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If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Hey folks! I've been a reader for a while, and a member and for a short while. However this is my first post. My apologies if this is one of those forums where I need to hit the newbie thread first. Just thought you might be interested in my players car. I don't have much history on the car but I do know it was never raced. As far as I can tell it appears to be a very clean tight original 1991 z-28 R7U car. So far it is the only 91 dark red with red interior package I have seen... And yes that is the 19 car in the back ground. Sadly it is not mine. It belongs to a good friend/business partner. I would love to get more info on the car if anyone has any. Thanks!
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by jaketorg
Hey folks! I've been a reader for a while, and a member and for a short while. However this is my first post. My apologies if this is one of those forums where I need to hit the newbie thread first. Just thought you might be interested in my players car. I don't have much history on the car but I do know it was never raced. As far as I can tell it appears to be a very clean tight original 1991 z-28 R7U car. So far it is the only 91 dark red with red interior package I have seen... And yes that is the 19 car in the back ground. Sadly it is not mine. It belongs to a good friend/business partner. I would love to get more info on the car if anyone has any. Thanks!
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
On your 1991 ... sequence 177308 ... yes it is a "unicorn" as they say.
There were 3 Dark Red cars (code 75U) made in the 1991 production run. 2 had black interiors, and one had the red interior (which is your car). For sure one of the rarer colors.
In 1991 and 1992 GM used lots of funky colors vs. plain white. Perhaps trying to showcase the cars.
Mark.
PS. On the 19 car ... I still have some original decals from back in the day from that car. Some #19's and such. Perhaps the current owner would like them?
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
I emailed the guy about that car, I wonder if he lowered the price because of my email. I told him that it did not have the 1LE RPO, but it had the A4U RPO which was the race car series car. Whether or not it has 1LE brakes (without the RPO) I do not know. As I have been told that in some cases the cars were stripped of their larger brakes after racing.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
1988 A4U came factory with the 1LE brake options. in 1987, A4U was over the counter brake upgrade. So this 88 should have them.
But it is true some cars were scavenged. My 88 TA did not have them when I got it. I've since found a 1988 set - which is unique being the first year. Slightly different casting and fitment.
Part of what makes an 88 valuable is the race car "stuff" which includes the 1LE brakes. Still a cool car regardless ... but I am bias. :-)
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Guys, I need some life-coaching... Started going through my 88 A4U. I'm curious as to restoration feedback from those who have completed/ing. My goal is to restore to stock, add a race seat (to save the stock driver, and because I can!) and decals (no cage, and I will not race this car). I can get AC Delco parts at cost and figured that's best as it would be as close to factory. The panels are rough and I think replacement panels would be way easier. Any thoughts on future value impacts on restoring the easy way with new panels and AC parts (panels all #'s match now) vs. trying to salvage original panels and upgrading replacement parts to performance? I don't (currently) plan on selling (one never knows) but it would be nice to know I'm spending money restoring with some value.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by pmand
Guys, I need some life-coaching... Started going through my 88 A4U. I'm curious as to restoration feedback from those who have completed/ing. My goal is to restore to stock, add a race seat (to save the stock driver, and because I can!) and decals (no cage, and I will not race this car). I can get AC Delco parts at cost and figured that's best as it would be as close to factory. The panels are rough and I think replacement panels would be way easier. Any thoughts on future value impacts on restoring the easy way with new panels and AC parts (panels all #'s match now) vs. trying to salvage original panels and upgrading replacement parts to performance? I don't (currently) plan on selling (one never knows) but it would be nice to know I'm spending money restoring with some value.
It seems that the current trend is 'preservation' in classic cars and historic race cars. Leaving the panels the way they are and how the car was raced is seen as cool. I think it is. A race car is supposed to have scars, every one of them tells a story. 'Restoring' the car and taking away that originality and patina could hurt the value, depending on who's interested. Some people want the car in as raced condition, some people like their cars perfect and as new. You said you don't want to sell it so really it's what you would like. I think replacing the panels with aftermarket and keeping the originals 'original' would be the way to go. Keep all the old parts original in case one day you decide to put it back to original. I am in the same predicament right now with my '91 R7U. I was going to repaint the valve covers etc. under the hood to make it look nice but I starting thinking that it's way cooler having the engine in its as raced condition with the yellow seal marks. Everything I replace I'm keeping, in case one day I decide to sell and originality is what a buyer is looking for. I'm replacing all the wear parts with acdelco as well, as close to original as possible.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Thanks for the feedback Koopsy. I am on the fence, it has some rust which needs to be checked on the rear but that's a good suggestions for the rest, I have some room to store the parts (Mark had previously suggested the same for the suspension takeoff parts). I agree with you on the engine bay, I've got some neat markings on the coil strut mounts with measurements and initials; not perfect but very unique.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by Koopsy
It seems that the current trend is 'preservation' in classic cars and historic race cars. Leaving the panels the way they are and how the car was raced is seen as cool. I think it is. A race car is supposed to have scars, every one of them tells a story. 'Restoring' the car and taking away that originality and patina could hurt the value, depending on who's interested. Some people want the car in as raced condition, some people like their cars perfect and as new. You said you don't want to sell it so really it's what you would like. I think replacing the panels with aftermarket and keeping the originals 'original' would be the way to go. Keep all the old parts original in case one day you decide to put it back to original. I am in the same predicament right now with my '91 R7U. I was going to repaint the valve covers etc. under the hood to make it look nice but I starting thinking that it's way cooler having the engine in its as raced condition with the yellow seal marks. Everything I replace I'm keeping, in case one day I decide to sell and originality is what a buyer is looking for. I'm replacing all the wear parts with acdelco as well, as close to original as possible.
Agree with Koopsy, fix or repair with a race car for sure, it's part of it history. As a collector car that's where the value is with today's marrket.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Well on my way home from a successful 4000km road trip. First stop was to pick up a 1988 A4U race engine complete with computer and race chip. Second was to pick up a 1991 R7U 1LE GM promo car, 130km hasn't seen much weather and in very good condition. 1 of 32 and one of 4 promo cars? Mark can you verify the promo cars in 1991?
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by Munyguy
Well on my way home from a successful 4000km road trip. First stop was to pick up a 1988 A4U race engine complete with computer and race chip. Second was to pick up a 1991 R7U 1LE GM promo car, 130km hasn't seen much weather and in very good condition. 1 of 32 and one of 4 promo cars? Mark can you verify the promo cars in 1991?
The car looks clean in the pictures.
The GM promo car is tough to prove without paperwork. I've found a number of people made tribute cars over the years, and even back in the day, a dealership would do the same with a spare car.
Things to check:
- If the paint is original, then look for old decals and signs of decals being removed.
- Check the PROM. A race prom would be a good sign.
- Being a promo car, it should have had a cage and exhaust installed for the "look". Verify the holes and such. Often I've seen the cars patched up after the cages were removed. On the race exhaust, there is a hanger bolt hole where the lower control arm bolts in.
- Being an eastern car ... check the vehicle registry to see who was the first to register it. After 1989, teams did not need to register and insure the cars in order to race. This makes it difficult to find out who owned them. Being a GM promo car, it would have been driven on the street is my guess. So the history should be there.
- GM Vintage will have the dealership who sold it. That might lead you somewhere.
Also something to keep in mind. Some promo cars were actually regular non-players cars. I have picture from 1989 that has cars all decaled up, cages, exhaust, but where regular cars. In later years, there were more spare cars, so genuine R7U's could have been used for promo cars (and for a spare in case someone wanted it).
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by pmand
Thanks for the feedback Koopsy. I am on the fence, it has some rust which needs to be checked on the rear but that's a good suggestions for the rest, I have some room to store the parts (Mark had previously suggested the same for the suspension takeoff parts). I agree with you on the engine bay, I've got some neat markings on the coil strut mounts with measurements and initials; not perfect but very unique.
My thoughts are that these cars are unique because they were raced. All the bumps and bruises make them what they are. And there is usually a story to them, and that is what people like to talk about. Try to preserve the "story".
You can carefully detail the car while preserving it. Consider if the tags on the coils, swaybars, etc. are missing, replace them. Maybe paint up those items like original. This won't take away from the car. It's just restoring an original part vs. replacing it.
Rust is always ugly unless you are preserving a barn find.
Bottom line - it's your car. Enjoy it the best way you want to!
I personally think the "story" is the magic behind a Player's car.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Congrats on your lastest purchases.
Do you have any other pics of the 1991 promo car that you can share?
Where did you find it? I have a friend who owned a 1991 promo car back in 1995. It was first owned by gm of canada and around late 1991 or ealry 1992, it was brought to dean myers chev olds and sold to its first public owner. My friend was the 2nd owner.
Originally Posted by Munyguy
Well on my way home from a successful 4000km road trip. First stop was to pick up a 1988 A4U race engine complete with computer and race chip. Second was to pick up a 1991 R7U 1LE GM promo car, 130km hasn't seen much weather and in very good condition. 1 of 32 and one of 4 promo cars? Mark can you verify the promo cars in 1991?
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by chevypower91
Congrats on your lastest purchases.
Do you have any other pics of the 1991 promo car that you can share?
Where did you find it? I have a friend who owned a 1991 promo car back in 1995. It was first owned by gm of canada and around late 1991 or ealry 1992, it was brought to dean myers chev olds and sold to its first public owner. My friend was the 2nd owner.
Car has lots of road grime so I'll get some better pictures up once I get it washed up in next couple of days. Car was registered to GM on 07/10/1991 and then registered to Walter Piccott Chev Olds in Charlottetown PEI on 05/25/1992. I picked up the car in PEI from the owner who bought it from the person that bought it from the Chev dealer. Doesn't seem to have race chip, I sent to Mark to have a look and no holes for a roll bar. Could have been a spare car and then driven by an executive in July??? odd that it was almost 1 year old when sold to PEI dealer. Back in those days executives usually kept for 6 months max so maybe it was used for other purposes?? I'll start digging into the background over the next few weeks and see what I can come up with, maybe I can see traces of decals or something in paint once its all cleaned.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by B4C5.7
I bet someone wants that VIN stamped block and would pay to get it......if it mathces their car.
He still has the car, took out the 305 race engine to put in a 350 as he drag races it. He knows its a Players Car but didn't seem to care. Flat black with tan interior, no other race parts other than it had 1LE brakes on it but he wouldn't sell them (I checked) little to no rust. Was a one only color 63U – MEDIUM TAUPE METALLIC according to Mark. Told him when he's done with the car to call me I would like 1st dibs!!
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
'88 #'s match Players W/1LE and he does not want the original block. Fascinating. "Not that there is anything wrong with that" Different strokes for diff folks BUT I want the original myself.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Hey guys, starting to go through my car and found something possibly interesting/really cool. Under the strut mounts on the passenger side there are extra holes drilled, maybe for a circle track set up? Or maybe it's just normal and not unique.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Hey all, Need some input again. Spent some time sleuthing today and think I might have figured out what car I have.. Thoughts? I'm thinking it may be Paul Gilgan (1988 SONY/Protec Camaro). Any comments or suggestions appreciated.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
I have an early style (cuts through dash) Players Challenge partial original Davenport cage. It's the roof bars that run from the main hoop down the A- pillar to floor. Also the connecting cross bar that runs along the top of windshield. $150 usd plus shipping
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Thanks to everyone who replied to post on my 1988 #99 SONY/ESSO Protec Camaro. Quick update (if anyone cares!) I've managed to find Paul Gilgan and we have e-mailed. He doesn't have any pictures or documentation anymore BUT... it's possible he has the in-car footage from Westwood in 1988! He's back in June and I am hoping to meet him then if possible. Turns out the car was tuned by Warren Rowley, news to me. I'm also chasing down a lead for John Simonsen as well. I've found a photographer who has provided me with some pictures of Player's cars (he attended all the Race City races from 1987-1990) but still no pictures of my car. If any of you have my car in pictures (even in the background) I'd love to chat... Thanks guys.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by pmand
Thanks to everyone who replied to post on my 1988 #99 SONY/ESSO Protec Camaro. Quick update (if anyone cares!) I've managed to find Paul Gilgan and we have e-mailed. He doesn't have any pictures or documentation anymore BUT... it's possible he has the in-car footage from Westwood in 1988! He's back in June and I am hoping to meet him then if possible. Turns out the car was tuned by Warren Rowley, news to me. I'm also chasing down a lead for John Simonsen as well. I've found a photographer who has provided me with some pictures of Player's cars (he attended all the Race City races from 1987-1990) but still no pictures of my car. If any of you have my car in pictures (even in the background) I'd love to chat... Thanks guys.
I have a similar request. My youngest boy has bought the number 75 car owned and driven by Alan Sharpe. It is an 86 Camaro and was raced until 1989 I believe. My son has the contact info for Mr. Sharpe and his son and I am sure he will do so but if anyone has photos of the #75 car, they would be appreciated!! Thank You in advance, Tom
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
I'm not sure if this has been posted here or not: http://www.autocourse.ca/index.php?file=results.html
Qualifying and finishing results from the series by year. I thought it was really cool to see how your car (driver) did throughout its career.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by pmand
Thanks to everyone who replied to post on my 1988 #99 SONY/ESSO Protec Camaro. Quick update (if anyone cares!) I've managed to find Paul Gilgan and we have e-mailed. He doesn't have any pictures or documentation anymore BUT... it's possible he has the in-car footage from Westwood in 1988! He's back in June and I am hoping to meet him then if possible. Turns out the car was tuned by Warren Rowley, news to me. I'm also chasing down a lead for John Simonsen as well. I've found a photographer who has provided me with some pictures of Player's cars (he attended all the Race City races from 1987-1990) but still no pictures of my car. If any of you have my car in pictures (even in the background) I'd love to chat... Thanks guys.
I have slide from Race City I will have to go through.
Also check the players race videos on you tube. There are a few from 1988.
(scroll to 7:15 to see your car)
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Originally Posted by pmand
Thanks Mark! Can't wait to see what you find. I grabbed a couple stills from the video, thanks again for posting those...
Paul
I checked my slide ... all from 87. But I did find some proofs from 88 (black and white) that were the same one as that color one I posted. email me and I will send you a scan of them.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
Sharing some developments ...
For years I wanted to document what was different in the Players Race PROM as compared to a stock PROM. As things have worked out ... that goal has come true (A hats off to a fellow member Munyguy who help filled in one of the missing years)! I've finished mapping out the 87/88 and the 89. Next is to work on the 91/92.
Taking this one step further ... I am going to do up a small batch of reproductions. These will be exact replications of the race "code" used for the specific year. Along with each will be a letter that documents where the original source code came from, and then a breakdown of what was unique in that year. It's been cryptic to explain in simple terms, but I've done my best to provide some insight into the changes. For the most part, the air/fuel mapping is more precisely matched to the blueprinted engines, as well as some driver aids (shift light, fuel cut-off).
The adapters are the ever popular Craig Moates edition. They work extremely well. I've used them in a number of projects with zero issues. The decals are my basic attempt to catalog the batch as well provide a historical appearance. The stock one simply had yellow paint - but since that doesn't mean much to anyone, the decal felt like the right approach.
Next steps are to test run each versions in a real car and make sure they work as expected.
Re: If you have a Players Challenge Car, please post here. (RPO- A4U, 1LE or R7U)
It's been quite an endeavor to compare a stock PROM and the race PROM. There are sooooo many versions of a stock PROM, it was difficult to find the best one to compare. Consider ... in the 92 version, if I use the "best" one to compare, there are about 350 values that are different ranging from spark, fuel, throttle, and so on. If I use a different PROM, that can jump up to 600 values ... but what is happening here is that there are tons of differences between the two stock ones. Not what people care about. When I use the best stock one (call it the highest performance stock version), then it drops down to those highlights we care about. For example in one case, the spark advance is nearly identical except for 2 degree removed at a certain point.
The 92 have more data to sift through ... but I should have it mapped out shortly.
11-29-2016, 12:59 PM
