david068513

iTrader: (2)

Ok I have a few questions about the firehawks. GM in the 4th gen years never let them do anything that radical after that so why did the firehawks of the third gen years get treated so different? where they done out of house and not thru GM like the other years? Also besides the wheels,6 speed, T ram intake, what else was changed in them? What's the story? They had a price of over 50,000 and the firehawks after only were in the 20,000. what happened?

Jeff91RS

iTrader: (1)

There are 4th gen Firehawks and I think they had LT4s in 97 but even the earlier ones were known to out perform 'vettes.

I really don't know anything else 100% but I am fairly certain they were done by SLP.

david068513

iTrader: (2)

correct. SOME not all got the LT4 most got the LT1 and even the LT4 ones are about the same as a third gen hawk as performance IMO. I am just curious as to why GM let them get so radical in the third gens and barely let them to anything to the 4th gens for performance. What was the deal? etc.

Klewis89RS

GM is careful not to release any performance cars that could stomp their precious Vettes.

david068513

iTrader: (2)

true but why did the third gens get all of that? Why didn't GM step in like with the fourth gens? Did they have a contract with SLP then or did that come later and SLP did it without a contract to GM or what?

okfoz

For crying out loud guys...

The problem with the 3rd Gen Firehawk was it was too darned expensive, Ed Hamburger darned near went bankrupt destroying 3 cars to prove that the car was safe after he modified the rear axle. Backwards barrier crashes. In the end the problem had nothing to do with GM it had to do with SLP.

The 4th Gen Formulas and Trans Am's were good performers on their own, they were not up to snuff to the 3rd gen but they were really good out of the box, so not as much modification was needed on the LT1 and LS1.

It had NOTHING to do with out performing the Corvette, it had to do with money money money, must be funny in a rich mans world...

John

xcalibur

ABBA ! (We're showing our age here, John. You and I may be the only ones to get your joke)

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

Heh, I caught that as well.

scottmoyer

Why did you guys go for ABBA on that? I went for the Bullet Boys! More my generation, and I think John's too.

okfoz

Sorry Scott, I was thinking of ABBA... I grew up in the 80's & 90's that is true, but my father had most of the ABBA LP's so I was indoctrinated young...

umm... who are the Bullet Boys?

Sorry I do not get out much, and I view the world through Glenn Beck Glasses...

John

Rumblin70SS

They were an 80's hair band with a song called 'For The Love of Money'. They are on itunes so check it out......you just might remember the song....lol.

1989IROC-Z5.7L

iTrader: (2)

YouTube - Pink Floyd- Money

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Way to jack a good thread! Way to go.

I too would like to know why the thirdgen Firehawk is just as good if not better that the 4th gen ones. I figured each newer year should be able to out perform the previous years.

1989IROC-Z5.7L

iTrader: (2)

Money was the reason GM canceled the program. Of the 1000 Firehawk to be made in 91'-92, only around 25 sold. For the same money a 91'-92' Firehawk cost, GM had the Corvette in the same price range.

The 93'-02' Firehawks just had a ram-air hood, 17" wheels, custom exhaust, and stickers. The exceptions were the Comp T/A and a few Firehawks with the LT-4 engine.

In 96' GM introduced the WS-6 package on the Formula and T/A that was almost the same package as the Firehawks!

http://www.92firehawk.com/

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6mAcBe3waM

This should answer your questions about the 3rd gen Firehawks.

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

Where did you get 1000 from? It was limited to 250. The corvette was still more expensive than the Firehawk(except for base model coupes) at that time yet the Firehawk had better performance. As stated already, 93+ didn't need much work done because they were already good performance cars from the factory.

t_towner

Well said John! Why pay $50k for a "special" firebird that looks just like a formula with some kool wheels? ....why not just buy a ZR-1 for an extra 10k-ish?

FWIW, I pulled the IMSA Firehawk out tonight for a lap around the neighborhood. What a fun and fast car!

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I bet your neighbors loved it!

t_towner

Actually...they don't mind one bit. It's in a quasi-industrial section of town and there are always guys beating on cars. Couple weeks ago there was a kid in a supercharged Z06 driving around the area and bouncing off the rev limiter. It was quite funny....but the car was FAST! The guys around are always there to help and enjoy the show....it's funny that most think these cars are just a bunch of joe dirt third gens with some stickers and a lound exhaust.

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

Showoff!

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

Indeed, but good for you for actually taking it out for a quick spin.

t_towner

Oh no....sorry for being "that person." That's the last thing I want to be as I was just excited to find time to take it for a spin.

Greg

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

I know you're not Greg, just pullin' your chain!

I was actually able to get all 3 cars out a few Sundays ago for a photoshoot, so I can understand your excitement.

1brd2brd3brd4

I'm putting a T-ram on an 88 T/A with a 383. If I can find a set of wheels I can afford I figured on putting "FAUXHWK" on the tag!

P.S. I hope no one starts singing "Dancing Queen" now..........

Rumblin70SS

Showin off or not, I'd about kill to be on the side of the road seeing any of those cars take a lap around the park!

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I would pay to see the IMSA Hawk

The thing that makes the 3rd gen Firehawks different than a " tuner car" was that anyone could waltz into a Pontiac dealer and order one. The mods listed by the OP only scratch the surface of what SLP actually did to those cars. They did not just " bolt in" a ZR-1 6 speed, they made the bell housing, the hood looked like a steel Formula hood, but was aluminum, the intake design and tooling were made by this guy -
http://www.falconerengines.com/

The cars were expensive at the time, combine that with a minny recession and also a new 4th gen F body with a new SBC engine = a still born factory super car. GM did enlist SLP to develop and produce the SS and FireHawks during the 4th gen production years, but the modifications where no wear near what they did on the 3rd gens.

okfoz

now THAT V12 would be cool motor to get... Open my hood to a V12??? I am think making it look like an elongated TPI, just with an extra 4 cyl in the front would be super trick...

I bet that would turn some heads at a car show...

John

thebandit50187

The 91-92 Firehawks were almost too modified. When SLP received the
Basically only the body and most of the interior was used. They put in 4 bolt main 350's (f-body only used 2 bolts), aluminum heads (again f bodies came with cast iron heads), a zf 6 speed, and Dana 44 rear end. I'm sure when you ordered a 'hawk they didn't give you back the former drivetrain but for 40k you sure still paid for it. When the 93 'Hawks came out SLP basically slapped on some quick bolt ons and made it 50 states legal and called it a day. The LT-1 was making 300 hp in the corvette so all SLP had to do is getting breathing better and it added a good 40+hp. Much easier, faster and less time consuming r&d to fund. In 97 they dropped in a few LT-4 in the Firehawk (more were put in corvettes and Camaro SS's thought). The Camaro SS was brought back to life by SLP as well in the LT-1 years. The LT-4's added the SS and the Firehawk got balanced and blue printed, probably made more like 350 hp. These were more expensive and SLP didn't sell a crap ton of these cars either but they sold more than the 91-92 Firehawks by quite a bit. The LT-1 and LT-4 cars were made cheaper by keeping the stock t-56 6 speed. At the time the t-5 5 speed available in the f-body cars just wasn't up to the task 350hp and 400ft lbs of tq the t ram 350 put out. SLP could have built more radical special edition Camaro's and Firehawks but it would be costly in r&d so they played it safe since they did risk a lot on the 91-92 cars. I'm just surprise they didn't attempt a 3rd gen Camaro SS.

okfoz

Not sure on this, but I believe the 25th anniversary cars were going to go toe to toe with the Firehawk for performance. I think the idea was canned when they realized that the Firehawk had way lower than expected production figures. They wanted to sell 250, but only sold 25...

Chevy did testing on two High performance Camaros in 1991, they had the black cross lace rims, one was white with Black rims and black stripes, not sure on the other car...

Of course this is an educated guess, by no means science.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Hard to believe that this thread is 6yrs old....

thebandit50187

the heritage edition's you are talking about came straight out of GM and weren't SLP. they were very stout compared to production Z28's but were still 50 horses short of a firehawk. 300 horsepower out of a longtube runner intake. Not sure if it was a GM prototype runner that they did or didnt release. yes, they made two test cars. motorweek actually has a test drive video on youtube. i do know 300hp 350, L98 aluminum heads (just like the 91 corvette) with a zf 6 speed. one later became GM's test mule for the 350 ramjet crate engine

thebandit50187

i was thinking more of a exact Firehawk only a 1992 Camaro. 350 horsepower 350 with the T-ram intake and Dana 44 rear end. with the competition packages, Brembo 13" F40 brakes, 17" Ronal wheels and TOTL exhaust

thebandit50187

just like when SLP started making the SS. it was a Camaro verison of the Firehawk. thats what i would of wanted.

okfoz

I know that SLP had nothing to do with the Heritage cars, but I think when GM realized that the Firehawk was not selling there was no real reason to finish the project. They would have been just as well off to stuff a LT1 under the hood for a few, I had a 1995 Formula Convertible, and that car was really quick...

It used to be back in the 1960's they would change an engine on a whim, have a car that appears to be almost identical for 2 different years, but one year would have the old engine, the next year has a new engine. I think the problem is now with certifications required. You have to get crash tests, and EPA estimates, just a bunch of hoops to jump through. I know it seems about the only time they change an engine any more is when they change the styling of the car. The new Corvette, the new Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon are all good examples of changing the engine and the body at the same time...

In some ways it makes good business sense to change the body one year and the engine another year. First off you will get new customers just by the new styling of a vehicle, but when you upgrade the engine then you will get a new batch of customers. I know they add engines, and such but it is not as stark as it used to be.

daferris

iTrader: (8)

Not sure about the other years but the 1992's SLP sold the tires with GTA wheels for $1,000 + 40 shipping (they even sent the locks and lugs... I bought 1 set wish I bought 2....) The L98 motor were 1,800 the 700R4 trans was a grand forget what the rear end's went for...
forget what else SLP sold all the parts were sold directly by SLP.
Dave

thebandit50187

i have thought that a few time myself. the 92 Corvette had a LT1 in it, why not swap it to a 92 F-body. Sells of Firehawk could of been the reason GM never made the 300hp 6 speed Heritage Edition Camaros. ive seen a lot of GM prototype cars that should of been made.

Ever seen the LT5 Camaro? or the LS7 solstice? or the Stingray III (reminds me of a viper) i am kinda glad the 2014 Z/28 got the LS7 but a detuned LS9 would of been best if you ask me. but if the 1987 GNX taught GM anything its that they shouldnt build cars almost as fast as their beloved Corvette

okfoz

I think the GNX was kind of an authorized Factory aftermarket conversion to the Grand National.

The Firehawk was faster than the Corvette, but they did not sell as many, probably due to the fact it was so expensive. You could almost get similar performance from a $6000 supercharger and the right boost. Doubling the price of a car made it out of reach for too many people...

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

They had inventory for years! Seats, transmissions, consoles - everything! If you went to pick them up you could get even cheaper prices on the parts. Guys were buying the Rims/tires for less than you could buy replacement tires for & selling their original rims!

It was an outrageously cool concept, but a failed business attempt. I'm not sure where the break-even point was but it wasn't at the 25/26/27 unit numbers they produced.

I still want one of the competition models, know of one in PA that's still in the original owners hands.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Man, I don't remember posting my comments 6 years ago. I haven't driven my car in 3 + years and have owned it for almost 25 years. Had the T-Ram for about 16 years now, it and just about everything else on the car has about 9K miles on it.


This site is what interested me in becoming computer savvy, read an editors comments about it back in the mid 90's in High Tech, long before it became GM High Tech.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Amazing how time flies, I've had my 89 for 24 yrs or so myself.
Its just whizzing by

okfoz

I have had my 87 for 17.5 years... Feeling kind of old now, thanks.

thebandit50187

im only 28...29 (in a week) years old. some posts were made before I had drivers license

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Rub it in......

okfoz

t_towner

Holy smokes, 6 years..... the good ol days when third gen owners still had ******s.

And to think.... that was one ex wife and 4 kids ago. Boy oh boy how time flies.

I just got off the phone w/ a guy whom I haven't talked to in 6 years. He's looking for a Hawk so I jumped on here and found this thread at the top. Good times

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

By the list in your signature, I'd say the years have treated you well.

okfoz

G,
#11 has been on ebay recently.. I do not think it sold...

Of course I am sure you know that.

John

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I heard 11 did sell.

okfoz

Anyone know the selling price? It is good to keep track of these things you know.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I don't know