TA

iTrader: (1)

Glad to be of help. I just find it ironic that many board members will hack and modify endlessly to find more power, but freak out when it comes to doing something that virtually every manufacturer but GM Has been doing since fuel pumps went into the tanks. I guess when you see some of the hack jobs out there, it is just automatically associated with poor workmanship/mechanical skills.

TA

Fords88Bird

I did this access panel myself but I dropped the tank first just to see how much fun it was (yea right), what I did was def not a hack job- I started a thread on this a few months ago also. Later.

LTL_DMON

iTrader: (1)

AH-HA!!! I just pulled up my carpet and found a metal panel in the back... and I think I know why it's there.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Anyways back to topic. I believe just about any TGO would agree it's your car if something goes wrong. I don't see this any different than say the people that run light weight drag race brake kits on the street or wiring the fuel pump to run hot after carb swap (which I'm guilty of that currently) or etc.

I skipped most of this thread due to flaming, but I wanted to point out if you do a cut a hole like that in metal it's always a good idea to radius the corners if possible, else they might tear overtime due to flexing and the tear will just grow until it hits a support.

megan.artiaco

Talk about mad!!! I took my IROC into the shop to replace the fuel pump and fuel sending unit SPECIFICALLY so I didn't have to deal with the hassle of dropping the tank only to stop by the shop and see the mechanic sitting in the truck!!!!!! SOOOOOO PISSED!!!!!

megan.artiaco

And he had the audacity to say he was gonna DUCT TAPE it back closed! UGH!

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

sue him. make him pay to have the trunk pan repaired professionally. there is no excuse for that.

was the hole already there? its possible

megan.artiaco

The hole was not already there. My husband and I had checked before we decided to take it into a shop. If the hole was there, we could have easily replaced the sending unit and pump ourselves.

What kind of professional repair can be done?

In the end, it's something I can live with, but still ticks my nerves.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Professional repair would be to weld a piece of sheet metal back in and grind the welds smooth again. Obviously doing that over a fuel tank has it's own dangers. That's basically what people do when they replace rusted out floor pans though. Another option would be to install an access panel. They make them fairly cheap $30-$45 which is basically a frame that can be attached with a door and lock type for access later.

Either way I would highly recommend the corners have a radius to them so they don't stress and tear and it's all painted so it doesn't rust.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

most important question is how did the "mechanic" splice the hard lines after he cut them?

as for a repair, you either make a nice finished access panel, or have the piece spliced back in, which will require removing the tank to do properly.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

The hole was cut in my Bird before I got it. They used a cut off wheel and snips and then just folded the metal back with alot of metal bent at the edges and obviously where it was bent back. I am cutting that back to good straight metal and going to put a piece from another trunk section in over the top with hinges and screws. I was not excited about dropping the tank but was about to start when I remembered people on here talking about this and checked,sure enough one was hacked in. It did make life easier but I need to make it smoother and not so easy to get cut on. I certainly agree to round the edges of the hole. Then put a cover over it and screw it down and seal it.

StringRust

iTrader: (2)

That's rediculous.

Jono4820

iTrader: (1)

So I shouldn't have cut a whole in my door panel to replace the door lock actuator???

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Well maybe, it all depends which manual you were looking at.

mattyc

iTrader: (2)

i just b ought an 88 and this part was already cut out. it was a god send.just make sure it is sealed up good when done

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

This is the 2nd time in 20 years that my pump has puked on me.. I am glad that I didn't cut a hole through the floor to get to it. It was about about an 9 hour job to change it, and that could have been alot less if it wasn't for the 4 inch exhaust that had to be removed.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I did this. Would not hesitate to do it again. And if it makes the chassis weaker (which in my opinion it doesnt) the car would be so messed up either way if I got hit that hard to make that an issue. Rust is not an issue for me. I mean california. If water is getting up there it means im in a flood and the car is toast anyway. my lines were already cut. I flared each end of the metal tubing and used fuel injection hose with hose clamps. done deal. would and will do this to every third gen I get.

Fords88Bird

Good for you. Later.

DD9TransAmGTA

iTrader: (1)

i would never do this to my car, my 1987 GTA had it cut out and me and my dad were like "what idiots". It's a cheap way of doing it, i encourage anyone thinking about it to not. Just drop the axle like a normal person. No one wants to buy a car that someone cut especially a collector. its half *** work.

claytonjn

iTrader: (5)

In my '92 Camaro Vert the PO did this...except it looks like he used garden clippers to cut the sheet metal. It's not pretty, and he left it open. Needless to say, it's on my list of things to repair.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

by repair your going to weld in new sheetmetal or are you just going to make a good looking cover for it?

T/Atime

thanks to tgo, i was able to make a nice clean fuel pump access door. the measurements were perfect. just enought room to work with 1 brass compression fittings and 3 rubber high pressure hoses. A larger thicker guage metal plate was used as a cover. everything was cut with sharp tin snips. thought i had a bad pulsator valve. Replaced it with a rubber hose. oops not the problem. ordered up a new pump and was able to install it in 20min. It hides under the carpet and its there when you need to save your self 4hours labor. btw this is my 3ed pump so i might need this door again sometime.

This mod is not for everyone. some dont mind dropping the tank, but i sure do. Theres lots of information on this site. and there lots of people that cant stand the idea of cutting up such a nice machine. reseach it!

claytonjn

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to (unfortunately) have to cut the hole larger with pneumatic shears to clean up the edges, then create brackets to mount a plate and caulk around it. At this point I don't see any advantage in welding in sheet metal...Car isn't stock anyways, and then I would have to find a welding machine to use and hope I still remember everything from high school welding class.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I think you are making something out of absolutely nothing. Whether it is a fuel access panel, rotted floor boards, or quarter panel work, anything can be brought back to where it needs to be again. Yes, it can be avoided simply by dropping the exhaust and axle, but to someone who doesn't know how to work on these cars, cutting the hole makes for an easy fix, and its just as easy as far as I'm concerned patching it back up. I hear you though, believe me....

Recaro trans am

iTrader: (1)

This is one hell of a debate!! I have to say my 2 cents though.......

I have owned my 1985 trans am (originally 305 carburated, T5, with original recaro interior) almost 15 years, was my first car, and still my fav driver. I have don't everything to keep this car as stock as possible, and if something was modified made it in a way that was easily reversible.

This topic struck my interest because i recently had to remove my fuel tank to seal it from rust because it was not properly done when the sump was welded in. Long story short, when i reinstalled it after being out almost a month the fuel sending unit was full of surface rust, cleaned it up , put it in the tank, put the tank back in the car. Filled it with about 5 gal's of fuel, started the car, runs great, No fuel gauge!!!! Was pegged full. With 5 gal's its no where near full. So i had to drop the tank again, tried to fix it , did not work, drop it a third time, finally condemned the 26 year old sending unit.

Now, like i said first i hate cutting this car up in anyway that it was not intended, even the new sending unit that was not even original, was hard for me to modify. But i though for a brief moment about cutting an access hole. And these make perfect since! The Only reason that these cars do not have fuel pump access holes is because at the time fuel injection and in tank pumps were still uncommon. My original fuel pump was on the engine block feeding my sad excuse for a carburetor! At the time of converting to fuel injection i caught a bad batch of fuel pumps, and it drove me nuts to drop the tank. (part of the reason i put in the sump)

Also, With all my fuel tank removal skills.......(lol) I have never had to remove the axle to remove the fuel tank. Take out the muffler, pan-hard bar and mount reinforcement bar, both lower shock bolts and let the axle down on a jack. Theres more then enough room to take the tank out.

So i guess in the end its all a matter of preference, but i don't think its destroying the car, assuming it is done well!!! Well being the key! Think ahead and plan your cuts and the replacement panel. Buy a good flare tool and put unions on the metal lines, or even quick release couplings to make it easy to remove, and able to hold back 50+ psi!!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Wanted to add, for those of you who do not have access to a flare tool, or are not sure how to implement AN fittings, you'll want to simply use fuel hose, but be sure to connect your high pressure fuel lines using TWO clamps on each side, do not use the worm clamps, use good compression lock fittings, and you won't leak....

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I wouldnt have done it if my lines werent flared. They were so I trust it. No problems so far.

Hylton

Thanks for the tips guys. You've really helped me out with my '92 'vert.

rusty vango

its not that at all,i think .its just there are two ways to repair our third gens ,the right way and the wrong one.and if its yours .go ahead and do it ,its not that hard to do correctly, but many people insist on doing a hurry up job.and me,well im totally **** about "correct" and "proper" as im sure many other members are

jhainer

I have heard this debate many times. cut the hole don't cut the hole. here's my 2 cents worth. my 92 that had a motor swap with a carbthe in tank fuel pump went out so i went to a holley I cut the hole to remove the pump and extend the pick up line. the Iroc pulled the pump and extended teh pickup tube . the 91 I just picked up the pump is out. right now the car is in teh air rearend is hanging and probably tomorrow the tank will be out. why I know why not just cut thwe hole well here's my reasoning behind it . after carefull consideration. the 92 wasn't stock wasn't close to stock with switching froma v6 to a v8. the iroc isn't stock or close to stock no heat no a/c big block under the hood. the 91 motor is untouched with 102000 miles interior is going back stock cars going to get stripped and put back stock color. basiclly a restore with a restore you don't want an access hole cut above the tank. yes GM should have put it there but they didn't so since they didn't I'm not doing it to a restored car. now with that being said. gm dealer when replacing blower motor in my fathers silverado tehy took a hole saw and cut an access hole in the heater box replaced the blower then duck taped the hole shut. thats what there repair manual shows. yea well I wasn't happy about it but a year later the blower went out again and thank god for the access hole tehy cut

Zerocyde

There are only two valid reasons not to build a custom access hatch... Either you have some kind of a weird obsession with stock, or you don't have the mechanical ability.

jhainer

I don't know if anyone has noticed but thirdgen camaro's/firebirds prices have started rising for good cars. with the hole cut i think will start taking away the price one they get to the collector status. thats why the 91 z is not getting the cut but the Iroc did. theres nothing about the iroc that is stock anymore but the z is completly stock or at least will be when i am done. one day it might be worth 10 dollars more cause the hole isn't cut

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

neither of those are valid by any stretch. Weird obsession? Is that what caring about the car is called these days? No mechanical ability? What mechanical ability is needed to cut a hole in the floor? About none, and thats why this work is done 95 percent on the time.

If the car is not a race car that needs frequent fuel pump changes (my 5%), there is no reason to do this other than a lack of mechanical ability to pull the tank. Pumps dont need to be changed every 3k miles.

If you cut the access hole, do it "right" make a clear cut, make a proper door with threaded inserts to bolt it down and a gasket to keep fumes out of the car. flare the lines, use unions, forget rubber hose, i dont care what hose you use or what clamps you use, its not safe, period, especially on tpi cars with higher fuel pressure. There is a reason the factory used heavy reinforced hose and crimped threaded connections and not the clamps the early carbed cars had on the lines. Seriously, if a simple piece of hose and 2 hose clamps are adequate, Gm could have saved millions building these cars, dont you think they would have if it was safe?

an interesting observation. Granted, every third gen will never be worth money, rare more desirable ones yes, but the average run of the mill car wont. But still, a car with a hole chopped in the floor will lose value here.

/Rant

Zerocyde

Cars aren't barbie dolls, cars are meant to be driven. The entire idea of keeping them as ornate decorative show pieces is a practice that I find absolutely disgusting.

I never once said anything about "cutting a hole in a floor." I very clearly said "build a custom access hatch."

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

which involves cutting a hole in the floor....so.....

what? what does driving the car have to do with any of this? You are really reaching here.

I agree that people who build cars only to lock them in a climate controlled building and never start them is a waste. Cars are meant to be driven.

T/Atime

do people regularly ask the seller "the car looks great but can i lift up the carpet to see if you installed a fuel pump door"?

i love my car but i dont treat it like its some investement thats going to make me a small fortune one day. its just a car!!

nickfrmtx89

i agree. Plus, i plan to keep my car for as long as i can so if i need to make modifications to convenience me in future part replacements, why not? I'm planning on doing the same to my 92 Camaro RS but i don't want to reconnect the steel line with just some hose and clamps even though that'll prob do i want to make the union as solid as possible, i was thinking double flare?

Rocky1974

You guys with all your access panels are missing all the fun! First there's the exhaust. That always comes off easy, after it's been on for a while. Then there's all those fun suspension bolts, heat shields, splash panels, fuel lines, and electrical connections. Seriously though, I'm glad that my car is low mile, one owner, and garage kept. The only thing that twisted off was one of my sway bar links. I'm glad that I didn't cut a hole in this car, but I think I'll cut one in my 83 Z/28, when the time comes.

Zerocyde

I don't think of it as just "cutting a hole."

I removed every single wire from headlights to taillights when I switched to carb and fully replaced the convoluted rats nest.
I built my own gauge cluster to replace the stock one.
I built a new top piece for the center console that move the stereo up, replaced the hvac controls with a switch bank, and added 2 cup holders.

You think I'm not gonna UPGRADE the rear to feature a latching, hinged fuel tank hatch door? Of course I am.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

a little late, but yes! I do, and i did on a few cars.

MotorMouth

The problem I have with it is you are cutting holes in a place that is the weakest area of the fuel tank. Then you have a hole going into the car if you ever get rear-ended and rupture the tank. That fuel will go into the car through that door. It's a remote possibility but it could happen. That is why NASCAR makes you have a closed firewall between the driver and fuel tank. People never think fully what the cause and effect could be.

T/Atime

fyi theres is other holes from the factory near this location even if you dont have a fuel access door. a 100% stock car is still subject to leakage.

but good news! what i did to my gta is drilled safety holes in my roof of the car just in case any fuel leaks into the cabin, it will just leak out the roof. when it rains it leaks out of my access door.

Dodgeman79

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorMouth
The problem I have with it is you are cutting holes in a place that is the weakest area of the fuel tank. Then you have a hole going into the car if you ever get rear-ended and rupture the tank. That fuel will go into the car through that door. It's a remote possibility but it could happen. That is why NASCAR makes you have a closed firewall between the driver and fuel tank. People never think fully what the cause and effect could be.
fyi theres is other holes from the factory near this location even if you dont have a fuel access door. a 100% stock car is still subject to leakage.

but good news! what i did to my gta is drilled safety holes in my roof of the car just in case any fuel leaks into the cabin, it will just leak out the roof. when it rains it leaks out of my access door.

HAHAHAHA that just made my day lmao

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

On my car the holes were already in the roof from the factory. They called it T Tops.

made2drag

cut the hole then cut a peice of diamond plate aluminum an inch bigger. put seam sealer and lay your aluminum down. the car has seam sealer all over the place anyway...then place dynamat over that, since it needs it there anyway. unless you pull the carpet and jute padding and pull the dynamat, whose going to know? if you plan on selling the car....take a picture....give it to the new owner and he will thank you for making the pump change easier ...since pumps fail so often...i did the fuel pump access door and had the pump out and was hose clamping it within 30 mins.

nickfrmtx89

i made that "access" panel 7 years ago when i was 16 and first got my 92 Camaro RS. thinking i was gonna gain access to my fuel pump, but i just couldn't bring myself to cut the fuel lines. then about a year ago my mechanic told me that i may be able to take the straps off and drop the tank without dropping everything else and it might give me enough wiggle room to take out the whole sending unit since i already had the access hole cut. has anyone ever tried it that way before?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Without hacking up and causing an unsafe condition in the car, it is possible to remove the fuel tank in 45 mins, this isnt something worth the risk for a pump you should have to change once in 10 years, 2 hours, really ? two ?

racerquinny

iTrader: (1)

reading a few of these post and i just have to put my thought into it..............


my 93' saab 900 turbo has a fuel pump access door and fuel level sendor door for the. makes the job 10x's easier and saves time. what i would do is make it on a hinge so that the next time it goes for you or the next owner to be...its just a small door to come off.

project89

iTrader: (1)

wow this thread is still going , lmao i still laugh at ppl who argue about this.

but i will say ive owned 17 f-bodys now and on every last one of them i cut the access door even on the 4 factory mint cars ive had, just incase i ever had to replace a pump.

and every f-body i ever buy or get will have an access door put in it

i can show u pics of cars that were rear ended and that whole flat area is designed to crumple wether it is cut or not, putting a acess door there has no effct on the strenght of that area

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

While I would want to disagree about the flat area designed to crumple it is apparent that it does. Why do I disagree, because if it was designed to crumple then the plan was to have tanks rupturing and then quite probably more fires etcetera.
However I would also believe that the flat piece of metal that is cut is not the strength of that area. The recessed grooves and the reinforcment below there is the strength of that area. I feel that the area cut must not take out any factory bends in the metal or be at the edge of the bend. This will weaken it if not reinforced in an appropriate manor. A well screwed down sealed cover should be appropriate.