Edwardgp

Some people should not even try to work on cars, we can only hope they are at the beginning of their learning curve for automotive repair.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I remember parting out one thirdgen that had house wire run from the fan, through the door jam opening and to a house light switch, then back to the fan....

Sinfulrelations

My friends mud truck had multiple toggle switches, that ran everything no fuses whatsoever and caught fire at least once every three months lol, hey I've also seen a light switch in a car foe the headlights but that's another story

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Sinfulrelations

When I get home ill upload a picture on here, its one of them things, you just gotta see it to gather the true magnitude of it lol

jdtm84

If I was to try to remove my tank every bolt would snap and the car would be worthless I broke all 4 bolts off my trans cross member when doing the engine swap otherwise the car is solid but I see the strap bolts snapping and I think welding there would be a horrible idea even worse then cutting a hole in a solid car. If it was all rusted out it might be a bad idea seeming the metal above the gas tank may be the only metal left in 20 years.

Sinfulrelations

When you weld you actually add metal to the area, causing more stiffness, plus I would be more worried about how the metal is "spot welded" together

jdtm84

no i dont think you get what im saying if i took my tank out i would have to weld the straps back up to hold the tank or find a way to get bolts back in there welding inches from a fuel tank seems like a bad idea stiffness would not matter if i blew the car up or burned it down trying to fix it.

cIaRmOaCrZo

soak your bolts in penetrating oil prior to removing. my personal favorite is gm heat valve lube, and next best would be some PB blaster. then if need be, take a long chisle if in a hard to get spot and smack the bolt head with a hammer to help vibrate and massage. just some techniques iv pick up on in my line of work.

I'M THE BATMAN

Wow 1st nite with my 92 vert , And i'm learnimg crap already.

My dad said this car is on it's 3rd fuel pump( 35,000 miles ). And to never run it below a 1/4 tank of fuel.

Yes , No , Maybe ? B.S. ? or a good way to extend F.P. life ?

cIaRmOaCrZo

it would help. keeping the pump submerged in fuel keeps it cooler, better lubricated with the saturation of fuel.

strrtwinkle

need some help got my son taking the fuel tank out of a 1991 Firebird 3.1 the muffler heat shield and exhaust pipe shield have been removed straps are hanging down muffler and exhaust pipe not on hangers so now my question is... is there a way to get tank out without total removal of cross member and brace, coil springs etc and a quick reply would be greatly appreciated

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Exhaust pipe not on hangers ?

Exhaust pipe has to be out of the car, sounds like you've got it in there but lowered.

Do you mean panhard bar and brace when you say crossmember and brace ? If so no they have to come out, its not very hard to do so.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Buy an OEM denso pump for a 95 supra twin turbo.

strrtwinkle

Sorry we don't know the "specific names" to all parts he just trys to do most repairs for me himself as i'm on limited funds but now next question is easiest way to get exhaust out and he had tried to undo bolts with a rented impact drill but to long to fit in area and he not strong enough to turn by hand we have seen and read most post and looked at the pics and I have noticed the "different" types for same year and come to realize mine is what they call 3rd generation if that makes a difference.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Okay the panhard bar uses 2 different sizes of bolts. So on reassembly I recommend putting both bolts in prior to installing the nuts. Yeah it sucks to get one all the way one just to find out guess what you used the wrong bolt size and now the other bolt doesn't fit.

For stubborn clamp nuts use some penetrating oil on them. I recommend PB Blaster which you can buy at Auto Zone or Oreily's or just about any similar store. If you plan to do a lot of projects save yourself the money and buy the gallon of it. It comes with a spray bottle then you just refill when necessary.

Don't be afraid to let the PB Blaster work over a few days. I've went as long as 3 to 4 days before retreating once or twice a day before I've got stuff loose.

If you need more leverage over a normal ratchet a "cheater bar" is your friend. Put a small bar that fits over the end of the ratchet handle and use it for additional power. This comes in very handy when doing steering components on a FWD car when they are tq'd to 200+ ft lbs. The junkyard method I use for stuck bolts out there when I don't want to carry around my 1 to 3 foot bar is I use a long 12" crescent wrench and tighten it down to fit snugly on the end of the ratchet that gives you a little more leverage.

For some reason if you have to remove the pipes after you get the clamps off to replace a muffler or something they usually are pinched on very tight. They make an exhaust pipe tool for it. It clamps on both the sides and a bolt screws into the outside clamp and meets with a concave on the inside clamp. After it's all snug on the pipes you tighten the bolts and it'll put pressure on the other clamp and push them apart. After you get it apart it helps to have an exhaust pipe expanding tool to make the outside diameter pipe larger to get it back on the inside diameter pipe.

strrtwinkle

I really Thank ya'll for all the info,I guess I should have said that this is the biggest thing I've ever tried, just know normal "fix it" like tune ups, brakes, alternator, starters. I only have the normal tools so guess I'm over my head w/ this but now I'm stuck w/ car up under carport so no way to drive it some where even if my Mom had the $4 or $500 they want to repair tank. Is there some where I can find pictures? I know I sound lame but was just trying to save my Mom's car, there is no way she can get it fixed so she would sell it for parts I guess, she loves that car has had it since day 1

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Autozone and other similar stores usually have a rent a tool program. You pay full price for the tool, but it is refunded if you return the tool within 48 hours (local stores let me keep tools longer here). Thats what I do when I need a speciality tool like a slide hammer that I might use two times a year.


Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

strrtwinkle

Well seem to be making a little more progress but son says he's not going thru all this again and since I'v had 3 fuel pumps(1 devective) since '91 I read about cutting an acess hole behind seat, wants to know what to use to cut it with.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Really cutting a hole is extra work IMO. But like I have said earlier to each his own. Remember you need to cut the lines and reattach them also. First time I changed a FWD wheel hub it took me ~6 hours, following weekend I did it again on the otherside all in under 2 hours.

That being said if the tank is out IMO a hole saw would make the cleanest cut (remember edges meeting each other is stress when working with metal) and then straight cuts between the two rounded cuts.

A cutoff disc might work by itself just remember to use a die grinder bit and radius the edges of the cut.



Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

strrtwinkle

Question what is the actual size of the hole i notice you have the measurement of edges from where the cut is made but not the actual size of the hole my son is having to replace my float and also repair a hole in tank so he says while tank is out to go ahead and put the hole in for next time fuel pump etc goes out to make it easier. Hopefully I might get a quick reply as we are in middle of pulling tank out now..thanks

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Maybe I'm over thinking it but the measurement from the edges of the hole cut to the sheet metal press marks is better than the hole size. How else would you know where exactly to cut the hole?

If you wanted to follow Ca[maro]88's post just measure from the sheet metal press marks the distance and mark the edge to be cut.

I've never done it before so I take no blame if measurements are wrong or anything.

strrtwinkle

Could you tell me how big that hole should be?, I'm going to get my son to do that since he now trying to get the tank out to repair then if pump goes out he will be ready for an easier job.....'91 Firebird 3.1

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Careful cutting. There is less than 1" clearance from the floor to the tank & when you cut the front? You have less than half that between the gas lines & the floor. Safest way is to pull the tank & cut the floor. Very difficult tp cut the fuel lines with the pump/line assembly in place, so you pretty much have to drop the tank 1 last time to do this mod, but you won't have to drop the tank next time to replace the pump.

The last pic is not a 3rd gen but the connections are how they should look right when done correctly.

strrtwinkle

guess I didn't say it clear enough, sorry, the tank will be out when he cuts the hole, just wanted an idea how long & wide it would need to be. Thanks to all for the input so that I can try and keep my car,had it since new and kept it up but now lost job so son was trying to help out w/ limited know how.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

OK. The first pic will at least show him where to cut.

strrtwinkle

Could you tell me how to get the top off where the fuel pump and lines are located on the tank, sorry don't know name of it son is doing the work

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

It is just a flat ring with tans sticking up that locks the pump assembly in. Use something like a flat bladed screwdriver to tap it in a circular motion to unlock it.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

^ I agree.

I believe they suggest you use something like a bronze or brass punch. Last thing you want is a spark right next to gasoline vapors.

strrtwinkle

ok got the ring loosened and off now my problem is dealing with the neck of tank and i'm hoping there is a possible way to remove tank without removing the right rear coil spring to allow tank to move to the right and then down to allow neck to clear its resting place in fuel door area but I need to know if the removal of coil spring is only option how hard is it really to remove and put back on for my son to do as the car is in carport and rear end is jacked up to the safe maximum height

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

The only way I know of to remove the tank with the rear end still in the car is to get it high enough to hang straight down from the control arms.

So yes.....Removing the springs is required, to my knowledge & experience in doing it, which means unbolting the shocks from the rear end. The shocks can stay bolted to the body & don't hafta be completely removed.

And unless you can get the car high enough to twist & turn the tank to slide the filler neck out? The rear end will hafta come completely out. The only way I've ever seen a tank dropped with the rear end still "in", was on a 2-post lift with the rear end hanging straight down hanging from the control arms.

I have seen people claim to have gotten it out on jackstands & the rear just hanging & still connected, but I don't see how. And the people that claimed to have done it I wouldn't call reputable sources on info here on TGO. I don't know them, but haven't seen enough advice posted by them to fully trust their claim.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

The shocks, brake like bracket, and sway bar links have to be unbolted, springs will fall out since you have to get the car as high as possible to get the tank out. Main problem is the filler neck.

kauboy

To gain more clearance remove the bolt holding the brake hose to the rearend and take your wheels off, it will allow the rearend to drop even more so you can get the filler neck through the hole, it made it easier for me.

kauboy

So what happened? Is it done?

strrtwinkle

Well almost, gave up on taking out spring as son isn't comfortable w/ that so cut a hole behind back seat and put "door" on also then fixed hole in tank and put back up(w/ help) the sending unit looked really old and nasty so just replaced that & pump, so today will see if it all works before putting all the stuff back together, keeping fingers crossed, I want to Thank you guys for the input at least if it happens again he won't have near the trouble.

Edwardgp

That has been a big challenge for you and your Son. You guys hung in there like true third genners and I want to congratulate you. Good job hope everything works.

strrtwinkle

Thank you it has and was a challenge for him. We also have a curiousity question we noticed on the included instructions of sending unit and fuel pump that we were supppose to pull out the fuse from fuse block that controls sending unit and then run car til it quits but we always thought that u were not suppose to run a car with fuel injectors out of gas.. Also can you tell me what the spark plug gap is for this model the car as it is running but rich smelling from exhaust pipes

white_ghost

If you have your tank still or at least dont have your exhaust welded back in, you should purchase self adhering heat shield mat from (NAPA) and put it on the bottom of your tank. this will allow you to leave out that darn rattling tin bolt on heat shield.

white_ghost

Plug Gap is .35

The_Wraith

No need to drop the tank to do this. Carefully cutting lightly on a mark with a grinder and you wont even come close to touching the tank. 1" of clearance is plenty. Especially since another user has provided all of the measurements.

Also hi pressure FI rubber hose and FI clamps will work 100% fine it is not necessary to go all fancy. I trust rubber and hose clamps over compression fittings on top of my tank. They are prone to leak if bent or moved the wrong way. I am also running a partially home made steel mated to rubber FI line on bends right on top of the gas tank in my 4.3 vortec safari work van (over 50psi) which sees much more abuse and mileage the most thirdgens on here. Still leak free.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

I dunno about "another user" since my post that you quoted has the pics of measurements in addition to all the times that I have posted them here on TGO more than I even care about thinking about!

I didn't say that you NEEDED to. I just said it was the safest way to. And while there is (almost) 1" of clearance to the tank, the lines are between the tank & floor therefore even less room. I doubt there is any more 3/8" clearance between the floor & fuel lines.

The_Wraith

Still plenty of room to cut the lines.

rusty vango

put the pipe down man,you have had enough

antman89iroc

This thread blows my mind. I know of no other subject that causes such heated debate. Probably the only one that has gotten me cussed and my sanity called into question. Whether it's a good idea or not is up to the individual owner. We all have our opinions but this subject seems to cause people to attemp to change another's mind or just spew inflamitory comments. And I say this to no one in paticular. If we can keep it to "how to" rather than "should you" then maybe we can all get along lol...

bop11

Wow! Not one person mentioned the relief of pressure method that is talked about in the service manual. I wonder how many coated their back decks with fuel when they cut into the feed line.
Remove fuel pump fuse
Crank engine and run until stops due to no fuel
Engage starter for 3.0 seconds to ensure relief of any pressure
With ignition off replace fuse

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

these threads are funny. The "How dare you cut in a hole in the car!" people vs. the "Gonna fix it easily" people. I cut a trap door in my car. I don't regret it, and no one knows about it, unless I tell them. Should something happen to the fuel pump i can change it in about 45 minutes with little to no frustration. Even spliced a connector in the wiring harness so I can totally remove the fuel pump assembly if I need to. Would do it again if I have to.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I could change mine in a few hours dropping the rear and not cutting anything. How often are you changing fuel pumps?

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I agree. If you do it right you will not be changing things in the tank very often.

And for the record; some of you did a good job with the trap door. Like some other guy said it's your car so do what you want.

My problem with this is when people hack it up like the previous genius who owned my car did. He freaking cut open a hole in the shape of a U; pealed the metal back. and then pushed the metal back down and used that expanding foam to seal the massive gap that his hack job left behind.

So when I buy the car I have no idea about this hack job until I go to replace the fuel tank (which he ruined too). Low and behold I remove my tank and what is staring me in the face? I gigantic mess of foam and metal torn awfulness.

So I had to go and clean it all up and weld the area up and POR15 the whole area so it wouldn't rust. Thank god the area didn't rust out before I got to it! It turned a 2 hour fuel tank replacment job into a weekend project to fix an unprofessional hack job.

Again I'm not flaming any body on this forum; just the previous owner of my car who had no idea what in the hell he was doing. For example he used a cut up in-home lamp wire for a manual fan switch.

So please, don't flame me; because I'm not flaming you.

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

Consider this:

Driving down the road, and the fuel pump goes out right there. Engine dies, coast to the side of the road. Call the wife to come rescue me. With the trap door, I can change the fuel pump on the side of the road if I have to.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

If that is what concerns you then by all means, make it more accessible. I don't see having to change too many fuel pumps if you buy a quality pump and do a proper install.