READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
09-19-2015, 10:43 PM
#501
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Car: 92 Camaro RS
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Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 10bolt w3.42 Torsen
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I know you guys are the experts in this area, but I seen karen63 post this question in the regional forums. Trying to be helpful I posted this there and recommended them to post the question in this section. Here is what I posted in the other thread.
All I can tell you is that according to the Camaro White Book, '90, '91, and '92 says RPO CC1 (removable roof panels) were not available with RPO G92 performance axle, or with the combination of Z28 coupe and 5 speed manual transmission.
1FP87 - 12,452 Z28's
CC1 - 38,836 t-top cars
LB9 - 9,996 305 TPI (Z28 base engine)
MX0 - 85,321 automatic with overdrive
All I can tell you is that according to the Camaro White Book, '90, '91, and '92 says RPO CC1 (removable roof panels) were not available with RPO G92 performance axle, or with the combination of Z28 coupe and 5 speed manual transmission.
1FP87 - 12,452 Z28's
CC1 - 38,836 t-top cars
LB9 - 9,996 305 TPI (Z28 base engine)
MX0 - 85,321 automatic with overdrive
09-20-2015, 01:36 AM
#502
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Running some figures through Compnine it does show 0 for 1990-1992 CC1 and G92.
But it does show the following for the Z28, 5Speed and CC1:
1992 CC1, Z28, MM5 = 222 (18 are Z49 Canadian Export)
1991 CC1, Z28, MM5 = 55 (0 Canada)
1990 CC1, Z28, MM5 = 0
All I can tell you is that according to the Camaro White Book, '90, '91, and '92 says RPO CC1 (removable roof panels) were not available with RPO G92 performance axle, or with the combination of Z28 coupe and 5 speed manual transmission.
1FP87 - 12,452 Z28's
CC1 - 38,836 t-top cars
LB9 - 9,996 305 TPI (Z28 base engine)
MX0 - 85,321 automatic with overdrive
But it does show the following for the Z28, 5Speed and CC1:
1992 CC1, Z28, MM5 = 222 (18 are Z49 Canadian Export)
1991 CC1, Z28, MM5 = 55 (0 Canada)
1990 CC1, Z28, MM5 = 0
All I can tell you is that according to the Camaro White Book, '90, '91, and '92 says RPO CC1 (removable roof panels) were not available with RPO G92 performance axle, or with the combination of Z28 coupe and 5 speed manual transmission.
1FP87 - 12,452 Z28's
CC1 - 38,836 t-top cars
LB9 - 9,996 305 TPI (Z28 base engine)
MX0 - 85,321 automatic with overdrive
11-01-2015, 06:25 PM
#503
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Car: trans am 1983
Engine: 305 4bbl
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
hi i have a 1983 trans am 305(lg4) 5 speed,3;73 non posi.i have the built sheet of the car.but my car have the ram air systeme like the l69 ho,but it seem to be original on my car no modification at all.my question does gm made the lg4 with the ram air systeme
11-01-2015, 08:57 PM
#505
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Howdy all,
So I have an IROC that has RPO codes for what appears to be a "FLEET VEHICLE" with customer ordered options. So when a customer orders a car with unique options, like radio delete but with an antenna, does it make it any more desirable? Mine also has the overhead counsel, but I am missing the CAMARO FLASHLIGHT, or at least that is what the listing on EBAY indicated when I found it. Has anyone heard of this flashlight? I believe it fits in the pocket in the overhead councel
11-01-2015, 09:02 PM
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Car: 1985 Camaro Z28 IROC
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Axle/Gears: GU6=3.42
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
11-02-2015, 08:08 AM
#507
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
John
11-02-2015, 09:40 AM
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Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 355 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 10 Bolt.Posi-3.73s
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I had an 82 Z28 Pace car that also had the dual muffler setup from the factory. Sounded very nice too. Have never seen another like it before or since. Ive only saw the early Third Gen LG4 cars with 3.23 gears, never with 3.73s but not saying they didn't get em.
11-02-2015, 09:45 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
It does show this air cleaner setup for the 83 Tran Am LG4 Last edited by dmccain; 11-02-2015 at 09:48 AM. Reason: .
11-02-2015, 02:44 PM
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Car: trans am 1983
Engine: 305 4bbl
Transmission: 5 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
thanks guy you really help me for that one.in my built sheet my car came with the 3;73 non posi and the wy6 special performance package and i have the dual muffler set up too.i dont know if gm do alot of this car with this set up but im glad to have one different to other one
11-02-2015, 03:26 PM
#511
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
WY6 was the same as the WS6 but without POSI IIRC...
11-03-2015, 02:32 PM
#512
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
The best thing about this one with the build sheet below is that all 1983 DT500 cars were built in Norwood and this one was sold in Van Nuys.
Last edited by simo; 11-04-2015 at 08:40 PM. Reason: added Van Nuys sold......Better Build Sheet Photo
11-08-2015, 08:29 PM
#513
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Before I knew what it was, I saved a few pictures of the cat back portion of that system that a fellow had for sale. I had never seen one, and wanted the photos for reference. It's different looking.
02-17-2016, 01:29 PM
#514
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Car: 87 Iroc 5.7,67 SS Camaro,90 Formula
Engine: 355 AFR Superram LPE 219
Transmission: 700r4 3000 stall 4spd 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I just searched vho Formulas and read about them. I don't remember hearing aboui those cars back then. Expensive but must have been a quick street car.
02-18-2016, 12:48 PM
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
It was a very unusual conversion and obviously not a lot of people bit on it. Not sure how much they were tho.
Honestly the Firehawk was probably more expensive in the day, but they were a few years after the VHO.
John
02-21-2016, 07:40 AM
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Car: 1987 GTA Vert & 1991 GTA 5 Speed
Engine: 87 GTA-L98 91 GTA LB9
Transmission: GTA-700R4 & GTA T5
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Any idea how many LB9 M5 Trans Ams were made in 1989? I saw a listing for GTAs but not T/As for 1989.
I looked the list over a couple times but didn't see anything.
I looked the list over a couple times but didn't see anything.
Last edited by Slowridr; 02-21-2016 at 04:59 PM.
02-22-2016, 09:34 AM
#517
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Unfortunately there is no way to track it down either.
Seeing that there was only 8,495 Firebird (total) 5 speeds made in 1989...
Matter of factually, I would think it could be less than the GTA, That is based only on the fact that the Trans Am MM5 (especially if you have the LB9) is a rare bird indeed.
The data has not been released... I wish I had the 1982-1989 Data to go by, but it is not out there..
09-14-2016, 10:58 PM
#518
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Car: 91' Z28 1LE R7U
Engine: 350 ZZ6
Transmission: 6 Speed T56 Magnum
Axle/Gears: 3:42 posi G80/GU6
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I've been looking thru your list and it says there were 32 91' R7U Players Camaros. According to the paperwork from GM Vintage on my 91 R7U Players car it says this:
1570 Z28s imported to Canada in 91'. 403 of those were G92s, of those 403, 134 of them were 1LEs of those 134, 97 were R7U code cars. Maybe the 32 from your list stayed in the states but the players series was a Canadian Race series so I'd imagine the whole lot came to Canada?
1570 Z28s imported to Canada in 91'. 403 of those were G92s, of those 403, 134 of them were 1LEs of those 134, 97 were R7U code cars. Maybe the 32 from your list stayed in the states but the players series was a Canadian Race series so I'd imagine the whole lot came to Canada?
09-22-2016, 04:45 AM
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Car: 1986 Trans Am WS6 w/ Recaros
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Can someone tell me about an 86 Trans am 305 TPI Auto WS6 with recaro seats? Were these seats just an option at the time?
09-22-2016, 03:57 PM
#521
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Faine,
Yes they were an option thru 1986, then in 1987 the top seat became what is commonly called the "GTA" seats. Pretty rare too, they are not common at all, I have seen several of them, but not nearly as common as the other seating options... Especially if they are in good condition, hard to find nice ones. For the most part it seems the Recaro option was more popular thru 1984, but in 1985 & 1986 they stopped pushing them for one reason or another.
John
Yes they were an option thru 1986, then in 1987 the top seat became what is commonly called the "GTA" seats. Pretty rare too, they are not common at all, I have seen several of them, but not nearly as common as the other seating options... Especially if they are in good condition, hard to find nice ones. For the most part it seems the Recaro option was more popular thru 1984, but in 1985 & 1986 they stopped pushing them for one reason or another.
John
09-22-2016, 05:12 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Faine,
Yes they were an option thru 1986, then in 1987 the top seat became what is commonly called the "GTA" seats. Pretty rare too, they are not common at all, I have seen several of them, but not nearly as common as the other seating options... Especially if they are in good condition, hard to find nice ones. For the most part it seems the Recaro option was more popular thru 1984, but in 1985 & 1986 they stopped pushing them for one reason or another.
John
Yes they were an option thru 1986, then in 1987 the top seat became what is commonly called the "GTA" seats. Pretty rare too, they are not common at all, I have seen several of them, but not nearly as common as the other seating options... Especially if they are in good condition, hard to find nice ones. For the most part it seems the Recaro option was more popular thru 1984, but in 1985 & 1986 they stopped pushing them for one reason or another.
John
Awesome! mine arent in the best shape, the drivers side seat has a nasty tear in the butt part. The passengers are ok. The back seats match and theyre in ok condition as well. I was thinking of replacing them with corbeau leather seats and possibly leaving these somewhere or reupholster them. If I reupholster them, are they no longer considered " original " ??
09-23-2016, 08:32 AM
#523
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
The biggest problem you will have is finding the original material to recover the seats. To cover them in anything but would definitely hurt the value of them. I am still kicking myself for not grabbing a torn up set of Recaros in a junkyard 15 years ago.
09-23-2016, 01:16 PM
#524
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09-23-2016, 02:55 PM
#525
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I just like collecting some things. It would have been nice to have a set for some reason... I don't know why. Are they "that" collectible? I don't know, I would think sitting next to an otherwise identical Trans Am, same year, same options, same everything except the Recaros it would definitely sell quicker for the same price.
How much it adds to the value? I have no idea.
How much it adds to the value? I have no idea.
09-23-2016, 08:30 PM
#526
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Gotcha, I'm actually writing up a new member thread now and i'll add pictures
11-28-2016, 06:50 PM
#528
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
100,899 Z-28's produced in 1984
47,444 5spd Camaros produced
13,862 Code 62 Light Brown Camaros produced
8,198 Code 67 Dark Brown Camaros produced
How many of those were Z28 5spd & brown - we have no idea.
BTW, welcome to the board.
47,444 5spd Camaros produced
13,862 Code 62 Light Brown Camaros produced
8,198 Code 67 Dark Brown Camaros produced
How many of those were Z28 5spd & brown - we have no idea.
BTW, welcome to the board.
03-06-2017, 05:57 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I picked up a 1986 iroc z with vin digit g indicating that it's a 305 ho L69, t-tops t-5 all original with 99k miles. My question I guess from what I've read is that they are rare but is there any other indicators to prove that it is truly a l69 car? I have the air cleaner that says ho and stuff but just wanna double check. Thanks
03-06-2017, 07:14 PM
#530
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I picked up a 1986 iroc z with vin digit g indicating that it's a 305 ho L69, t-tops t-5 all original with 99k miles. My question I guess from what I've read is that they are rare but is there any other indicators to prove that it is truly a l69 car? I have the air cleaner that says ho and stuff but just wanna double check. Thanks
03-07-2017, 11:37 AM
#532
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Make sure there are 2 Gs in the VIN... The Year code for 1986 is G as well.
If your 8th and 10th digits are G?G then yes you have an L69 car... Most of those went to Canada IIRC
If your 8th and 10th digits are G?G then yes you have an L69 car... Most of those went to Canada IIRC
03-08-2017, 09:20 PM
#536
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Look at the drivers door jamb sticker, the 87 Firebirds had the label in both English and French that went to Canada IIRC... might be the same for 86.
if your vin is on compnine it went to Canada
if your vin is on compnine it went to Canada
03-10-2017, 10:46 AM
#538
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
So chances are it is a US L69, which is super cool. I am not sure how different they are to the 1985 cars.
03-27-2017, 07:04 AM
#539
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Car: 85 IROC Z
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: TCI TH350 TCI 2400 STALL
Axle/Gears: 3.42 WORN OUT POSI
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
So I just read all 11 pages and I'm questioning something from way back, the 205 85 G92 package. My 85 is B4Z, LB9, MXO, J65, G80, GU6. No G92 listed. I don't know what else could've = G92. My car is a white IROC with TPI, 3.42 posi, 4 wheel disc and no power anything. Roll up windows, manual locks, no trunk pull down. It had a radio and a/c. So like what else could've = G92? I would post my spid but I don't know how. The pic is on my phone.
03-27-2017, 08:33 AM
#540
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I do not know...
The LB9 in the Z28 only came with the 3.23, the IROC got the 3.42. Therefore there may have been no G92 option by the time we got to February, 1985. The reason I say there info I have is from 1-28-85, so with that things may have been different earlier in the MY, where the G92 was an option on something. Interestingly the 1985 California IROC, there was 502 of those made, so it might be tied to those cars somehow, as they are not listed within my data from GM. Heck, numbers like "205" and the "502", one may be transposed from the data out there. The Dealer data from GM does not even show how to get the G92 for the LB9, or it as an option, it is listed in the RPO list but that is it so far. I have not dug too deeply but that is what I have found.
On one page it shows G92 as an Option for $21.00, Interestingly the IROC shows at one point in the Dealer Order guide that It appears that possibly to get the G92, you had to order the LG4, and then opt for the 3.23 axle, which required the disc brakes. So there is a possiblity that the only way to get G92 in 1985 was to order an IROC, with the LG4, and then get the 3.23 axle.
Just a wild guess.
The LB9 in the Z28 only came with the 3.23, the IROC got the 3.42. Therefore there may have been no G92 option by the time we got to February, 1985. The reason I say there info I have is from 1-28-85, so with that things may have been different earlier in the MY, where the G92 was an option on something. Interestingly the 1985 California IROC, there was 502 of those made, so it might be tied to those cars somehow, as they are not listed within my data from GM. Heck, numbers like "205" and the "502", one may be transposed from the data out there. The Dealer data from GM does not even show how to get the G92 for the LB9, or it as an option, it is listed in the RPO list but that is it so far. I have not dug too deeply but that is what I have found.
On one page it shows G92 as an Option for $21.00, Interestingly the IROC shows at one point in the Dealer Order guide that It appears that possibly to get the G92, you had to order the LG4, and then opt for the 3.23 axle, which required the disc brakes. So there is a possiblity that the only way to get G92 in 1985 was to order an IROC, with the LG4, and then get the 3.23 axle.
Just a wild guess.
So I just read all 11 pages and I'm questioning something from way back, the 205 85 G92 package. My 85 is B4Z, LB9, MXO, J65, G80, GU6. No G92 listed. I don't know what else could've = G92. My car is a white IROC with TPI, 3.42 posi, 4 wheel disc and no power anything. Roll up windows, manual locks, no trunk pull down. It had a radio and a/c. So like what else could've = G92? I would post my spid but I don't know how. The pic is on my phone.
03-27-2017, 09:39 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
That's a good point about those transposed numbers but even the 2 guys earlier in the thread said their spid doesn't have G92. I was also thinking that maybe it would be an odd combo like u said about LG4 and rear disc. I was thinking maybe L69 with posi, rear disc, and of course 3.73. I don't know, I guess we'll never know unless someone spid sheets come forward.
03-30-2017, 08:05 AM
#542
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
According to the GM info I have, there was an RPO, but no way to order it. There was no optional axle ratio checkbox.
08-01-2017, 12:47 AM
#549
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
There were 94 1992 Trans Am ASC 5 speed convertibles. I have documentation of this directly from Pontiac.
The purpose of this thread is to help people with third gens understand what makes a car "desirable" and what makes a car "Rare" The two are not synonymous with each other.
Two cars, Both were made in 1989, one is "Rare" the other is more common. The first car is a Camaro with an AM radio, there was only 49 of them with the option in 1989. The second "More common" car is the Turbo Trans Am (TTA) they made 1555 of them. If we think of "Rare" as being valuable and the more rare something is makes it more valuable ultimately we are very mistaken... The 1989 TTA is worth WAY more than the Camaro with the AM radio, There should NOT be an argument about it, THIS is the way things are. To assume otherwise is futile and a waste of bandwidth IMHO.
This leads us into what determines a car to be "DESIRABLE"... HISTORY tells us that there are a few factors that determines desirability. For the most part PERFORMANCE plays a huge role in determining desirability. Very few cars, that do not perform have significant value in today's marketplace, I cannot think of many except for a Silver Ghost Rolls Royce. The second thing that makes a car desirable is Style or appearance. Convertibles are almost always more valuable than equally equipped hard tops, Other than the 63-67 Corvette, I do not know of another single exception to this rule. So an otherwise identical Z28 Convertible with a LB9/M5 will be worth MORE than a Z28 Hard top with an LB9/M5 with similar options and the same condition, EVERY TIME. Take ONE of the above factors, such as "Performance" or "Style" and THEN combine it with "Rare" or at least unusual then you have something worth while. IF you Have BOTH then you REALLY have something that hits the mark.
In the end, you have to look at a car from a buyers point of view, its basically Supply & Demand. MOST people want a performance car, at least if your reading this I am going to assume so. Most people would rather have a 350 IROC-Z than a 6 Cyl RS, I am not trying to hurt feelings, its the honest truth and the way things are. Lets look at the facts 1) More people want Performance 2) There are more V6 Camaros than there are 350 Camaros available. Therefore there is a smaller supply and a larger demand for a 350 IROC-Z making them more valuable. In short, if you had two Identical cars sitting next to each other both were the same price, both were the same condition, the only difference is some option, it does not matter what the option is, the car that has the better options should sell first...
Moreover fuel mileage has NOTHING to do with desirability insofar as a collector is concerned as car collectors do not drive the cars every day... If fuel mileage is SUCH a big issue then why are new Cobalts that get 30+ Mpg worth only $15,000 new but a Cadillac that gets 25 Mpg are worth $40,000 new... Fuel milage is NOT a factor, and it really should not be discussed when discussing desirability. My suggestion is not to get hung up on this as even the new Camaros are not going to be significantly more fuel efficient than a 3rd Gen... Our government has made sure of that. In reality a V6 was not greatly better than a 350, I got 26 Mpg highway in my Formula 350 convertible @ 65 -70 Mph
NOW, I created a list a while ago, this is the second version of the same list that some of you may have seen, I did add a few things, but nothing significant, and its a baseline to what I have believe to be cars that are worth collecting. Some models are not included, for example I did not include all of the LB9/M5 cars BECAUSE the information is NOT AVAILABLE. The following is a list of cars that I could easily decipher and quantify into a meaningful list that would shed some light on the question "Is my car RARE and is my car DESIRABLE" If you own a car that is on the list it has better chance to YES for both of those questions. If your car is NOT on the list it does not mean the car is not desirable or rare, it just means that its not on the list because I do not have access to the information.
Some of the numbers overlap, for example there were 26 L69 Trans Am's in 1986, of those 22 were used in the Players Series... I made mention where I remembered.
If you find errors, let me know and I will fix them.
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk Convertible - SLP
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk T-top - SLP
1 (1989) PAS TTA Test Car with Hardtop & Leather Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) PAS/ASC TTA Convertible Test car, Cloth Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) ASC/PAS TTA's Convertible, Leather Interior - ASC - TTA Website
1 (1987) VHO Formula - Silver - Dealer Modified - Awaiting hard confirmation
1 (1989) VHO Formula - Dealer Modified - Confirmed find
1 (1989) GTA Notchback
2 (1988) VHO Formulas - Dealer Modified - Magazine Article states 3, but rumor has 1 1987 and 2 1988s.
3 (1988) Trans Am 1LE
3 (1989) PAS TTA's Test Cars with T-Top & Cloth Interior ( A fourth was made into a convertible See above) - TTA Website
4 (1986) Trans Am L69/M5 (NON Players) - Mark Players Series
4 (1988) Camaro 1LE - White Book
4 (1990) Trans Am 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
4 (1992) Trans Am 1LE (NON R7U) - Mark Players Series
5 (1992) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
6 (1991) SLP Firehawks (Hard Top) - SLP
9 (1991) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
9 (1989) Trans Am/GTA LB9 Convertibles
13 (1986-1991) Tojan Convertibles
14 (1990) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
15 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Cloth Interior - TTA Website
------------------107 cars above this line .0048%--------------
16 (1989) Formula LB9 Convertibles
17 (1992) SLP Firehawk (Hard Top)
17 (1989) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
20 (1988) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1986) Players Trans Am A4Q - Mark Players Series
22 (1987) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1992) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
24 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Leather Interior
26 (1989) Trans Am 1LE
28 (1990) IROC L98/A4 1LE
29 (1992) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTA - gtasourcepage.com
30 (1992) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
32 (1991) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
34 (1990) IROC LB9/M5 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
37 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 Hardtop
39 (1989) PAS Hard Top TTA's - TTA Website
------------------522 cars above this line .0216%--------------
43 (1989) ASC Formula 350 convertibles - Research
44 (1991) Formula 350 W/CC1 (T-tops) - compnine (might be short 5%)
46 (1991) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
46 (1991) Base Firebird Convertibles W/M5 Trans - Red Book
53 (1987) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Series
53 (1991) Trans Am 1LE (does not include R7U)
63 (1986) Players Camaro A4Q - Mark Players Series
65 (1989) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
71 (1988) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Series
74 (1986) Camaro L69 (11 were Non Players Cars)
------------------ cars above this line .044%--------------
78 (1990) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
86 (1992) 1LE Camaros (Non B4C non R7U)
104 (1988) ASC Firebird Convertibles (Trans Am, GTA, Formula, Firebird) - ASC
104 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/M5
111 (1989) Camaro 1LE
116 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5 (CFI)/A4 - Hardtop
123 (1986-1991) Tojan Hard Tops (includes T-top cars)
143 (1989) ASC L98 Trans Am & L98 GTA Convertibles
144 (1992) (US Sales) L98 GTA's - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
164 (1991) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTAs - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
174 (1987) ASC Pontiac Firebirds (Trans Am, GTA, Formula, Firebird) - ASC
187 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Cloth Interior - TTA Club
190 (1992) (US Sales) Trans Am W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
195 (1991) Camaro 1LE/L98 (includes B4C cars)
204 (1992) Formula 350 W/CC1 (T-tops) - compnine (might be short 5%)
205 (1985) Camaro IROC LB9/A4/G92
263 (1987) Camaro RS, SC & LT Convertibles - White Book
283 (1991) Camaro 1LE/LB9/M5 (includes B4C cars)
295 (1990) Camaro IROC LB9/M5/G92
366 (1989) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
403 (1992) (US sales) Formula 350's - compnine.com???
451 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/A4
------------------ cars above this line .230%--------------
483 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 - T-tops
502 (1985) 1C5 "California IROC" - TGO
571 (1992) Z03 Heritage Camaro Z28/L98 (all had G92) (571 not complete number)
589 (1992) Camaro B4C all with 1LE
592 (1991) Camaro B4C (note not all B4C cars were 1LE cars in 1991, 1LE equipped B4C cars will have more value)
595 (1990) (US Sales) GTA W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
607 (1992) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
662 (1983) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
718 (1988) GTA Notchbacks L98/A4, LB9/A4 & LB9/M5
729 (1990) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------ cars above this line .455%--------------
733 (1991) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
744 (1987) IROC-Z Convertibles
777 (1992) Trans Am Convertible A4 & M5 - PHS
809 (1988) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
904 (1991) Base Firebird Vert W/A4 Trans
------------------------------------
1,254 (1992) Z28 Convertibles LB9 A4 & M5
1,265 (1992) Firebird Convertibles
1,294 (1990) IROC-Z Convertibles
1,321 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Leather Interior
1,321 (1991) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
1,321 (1984) Trans Am Recaro (Y84) L69
1,665 (1985) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
1,500 (1984) Trans Am 15th Anniversary
1,864 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5(CFI)/A4 - T-tops
1,859 (1988) SC or RS Camaro Convertibles
1,900 (1990) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
------------------------------------
2,384 (1987) Formula 350's
2,497 (1985) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
2,415 (1990) IROC-Z Hard Top L98
2,562 (1992) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------------------------
3,038 (1992) Z28 Hard Top L98
3,203 (1991) Z28 Convertible LB9 A4 & M5
3,223 (1983) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
3,245 (1989) RS Camaro Convertibles
3,280 (1987) LB9/M5 GTA's
3,761 (1988) IROC-Z Convertibles
3,940 (1989) IROC-Z Convertibles
------------------------------------
5,329 (1991) RS Camaro Convertibles
6,080 (1991) Z28 Hard Top L98
6,360 (1982) Camaro Z28/Z50 INDY Edition
6,554 (1989) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
6,606+ (1992) Camaro Z03
6,913 (1988) (US Sales) Hard Top GTA W/L98
7,051 (1984) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O. W/M5
7,818 (1987) (US Sales) Hard Top Trans Am & GTA L98
9,206 (1983) Trans Am LU5 (includes some of the Daytona Trans Am's above)
--------------------------------
10,793 (1988) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
12,105 (1987) IROC-Z L98
12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98
12,370 (1989) IROC-Z L98
13,037 (1982) Trans Am LU5
13,041 (1989) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
16,869 (1985) Trans Am LB9
18,037 (1984) Trans Am L69/A4 (includes some of the Anniversary & Recaro T/A's above)
19,847 (1983) Camaro Z28 LU5
--------------------------------
21,176 (1986) Trans Am LB9
24,673 (1982) Camaro Z28 LU5
32,836 (1985) Camaro Z28 LB9
46,374 (1986) Camaro Z28 LB9
52,457 (1984) Camaro Z28 L69 (Auto & Manual)
To bring this all into perspective there were 1,517,623 Camaro's and 817,444 Firebirds made between 1982 & 1992. OR if you add them together 2,334,067 3rd Gen F-bodies...
Changes Log:
10-29-08 - Corrected Trans Am Convertible figures for 1991 & 1992
1-19-09 - Added 1C5 "California IROC" to list. 502 number has not been verified.
1-28-09 - Updated 1990 IROC 1LE production, broke out 28 from 62 total
2-17-09 - Changed 1989 Trans Am/L98 Vert figure to 141
2-18-09 - Corrected LU5 Camaros
10-9-09 - Added Knudsen Tojan production... for kicks.
11-24-09 - updated 1991 Camaro 1LE figures from the 1LE Registry, 195 1LE/L98's and 283 1LE/LB9/MM5
1-22-10 - Added 1984 Recaro Production figures
1-24-11 - Added 3 - 1988 VHO Formulas and 1 - 1989 VHO Formula
4-21-11 - Added some sources really quick as a reference
10-31-11 - Updated VHO Formula information to 1 1987, 2 1988 and 1 1989
2-25-15 - Removed Notchback TTA as PAS does not recognize there was one ever made. Made into Notchback TTA.
4-20-15 - Added 91 & 92 Formula 350 W/CC1 T-tops
John
Two cars, Both were made in 1989, one is "Rare" the other is more common. The first car is a Camaro with an AM radio, there was only 49 of them with the option in 1989. The second "More common" car is the Turbo Trans Am (TTA) they made 1555 of them. If we think of "Rare" as being valuable and the more rare something is makes it more valuable ultimately we are very mistaken... The 1989 TTA is worth WAY more than the Camaro with the AM radio, There should NOT be an argument about it, THIS is the way things are. To assume otherwise is futile and a waste of bandwidth IMHO.
This leads us into what determines a car to be "DESIRABLE"... HISTORY tells us that there are a few factors that determines desirability. For the most part PERFORMANCE plays a huge role in determining desirability. Very few cars, that do not perform have significant value in today's marketplace, I cannot think of many except for a Silver Ghost Rolls Royce. The second thing that makes a car desirable is Style or appearance. Convertibles are almost always more valuable than equally equipped hard tops, Other than the 63-67 Corvette, I do not know of another single exception to this rule. So an otherwise identical Z28 Convertible with a LB9/M5 will be worth MORE than a Z28 Hard top with an LB9/M5 with similar options and the same condition, EVERY TIME. Take ONE of the above factors, such as "Performance" or "Style" and THEN combine it with "Rare" or at least unusual then you have something worth while. IF you Have BOTH then you REALLY have something that hits the mark.
In the end, you have to look at a car from a buyers point of view, its basically Supply & Demand. MOST people want a performance car, at least if your reading this I am going to assume so. Most people would rather have a 350 IROC-Z than a 6 Cyl RS, I am not trying to hurt feelings, its the honest truth and the way things are. Lets look at the facts 1) More people want Performance 2) There are more V6 Camaros than there are 350 Camaros available. Therefore there is a smaller supply and a larger demand for a 350 IROC-Z making them more valuable. In short, if you had two Identical cars sitting next to each other both were the same price, both were the same condition, the only difference is some option, it does not matter what the option is, the car that has the better options should sell first...
Moreover fuel mileage has NOTHING to do with desirability insofar as a collector is concerned as car collectors do not drive the cars every day... If fuel mileage is SUCH a big issue then why are new Cobalts that get 30+ Mpg worth only $15,000 new but a Cadillac that gets 25 Mpg are worth $40,000 new... Fuel milage is NOT a factor, and it really should not be discussed when discussing desirability. My suggestion is not to get hung up on this as even the new Camaros are not going to be significantly more fuel efficient than a 3rd Gen... Our government has made sure of that. In reality a V6 was not greatly better than a 350, I got 26 Mpg highway in my Formula 350 convertible @ 65 -70 Mph
NOW, I created a list a while ago, this is the second version of the same list that some of you may have seen, I did add a few things, but nothing significant, and its a baseline to what I have believe to be cars that are worth collecting. Some models are not included, for example I did not include all of the LB9/M5 cars BECAUSE the information is NOT AVAILABLE. The following is a list of cars that I could easily decipher and quantify into a meaningful list that would shed some light on the question "Is my car RARE and is my car DESIRABLE" If you own a car that is on the list it has better chance to YES for both of those questions. If your car is NOT on the list it does not mean the car is not desirable or rare, it just means that its not on the list because I do not have access to the information.
Some of the numbers overlap, for example there were 26 L69 Trans Am's in 1986, of those 22 were used in the Players Series... I made mention where I remembered.
If you find errors, let me know and I will fix them.
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk Convertible - SLP
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk T-top - SLP
1 (1989) PAS TTA Test Car with Hardtop & Leather Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) PAS/ASC TTA Convertible Test car, Cloth Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) ASC/PAS TTA's Convertible, Leather Interior - ASC - TTA Website
1 (1987) VHO Formula - Silver - Dealer Modified - Awaiting hard confirmation
1 (1989) VHO Formula - Dealer Modified - Confirmed find
1 (1989) GTA Notchback
2 (1988) VHO Formulas - Dealer Modified - Magazine Article states 3, but rumor has 1 1987 and 2 1988s.
3 (1988) Trans Am 1LE
3 (1989) PAS TTA's Test Cars with T-Top & Cloth Interior ( A fourth was made into a convertible See above) - TTA Website
4 (1986) Trans Am L69/M5 (NON Players) - Mark Players Series
4 (1988) Camaro 1LE - White Book
4 (1990) Trans Am 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
4 (1992) Trans Am 1LE (NON R7U) - Mark Players Series
5 (1992) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
6 (1991) SLP Firehawks (Hard Top) - SLP
9 (1991) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
9 (1989) Trans Am/GTA LB9 Convertibles
13 (1986-1991) Tojan Convertibles
14 (1990) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
15 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Cloth Interior - TTA Website
------------------107 cars above this line .0048%--------------
16 (1989) Formula LB9 Convertibles
17 (1992) SLP Firehawk (Hard Top)
17 (1989) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
20 (1988) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1986) Players Trans Am A4Q - Mark Players Series
22 (1987) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1992) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
24 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Leather Interior
26 (1989) Trans Am 1LE
28 (1990) IROC L98/A4 1LE
29 (1992) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTA - gtasourcepage.com
30 (1992) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
32 (1991) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
34 (1990) IROC LB9/M5 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
37 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 Hardtop
39 (1989) PAS Hard Top TTA's - TTA Website
------------------522 cars above this line .0216%--------------
43 (1989) ASC Formula 350 convertibles - Research
44 (1991) Formula 350 W/CC1 (T-tops) - compnine (might be short 5%)
46 (1991) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
46 (1991) Base Firebird Convertibles W/M5 Trans - Red Book
53 (1987) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Series
53 (1991) Trans Am 1LE (does not include R7U)
63 (1986) Players Camaro A4Q - Mark Players Series
65 (1989) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
71 (1988) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Series
74 (1986) Camaro L69 (11 were Non Players Cars)
------------------ cars above this line .044%--------------
78 (1990) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
86 (1992) 1LE Camaros (Non B4C non R7U)
104 (1988) ASC Firebird Convertibles (Trans Am, GTA, Formula, Firebird) - ASC
104 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/M5
111 (1989) Camaro 1LE
116 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5 (CFI)/A4 - Hardtop
123 (1986-1991) Tojan Hard Tops (includes T-top cars)
143 (1989) ASC L98 Trans Am & L98 GTA Convertibles
144 (1992) (US Sales) L98 GTA's - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
164 (1991) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTAs - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
174 (1987) ASC Pontiac Firebirds (Trans Am, GTA, Formula, Firebird) - ASC
187 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Cloth Interior - TTA Club
190 (1992) (US Sales) Trans Am W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
195 (1991) Camaro 1LE/L98 (includes B4C cars)
204 (1992) Formula 350 W/CC1 (T-tops) - compnine (might be short 5%)
205 (1985) Camaro IROC LB9/A4/G92
263 (1987) Camaro RS, SC & LT Convertibles - White Book
283 (1991) Camaro 1LE/LB9/M5 (includes B4C cars)
295 (1990) Camaro IROC LB9/M5/G92
366 (1989) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
403 (1992) (US sales) Formula 350's - compnine.com???
451 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/A4
------------------ cars above this line .230%--------------
483 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 - T-tops
502 (1985) 1C5 "California IROC" - TGO
571 (1992) Z03 Heritage Camaro Z28/L98 (all had G92) (571 not complete number)
589 (1992) Camaro B4C all with 1LE
592 (1991) Camaro B4C (note not all B4C cars were 1LE cars in 1991, 1LE equipped B4C cars will have more value)
595 (1990) (US Sales) GTA W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
607 (1992) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
662 (1983) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
718 (1988) GTA Notchbacks L98/A4, LB9/A4 & LB9/M5
729 (1990) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------ cars above this line .455%--------------
733 (1991) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
744 (1987) IROC-Z Convertibles
777 (1992) Trans Am Convertible A4 & M5 - PHS
809 (1988) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
904 (1991) Base Firebird Vert W/A4 Trans
------------------------------------
1,254 (1992) Z28 Convertibles LB9 A4 & M5
1,265 (1992) Firebird Convertibles
1,294 (1990) IROC-Z Convertibles
1,321 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Leather Interior
1,321 (1991) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
1,321 (1984) Trans Am Recaro (Y84) L69
1,665 (1985) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
1,500 (1984) Trans Am 15th Anniversary
1,864 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5(CFI)/A4 - T-tops
1,859 (1988) SC or RS Camaro Convertibles
1,900 (1990) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
------------------------------------
2,384 (1987) Formula 350's
2,497 (1985) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
2,415 (1990) IROC-Z Hard Top L98
2,562 (1992) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------------------------
3,038 (1992) Z28 Hard Top L98
3,203 (1991) Z28 Convertible LB9 A4 & M5
3,223 (1983) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
3,245 (1989) RS Camaro Convertibles
3,280 (1987) LB9/M5 GTA's
3,761 (1988) IROC-Z Convertibles
3,940 (1989) IROC-Z Convertibles
------------------------------------
5,329 (1991) RS Camaro Convertibles
6,080 (1991) Z28 Hard Top L98
6,360 (1982) Camaro Z28/Z50 INDY Edition
6,554 (1989) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
6,606+ (1992) Camaro Z03
6,913 (1988) (US Sales) Hard Top GTA W/L98
7,051 (1984) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O. W/M5
7,818 (1987) (US Sales) Hard Top Trans Am & GTA L98
9,206 (1983) Trans Am LU5 (includes some of the Daytona Trans Am's above)
--------------------------------
10,793 (1988) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
12,105 (1987) IROC-Z L98
12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98
12,370 (1989) IROC-Z L98
13,037 (1982) Trans Am LU5
13,041 (1989) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
16,869 (1985) Trans Am LB9
18,037 (1984) Trans Am L69/A4 (includes some of the Anniversary & Recaro T/A's above)
19,847 (1983) Camaro Z28 LU5
--------------------------------
21,176 (1986) Trans Am LB9
24,673 (1982) Camaro Z28 LU5
32,836 (1985) Camaro Z28 LB9
46,374 (1986) Camaro Z28 LB9
52,457 (1984) Camaro Z28 L69 (Auto & Manual)
To bring this all into perspective there were 1,517,623 Camaro's and 817,444 Firebirds made between 1982 & 1992. OR if you add them together 2,334,067 3rd Gen F-bodies...
Changes Log:
10-29-08 - Corrected Trans Am Convertible figures for 1991 & 1992
1-19-09 - Added 1C5 "California IROC" to list. 502 number has not been verified.
1-28-09 - Updated 1990 IROC 1LE production, broke out 28 from 62 total
2-17-09 - Changed 1989 Trans Am/L98 Vert figure to 141
2-18-09 - Corrected LU5 Camaros
10-9-09 - Added Knudsen Tojan production... for kicks.
11-24-09 - updated 1991 Camaro 1LE figures from the 1LE Registry, 195 1LE/L98's and 283 1LE/LB9/MM5
1-22-10 - Added 1984 Recaro Production figures
1-24-11 - Added 3 - 1988 VHO Formulas and 1 - 1989 VHO Formula
4-21-11 - Added some sources really quick as a reference
10-31-11 - Updated VHO Formula information to 1 1987, 2 1988 and 1 1989
2-25-15 - Removed Notchback TTA as PAS does not recognize there was one ever made. Made into Notchback TTA.
4-20-15 - Added 91 & 92 Formula 350 W/CC1 T-tops
John
08-01-2017, 07:14 PM
#550
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Join Date: Aug 2017
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Car: 1985 Firebird S/E
Engine: 305 V8
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
My first car was an 85 S/E with the Recaro seats. What is the best way to go about trying to locate it (or another like it)?