JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I completed the front 1LE brake set-up last summer, so I had already swapped out the M/C and combo valve. For more info about that, check the following site:

http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html

Everything concerning the rear swap was straightforward. (I decided on the swap quite simply because the later brakes are better). Note the size difference in the rotors and then the design of the calipers and backing plates compared with the next picture. By the way, check farther below for a comparision of the 9- and 10-bolt PBR backing plates.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Reman loaded calipers were hit and miss. I first ordered from CarQuest, but several parts were missing. I finally successfully ordered from Advance Auto (P/N 164345 and 164346), who matched CarQuest's price. The calipers were complete right down to the carriers.

Check this link to see what Ed Miller says about 93-97 calipers and carriers (LT1):
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=250516

Check this link for info about "free travel": https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...free+%2Btravel

I ordered the four shims, two approx. .032 and two approx. .060 mm, from AndyZ28 at The easiest repair for your 3rd gen camaro / firebird sagging door problems. Note the three leftovers on the floor. The shims are used to center the carrier over the rotor. I only employed one, a .62, on the pass side. Without it, the rotor would have hung up on the carrier.

Note the 10-bolt backing plates, available from GM (P/N 10136853 and 10136854) as well as from the following sources:

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/90...rordriver.aspx

http://www.flynbye.com/

http://www.andyz28.com/catalog.htm

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I ordered the hard lines from Fine Lines at http://www.finelinesinc.com/ (P/N FRA89010M). The pass side line and bracket is the same as on the original disc brakes.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The driver's side line is different. The original went to the front of the axel and didn't require a hose. Note: The bracket here has been discontinuted by GM, but you can buy it from AndyZ28. If not, Classic Tube has a univeral that will fit, I think: Classic Tube - PreBent and Custom Stainless and OE Brake Lines and more... Go to Braided Hoses and then to the bottom of the page. Classic Industries also carries brake line brackets, P/N 393737. Classic Industries, Specialists in GM muscle car restoration and performance parts.
For a better view of the above, see p. 628 of the Classic Industries Cat. The brackets are L-shaped and include horseshoe clips.

The e-brake cables are from CarQuest (P/N BRK 8788, 1st design, 1434 mm--if the CarQuest cable is unavailable, I understand that the following is a replacement ACDELCO 18P1104). The original GM cable is discontinued (GM P/N 10164125). I had to use a Dremel to slightly enlarge the retangular slot on the caliper end of the cable to make it fit the parking brake lever. Two minutes work.

Ed Miller has added the following cables to his site:

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i199.html

Take note that installing the springs can be an issue. The link below simplifies the job:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...-did-yall.html

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The e-brake guides are available from GM (P/N 10285819 R and 10285818 L). They route the cables away from problems such as exhaust. If you use the original "S" clips, the guides are unnecessary.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The rotors are from CarQuest (P/N 55022). I used grade 8 bolts from CarQuest to mount the backing plates to the axel flanges--check the first link for appropriate sizes. Carrier to backing plate bolts are GM (P/N 10164181). The braided steel flex lines are from Earl's (P/N 28A190). Check the link:

Spohn Performance, Inc.

If price is a consideration, most automotive stores will have, or can order, the rubber version (for 89-92 rear with performance package or with 1LE):
Autozone: 78265 LH/77832 RH
O'Reilly: F119388 LH/F118547 RH
CarQuest: SP8904 LH/SP8577 RH

GM 1989 through 1992 F-Body PBR brake torque specifications (Many thanks to Marcello Perrone-Maple for the following info):

-Brake backing to axle flange plate bolts = 37 Ft/Lbs
-Caliper mounting bracket bolts to backing plate = 70 Ft/Lbs
-Upper caliper guide pin bolt = 25 Ft/Lbs
-Lower caliper guide pin bolt = 16 Ft/Lbs
-Parking brake pivot pin nut = 16 Ft/Lbs
-Caliper inlet fitting bolt = 30 Ft/Lbs
-Caliper bleeder valve = 80 In/Lbs

Everything works great.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Now I have the set. By the way, I also swapped out the GM c-clips (P/N 344171) and bearings. I replaced with off-set bearings from CarQuest (BGS RP5707). If the cross shaft bolt head is rounded, consider replacement from GM (P/N 14056196). A 5/16" six-point socket and a quarter-inch breaker bar works wonders. The new bolt will have a dab of red Loctite on it.

Addition info on axle, bearing, and seal removal/installation in the following link:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ing-axles.html

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

And fronts.

JamesC

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

That's some pretty nice brakes you have. Where is Belleview KS? How does it stop now?

Spdfrk1990

You know that is kinda funny cause im about to do the same thing . Im just waiting on my other rear caliper to come in. I work at napa so i ordered both sides 1 came with everything and the other came with nothing. The one that came with everything was from the manufactorer so i ordered the other side from there waiting on it should be here tuesday. I am doing mine on a 9 bolt rear tho i hope i dont need any shims i will also get the earl flex line and paint my calipers red. My 1 caliper i got from the manufactorer is real nice even came with the e-brake bracket and spring. I just wish i could buy a aluminum cover for my 9 bolt like your 10 bolt. I wanna know tho how does it stop cause i figured my rear and the rubber hoses was really holdin me back plus i think i still have some air in the lines. I am goin to buy a 1 man bleeder tho and silicone fluid and flush it all out this time. Also am buying new rear SS hard lines that are pre bent. Any get back to me and Nice brakes!!

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Gladstone, Belleville is in the middle of the state, straight north of Salina, thirteen miles from the Nebraska line--man, I'm in the boondocks! With both the front and rear brakes in place along with the Earl's lines, you can imagine that the car stops pretty quickly. Spdfrk, I've read (but have no personal experience) that 9-bolts don't require the shim. I think you'll be as I'm pleased with the outcome as I am.

JamesC

Spdfrk1990

Yeh i heard that rumor about the no shim with the 9 bolt also i cant wait to get mine ill take pix. I dunno how soon ill have it all done cause i might drop the tank also and get a new pump for the new engine while im at it.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

Wos, thats crazy. I just got done doing a similar project, except my car had the PBR's to being with. I rebuilt them myself after hearing how easy it is from EBmiller , I also added drilled slotted rotors.
I actually did run into the problem of the carrir hitting the rotors on both sides. But my problem was not that the rotor has to be moved, it was the carrier itself that had to be recentered. A couple of very thin washer, I forgot the size, worked perfectly and gave it the necessary clearance


Great job man, I image the swap from one type to another must have been trickier than what I encountered!

Will

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The rotor doesn't move (though there is a bit of endplay that needs to be taken into consideration). You're correct: the shim simply adjusts the carrier over the rotor.

JamesC

Spdfrk1990

Ive had a hella time getting the rear calipers complete i finially got them from a local store called smyth. They have the raybestas loaded calipers.

Spdfrk1990

What is the first and second design cables all about anyway.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

I just ordered the cables for my year camaro and had no trouble. Got them directly from GM. And I know everyone thinks NEW is better, as far as calipers go, but in reality, there is nothing wrong with your originals. Now keep in mind like $20 each for the cast iron fronts, sure, you might as well, but when rears are going in excess of 140 each, at dealer prices, why not just rebuild? The kits ran me less than 20 for both I believe and I have ZERO complaints. It could not have been more straightforward and I saved about 300 in the process. Not to mention I got the chance to take the apart fully, beadblast them, and paint them, with everything off, so nthing gets ruined. IMHO its just the way to go. I can think of alot of places to spend 300 bucks, rather than on brake calipers

Will

Spdfrk1990

Yeh o well i got them at 98 i have an account. I could of got the rebuild kit somewhere but i couldnt find one with everything and these calipers came off ebay i just wanted new ones. As far as the cables go for my year there are 2 different ones looks like every1 uses the first design.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The first and second designs were different lengths (for all I know there were other differences as well). At any rate the first design, the 1434 mm cable, is what you'll need. As I mention above, the GM cables are no longer available.

Rebuild from AutoZone (P/N 60196) or Advance Auto (P/N D352746) is cool if you already have calipers.

The caliper bleeder screw cap is still available from GM (P/N 14089150).

If you don't have the calipers to rebuild, the only route is new, reman at the prices vendors demand or the bone yards. I was lucky enough to find a 9-bolt with a bent axel tube. I bought everything from the flanges out as well as the hardlines and all brackets for a $100, then sold the 9-bolt backing plates and hardlines for $65, so I came up with what I needed at dirt cheap prices--had I rebuilt the calipers as well, my project would have been super cheap. Still, I'm very happy, not only with the outcome of the project, but also the overall cost.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Side by side the 9- and 10-bolt backing plates look very similiar. The new is the 10-bolt plate. The 9-bolt can be sourced from Ed Miller and AndyZ28 who carries a line of product to assist with conversion: The easiest repair for your 3rd gen camaro / firebird sagging door problems

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Note the bolt-pattern difference.

JamesC

Spdfrk1990

Im painting my rear calipers right now . Waiting on the paint to dry.

Spdfrk1990

Here it is kinda looks orangy from all the light but its not.

Spdfrk1990

1 more question where did you guys get your prebent lines. Ive seen them and i think they had said somethin like 86-92 disc all. Well dont some run a hard line strait to the caliper i dont want that.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I give the web site and P/N above (89-91 W/J65 Rear Disc Option (Requires hose at Left and Right). I think the listing should read 89-92. This product is a perfect fit. They're pictured above. Here are direct links, first for OEM material, then stainless steel:

http://finelinesinc.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id=3003

http://finelinesinc.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id=3004

JamesC

Spdfrk1990

Ok so i was going to get the lines from classic industries cause my dad had to order some stuff from there. All there catalog says tho is 86-91 all rea disc then they also have a heavy duty BW option. So is the borg warner T in a different spot or somethin and i dont even know if they are 2 hose. I called they didnt know lol. If i order the ones you got think they would find on the 9 bolt fine?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Yes, they will fit. I compared the old 9-bolt lines to the ones I ordered from Fine Lines, and they were a perfect match. As a matter of fact, the only difference in the 9- and 10-bolt rear ends, where PBR brakes are concerned, is the backing plates.

JamesC

Spdfrk1990

Thanx James ill just get them from fine lines and nice write up youve done. All this stuff helps and alot of people dont take the time.

helrazor

iTrader: (3)

Where do these shims need to go in back of the backing plate?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Check the second pic for location between the axel flange and backing plate.

JamesC

97ramsst

iTrader: (12)

JamesC...thanks for all the help so far. One more question for you...the PT#s you provided above to the rubber lines at Clissic Industries says on the order page that they are for 1988 FRONT Brake Hoses. Is this correct and the hoses interchange or is the part # wrong????

THANKS!

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

It's been awhile since I posted those part numbers, so they may have changed (I couldn't find anything on the web site for 1989-92 w/perf. pkg., 4 whl disc). The hoses you mention are incorrect. Note that I've edited above with new parts numbers from Autozone, O'Reilly, and CarQuest.

Thanks for the heads-up.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

If you do the swap, here's a link that will be helpful, as I'd certainly consider throwing in new bearings and seals:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ing-axles.html

JamesC

DeathMetalTony

Dam to bad you live far from me so you could help me with this convertion.

Tony.

mooch1

these are very helpful pics , not to mention most of the picks have nice new parts !..
i just finished a conversion like this...i had rear drums , so i got the brackets for my rear pbr calipers from ed miller....they bolt right on and it went pretty smooth for the whole conversion...the e-brake after many adjustments is ok but not great...and i seem to have a very hard brake pedal at lower rpms....

ace_

quick question if anyone is still on this topic? can you do this swap solo. as in without the front swap? i want to eliminate the constant leaking of the e brake that is so common with my 85 z28 rear discs.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Sure, that's what this link details. Note the info on parking brake cables and the combination valve in the following link:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-10-bolts.html

Leak? Sound more like a axle seal.

JamesC

zenish

i have an 83-88 disc brake rear end for parts.i assume i can't use the early parking brake cables[or anything else except the axles]with the 1990 to 1997 rear disc brakes.mine is a drum brake 10 bolt.i would use the disc brake axles but i have a 99 dollar slp take out posi i bought years ago that i want to install at the same time and it requires 28 spline axles which i have.if i use 1990-97 calipers and 93-97 rotors will my aftermarket 15"wheels fit?i assume that some of the camaros in 1990-92 came factory with 15"wheels.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Apparently 15" IROC wheels will fit (see post #4 of the link to follow), but whether after markets will bolt up, I'm uncertain.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...oc-wheels.html

JamesC

zenish

do the stainless lines bolt right in?other articles ive read said that stainless has to be flared at 37 degrees because its so hard and adapters are required.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Check the above site's FAQ for your answers.

JamesC

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Hey Guys I have a 1991 Chevy Camaro Z28 with the 25th anniversary tag. It has all stock L98 engine, Trans and suspension. I am trying to get rotors for this dame thing and everywhere ask if you have the 1LE performance package. I called the dealership and was told I do have the Z28 performance suspension Labeled 1FP or something like that. Nothing stating the 1LE like all the rotors ask for. How the heck can I tell if I have the 1LE? I have the VIN and all. Please help I need to get these rotors. Thanks

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Check for RPO 1LE. It's doubtful that you have a 1LE car. A typical four-wheel disc 91 would have 10.5" front rotors and iron Delco-Moraine calipers (the kind on all standard 82-92 cars). The rears would be the so-called 1LE's or performance package, 11.7" rotors and alum PBR calipers.

For pics for the 1LE/performance front and rears, check my vbGarage (lower left next to my online status).

JamesC

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Thank you for clearing that up. I do not see an RPO sticker in the arm rest like there should be. Would it be anywhere else. I do still have the Manual for the vehicle. Last I would like to have alum calipers and bigger rotors would it I need to do to convert? If there is to much to explain then don't bother just point me in the right direction. Thank you.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Rather than searching for the RPO's (might check the rear compartment), simply take a peek at the brakes. If they're dual-piston alum PBR's at the front and single-piston alum PBR's on the rear, you'll have 1LE brakes--I seriously doubt that that's the case.

As for converting, check the link in my first post, which details both. And, of course, you can use this thread for the rears.

JamesC

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

I Can't thank you enough. I am really pressed for time searching. Are you able to send me the link now? Cause the ones I check take me to other forms of no relevance. Or maybe I am just a dumb ***. Please send me the link now I am looking to order the calipers and the rotors. Thank you.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

There's far more to the conversion than calipers and rotors. Again see page #1, post #1 of this thread for the link.

JamesC

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Thank you I see this is for the Trans am. Will this work for a 91 camaro conversion? Thank you.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

To make it easier I will just buy the complete kit for the front: http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...e-Package.html

Only $850.00+ shipping not bad.

As for the rear of the vehicle. The Link do not appear to be sure friendly link it is for the front. Since mine is a 1991 is there and major mods needed to get the 1LE package there? Please explain. Thank you.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

I forgot to ask about the brake master cyl and booster I have the 91 would I need to go back to the one that supports the drum in the rear to handle this conversion. I could not make much sense of that in the link. Thank you.