customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Hey guys, been a while as Ive had a ton of other things going on, got married, bought a house, doing the renovation by myself lol, bought a new truck etc. So the firebird is starting to get more attention recently. Im in the process of pulling the motor and trans for some more mods and decided to swap in a new moly race craft Kmember which required me fabbing custom motor mounts and some other things which was expected, But the new clearances are AMAZING!!! I'm also in the process of swapping in a full 85-90 TA GFX fit/combined with camaro door GFX so that means I now get a mounting point for new HID FOG lights in the TA bumper… So began my quest for unprecedented light output.

Anyways as you all probably know I had a thread where I did a pop up delete on my 87 formula 350 (which as a 521"BBF now and 2004R trans) and you guys thought it was pretty good. I regret to inform you that Im going back to pop up headlights, not due to the pop up deletes not working right (they worked fine till I pulled them) but I wanted to go a different route with MUCH MORE light output. Original deletes had H1 HID bixenon projectors with 55w 8K HIDs and cheap tiny projector fog lights with 6K 35w HIDs. The light out put over stock was astonishing. But I got tired of the look of the cover lenses and no room to stuff more projectors under it. Since the bumper cut off a small portion of the bottom of the beam (projector had to be mounted low to clear hood line).

So to get more room I'm back to popups. I basically got 4 H1 bixenon cheapo projectors and built a steel bracket that mounts the projectors into the modified firebird headlight bucket. The projectors are not really adjustable But can be if take off by using shims etc. The up and down adjustment will be with the adjustment of the actual headlight motor stop (how much the headlight pops up)… left and right should not be an issue as they are pointed out in the same direction as stock or straight ahead. Each headlight gets 2 projectors, outer projectors run a 8K bulb and a 55W HID kit, inner projectors get a 6K and 35w HID kit. Both sets of projectors get a dedicated bixenon HID harness controller for stock operation of low and high beams. The Projectors are then aimed and leveled close to each others cutoffs. So there is a total of 4 projectors (low and high function) with a 55w and 35w HID kit. Then I have the stock TA fog lights which I have retrofitted with new Clear glass lenses and reflector bowls with a 6K H3 35W HID kit. So basically Im looking at 4 HID projectors and HID fog lights… That ALOT OF LIGHT!!!

Anyways… here are some pics of the install. Ive only gotten 1 headlight basically finished and mocked up on the pass side. THe other headlight is done (projector bracket and projectors installed but need to modify the shrouds and epoxy them together). I also need to cut out the stock headlight bucket on the drive side. I'm in the process of modifying the stock headlight lense shrouds and seeing if I like them… Im not a huge fan currently. Might just fab up some side covers as I think they look bada$$ in their bare frames. I like the projectors even better without the shrouds but the light escaping around the projector openings is annoying. These are basically just teaser shots so you can see what I'm up to. I am mocking these up with the stock 87 formula bumper bungeed in place to check my projector lense to bumper clearances (which I have about 1/4"). I still need to do some prep work on the TA bumper but will then mount the fogs up and such. The headlights prob only pop up about 1/2 the total height of the stockers so it should look less "dumb" hopefully lol.

Anyways sorry for the long text but here are some pics. Thinking I will paint the chrome shrouds black or silver to match the cars soon to be new paint color. Thinking of a medium graphite metallic silver as new paint color.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Got the other headlight done today besides the modified minigatling gun shrouds. I tested the lights out in my backyard so you can see the light output (the wall is 35ft away). I have the cutoffs almost perfectly aligned so you can't tell both are on unless you see all the extra light below the cutoff. You can also see color difference between 6K (white on the outside right of pic) and the 8K (blue on the inside left of pic). Then I mocked them up in the original formula bumper and then in the TA bumper that will be going on. What I have noticed is that the fog lights don't line up with the holes in the TA bumper… the pass side needs like a 1" spacer to bring it down to fit in the hole. Are there spacers in these stock? Where do i get them if so?

This is one projector on only.


This is two projectors on.


Color difference of 8K (left) and 6K (right) both are 35w HID kits.


Mocked up with stock 87 formula bumper.


close up of the driver side projectors without shrouds… I think they look much better but they throw light out the sides


another close up…


TA bumper is much more aggressive and makes a huge difference.

maks10

Like it a lot!!!! Cool idea!!! Awaiting final result

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

It's basically done. Waiting on new headlight motors and that's about it. Unfortunately I won't be able to get finished shots till the car is on the ground, running and finnished. So it will be the spring/summer. I gots lots to do!

Still waiting to figure out if I want to use the shrouds and paint them or try without. I need to get the fogs mounted as they seem to be off alittle and I don't have the correct bolts etc. Then gota make room in the front for the engine hoist and stand which requires moving a 1000lb rock, my motorcycle project and some other stuff.

maks10

I've seen similar... Don't recall these style lights but it's been a while...looks good as is without shroud IMHO

Good luck

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

That's pretty awesome if it works like it should. Keep us posted!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Wonder if those could be used to run a pop-up eliminator setup. They don't look too tall.

But thanks to all the wonderful advances in LED lighting technology, soon we'll be able to run pop-up eliminator setups on birds without affecting the overall silhouette of the car.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I like them without the shroud, but they have alot of light escaping through the projector openings. Gona paint the chrome shrouds and see how they look then.

They should work just fine as they operate just like stock.

I used the same projectors in my infamous non popup deletes. They fit barely but I was only able to fit one and a smaller projector on its side. They have to be all the way towards the engine bay to clear the hood/fender line. Then the bumper cuts off some of the lower area of the beam. Fog lights woukd solve that. Other issue is making a clear cover that doesn't get dirty or fade on the inside to limit light output. I made mine from lexan which worked but does get foggy over time. The lazy eye allows me to position the projector lense higher and clears the bumper, also doesn't require a cover lense so the beam is perfect and max light output.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Haven't updated this but I only made small strides in this department right now. I Painted and detailed the one set of shrouds. ITs a medium charcoal metallic flake and flat black accent and used a flat clear on it. The other side will match but I think its going to look bad *** with the new medium charcoal metallic paint on the car.





You can maybe see the wiring on the radiator plastic front cowl scoop. I did get everything wired up. Had to run a separate power distribution terminal (8 gauge wire from the battery) that way I could run the 2 bixenon HID harnesses and a 40amp relay for the fogs. So I will have 4 projectors, 4 55w HID kits and bixenon function with the OEM headlight switch and high beam on the column. The headlights pop up via the OEM headlight switch. Im thinking of possibly adding a switch to kill one of the HID harness so I have the ability to run 1 set of HID projectors at a time… but Not sure why I would want less light lol.

The Fogs are standard on and off via the OEM fog light switch, uses a 40amp relay and has a pair of 35w HID ballasts and 5K bulbs.

All thats left is fabbing the stops of the headlights to get the last eye height right but make it adjustable. Cut and epoxy the other set of shrouds for the driver side, and paint them. Then figure out what Im going with the headlight shrouds. But I have a ton of other work to do on the car. Finish body work on the worn donor TA bumpers and GFX. I also need to fill some deep scratches on the headlight covers and paint them.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

Man that looks sweet. Cant wait to see it put together.
I know how much work fabbing projectors is. Great job so far.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thanks,

Only strides so far was finishing both sides with the cut/epoxied shrouds and painted them. I also started the body work and painting of all the parts. The doors, fenders, headlight top covers, and door lower GFX were all worked, sealed and then painted/cleared. The front bumper is all worked but needs to get wet sanded and sealed. Then wet sanded again and painted and then cleared. I would like to get the front lower GFX done as well so It can all be put back together. I have been working hard on the TA door rebuild and swap, new gauges and getting the motor, trans and suspension back in.

I had some wiring issues with the 2 HID harnesses (4 bixenon projectors). Lots of funky things going on and took a while to troubleshoot them. Figured out that I had some of the ballast and bulb plugs screwed up and that the pass side headlight plug wasn't grounded on one of the H4 terminals. This caused some weird things to happen when I applied high beams and turned the headlights on. Got it all sorted out and they work great. Four 50W HID kits in projectors is HELLA BRIGHT!


I notched the correct shrouds over the pass side headlight and decided I don't like the look as it covers most of the projector gatling gun shroud. So I came up with the idea to attach it to the bumper/Fender to allow it to stay on the bumper when the headlights go up. Then when it comes down it will fit the top cover and look OEM. I will have to figure out all the mounting but shouldn't be too hard. I also got some great ideas for front blinkers!!

Hopefully at some point I can get the front bumper finished and GFX and get some good pics for you guys.

These are the only ones I got and they show the difference between the lazy eye height and the OEM height of the lights. Lazy eye opened on the pass side and OEM on the driver. I would say its about 50-60% of the way up. But it might go slightly up or down once I get the car on the ground at ride height and it being level out.



Side pic, driver side height in background

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

That "lazy eye" height is really just perfect. Compliments the angle of the fender great I think.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thank-you. was interesting trying to figure out the angle of the projectors in the basket while imagining angle of the headlight cover… while also taking into account of height of the projector lense from the front bumper cover.

On my pop up delete I lost alot of low light in front of the car bc the projectors sat so low and so far back that the bumper cut off most of the light in front of the car (the first 30ft or so). I believe it sits high enough that there is no blockage but still sleek enough to not look as ridiculous as the OEM height.

91ls1t56

That's neat.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Nice job!

I am looking at projector retrofit options now

*suscribed*

TallTim

iTrader: (2)

Custom I missed how you get the lazy eye to work?

That's nice work you're doing and that OEM height kills the look for me too so I'm going to follow in your footsteps.

RSFreak

Could you explain how to modify the motor stops for the lazy eye? I've always wanted to do this mod as I feel the stock popped up height is way too tall.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Right now the headlights are conneted to the motors but I'm setting the height manually. The OEM headlight module uses resistence modules to sense when the headlight hits the stop, once the resistence increases enough it trips the module and stops the motors, this is why some get stuck besides fully open and closed. To get the lazy eye you just need to create a stop that will stop the arm in the position you want it in. The mount must be strong enough to handle the motors/headlights popping up and down at speed. I'm going to add a 90* bend 1/8" steel with a brace that will bolt to the side of the frame with a through bolt. THe through bolt will adjust the height (fine tune). I haven't done the mount yet as the car is on stands and I dont have ride height figured out yet.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Please see post above. I haven't done it yet... but its easy, just create a stop and your good. I need to get the car on the ground to finish the install and set the ride height. Then place the motor stop with enough room for adjustment with a through bolt.

J. Chris Davis

iTrader: (1)

Now that's really cool. I wish I still had a Firebird to do this with. Reminds me of the 70's Vette headlights. Def subscribed!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

This is where I'm at now. Front bumper is on. Car is mostly together. I need to get it cleaned off and around it cleaned out to push it up to paint the whole back half of the car and hood.

After I get it on the ground I'm going to figure out ride height so I can Start the headlight stops for stopping the headlight at the right heights but need to have the car on the ground to figure that out.

I ended up modifying the inner projector harness controller so I can leave the outers on as automatic and then turn the inners on for extra light at the touch of a button.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

very nice sir!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thanks! Idk why the pics of the headlights up but not one didn't show up so I'm adding them in. Post above has been updated with 2 new pics.

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

So without putting the projectors in a housing what are you doing about keeping weather and dirt out of the projectors? Looks awesome by the way.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Basically nothing lol. There is very limited ways for water to get into the projectors except around the shroud. You could always use silicone to seal it up as the caps are small but the headlight cover will keep water (from washing etc from getting on or around the projectors. My car is not driven in the rain so I wasn't worried about such things just when I was the car. But they make these sweet looking billet housings the H1 minis fit into and they are fully weather proof and personally think it would look better than my current setup as its more sleek/modern.

These are the billet covers Im referring too. I might eventually do this but for now I didnt want to spend the extra $140 or so on the billet housings to seal it up. Plus you loose the back mounting screw/nut but you gain the front 4 mounting points which might actually be better!

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

I figured as clean as your car is it wasn't seeing much weather, just thought that would be a good piece of info in this thread for anyone considering this lol.

I just did a silverado headlight conversion on a 91 camaro and am shopping for some small projectors to mod into the housings. I can find low beam projectors small enough but I can find high beam projectors that aren't high/low with the motor to flip the cutoff up and down. At least not a price I wanna spend.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yes it def should!

What are the size limitations? Is it a depth or thickness issue?

A couple of things to note also is that H1 Mini projectors are not designed for 50-55w HID systems, the extra heat can cause the bowl chrome to tarnish or bubble up reducing light output. This is due to the design and how close the bulb arc is to the back of the bowl. I run them for more light and I don't get large run time on them compared to a DD. A 35w kit will last much longer. Also there are different versions, V1-V5 are the old design, basically a oval bowl and less light output (mainly the ones you see for sale from DDM or all the ones on ebay etc). Then the V6 and 6.1 both use a totally redesigned bowl and offer much greater light output, V6 has a shorter threaded shaft/nut and can be difficult to retrofit into thicker housings. V6.1 is the same as V6 but has the longer V1-5 threaded shaft/nut. A new V7 should be coming out within the next year.

Now to help you out.... the smallest/shortest projector available that is both bixenon is the Matchbox and retails for about $120, due to its smaller size it can't compete with the Mini H1 and D2S but its a great fog light or headlight retro compared to halogen reflectors. Also a pair of them would give you good usable light. But The D2S mini is your best bet for shorter overall height (about 1/2" shorter than the mini H1) but the bulbs base is MUCH thicker and will require drilling out the back of any bulb size except the H4 which it drops right into. The D2S is comparable to the mini H1, the lightoutput is slightly less (distance throw and hot spot) but has a larger more defined HI beam. Plus the D2S due to the different bulb base and bowl design you can use a 50/55w ballast and be fine since the bulb is farther away from the bowl surface. So its a toss between the 2 but the minis are the smallest true bixenon projector. Mini H1 V1-5 i get for $38-45 a pair with shrouds, V6-6.1 your looking at $120 from retrofitsource without shrouds, Matchbox looking at $50+ for older styles (square lense) and $120 for the newest version from retrofitsource with round lense... not sure if shrouds are included.

If I were you I would run 2 bixenons, get 2 low beam outputs and 2 high beam outputs... so double your light output!

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

This had not occured to me at all, that's awesome lmao. I could aim for a wider beam pattern to the right for critters on that side of the road (I live in the sticks) and have the left adjusted to not blind oncoming traffic. And yeah I'm pretty well versed on HID systems, and I've done a few projector retrofits before, I was just having trouble finding a high beam projector the same size as the low beam ones for aesthetics, but if I use 4 of the same bi xenon projector it will match perfect.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Glad I could have helped. Thats my current setup. And I just did a retro H1 Bixenon mini projector on my 2014 Dodge ram fog lights and they are tied into the OEM high beams. So now at night I have OEM projector bixenon headlights, Seperate high beam halogen housings and now essentially a 2nd set of full HID bixenon headlights in my fogs. So there is alot of light lol.

Now its just figuring out what will fit in your housing and your good to go.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

This past weekend I was able to get the hood prepped and painted (had a biotch of a time as somehow water/oil was getting through my inline dryer and caused fisheyes. Super Irrotating as I had to wait for it to dry (I tried to remove it but made a mess) and then rep rep. Got a few imperfections but I'm ok with it for now. The spoiler got painted too and that got some fish eyes as well lol.









I got the hood on too but for some odd reason the glasstek hood isn't lining up perfectly. The TA bumper sits like 1" too low compared to the hood. I had a similar issue with the firebird bumper and this hood but it was only about 1/2". I gotta see if I can bring the middle top of the bumper up higher.

maks10

Pretty!!! Might have retract my earlier statement about keeping car as is when ur paint looks like this now!!! Having fitment issues with my dura flex hood too....awaiting winter to tackle mine....good luck

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yea, what u can't see is the metallic flake in the paint. Sparkles!

I actually just finished painted the back half of the car today... need to do bodywork on the rear bumper but that's all that's left.

The hood had never fit... like glasstek didnt mold it right and theirs not enough drop in the front. Super annoying. But this is the worst it's been.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Well guys I got it all done!! I won't have any good pics of the car as its still in my tent but it is on the ground and 99% complete. Mostly just need to clean up the inside tools and what not. I may have to remove the driver door panel and replace the bear claw or door latch as it ate up the plastic guide that the hook rides in and causes it not to fully open. So I open the door normally and then if I go to close it, it will hit the latch and make a loud thud noise and the door won't close bc its pushed the latch into the lock position without the striker in the latch. ugh.

Now onto the updates. Making the brackets took me 30 min maybe. some 1/2"x1/8" thick steel plate, a few holes and a welded nut and Im done. I drilled and tapped into the stock stop on the headlight and then used a long 1/4-20 threaded bolt with spring to set headlight height/aim. As of right now its just a cheap grade 3 zinc coated bolt but I plan to change it out to a 1/4-20 Stainless button head with allen bolt hole in the near future. This was just to verify it worked as planned.

Here is a close up of the simple bracket.


THis is what it looks like on the headlight. I used self tapping sheet metal screws for now. But over the winter plan to prob remove the headlights completely and put in some small machine head screws with nuts and washers.


Another angle


So I painted the sheet metal screw heads black so u can't even tell the bracket is there, it is adjustable with the headlight up or down as long as the hood is up and its very easy. THe spring keeps tension on the bolt so it doesn't screw/unscrew. I might end up putting another nut on there to "lock" it down but for now i know its good.

Moment of truth, hit the headlight switch and very quietly and smoothly the headlights come up and stop perfectly. HIDs are on and works like a charm! Button off and they come down smoothly and perfectly. Given my past experiences with the popup headlights I can't even express how nice these new refurbished motors sound and actuate. I used a fero/firebird guy on ebay who rebuilds the motors, and gear drives. I Opted for the aluminum inside gear so it could never break/need replacing. Best $200 I spent!

Currently I have the outer projectors set to automatically turn on when the headlights are turned on, the inner ones are still wired into the headlights but use a separate switch to complete the circuit. SO i have independent control of the 2nd pair of projectors, if I leave the button activated both sets (4 projectors) will turn on with the stock headlight switch. My only issue so far is that when the high beams are actuated It turns on the inner set of HIDs/projectors so Im assuming its back feeding even if the switch is off. I think my only option would be to use a diode or something to control current flow but will diagnose that at a later date. Still the lights work as should and are VERY bright! Can't wait to get some good car shots and output shots.

Best part is that the car looks more bad @SS now that Its all together than I thought it would! Here are some close up shots as its the best I can do for now.





Enjoy!

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

It looks awesome! Congrats on getting it done

are you going to make or reuse the original headlight shroud/cover thingy???

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

Scroll up to the last pic in the first post and you can see the shroud he made.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I actually picked up some broken shrouds (older style) that fits this style bumper and not the 91-92 like the one I posted before. It fit right on top of the projectors with very little grinding out and bolted up like stock. When closed it looked like an OEM headlight. When up the plastic shroud covered most of the projector shrouds and it looked funky. So I decided to try to mount them to the fender/bumper so they stayed put in the "down" position. Headlights closed and looks stock, open it up the shround doesn't move and the headlights go up and looks much better now that the projector shrouds aren't covered. But I had to hog out alot of the shroud material for the projector lenses to pass through them as the headlights raised so it didn't turn out that great. I'm trying to explore other ideas (perhaps just the side pieces) just to box it in but I'm not going to spend anymore time on it since its the end of the driving season and I want to get the car out. I thought I had some pics on my photobucket but I don't, Maybe I'll post some later tonight so you guys see where I was going with it.

I also thought about swapping the projectors into those billet housings to make them waterproof but The increased size prob won't fit in the stock headlight as well.

But I will say that without the shrouds it looks awsome, even when the lights are down you see the very top of the shrouds and I kind of like the look of it. Looks sinister like something is hiding in there. Also due to the small amount of space there after the blinker is installed etc its very hard to see that there is nothing there.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Here are some pics of the shroud that I made for the pass side. You can see how much I had to cut out as the projector lense moves/swings up, to the side and out during the pop up. Really doesn't cover enough for me to keep it on.



Front view of it open in position showing the shroud staying down


This is what it looks like when its closed.

rce2win

iTrader: (2)

Those look great! I can't say i like the chopped up look of the shroud. What if you added that component to the flip up portion of the headlight? It looks like you have the space above the projectors to do so. Some aluminum with the correctly angled "break" attached to the underside of the flip-up could do the trick. Matching the radius of that outside sweep would be the hardest part. Might even be a cool spot for a strip of white LED lights for some DRL's.

muswp1

I think that would look better with the shroud on the headlight door like rce2win said. It looks like it would work.