daveb123

Nope, it's a totally solid, running, rust-free Texas car. It has what looks like almost new tires, the only weird thing is both the interior door trim panels are missing- maybe someone at the Toyota dealer has a Camaro!

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

at least steal the damn wheels!!

tomclayborn

yeah i too was thinking of the poor thirdgens amoung others that will meet thier demise i have a 93 c1500 thats worth about $1000 but i wouldn't give it to them for $4500 because to me the best car is one thats paid for.... as far as helping the economy if one were to cinsider the auto dealers the economy then yes because chances are if we could afford a new car we would already have one so then what makes them think i $450 dollar a month will be affordable for someone who prior to this had a payment of $0 but just my opinion..... that poor little iroc she will just have to live on in anouther car i guess

Iroctopless

Crushing all these poor cars!!!!!!

And all along the environmentalists were brainwashing me into thinking recycling was the way to be green.
I guess they forgot about the 3 R's and went straight to destruction mode.

Jeff91RS

iTrader: (1)

Call me a conspiracy theorist but...

The so called "clunkers" were built to last, otherwise people wouldn't be driving them still. Newer vehicles are built to be totaled in an accident. I saw a new GTO get hit in the driver 1/4 panel and a relatively low speed, it looked like the wheel underwent the hover car mod from Back to the Future 2. Yes, I know that it can all be chalked up to safety ratings, but lets not forget safety ratings are most likely what killed the T-Top.

The mechanical components of a "clunker" are typically cheap and interchangeable from model to model. Newer vehicles are more expensive to maintain (compare an SBC to an LSX), this of course would be assuming you are comparing two vehicles of comparable mileage and type and not comparing your '87 Suburban to an '09 Cobalt.

Maybe this is all some ploy for us to get rid of our trusty rusty gas guzzling boats that would normally be driven till the wheels fell off and then some, and to replace them with vehicles that will bring in a bigger mechanics bill and get written off as a total loss when you accidentaly back into trash cans on garbage day.

irocman79

iTrader: (5)

there has got to be something wrong with car. if not there is something seriously wrong the owner 89 irocs of any kind in good shape are worth way more than 4000 go ask any bank or get it appraised.

LB9Iroc87

im sorry but not MOST of our cars are worth over 4500 dollars, hate to say it but they're not.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

The guy must be a complete moron. Or maybe the car has close to 300k miles? The odometer might've zeroed out twice LOL. Sorry but I'm trying to find SOME reason to justify junking that poor 'lil iroc. Did you talk to the dealer about it?

scottmoyer

I edited a few posts for language and political opinion. The rules state that bypassing the language filters is against the rules and grounds for probation or worse. No political opinion is to mentioned. We can discuss the government as a whole and it's rulings, but bringing party lines in and commenting on one party or another is against the rules. Please refrain from crossing both of these boundaries!!!

No punishment is being handed out for the infractions above, YET!!! Keep it clean guys.

daveb123

The odometer shows 96K. Could be 196K, but the car is just about too clean for that- The steering wheel leather is still tight, dash pad uncracked (big rarity in Texas). The car looks like it was a garage-kept original until about 5 years ago. I have talked to a buddy of mine that works there, but his hands are tied.

1Aauto

Well that's the problem too.The reason for the IROC cars, was that a third party guy started the IROC series in NASCAR it stands for International Race Of Champions. The car chosen changed throughout the years.There was a Camaro, the Dodge Daytona, and the newer Trans Am was chosen one year as well.

They grabbed the best of the best drivers like Dale Earnhardt,the formula one guys,I'm 99% sure the drag racing drivers were chosen also to compete in this race that was held for many years during Daytonas speed week in Feb. Before the Daytona 500.

The race was awesome,however a couple year ago the guy decided to stop sponsoring it and that's why they'll never be another IROC vehicle.

Keep em in good shape guys.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

A Toyota dealer near Asheville North Carolina has a crusher on site. They are using the crusher as an advertizing ploy to get people into thier dealership. Come and watch us crush a clunker. Another Toyota dealer in the same area is trying to get a crusher so they can do the same thing. They make the owner of the trade in wait until the old car is crushed to be able to pickup the new car. They have crushed several so far, and have others lined up. They act like it's a big circus. Get you hot dogs, cotton candy and watch us crush an American made Gas Guzzler.

The average John Q Stupid Public either doesn't realize or doesn't care that a big part of this country's problems have been caused by so many people buying import cars, and import everything else. Even though several imports are assembled in the US, the parts are manufactured overseas, and the profits go to an overseas company.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, they have changed the rules since this program was first announced. Now it's not really based on EPA fuel economy, but on a "revised" economy that has been selectively modified to downgrade cars that they want targeted for scrapping, like ours. They have also changed the "averaging" system from when I first read the rule, when first announced, it was 50%-50%. They make the rules, they can change them.

Keep in mind that this will decrease the number available and increase the value of our cars, so there is a silver lining, but the supply of parts is going to decrease as well. This might also get some of the really junky thirdGens off the road, which will also increase the perceived value of the remaining cars if they are in good shape. It's not all bad, but seeing that IROC go to the crusher just hurts.

So, none of us is out there trading in our cars for a new Kia?

TA

Uglybronco

iTrader: (2)

I too have an emotional attachment to vehicles.. (at least any with a V8 & rear drive) so seeing this program makes me feel kinda sick for that reason. Especially seeing the car that started this thread is way better than mine.
But I also felt the need to quote this:

We all need to look at the bigger picture: That this country is screwing itself crooked & most of the people in it don't even realize it or seem to care.
I don't really know if this site is big enough to make an impact but we can try. Go tell your friends, neighbors, coworkers & family not to fall for this crap anymore. Maybe if enough of us pass it on then those people pass it on then we can at least slow it down.
Even if you don't care about our country, do it for our cars. Oh and our ability to make decisions on our own without big brother holding our hands.

& to the Mod: Sorry if this pushes or breaks any rules but this thread got me kinda steamed up & I needed to vent. Sorry if this is the wrong place for that but it seemed like a good place for it.
& on another note, I personally think the language blockers on this site need to be toned down some & we should not have to worry about stepping on someone else's toes so much.. If they can't handle it let 'em cry..

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I'm not for the C4C program, so don't take this wrong....

The entire car is not automatically crushed, just the engine & tranny. Cars like the Camaro above probably wont be crushed. Per the program rules, the engine & tranny are pulled & scrapped. The title is turned in, effectively taking it off that car off the road.

The body can still be parted out, sold for parts. Fenders, doors, glass, interior etc.....would still be for sale. So its not a TOTAL loss for us, for parts cars.

My 22 yr old 1987 Trans Am GTA, 200,000 miles, 16mpg city/21mpg highway, WOULD have passed their old requirements, with its 19mpg average. The 55/45 change was done by the government, just to target certain cars.

irocman79

iTrader: (5)

nada says a iroc camaro in average condition with 5.7 and ttops and there explaination of average condition is presentabel paint a 20 footer and mechanicaly sound can be restored or well taken care of original is worth 6000. I now won't sell them for that much in this time of recession and such. but 4500 if the car is as nice as the guy that started the thread and it is really a g92 i would definetly pay that. in a heartbeat. Its very sad to hear people to justify crushing any camaro any vintage just because it may not have much value. thats just retarded. we all need parts cars, instead of ruining good one for drag cars we could use some of those for that to. Me personally they will have to pry mine from my cold dead hands before it will ever be crushed and even then the will have to deal with my boys and as much as they love it i don't think it will every be crushed i hope.

the_am_man

iTrader: (3)

These moves by our lawmakers don't suprise me anymore.

Just last week I was at the atm and saw one of these...



a Lexus GX 570

with a state senator license plate...and this is Indiana!!!

It was all I could do from walking up to them and giving them a piece of my mind

Our tax dollars at work for us again

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

My biggest problem with it, is whats its called....CASH for clunkers?

No. Its NOT CASH! You have to go into debt & buy a NEW car. Where's the logic in that?

My "clunker" costs me WAY less monthly, just in gas. Than just a new car payment would, plus the gas cost. Not to mention a higher insurance cost on a new car vs my 22 yr old "clunker".

okfoz

WE THE PEOPLE voted for it, and now we complain about the results, next time you want real change try not going so extreme

All I have to say is most people with a V6 & I4 will NOT qualify, as it was mentioned before. The new MPG ratings are what are applied, not the original ones. They say it is because the new ratings are more in line with how people actually drive. What is interesting about the same time they adjusted the ratings was about the same time they mandated 10% ethanol in Gas... Hmmm... Not sure if it was a MI only thing but it is mandatory up here at least.

Since The "Oboma" can say STUPID about our law enforcers, just about this whole group of Lawmakers are stupid, they want to encourage our economy, but all they are doing is ruining it. They are driving all manufacturing and industry out of the country by even including Foreign car companies to be included in the program, but we have to be Politically Correct and not hurt those companies and foreign countries feelings. We teach our Businessmen (or should I say Businessperson) on the Collegiate level to push numbers around to look good and we insist that services are what this country is about. Unfortunately no one really understands economics any more, you HAVE TO HAVE A PRODUCT to survive as a country... Just wait the worst has yet to come, it may not be immediate, but it will crush us, just like Germany in the 20's.

I look at it like this, for each Firebird, or Camaro crushed, it will just increase the value of those surviving or mine. It is a shame, but we asked for it, now we are getting it.

You know why we are not being attacked by extremist Muslims???... because we are imploding all on our own.

The heck of it is that most people do not realize that this is just the first step, the next step is to increase the price of Gasoline so that you cannot afford to drive one of your classics... It is called Cap and Trade.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

According to the C4C thing.....

My moms '04, smaller V8 Trailblazer qualifies too. And is the same 16mpg as my 22 yr old "hot rod". So much for progress!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

A good note and a bad note about cash for clunkers:

I was checking this out, and most 3rd gens DO NOT qualify. Unfortunatly, the only ones that do are the IROCS, GTA's and high end versions. The ones that might arguably be worth junking, like beaten up V6's and V8 TBI's aren't included, but the special edition cars are. How crappy is that?

The good note, is that there's not much money in this program. Most dealers don't think it'll last more than a few months. It will be over by winter at the latest, possibly before August is over. So hopefully amongst the pickups and SUV's snared, it'll run out of money before it claims too many good 3rd gens.

okfoz

But it would be silly to sell your 04 Trailblazer for $4500... I know local dealers are actually offering up to double of the C4C... check out www.cars.gov it has some information on the system...

John


Actually I think it said until November 1 or until the 1 BILLION, that is 1 with 9 zeros or $1,000,000,000 runs out. It is no wonder our country is going broke, we keep spending money we do not have, and on top of that were giving away entitlements one after the other. No where in the constitution it lists entitlements...

John

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Yes...The $ you get varies, from car to car.

But my point was.....Her '04 mini-SUV gets NO BETTER MPG than my '87 (22 yr old) "hot rod". Some progress, huh?

80schild

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, maybe they'd let you swap them with some old Caprice wheels or something.

1Aauto

I just realised something.I've never bought a new car. I always bought fixed wreckes from my dad after he fixed them at the body shop,now that's recycling.

okfoz

Well there are some things to consider when comparing the two.
1) The trailblazer should weigh more
2) The Trailblazer has a larger frontal area
3) The trailblazer creates more drag and is less aero-efficient
4) Since 1987 the EPA has increased the mandated more stringent requirements for emissions.

From a point of view, the Government made the problem we are in for inefficient vehicles. Back in the 80's you could buy a GEO Metro that got around 50 Mpg. NOW they brag on TV about 35 MPG... What gives? The cars are not significantly heavier, they are about the same size, There has been a lot of progress, my mothers 1994 Roadmaster got 33 MPG highway, no joke... I drove the Roadmaster 600 miles before I had to refill the tank, that included mostly highway, about 400 miles. I have a guy that works for me that had a 1998 Buick Park Ave (non-supercharged) that got 36 MPG highway, he drove from MI to RI, averaging 80Mph and said he got an average of 34.5 MPG, he said at 60 Mph in construction he was indicating 40Mpg for about 10 miles, up and down hills. He bought a 2001 and it gets very similar mileage as his 1998, not quite as good, but similar. both Bone stock. If you go to Europe, You can buy VW's tat get 50 & 60 MPG yes you read that right, they cannot import that car here because of the dirt kissers. I have a friend of a friend that bought a BRAND NEW Ford truck Diesel, that gets 40 MPG, no kidding, He took delivery of the truck and is delighted with it. He gets a call from the dealership telling him that they need the truck back. He said "no." Then FORD motor company calls and tells him that they will replace his truck with a new one, no charge, he told them NO. Not sure what is going on, but you can come to many conclusions about all of this, and I think it all stinks. They are keeping us under their thumb and we do not even know it.

John

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If half the people complaining about this here were to redirect their energy and write their congressmen, maybe democracy could work. It'd make more sense then whining about it.

Trying to sell that car outright wouldn't be all that easy either. Figure all the time spent advertising, fielding questions from idiots, and wasting time with low balling tire kickers... $4k for almost no effort doesn't sound that bad.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Looked more into the numbers of cash for clunkers. 1 billion bucks was spent for the program. However, its said that half of that went toward setting up the program and getting the systems in place, the other half is actually paying for the cars. (I'm not gonna argue whether that's good or bad, or how it should have been, just what's reported).

This means 500 million is gonna get spent on cars, which roughly means that 111,000 cars will be trashed for this program. As of 2005, there were roughly 64 million vehicles registered an supposedly on the road in the US.

What's this mean? It means that 1 out of every 576 cars (roughly) will be scrapped. I hate to see GTA's and IROCs go, I'd love to have the one this thread was started over. But Cash for Clunkers isn't going to affect our hobby or the stock of cars on the road.

Its just a stunt/scam/push/rebate/whatever you wanna call it, meant to get more cars moving on dealer lots. Nothing more, nothing less. It won't affect the environment much, and it won't make many cars harder to find or more valuable. This program's biggest potential effect will be the perception that cars are being sold and that the economy is moving again. So lets raise a glass to the IROC that died before its time, part it out, and move on.

okfoz

Drew,
Unfortunately I used to think the way you do. "If I would only write my congressman"

I did that, I have also made calls and it makes no difference. I called my "Representative" Dale Kildee, about the Cap and Trade Bill that was being voted on that particular day. You may have heard of it as they added 300 pages to it at 3:00AM and voted starting later that day. NO congressman actually read it. I called and talked to the gentleman answering the phone; this was more or less our conversation.

Me, "So what has been most of the calls been on the Cap and Trade Bill?"
Him, "Overwhelmingly against."
Me, "Well tell Representative Kildee to add one more Against, and have a great day."
Him, "Ok, Thanks."

Dale Kildee VOTED FOR IT ANYWAYS. I wrote him back an email telling him that he apparently does not understand the title of "Representative" and he does not deserve the title if he cannot represent those who elected him, I also told him that I will do everything in my power to make sure he does not get reelected.

In short, the premise of "We the People" is DEAD, our FORE FATHERS built upon the idea that EVERYONE was the government, unfortunately we are no longer a country that IS the government, we have turned into a socialistic Bureaucracy, we are more and more looking like the USSR than the USA that I love. They tell us Lie after lie only after it is too late we find out that we have been duped once again, one right after another they are grinding away at our rights. We are slowly becoming the country that the framers of the constitution were worried about becoming without balances, but we supposedly have the three branches of government.

One thing that most people do not understand is the Constitution is not a document that tells the government what they CAN do it is about what the government CANNOT do. Obama had it right, the Constitution is a document of negatives. A right is one of those things that they cannot deny you. Our current government has turned it on its head and they are trying to tell us what the government can do for us. remember "Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country." The premise that the government hands out wads of cash for junk is Obscene in my honest opinion.

John

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

I voted for McCain "the people" didn't vote the current administration in, some of the people did. Anyway, alot more damage was done to auto restoration from steel prices shooting up in the last few years. If it wasn't for that, a whole lot more third gen parts would be available.

okfoz

I think it is a bunch of things, the reason why parts are not available is the cars are too new to really get much attention, but they are old enough to need parts. The second gens were where we are about 10 years ago.

John

Schwinny

Gah, Not this again...


Lets do some math...


1987 Pontiac Firebird
17city 25hwy
At an annual fuel cost of $1830

But Its all paid off. I dont owe a cent on it.

So im paying $1830 a year on this car.


Now, If i traded in my beloved firebird for lets say a 2010 Toyota Camry .
(which will never happen, I would rather eat it and die)

2010 Toyota Camry.
19City 28Hwy
At an annual fuel cost of $1592

This seems like a good deal on the surface, However, your not paying $1592 a year for this car. Youve got car payments...

but the Sticker on a new camry is $21,165. And if you take $4500 out obamas "c4c" its still $16,665

16,665
/
36 month lease.
=
$462
*
12 months
=
$5555 a year for car payments.
+
$1592 For fuel.
=
$7147 a year for a 2010 Camry.


Now you can have a 3rdGen, for $1830 a year, Or you can have a Sigh... Camry... for $7147 a year.


you decide.


Just my $0.02.

daveb123

There IS a 3rd gen guy working at this dealership, I talked to him and he has already tried to pull strings save the car to no avail. Also, crushing all the cars is apparently a Toyota PR thing, so that car will be crushed. I'm feeling kinda crushed too!

Schwinny

got a fourway in your car?

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

...

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I love this program, it's making me money!

I had a friend with a 98 Jeep that was in OK shape, but we offered him $500 for it 2 months ago. He wanted a nice little fuel efficent car. With his "not" so perfect credit, he was unable to even get a loan. Well, I just sold him a brand new Aveo for a little over $7000, his car payments are @ $160 a month. This was possible because now instead of $500 in equity, he had $4500 in equity. I was able to get him a loan and a brand new car.

I also used this program to trade in an 87 Ford F150 4x4 with 300,000+ miles and sold him a brand new Silverado for @ $15,000.

Anyways. There are always 2 sides to every coin.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

But the program is about crushing engines & transmissions, not the rest of the car. If they crush the whole car, they are not really doing what the program is even about.

Schwinny

Word.


Leave it to the Japanese to take it too far... again...

scottmoyer

You are entitled to your opinion, however, the board rules, that have been in place since the beginning and that you agreed to when signing up, state that substituting symbols in place of censored words is not allowed. It has nothing to do with hurting feelings.

TGO is a tech only site and the majority of the posts are tech related, however, some posts deal with 3rd gens that are not technical in nature. There is no need to swear or violate the censored word lists when typing. When speaking, you can swear all you want, but it's not needed here.

The fact is, TGO is family friendly because women, wives, children, pastors, etc read these posts and don't need to filter what they read here. If you have any further issues about this, please contact JT or IROCZTWENTYGR8 with your suggestions.

scottmoyer

Just so you know, the rules state that leases need to be for 5 years, not 3. Consider it more interest to the bank and less final value to the consumer.

Also, the $4500 would only work on cars that get 10 mpg better than the one your unloading. This is the gov'ts way of saying, "Get rid of everything and get a Prius or a Smart Car!!"

TA

iTrader: (1)

Don't forget that when you are making payments on a new car, you have to carry full coverage insurance. That is going to make a huge deposit in someone elses' bank account as well. Our cars were built 20+ years ago, and the energy and pollution of production has long since dissapated, yet producing a new car, we are paying again for the moving of raw materials, smelting the steel, producing the rubber. We are using up natural resources to build another damn car, when we are already swimming in 'em. NOT green.

TA

TADailyDriver

iTrader: (8)

At our dealership we are only required to seize the engines as the rpgram states. the program says nothing about disabling the transmissions to my knowledge. The jeep dealership down the street frm us just had a 1986 IROC Z 1LE car traded in, 112 k miles, some dents and dings, minor paint work was needed but none the less a 1LE car, and guess what.. its going to the crusher..... I was told a 74yr. old gentelmn traded it cause he had ben unable to sell the car and since he wanted something he could drive any day he chose the C4C prgram.... I already tried to buy the car off them but to no avail... Im thinking about doing a 2am driveby with my drill n some other tools to get all the goodies... anyone need parts haha?

Schwinny

Word.


Even at 5 years. its still a ridiculous amount.

Schwinny

Seriously, I hear you.

Common sense isnt so common anymore. Its sad really.

Lee1

Part of the program rules is the "clunker" on top of the MPG is the fact it has to be a licensed, on the road car for atleast a year. So now you need to factor in how many "desirable" 3rd gen F bodies are still registered, with eligible MPG's with owners looking to trade them in for qualified low MPG new vehicles? I don't think it will be the mass exodus imagined. Some are sure to get crushed, but many more are rotting away in yards and fields.

Schwinny

Hell, Ive got a van rotting in my field.

C4C anyone?

V6F1R3BRD

I'd rather drive my lawnmower to work..

GeeJenn91RSV8

Just wondering after this program wraps up if it would ever be possible to find out how many cars were turned in or maybe even how many thirdgens were turned in......after all everything turned in should be on file right?

8urv8

WTF is wrong with these people! Why would they take a car like that to them just to get a few hundred bucks??? geeezzz that pisses me off!

tom3

Local Hyundai dealer sold over 130 cars last weekend, trouble is getting cars to sell right now. People buying small cars, price under $7000 with CARS and rebates. Really stimulating Asia's economy with all the money we borrowed from, uh, Asia.