dereklicon

Hey guys, just to give a quick run down on what we had to do, and how simple and easy it is to do this swap for those interested in MY results. We did a 97 Vortec 350 swap to my buddies 86 TPI Z28 automatic--- and the difference is NIGHT AND DAY. I wouldnt have been able to do this as effectively without all the great info on this wonderful website.

I was actually very, very surprised with how simple this was and even more impressed with the performance to boot.

I used to own a 89 Formula 350, a 88 Fox body 5 spd with e303 cam, gears, MSD, and some other things and this vortec swap trumps them all. Its obscene. It actually feels alot stronger than some LT1 vettes I have driven (auto).

This thing pulls HARD from 2500-5500 without skipping a beat and just drives like another day at the office right after romping on it. No fluctuating RPMs, engine idles without moving whatsoever, no hiccups, and hes even got worn out motor mounts.

About the original setup. He has owned this car since he was 16, so its been 10 years Now. We have the exact same birthday, I can remember when he first bought the car. This is the car that got me into third gens. He bought it and it was a mexicanized-jerry rigged 305 TPI car. It had some serious issues throughout its life though and up until right before the swap had no major issues for 10 years. However its also been kind of a slug and to be honest my current daily dog 92 RS 5spd TBI is a much quicker car... or was, and thats pretty bad. I think the fact that its a 5spd is what made the difference. Anyway, now to the good stuff.


We put on a edelbrock 600, a performer RPM style intake, slapped a MSD HEI coil on there with a mechanical advance distributor, put in new R45T plugs , did all new seals on the trans and engine. Then we decided to used the stock TPI pump---- installed a fuel pressure regulator (aeromotive) and gauge set to 5.5 PSI, adjusted the carb, TV cable line pressure, put on hooker headers, custom y pipe with no cats and 80 series catback.

The 700r4 is definitely holding it back in OD but you can really feel the absolute power and tq if you shift the 1-2-D manually. Its rediculous. It pulls just like a stock LS1 4th gen, and I have driven plenty. I couldnt believe it. Maybe the LS1 has the edge on top end and it is nothing to write home about, but the midrange torque of the vortec is definitely more powerful than any stock LS1. It just gets animalistic when youre in 1-2 and floor it at 2500 RPM.

This is all with stock heads and stock L31 cam to boot. We didnt have time to do anything else to it. It took us 3 hours to pull the engine and trans out together from the top, and a month to finish it. We only took so long to finish it because I had to plan out how to mount the brackets and where and how to get the cables and such. Anyway videos soon to come. I have some pics, though.

Thanks again TGO!!

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Nice job!! Make sure you have the correct geometry linkage for that 700r4 and edelbrock carb.. You can get a kit that will bolt right to the carb, correcting how it pulls on the kickdown cable. With out it you can hurt the tran..

Again, great build!! smokie burnout time!!

dereklicon

Yeah we got the geometry corrector.


True story, he had never had the tranny adjusted properly for 10 years when I got to it I thought it was too late, it used to slam into gear and shift all funky - but a simple TV adjustment fixed it. I always heard stories of them burning up but Ive never had a 700r4 burn up on me before. Either these trannys are hardy or I just got lucky through the years.

However, it is a 30 yr old tranny and WOT downshift is like at 3500 when it should be at 4000, and it upshifts at like 4200-4500 before its peak power at 5500.

Im pretty sure thats just how they are stock though since TPI 'tops out' at 4500.

Thats why we've been kind of shifting it manually when were having fun with it. It still drives OK in OD just definitely holding it back, in 1-2 its a complete monster. I am convinced with the carb setup the vortec stock makes a solid 280 at the wheels.

It feels stronger than my moms 06 mustang GT auto for sure.

We spent a little much on the engine but it had a 90 day warranty which sold me. 900$ for the engine. Carb was 100$, intake was 100$, distributor was 15$, wires, plugs, seals, gaskets, fluids, brackets, corrector, cables, exhaust, etc... Everything cost about 1500$ give or take. Not bad more a really nice swap.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Did you put R45TS plugs into vortec heads?

If so you stiill have a lot more power left in that engine. The vortec heads has deeper/longer threaded spark plug holes and needs a longer reach spark plug. The R45TS plugs will not come to the end of the hole.

IIRC the R45TS has a 0.332" reach, The vortec heads needs a 0.460" reach plug. That's a tad over 1/8" diff

dereklicon

I dont remember but I think they are either the R45T or the R44LTS. It was like a month and a half ago when we finished it so I dont remember. It has alot of power all the way up 5000+ but ill tell him to check to be safe.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Yeah check those plugs for sure. I have seen that happen MANY times with vortec heads.

The right AC delco plugs will be the LTS ones, like the R44LTS..

BTW... Good job on that install. Very clean install, looks good man. Those vortec 350's aint nothing to laugh at. Strong engines for sure

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Just imagine what it would have been like if you went with a stealth ram!!!

dereklicon

we looked into the stealth ram.

The ECM we were running was a 165, and the cost of the stealth ram did not justify the gains vs a good carb setup. However the HSR is nice and probably alot better on gas especially with the stock L31 cam. Also, around here dyno tunes are about 500$ so there another expense we did not really need.

The motor was 900$, the carb was 100$ and the intake was about 140$ new.

The HSR would have been at least 2-3 times more expensive when all is said and done... and he was really frustrated with the tuning aspect and so was I. I tried getting into tuning the PROM, I got WinALDL, and even bought the cable and laptop. I couldnt ever get the prgram to run right, Ever. So I said screw it well go for a carb.

I cant see the HSR being significantly better across the powerband over a well tuned carb, although there is NO DOUBT fuel atomization and MPG would have been better with the batch-fire EFI system. But, time is money! And he needed the car done ASAP. We got it done in a months time with heavy work schedules and hours off that dont match.

I will try to get some videos of it done today for you guys, and try to convince him of doing a race video against my TBI turd lol. basically showcasing the sweetness of even a stock carbed Vortec. His next plans are a t56,. 3.73s, and then a LT4 hotcam and Air Gap intake. should net about 360 HP to the wheels or so maybe more with that setup.

RamIt

Nice job.

84z96L31vortec

Flexplate prob 96 L31 5.7L vortec to 84 camaro
I'm in the process of installing a L31 5.7L engine bored to 355 with forged pistons, vortec heads, roller cam, holly 425 cfm carb, originally from a fuel injected 1996 Tahoe into my stock 1984 camaro and I've got some questions. I've got the 305 engine and 700R auto trans out of the camaro. The guy i bought the L31 engine from said that I needed to use a 1989 camaro externally weighted flexplate to mate the new L31 engine with my R700 trans and that the weighted side of the flexplate should go toward the trans. I've done that but there's a problem with the torque convertor (TC) not lining up with the flexplate. it seems that the TC lines up with the first bolt hole in the flexplate but about a quarter inch away. Then when I turn the TC by hand the TC binds up so I can't get to the next bolt. the first couple of many questions is whether the 89 camaro flexplate will work withe the L31 and how should it be installed? weight toward engine or trans? Thanks Bob

dereklicon

We used the original flywheel from the 86. Idk if the older ones were rhe same, idk why not. As far as the orientation, we bolted it to the new motor right away so I dont remember which way but if you look at the old bolt holes you should be able to look at the old flywheel carefully and look to see which way it was mounted by the dirt/rust markings on the mating parts of the flywheel.

The L31 cam is hyd. Roller from the factory....

And lastly, we had the trans standing on its tailshaft when it was out of the car and worked the TC back and forth until it went all the way on the trans, theres like 3 audible clicks.

84z96L31vortec

derek, so your orig 86 flywheel was not weighted? and you bolted it to the L31 engine without prob and you have no vibration? i was told that my 96 L31 vortec needs a weighted flyhwheel otherwise it will vibrate. shake etc? thanks bob

84z96L31vortec

FYI..... The answers are
- the 1989 camaro 5.7 FI weighted flexplate fits the 1996 tahoe 5.7 FI vortec engine.

- the 1989 camaro 5.7 FI weighted flexplate is installed with the weight toward the engine and raised indentations toward the torque convertor.

This info was provided by my local Chevy dealer parts dept.

novaderrik

86 and newer flexplates are different than the 55-85 flexplates thanks to the change to the one piece rear main seal. this meant that they had to get rid of the counterweight on the rear of the crank, so they put it on the flexplate and changed the mounting bolt pattern to idiot proof it..

gallaire

Hay there im doins same swap this winter how did u hook up electic fans did u only use fuel prusure regalator wat distibuter u use what about lincage for carb where did u get that where u fins ur carb and intake for so cheap thanks in advance

dereklicon

I hooked up the fan by using a "hot in run" terminal in the fuse block... Just route the fan wire nice and clean through the firewall with a male terminal connector at the end and plug it into where the fuse would go... There are a bunch of empty spaces usually in the fuse block available.

We had to buy a used HEI GM stock style distributor for 20$. Came off an old el camino.

The fuel pressure regulator is an aeromotive. Its called a bypass regulator. We are using the stock tpi electric fuel pump. We wired it to a 12v switch. There are two lines that came on the car on the drivers side that made the regulator install easy. Just had to buy some fittings and hoses.

The linkage is a holley carb type we just had to grind off a tab so it fit on the edelbrock. We also used the necessary geometry corrector for the trans hookup. We just used an aftermarket throttle cable and used some big washers to mount it to the firewall.

We bought the intake off ebay for 150$ and the carb from a friend used for 100$. Try Craigslist

Car is still running fantastic and he is getting about the same mpgs as before. He couldn't be happier. It hasnt had one hiccup for two months now as his daily and he has to drive pretty far daily.

Liveaction

What would be the cheapest way of putting a vortec in a 85 camaro

1986BANDIT

1)buy a clean,low mileage l31 vortec engine(or gmpp vortec crate engine)
2)buy a vortec specific intake manifold and carburator
3)buy an old,simple,vacuum advance, coil in cap hei(make sure you use a melonized gear on it)or buy a new version.
4)buy a flywheel/flexplate for a 1987 one piece rear main seal block .
5)buy or reuse all the front mounted accessories from a 1987 and newer camaro/firebird.INSTALL AND ENJOY

SKIDOG74

Looking at swapping out a 1996 LT 1 Corvette engine/transmission/differentials/brains with a 1991 305 Convertible RS Camaro engine/transmission/differentials/brains. Also add cross members cause it is a convertible. I am looking at buying this 1996 LT 1 Corvette for $5K. Worth it? only seems like drivers side body damage. Thank you in advance.

maroe624

Dam I was gonna swap out my 5.0 TBI and install an old L98 with the TPI SD setup. Bought most of the parts but dam now reading this I'm gonna definitely scrap those plans and get me a L31 and go carbed. Seems pretty straight forward and way more power compared to the L98. So basically all I would need is, the motor itself, a vortec manifold, vaccuum advance dizzy, the geometry corrector for my 700r4, a fuel pressure regulator and a good carb. ? If you would be so kind bro and share the list and part nos of what you got for your setup. Thanks. Gonna be selling my tpi stuff now lol

maroe624

Dam I was gonna swap out my 5.0 TBI and install an old L98 with the TPI SD setup. Bought most of the parts but dam now reading this I'm gonna definitely scrap those plans and get me a L31 and go carbed. Seems pretty straight forward and way more power compared to the L98. So basically all I would need is, the motor itself, a vortec manifold, vaccuum advance dizzy, the geometry corrector for my 700r4, a fuel pressure regulator and a good carb. ? Can I use the flywheels off my 92 tbi motor? O If you would be so kind bro and share the list and part nos of what you got for your setup. Thanks. Gonna be selling my tpi stuff now lol

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

"1986 BANDIT" and others who know.................if I replace the LB9 305 TPI engine in my 1989 IROC Z (automatic) with a GM Performance L31B

Will all my rotating accessories / brackets bolt on to the L31B with NO modification ? Will I have to change from SAE / Metric (or visa versa) bolts? IF so, can I order them from Chev (HOW? , IE what year model vehicle would the parts guy look up, to get the bolts)

I've read I will need a "Vortec style" LOWER Manifold. HOW do I get one? IE I couldn't tell by looking at it. Does it has a cast in part number? Will my upper runners and plenum work witht he Vortec lower?

Will my EGR bolt to the Vortec lower manifold?

I believe I can use my Flex Plate and Harmonic Balancer (HB) (I assume my LB9 has a HB).

Can I use my exhaust manifolds?

Any other issues? I surmise I will need 22 pound injectors , a "350 PROM and Knock sensor" HOW where do I order those?

IF I do this I must maintain all SMOG equipment, I realize I'll be leaving HP on the table, but a simple install is all I (might ) have the patience for. Any idea if it will run clean enough pass SMOG?

I also want something as drive-able as a factory car. IE I could lend the car to "Grandma" without having to "train" her to operate it.

Thank you in advance.

Any idea which one, below, suits my needs?


https://www.summitracing.com/search?...d=nal-12568758


https://www.summitracing.com/search?...d=nal-12530283


https://radleygmwholesale.webstorepl...1/301567296304

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

Being that you are in CA, I understand that the visual inspection is pretty tough and you have to be very careful. The SoCal TPI guys have a lot of experience with this and could provide more insight. As to the rest of you questions.

Accessories will bolt up. Not sure on the SAE vs. Metric, but shouldn't be a big deal if you need to source new bolts. The new fully dressed GM Performance crate motors use the same aluminum serpentine accessory brackets. I believe you may have to drill and tap one hole in one of the Vortec heads for the accessory bracket, but the newer Vortec heads may now have that hole.

You will need a Vortec lower TPI base. The only company that still makes them is Scoggin Dickey Chevrolet. The stock runners, plenum, fuel rails, etc. all bolt up.

Original flex plate and harmonic balancer will work. You will need to swap out the L31 timing cover.

The driver side exhaust manifold will work. The passenger side manifold will only work if you leave out the last bolt (closest to the firewall). The Vortec heads don't have the extra bolt hole that the earlier small block heads have. Some have left this bolt out and not had any leaks. There is also an adapter plate available online, but no idea how well it works. Most people doing this swap seem to use headers anyway.

You might be able to get away with the stock 19lb injectors, but 22lb and a PROM reprogram would be better. SouthBay Fuel Injectors is a TGO sponsor and has stock replacement Bosch injectors. Not sure in the PROM chip, but there are companies that will burn them for you and possibly a member here may be able to burn one for you for a small fee.

EGR is going to be the biggest headache. The Vortech heads don't have internal exhaust gas crossover, so in order to keep the EGR functional, you would need the external EGR tube (connects the passenger exhaust manifold to the intake manifold) from the TPI Corvettes. They have been discontinued from GM for quite a while, but they pop up on Ebay from time to time. The Scoggin Dickey Vortec TPI base has provisions for the external EGR pipe, but then you need to fabricate a connection to your #8 header tube. This will keep the EGR functional, however I'm not sure that it will pass the CA emissions visual inspection. Alternatively, you could not do the external EGR pipe, leave the EGR valve/solenoid/vacuum lines in place so it looks stock and have the EGR function removed from the PROM chip so you don't get a check engine light. It will pass visual inspection, but I don't know what CA does for a tailpipe sniff test and not sure if it will stay under the NOX limit.

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

"TransamGTA350" Thank you very much for the information. The EGR is the sticking point and project is on hold, for now.

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

I have first hand experience with this.

"This will keep the EGR functional, however I'm not sure that it will pass the CA emissions visual inspection. Alternatively, you could not do the external EGR pipe, leave the EGR valve/solenoid/vacuum lines in place so it looks stock and have the EGR function removed from the PROM chip so you don't get a check engine light. It will pass visual inspection, but I don't know what CA does for a tailpipe sniff test and not sure if it will stay under the NOX limit."

You will probably not pass the sniff test without the EGR enabled. I tried with mine blocked and it failed. I tried with it enabled and it passed perfectly, so they are able to diagnose it.

That being said, the visual may be easy to pass. If I were you, I would setup a functioning EGR but also leave the TPI EGR valve in place (with vac hoses, wiring and stuff). Inspectors only look to make sure something is where it should be, they do not look for subtle extras like an external EGR hookup. My bet would be that I would pass visual and sniffer doing it this way.

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

Someone on TGO used this, flexible metal gas supply tubing to supply egr. They burned the paint off, first, to for a more OE appearance. It is similar to the OE flex pipe, used on my 86 TPI 350 Corvette (Now sold)

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I keep thinking the EGR line from a 3.1L or 2.8 would do the job. I was thinking hmm, what did I do with that stupid thing? Then thought to myself, we'll let's just check the photo log... Yep, it's right there on top of that bucket of 3.1 garbage I hauled off as scrap. LOL Oh well.

maroe624

Hey did you use the L31 balancer and timing cover ? If so how did you get the serpentine belt pulleys to align if the balancer for the L31 is alot thinner??? I was told I could use the L31 balancer and timing cover and just plug the crank sensor?

1986BANDIT

a 96 lt1 for 5 grand? i know you get a vette too but,idk maybe??? if you fix then flip the vette then buy a built vortec or ls and t56 trans its worth it.


BUT if its a low mile EXCELLENT running lt1 and a t56 and you can flip the vette with your old engine thrown in to recoup some of the cost,it might be worth it as well.
lt1's can make a metric **** ton of power and the torque curve is incredible.if you can put a vette irs ,wiring,ecm and the brakes in your third gen it
would be nothing short of awesome but a lot of work too!!!