as the air enters the head.

Estimated Horsepower Based on head CFM -
HP = .2575 x CFM (@ 28" of water) x number of cylinders

That's also providing you can achieve 100% VE. A street engine rarely gets above 90% while a well built race engine could reach 105-110% especially at very high rpms.
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:40 PM   #13
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

you want a badass car, yet a blow through carb is too exspensive?

Theres no build you can do to run 9's that wont break the bank.

I have about 7-8k into my NA 383, cooling, ignition, fuel system and am hoping i hit high 11's. This is not including all the machine shop work that was done.

If you want to go fast, your gonna have too pay
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:51 PM   #14
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

it all boils down to a few things.
1. how much money you have
2. how much you drive it
3. and what little idiosyncrasies you can deal with.
4. go to number 1 again.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:19 PM   #15
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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you want a badass car, yet a blow through carb is too exspensive?

Theres no build you can do to run 9's that wont break the bank.

I have about 7-8k into my NA 383, cooling, ignition, fuel system and am hoping i hit high 11's. This is not including all the machine shop work that was done.

If you want to go fast, your gonna have too pay
ls4 i didnt say that. i said it seems like an odd place to put almost a grand in a motor plus doing a turbo set up. i know this stuff cost money. believe me i put my fair share into cars and iv had a ton for fun cars but I'm 34 and I'm finally wrenching on motor now and loving it... i know late start but I'm having fun. i have 10k into the green car in my sig. i'm not afraid to spend it either but at the same time I'm not an idiot with my $ i like to research and make sure I'm getting what i want out of my spending. like i mentioned i might go forced induction but thought id explore na and see what the pros had to say. i was dead set on doing a 454 build but then i got this 350 build at a steal so now I'm trying to go that route.

i would like this car to be a street car. i don't live any where near a strip and I'm in the country so long open roads with few stops in my driving track. i was thinking on spending around 6k for the motor. i spent 4300 on the motor in the green camaro and that car was FAST i know not compared to some of the cars on here but for me that thing screamed.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:02 PM   #16
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

If you want to use your 350 block, I would start out by researching how much power you can safely make n/a with that block and a 383 stroker kit. There are ton of builds off of this combo so you should find some answers easily. Will have to get some machine work done to beef up block and that will cost some $$.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:24 PM   #17
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

well iv been reading all day and it looks like 800hp is about what your gonna get out of a stock block before you get into breaking issues. over that I'm hearing aftermarket dart block and etc. the block i have is from the machine shop and still standard bore. its a very low mile block and in extremely good condition. i read that the 2pc rear seals are a little stronger then the 1pc.... i don't know if theirs any truth to that but either way i think i could safely make 700hp on this block... now how do i get there? i'm sure a forged bottom end decent heads and a turbo set up would get me around that and that would probably be fit into the 6k range. i can do the rest of the machine work myself that might be needed. might be a stupid question but with the 186 2.02 camel hump heads i have .... ported polished and bowl blended with turbo would that make any kind of serious hp? just asking so dont call me an idiot lol i'm still pretty green when it comes to matching up mods.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:41 PM   #18
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

At $6k I would recommend you go LSx and throw that block away. The pros outweigh the cons on so many different levels. I always worried myself to death about 2 bolt mains...don't have that problem anymore.

Oh, and don't forget that the more power you make the more expensive the fuel system gets also.

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Old 10-04-2011, 07:43 PM   #19
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

I know exactly where you are at. I'm in the process of my first rebuild. I'm shooting for 350-400 hp, but the same questions come up really. The best resource I've seen or heard of is 'How to Build a Max Performance SBC On a Budget' by David Vizard. I love that book! It has everything you need to know. Just a note don't polish the intake side as this doesn't increase the flow and it hurts fuel dispersion. Polish the exhaust side to discourage carbon build-up.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:44 PM   #20
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

If your looking to make the most power on a budget, an LS is the way to go. You can buy a 5.3 or 6.0 out of a truck for under a grand. Do a little research on junkyard LS builds and you will see this is this best way to go. Hot Rod recently took a junkyard 4.8 they thought was a 5.3, ran 22lbs of boost on it and made over 1,000 HP.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:48 PM   #21
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Nope-you stock/mod'ed heads for my two cents isn't going to make it.

Formula:intake runner size is C.I. X .5 = cc intake runner size.A 383 would be 195 cc.No stock head could be opened up to that size.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:34 PM   #22
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

If you want good ideas read the poppular hotrodding Engine masters challenge build ups.. Those boys get it done..
BES built a mean street engine a few years ago.. flat tappet cam even, I like how he calls a 230cc runner port on the heads intake "small" on a 403ci sbc..

This is the motor I look to to build mine. I went with more cubes, cam(solid roller) and compression.. and a head thats a bit bigger.. wonder where I am 4 power???
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ock/index.html
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:43 PM   #23
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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If you want good ideas read the poppular hotrodding Engine masters challenge build ups.. Those boys get it done..
BES built a mean street engine a few years ago.. flat tappet cam even, I like how he calls a 230cc runner port on the heads intake "small" on a 403ci sbc..

This is the motor I look to to build mine. I went with more cubes, cam(solid roller) and compression.. and a head thats a bit bigger.. wonder where I am 4 power???
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ock/index.html
The real street in me forces me to say the following.Any magazine article you absolutely need to know how to read between the lines and fully understand the main focus is to sell products for paid advertisers.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:52 AM   #24
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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At $6k I would recommend you go LSx and throw that block away. The pros outweigh the cons on so many different levels. I always worried myself to death about 2 bolt mains...don't have that problem anymore.

Oh, and don't forget that the more power you make the more expensive the fuel system gets also.
ya i'v been told that a few times... i know this probably sounds crazy but i afraid to tackle fuel injection and a car computer. i know some say its easier but that a lot to try and understand being a newbie when it comes to wrenching and trouble shooting. if i could get my hands on a complete car that i could just drop the drive train out and swap then maybe but piecing one together.. above my skill level right now.

1gary, ya i didnt think those heads would do it. from what i'v read on them there good to about 400hp and thats it. i'll probably just sell them and go from something newer. *sigh* what to do what to do
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:02 AM   #25
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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The real street in me forces me to say the following.Any magazine article you absolutely need to know how to read between the lines and fully understand the main focus is to sell products for paid advertisers.
Very true. The engine combos are forsale from most of the bigger named shops that build them. In the end, everything is money driven..
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:12 AM   #26
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

ya i'm really thinking turbo now. forged bottom end, good cam, sell those camel back heads and get something newer and throw on a turbo. it seems like the cheapest and easiest way to get big hp #'s and make the car fast. maybe i'll try and do my own blow through carb.. cud be fun to learn.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:01 PM   #27
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Actually, with a turbo, you don't need fancy expensive heads. With the turbo pushing air into the cylinders, the head CFM isn't a big factor for performance. Crappy OEM heads work well with a turbo. Just get some good valves to handle the heat and a turbo cam grind.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:09 PM   #28
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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Actually, with a turbo, you don't need fancy expensive heads. With the turbo pushing air into the cylinders, the head CFM isn't a big factor for performance. Crappy OEM heads work well with a turbo. Just get some good valves to handle the heat and a turbo cam grind.
So your saying a set of heads that limit the volume a turbo is capable of isn't a factor??.I mean I just asking here.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:18 AM   #29
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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How much did you have to work with again ?
http://www.theengineshop.com/product...4---600hp.html
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:08 AM   #30
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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For that much or just alittle more you could buy a 502 Ram-jet
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:14 AM   #31
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Just buy my 383 i just built, pan to intake, no distributor, no carb Less then 300 miles
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:26 AM   #32
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

how much? i actually got some more parts last night. summit steel crank, 1.5 roller rockers, 750 carb, and an air research 77mm reconditioned turbo. so i guess i'm doing turbo lol. i still need a better set of heads, forged rods and pistons, and send my carb out to have it made blow through. other then that i think i'm almost ready to start a build thread. i would love to see 600hp + as an end result but i have to do some more reading before i purchase the rest.

thanks
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:45 PM   #33
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

You can run a LS with a carb. Edelbrock and GM performance sell carb. intakes. The only other thing you will need is MSD's ignition that will fire the coils. You will make very good power with that turbo on a 5.3 or 6.0 with a carb.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:33 PM   #34
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

If you did your homework right, you could make 600 hp n/a on a 383 sbc....just gotta turn it abit and run a great head.

600 hp on a turbo motor, you probably can squeeze that thru a 355-383 with your current heads with a good valve job, maybe some bowl cleanup work and a good bit of boost. If you dont have good head flow, you will need more boost/more cam. I am a fan of little boost as possible so go larger on the heads/cam
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:58 PM   #35
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

thanks ore. ya i'v been reading like crazy the last couple days. i picked up a turbo last night along with a summit steel crank and some other performance stuff. looks like i'm going the turbo route. i'll be starting a build pretty soon. i think i'm going to use those camel hump heads and see what they can do. i almost bought a pair rhs heads today but after talking to a few people... i think if i port match polish and bowl blend those heads i might be able to do it. and i can put that money else where. i have everything for the build minus the forged rods and pistons. i bid on a victor jr. single plane intake earlier and i'll still have to have my carb sent out for blow through but i'm getting there i checked into the control arm lowering brackets you mentioned in another thread i had going about getting some traction in my green camaro and i think i'm going to focus a little more on the suspension with this black camaro as well. anyway thanks for chiming.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:18 PM   #36
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

HAve the heads rebuilt with good valves, good springs, and any port work that you can afford and they should work enough for 600hp with boost.

Being iron head, watch the compression. 9 to 1 with aluminum works great, but with iron you may want to get down near 8.0-8.5 to 1. Thats alot harder to do with a 383 piston if those heads are 64cc chamber. If 74-76 then its alot easier. you may just beable to do a 355 and just turn up the boost.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:20 AM   #37
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

the camels are 186 heads. i plan on port,polish, bowl blend and chamber polish. they have a fresh valve job and valves but factory springs so i'll upgrade those once i get to the assembly part of all this. i still need to round up the remaining parts. i'm hoping with in a couple months to have everything so this can be a short down time for the swap. any body know a little more about this turbo? had one guy on hot rodders tell me it was not a good turbo for a 350. it says a/r .60 research t04 on it. the exhaust side doesnt have anything but the inlet port(spot that bolts to the manifold has two openings and not one.... if that makes sense.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:39 AM   #38
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Quote:
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For that much or just a little more you could buy a 502 Ram-jet
And carry the extra weight of a BBC on the front end
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:46 AM   #39
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

ya i actually have a guy who wants to trade me his 454 decently built for my set up but i think i'll just stick with what i have so far. my parts accumulation is turning out to be not to shabby. i'm chompin at the bit to start a build thread but i really want to wait till i have everything.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:49 AM   #40
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

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it says a/r .60 research t04 on it.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob.../acronyms.html
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:57 AM   #41
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

vetto thanks, how do you guys find all this info lol i search and i come up with crazy stuff that has nothing to do with what i'm searching for lol. ok so that site gave me some great terminology how about performance for a standard bore sbc. i keep reading about sizing a turbo to the motor.. will i be ok with this turbo. sorry if this is a dumb q.... i'm learning
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:24 AM   #42
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Take the compressor cover off and measure the compressor wheel diameter, at the inducer and exducer (shorter end and taller end).

You can do the same thing for the turbine wheel, take the exhaust housing off.

Looking at the picture, the rocker arm makes this turbo look alittle small. Looks like a 3" inlet, like a t3/t4 hybrid which is usually a 50mm compressor or so. Good for twins but alittle small for a single.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:33 AM   #43
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ View Post
Take the compressor cover off and measure the compressor wheel diameter, at the inducer and exducer (shorter end and taller end).

You can do the same thing for the turbine wheel, take the exhaust housing off.

Looking at the picture, the rocker arm makes this turbo look alittle small. Looks like a 3" inlet, like a t3/t4 hybrid which is usually a 50mm compressor or so. Good for twins but alittle small for a single.
ouch well will it still boost my motor? can i hook this all up and just upgrade later? i was surprised how cheap you can get turbos for so upgrading i no biggy but if i can get started with this one since i have it that would be a bonus.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:17 PM   #44
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

blown 454 lsx......now that would be a MONSTER
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:26 PM   #45
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

cheap doesnt always = good, especially with turbos.

If its tiny, then it may be limited to 400 hp or so. That will actually restrict a 383 if used as a single turbo! You will need to get another one and run twins to do anything
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:47 AM   #46
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

well that same turbo goes for about $250 on ebay so i think i'll go ahead and get another one.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:25 PM   #47
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Re: how much hp can a na sbc make?

cubic hp = cubic dollars :P
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