Last of a Breed

I'm just wondering exactly what the 1LE package was on third gens, what options came with them, and the value one would command? Thanks

Kevin

Air_Adam

The 1LE package was a road racing package for the IROC and Z28 Camaros. They are VERY rare and highly sought after cars.

These are a few of the things the 1LE cars came with:

- Bigger brakes specific to the 1LE
- Aluminum driveshaft
- Specially modified and larger gas tank
- A/C delete
- Bigger, hollow swaybars (same as WS6 Firebird)
- Same rear gears as G92-optioned cars (could be wrong about this one)
- Only engines available were the 5.7/245hp with auto and 5.0/230hp with 5 speed.

nick418

yeah i herd only 60 somthin 1Le were made in 1990 and in 1991 470 somthin were made

1Le is very rare

97-1LE

Go here http://www.1le.net/ for info on the 1LE's 3rd and 4th gen Camaro's and Firebirds.

Mine is one of 48 for 97, and 1 of 9 with A4 transmission

85 T/A WS6

......Also it was not a Camaro exclusive.

cam-

Pontiac versions were produced in less numbers too Is that the BBQ I smell?

Last of a Breed

Ok thanks alot guys. Would there be a way to determine if it's a true 1LE from the VIN # or just basically at the RPO codes on the door?

cam-

look in the glove box for the RPO sheet.

nick418

vin wont tell you, look inside your console and there be a lil RPO Code sheet sticker on to the side and theres all these 3 diff 3 digit codes on ther. If it says 1LE, then you have an 1LE


1LE : PERFORMANCE PACKAGE COMPONENTS

RB83L69

"Rare" is one thing; "value" is quite another.

A thing is only worth what the current owner and a prospective owner agree on. Unfortunately, not many people know about the 1LE option, and not many of those really care very much. So I seriously doubt that it will make a really significant difference in the long-term "value" of such a car. You'd be REALLY lucky if you could reliably get a 25% boost in your car's sale price over an otherwise identical car without it.

Enjoy it, you've got a special car that's pretty much all the 3rd gen you could possibly get; but don't bet on it being worth a fortune or anything.

cam-

I never heard of a Yenko until they were worth huge coin either. Thats the whole point of a 1LE is that not many people know of them and that is precisely what makes them so valuable. If everyone new about them there would have been many thousands sold not a mere handful. Look at the Grand Nationals... The smartest marketing move GM made was anouncing that production was ending at the end of 85... they had so many orders they built them for two more years. The whole allure and mystery of the 1LE's existence and how they came to be is a fantastic tale that is destined to be one of the few true prize collectables from the 80's. There are very few cars that interest collectors that everyone knows about Most of the older guys here laugh at how the 57 Chevy was a cheesy car in 1957 and had antiquated style. The only reason they sold so many was cause they were cheap just like a Cavalier is today. The way some of them describe it would be just like dreaming of fifty years from now when everyone wants a 97 Sunfire oohhh! Hard to believe but very possible. The 1LE is one of the few real collectable cars produced in the 80's and its value is only going in one direction

Last of a Breed

What about the 90's 1LE?

RB83L69

The reason the 57 Chevy is so popular today has nothing to do with the car itself.... it's because it stands as a symbol of a time and an attitude that people who were there, and even some who weren't, can identify with. You're exactly right about the car in its day; it was the mass-produced, disposable, everybody has one, can't tell which one is yours in the grocery store parking lot kind of car; about like a white Accord or a maroon Camry today. Kids were embarrassed when their mom came to school and picked them up in one, because it was so commonplace.

I have to disagree about "collector" cars that nobody knows about. What are the most "collectible" cars around today? Think about it for a minute.... GTO, Chevelle SS, Shelby GT, Hemi 'Cuda, VW convertible, 57 T-bird..... Are those "collectible" because nobody knows about them? THOSE are good examples of "collectible" cars; study them, and you'll understand "collectible" cars alot better. Unfortunately, in reality rather than somebody's dreams, 3rd gen cars don't fit in that category. Anybody that buys one (or pays for one) based on that kind of thinking, is suffering from an expensive delusion.

The fact that nobody knows (or cares) about 1LE cars guarantees that their value will never approach that sort of thing. It doesn't symbolize an age (57 Chevy), it didn't grab the imagination of the general public and excite us (GTO or Super Bee), it isn't the car we all had when we were kids (67-8-9 Camaro, 65-70 Mustang, VW bug, etc.), it doesn't have historical and top-of-the-line cachet (Corvette), and so on. It's a damn shame, but it's also reality. Just the truth, nothing but the truth, stripped of enthusiast starry-eyed romanticism. They were the best of their kind when they were built, and that makes them valuable to a driver and fun to use; but they are of no "collector" interest at all. Look at the Players cars; even those aren't worth what they were new, let alone multiples of their original sale price, like an early 60s Vette or something. Even the Turbo TAs, probably the most "collectible" 3rd gen, aren't getting their asking prices, which are way less than half of what a new (nearly new that is) equivalent can be had for.

Incidentally, those of us who were there when tey were new, had heard of Yenko cars at the time. That's the same as a Saleen or SLP today. Not mass-market, but certainly not an obscure secret either. I guess you would have had to be there.

Like I said, enjoy the one you've got, because it's a fine car, and I wish I had one (but not bad enough to go out and spend $5000 to buy one); but don't be expecting some kind of financial reward for owning it. You might as well take your money and go buy a CD at 1.8% if you're looking for a way to make your money grow, because even that low-grade "investment" will see its value will go up far faster than the car's.

nick418

werent the 90 Iroc 1Les the rarest? I mean they made only 34,000 F bods that yr. ANd 60 somthin 1Le's.

cam-

I agree completely that the 57 is an automotive icon of that generation but it wasn't regarded as such then. I cannot see how you don't think the third gen is not an icon of the 80's? I have never met any adult that does not know what an IROC is regardless of how minimal their automotive knowledge may be or their age. To accuse someone of being delusional for speculating on the value and collectability of these cars is pretty lame man. I know well enough of what cars are worth today and whats "hot" and whats not. What about the Model A? Certainly an icon of its era but the value has been dropping fast on those cars the last ten years cause they are not in fashion right now and the old are dying off. One of my closest friends is president of the Model A club of Canada so this is informed not jibber jabber.

The fact remains that neither you nor I can acurately predict the future and its trends and value of this or that. However history has shown that the less common something is and the more legend behind it the more value it will generate. Hopefully we will both get to see who is right about the 1LE in ten or twenty years

nick418

Hopefully we will both get to see who is right about the 1LE in ten or twenty years


In 20 yrs both 1le and all 3rd gens are gonna be antiques (price will go up) in 20 yrs my 1991 Z28 will 34 yrs old! And thats the second last yr made of the 3rd gen. An 82 f body will be over 40 yrs of age. The thing is that not only the 1Les are gonna get good respect, All third gens will , L98s, 305 TPi, 305 TBI, CFI, 2.8, 3.1 V6s all of em are gonna be classics. Rem third gens are gettim more rarer when the yrs pass.

Air_Adam

The rarest 1LE was '87 I think... only 4 made.

Air_Adam

Just a thought on what RB said earlier... the 1LE cars are only really known by "insiders"... people who do this stuff alot, like us, and not just the average bloke on the street.

But it was the same way with some of the other muscle cars of the past too... people didn't really know about them, untill out of nowhere they started gaining in value like mad. A good example was the COPO Camaros and Chevelles. They were something that so few people knew about that even GM didn't know they were building them at the time! And people didn't know or care untill the muscle car craze of the late '80s.

The way it looks to me, the 1LE is basically the 3rdgen equivalent of the old COPO cars. They weren't designed for the street, they were meant for the track. They were also a little-publicized option, like the COPO, so very few people know what a 1LE is unless they are 'in the loop' like us.

Just my $0.02

steven90GTA

I don't try to compare my cars with the 70 Chevelle SS LS6:hail: , or GTO's, they are symbols of a different time and really can't be compared to our cars, but as time goes on there will be a collector market for our cars as well, I got my car in 2002 and I have noticed since then that they are getting harder to find and more expensive, there are people paying upwards of $6000 for a 1991 GTA with peeling paint and 120,000 miles, I got lucky with mine only paid $2500(guy needed money for move, quick) for my GTA new paint 350 and leather and 101,000 miles, but from what I have heard people around here talking that is a pretty good deal and most are a lot more$

Air_Adam

I'm not... those are the well known muscle cars. I'm talking about the lesser known ones (COPO 427 Camaros and Chevelles from '68 and '69) that were known only to 'insiders' untill prices just went bonkers in the late '80s.

Its the same situation with the 1LE cars, only a different era.

DJP87Z28

Don't hold your breath, for 3rd gen cars to increase in value. No matter what options they had. Only ones, 20yrs from this date worth any money will be cars with a COMPLETE ground up restoration, not stock driven cars.

97-1LE

Here are your 1LE Production Numbers

Chevrolet

Year Model Produced
1988 Camaro IROC Z 1LE 4
1989 Camaro IROC Z 1LE 111
1990 Camaro IROC Z 1LE 62
1991 Camaro Z28 1LE 478
1992 Camaro Z28 1LE 705
1993 Camaro Z28 1LE 19
1994 Camaro Z28 1LE 135
1995 Camaro Z28 1LE 106
1996 Camaro Z28 1LE 55
1997 Camaro Z28 1LE 48
1998 Camaro Z28 1LE 129
1999 Camaro Z28 1LE 74
2000 Camaro Z28 1LE 0 (not available)
2001 Camaro SS 1LE 80 ( SLP Option)



Pontiac


Year Model Produced

1988 T/A 1LE 3
1989 T/A 1LE 26
1990 T/A 1LE 4
1991 Formula 1LE 46
1991 T/A 1LE 62
1992 Formula 1LE 22
1992 T/A 1LE 9
1993 Formula 1LE 3
1994 Formula 1LE 0
1995 Formula 1LE 2
1996 Formula 1LE 10
1997 Formula 1LE 14
1998 Formula 1LE 14
1999 Formula 1LE 20
2000 Formula 1LE 0 (not Available)
2001 Firehawk 1LE 60 (SLP Option)


As you can see by the numbers, the Pontiac numbers are more rare than the Chevrolet.

The 3rd and 4th gen Camaros could be had with manual or auto trans. 3rd Gen Firebirds could be Manual or Auto. 4th gen were 6 speed only and the only way to get the 1LE package was to order the WS6 package and add the 1LE to that. The only exception to that is when SLP made the 1LE package available to the Firehawks in 2001 & 2002

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Seriously, it gets me that so many are not following what some of these cars are going for these days in nice condition. Or how some do not see what they'll be worth or how they'll be looked at years from now. Out of touch doesn't begin to describe it. People thought the same thing about the cars from the 60's/70's at one time too. Matter of fact, they thought it a few times over because of the economy and gas issues years ago. But what happened? Time and desirablilty will do it everytime.

A 1LE with lower miles is worth a good amount of money. If the car is mint, getting a figure that starts with double digits out of someone is easy, as I've seen it done before. (even for non-1LE mint/lower mile L98 IROC's/Z28's) I suggest searching some used car sites to see for yourselves that they've been and are increasing in value.

cam-

:hail:

Another believer :werd:

There is no doubt that for most cars to increase in value they must be in cherry condition and as stock original as possible but that rule applies to all cars. Modified non original cars never sell for what they cost never mind appreciate in value unless Boyd or Foose or? built them. But who in their right mind would butcher a 1LE Here I was only refering to original non butchered originals, restorable, or especially clean unmolested orignals. I am not trying to say that the 1LE cars will be going up in value enough to convince a bay street trader to start snapping them up as an investment. I just feel its very unlikely that 1LE third gens are going to drop in value anymore making them a great buy for someone looking for a third gen to enjoy. They have hit bottom and its buy time cause they are going up now not down. How much? Well we will all have to wait and see cause there is only one thing that dictates collector car price and thats supply and demand. The 1LE supply is low that part we know is certain. Demand? Hey your guess is as good as mine but I need no convincing

DJP87Z28

Unless you are a actual Owner of one of these car, you are interested in the value. But are you the average 3rd gen guy ready to go out and pay double figues now?? Myself as a orgingal owner of 1987 IROC-Z could care less. I have yet to see a 3rd Gen car on the Barrett-Jackson auction.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

There's been a few. Matter of fact there was a car just like I want on there. (which is basically like yours) It had 7-10,000 original miles, not sure, and it went for either $15,400 or $18,000. Something like that. Our Mod SM would know better. Look around. I've been watching these cars for almost 5 years now. Searching for a specific car constantly keeps you informed on it.

cam-

There was a Players car go through Barrett jackson a couple years ago too if memory serves. Fetched a high bid of around 10k but didn't sell.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

the 1le web site stated that the first years production numbers are unknown and can only be based on reported cars. also some of the 88 cars had a/c and the standard iron calipers. (to me this is a rare combo)

Irocbanshee

I have noticed on KBB that my IROC has grown in value in the last year or two. Not sure why....I first bought it for $1500. It is simply an '86 IROC Z-28. 305 TPI, 700r4, t-tops, all power. My dream car. Needs paint and needs some repairs here & there...otherwise was a good running car. At the time I purchased it, KBB had it listed around $1750. Last time I checked it has gone up to around close to the 2k range. Granted a small increase, but it is still something.

I bought this car planning not to butcher anything on it. I will be doing many upgrades & mods, but someday it will get a full restoration from ground up with all OEM parts to take it to absolute original condition.

I believe there are cars that are going to gain value over time. I believe the 1LE is one car that will do it. As it has been said, as long as someone out there will pay it, then the value is there. You may not agree that a mint 1LE is worth much, but to another it may be solid gold!

That is my .02.

scottmoyer

Wasn't following this until now...

Barrett-Jackson sold 2 1987 IROC-Zs recently. One sold for $15,300 and the other for $18,300. The fact that this was an auction at 2 different parts of the country and at different times, shows the range these cars could be bringing today. They were both low mile originals.

A 1991 B4C sold for $21,500, and three 1991 1LE cars bid over $15k.

The 1985 Live-Aid IROC-Z sold for $20k, and there are others that were bid up but never sold.

These are all original, low mile cars. There are others that have sold for more, but they were completely modified as race cars or drag cars.

Unfortunately for the Pontiac guys, the only Firebirds sold at Barrett Jackson were the 91-92 Firehawks, the 89 TTA and the original 82 KITT car that is on eBay now. All except for 1 of the TTAs sold for over $20k.

Teal91rs

Im gona state one thing. In 1990 My father bought a 1969 Z/28 for a whoping 4000 dollars.. Mind you this is a true Z/28 with a rebuilt LS6 out of a 1971 Chvelle built and dynoed at 500hp and 600 foot pounds of torque. again 4000 dollars. you couldnt prodict that this car is now worth over the 15k mark now could you? i leave it at that

Mark_ZZ3

I agree that was the case in 1990, but back then the a 1969 Z28 was still faster than most production street cars. The problem with the 1LE cars is that the newer F-bodies are faster and handle just as well or better. So your not buying a "better" car, you buying a piece of history.

I certainly think the 1LE's will go up in price. Just look at the 1981 Z28 cars. They are starting to become collectable.

All in good time ... and trust me I hope that is the case. My 87&88 "player's cars" are just like a 1LE (predecessors). So I am hoping the Trams Am racing series will command a few more dollars than a stock car.

Mark.

DJP87Z28

Dream on and keep dreaming.... To make a collector's car you have to have a sucker to buy it, and they have not been born yet. So just drive it now and forget about saving any 3rd Gen car.:lala: :lala: One or two cars being sold for a high price does not make them all collectable, they just found that sucker.

cam-

DJP87Z28

One of the very young dreamers or a future Sucker.

cam-

As Mark Twain once said...

"Its better to stand silent and look like a fool then to open your mouth and prove it"

Thanks DJP. you the man :hail:

scottmoyer

Let's get back on topic. No flaming or derogatory statements needed.

People don't always buy cars or other collectibles because of the value. It's the idea of having what is in demand and having it in nice condition.

It's nice to know that my car is becoming valuable, but it's not for sale. So DJP's comment, "To make a collector's car you have to have a sucker to buy it, and they have not been born yet" is not valid. The people buying up the 69 Yenkos and ZL1s are not buying them for resale. They are buying them to say they have what others wish they could have. That's what makes it a collectible.

There are a lot of people out there interested in collecting 3rd gens. Once the supply of limited production, clean, low mile, original cars starts getting scarce, the $$ goes up. I don't know what age DJP is, but I'm 35 and the 3rd gen cars along with the other 80s vintage cars (442, GN, TTA, Monte SS, etc) were out of reach at 16 and 17 for me. We are the buyers of the low mile original cars, because we couldn't afford it back then. These are not our only cars as they are for some of the younger crowd. This is the same thing that happened to the 1st gen cars. The people buying them either had one back then and want to buy another or they couldn't afford it then and can now. That creates a demand which causes prices to soar.

Just keep watching the value increase. The 70s didn't produce too much power so that generation of cars is not in demand. The 80s was the return to power and performance, so the value will increase as I keep looking for more toys!!!

DJP87Z28

Scottmoyer
I am a lot older then you ( original owner of 87 Camaro IROC-Z) and my first true performance car was a new split window 63 Corvette. So save your so called rare cars for some sucker to buy them. Increases in prices of 3rd gen cars is a oxymoron.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

You are going to be in for a nice surprise some day. If they've already increased in value, (which they have, as I know from searching for one like I want for almost 5 years now, that in itself should say something BTW) what do you think is going to keep happening to these cars?? I HAS to. There is NO choice. The more they get up there the more the prices will go up, there's no way to stop it. That's the way it goes everytime, like it or not. No one ever thought that would happen to 60's/70's muscle. Time to stop denying and look around.

BTW, do you even know yourself, that you own a car that is 12,105 of a 137,760 total production, and that's out of 38,889 IROC-Z's? Do you know that 87 was a year for a number of firsts, lasts, and onlys? As time goes by people get more and more interested and intrigued by those kinds of things, and it begins to matter to them. If you really wanted to try and figure things out you car is alot rarer than you think by the numbers. Thirds are not always going to be somewhat plentiful, they barely are now in mint condition and when they are they sell for higher prices than most imagine. They were the most popular thing around when they were new and they'll always stay popular, like early muscle did. (even when they weren't worth anything) A car being desirable is sometimes better than or equal to something being collectable. Think about it.

Klortho

Barrett-Jackson = car sales to people who have more money than they know what to do with it. I doubt very seriously that if a person who buys a car off of there will even drive it enough to actually enjoy the car.

What's the use of having a car that sits in a garage, you go in and look at it every now and then and then leave.

DJP87Z28

Yes, and my Estate can sell it.:lala: :lala:

scottmoyer

Well, based on the prices being offered for cars at Barrett-Jackson, the standard is being set for cars' value. It's not just any auction either. The collector insurance companies and other collectors base their pricing on what happens at BJ. Appraisers also set their prices based on what the cars sell for at elite auctions. They set the standard for the "high" price a car is worth. Autotrader and eBay set the pricing for low to mid priced cars.

Not all cars increase in value because of their age, but Camaros have been hot since day one and is in the top 5 most recognized nameplates in the auto industry. It's inevitable that the car will increase purely based on it's heritage.

Years ago, I was looking for a 70 Cuda. When looking at collector price guides, the price set for a 70 Hemi Cuda convertible referenced a recent auction sale of $240k. There was no low, medium or high price set. It just referenced the recent auction sale. The value of collectibles is merely based on what others have paid. Right now, the BJ auction established the prices that people are willing to pay for these cars.

Klortho

People are willing to pay for these cars, but do they really appreciate them or are they buying them to just say "hey, look I own a 1989 Iroc 350 with 2000 miles on it" The car will never see the road, if it's taken to car shows, it will be trailered there, then trailered back home. Barrett-Jackson sales are not for your common every day middle class person.

In 2000 I took my Mustang to a local mustang show, I saw this black 1967 Mustang Shelby Cobra GT500KR convertable roll into a spot. I went over and talked to the guy and asked him how he got it there since I didn't see a truck and trailer pull up, he said he drove it. This car was so clean, you could eat off the undercarrage. Remember, this is a car that has a worth of over 100k.

His words, which speaks for alot of car owners

"why own it if you can't drive it afraid you will scratch it up or break something"

The 3rd gens are not worth the money that people are asking for them, I'm sorry if this upsets alot of you but it's the truth.

scottmoyer

I don't uderstand why so many people think that because you have a low mile original car that it'll just sit in the garage and never be driven. There are many 60s muscle cars that were bought in the 90s with very low miles. They were stored due to military or other reasons. Not because they would be worth something some day. The same thing applies here. Just because the car has low miles on it doesn't mean it was bought solely for the garage or a trailer.

My car is a perfect example. I bought it from a 19 year old whose mother just died. It was her car and she was sick for many years with cancer. The car was her enjoyment. When she passed away, the kid sold the car and I got lucky. Does my car sit in the garage? yes! Do I drive and enjoy it? yes! Have I driven it cross country to shows? yes! kandied92z can verify that!! Has it been trailered to shows? yes! why? because I could!! I was also able to keep the wear and tear, road rash and potential accidents to a minimum that way. Once at the shows, I drive the car on rallys, to restaraunts, cruises, etc. I've had the car for 4 years now and have enjoyed it quite a bit.

I now have that "new" 87 IROC-Z that cost $21k in 87 that I couldn't afford back then. It's still my "new"car.

Nobody ever said that the cars are being bought today and being stored and not driven. A new member here, nick412 I think, has a low mile car and I bet he's driving it. There's also another new member whose screen name is 87 B4Z xxx,(I can't remember) that has a low mile 87 and I know he drives his around. They aren't daily drivers, but they are driven and enjoyed!!!

DJP87Z28

1987 Camaro IROC-Z did not cost 21K, mine was out the door for $15,875 and I still have it and drive it daily. Another 275 miles and I too will have a low mileage car again.

scottmoyer

Mine did!!!

DJP87Z28

Since you didn't buy it new or are the original owner , the out the door costs are unknow to you. But nice paperwork.

scottmoyer

I actually do have the original bill of sale with the finance company, account info and total amount loaned. The car was purchased for not much less than the sticker. There was also no trade in. My car is 100% fully documented right down to each insurance renewal, oil change receipt and state license plate tab renewals.

The cassette that came with the Bose system is still in the unopened box it came in!

Klortho

The big thing is, 75% of the people who are looking at 3rd gens are not going to pay more than going price for a car to own one.

You said it would keep wear and tear down on the car, it's worse on a car not to drive it regularly than it is to not drive it at all.

I have a 1986 Firebird, was bought in 1987 with 23k miles on it. Currently it has 213k on it, but the motor went up in it. Up until that point, the car still turned heads and had people talking to me about it.

Just because you drive a car every day doesn't mean you can't keep it looking as good as the ones with 2k miles and trailered everywhere.

It's not worth having a car that you don't drive every day or maybe 2-3 days a week instead of 4-5 times a year. You won't fully enjoy it until then.

Has the car even saw the drag strip?

We had someone who took a '93 Cobra, 6k miles and took it down the strip several times without a second thought, the reason why? It was fun.

scottmoyer

Some of you aren't reading everything that's being written here. I said I drive the car after I get it where its going, but I really don't want to drive the car 800 miles each way to a show. I have done it and I enjoyed it, but the constant in and out on a regular basis wears out the carpet and the seats. I'm thinking of driving to Bowling Green in Sept. I would rather trailer the car, but I don't have my trailer anymore or the truck for that matter. Many of you guys with mileage on their cars will attest that the side bolsters wear out. In the theme of keeping the car original, fewer replaced parts is required. The wear and tear also includes stone chips, scratches, chips in the glass, etc. Driving the car on the weekends for 20-30 miles keeps it tight and enjoyable.

My car has not seen the dragstrip because I have not had the availability to do so. I bought the car in Minneapolis and the closest track was in Iowa. Not interested in that trip. Since I've been in Orlando, my schedule hasn't allowed for me to get to SpeedWorld. I will though. I drive my car like it was meant to be. I've done doughnuts, burnouts and had the thing up to 118mph. No interest in going faster. I think I've burned thru 10k miles of tires in 4k miles.

Nobody can say that my car is a trailer queen or a garage queen. It sits in the garage more than I want because I don't have the time to take it out. I won't drive it to work because of the environment I'm in.