okfoz

If it was easy to buy a car, do a restoration and then sell for a profit then everyone would be doing it. I have done just that in the past, matter of fact I have made reasonable money with third gens buying, fixing and selling them. I have never done a complete restoration but small things, like paint pieces, cleanup interiors and then sell for a little profit.
I think it has to do with buying a car "Right" for as little as possible and then doing what is necessary without going overboard and then unload it.

John

82TA_JAIME

iTrader: (1)

its too hard to be completely restoring a car and selling because you cant always sell it for all you've invested in it. If youre lucky you'll get half since a 5000 paint job will set you far back, unless ur filthy rich. but if u were filthy rich ud prolly have a 2010 camaro ss and wouldnt give much thought to restoring.

okfoz

I look at it like this. If you want to restore any car
1) If you have butloads of money and really like a car, then restore it by paying someone else to do it. You will probably never recover the investment, but you like the car.
2) If you are like most people and do not have the money, then I would suggest restoring it youself. Did you know that you can cut out the majority of the costs, as even parts are typically more expensive than if you DIY. Then you save on labor. There are always points where you will need help but there is a ton that you can do on your own. Even buying your tools will be typically less expensive than paying someone to do it and you can actually look at it as something you did yourself. The case in point a $5000 or more paint job can be cut in half easily... Of coures you have to have a place to paint it...

82TA_JAIME

iTrader: (1)

thats exactly what i've been doing since i started my engine swap but i've been nickel and diming it for the last 3 or 4 months. Finally took out the ta and did a little run with it. Damn 406 dont mess around especially when it comes to overheating, but thats besides the point.
i havent counted but doing it all myself and with friends i've prolly saved about 3k so far. Not counting paint. And i've actually been reading up how to properly paint a car. I got it quoted at a reputable body shop in town and he said he will make it look original like it just came out of the factory for 2200$ which aint too bad at all.
Case in point, doing most of the work yourself will get you very close to ur car, and you'll be prouder of it. Thats the lesson i learned. My bird means alot more to me now than when i first bought it.

GTA50

And so we've come back full circle. You love the car, you're having fun doing the learning of a number of skills. That is what it is all about.

Restoring old Studebakers, Nashs, Triumphs, MGs..... none of those cars would outdo the lowest of value imports now-a-days, but there is still an appeal. In that vein, the Thirdgens have a very attractive body style which still gets attention today and the drag coefficients and handling still rival the most current cars.

Over the summer my wife and I spent the night in Yreka, CA. My 1988 GTA was parked on one side of a Chevy Avalanche and on the other side was parked a restored Nash. The owner of the Avalanche said to me, "Wow, I'm parked between two classics".

Take that for what you will.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

My IROC-Z has gotten that a few times, haha. People are really starting to see them that way. I often get the "they must be really expensive now" thing alot these days also. Funny how perceptions change over time, I've been saying for years that it's gonna happen just like with the other Gens.

96LT4c4

I think the time for these cars is coming. I have never owned a third gen up until about a month ago. I only drove it around my neighbor hood for about a week until I tor it apart to restore it. When its done I am sure its going to be the nicest one in my neck of the woods. I love these cars and have always wanted one.

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

3rdGen F-Bodies will have their day and it will not just be the Firehawks, TTA's that get the attention. Members on this site who have clean,non molested examples are getting comments about their cars now and that will increase every year as more and more of our cars disappear. We are still a few years away from getting our full due but it will come. More and more people are being "priced out" of being able to purchase a 60's early 70's muscle car. That is why you are seeing the resurgence in the interest and pricing of 2ndGens now. Things work in cycles and our cars are on the beginning of the up cycle. If you truly enjoy your car keep it, take care of it & repair/restore what needs to be done to make it right. If you want to mod it go right ahead. Car's like ours were made to be enjoyed and now for many of us they bring back memories of our youth and fun times. That is what its all about.

ziggy89

im not sure if our cars will ever be reconized as great muscle cars of their day or be highly desired. i can tell you for a fact a third gen f-body was not even on the list when i was lookin for a car to build. but for the right price it was mine. and after 3 years and an expensive powertrain later, its my little hot rod with my blood and swet and its gunna stay that way mine. never thought id be a huge fan of these cars yet now i find myself stoping to look at every one for sale all cause i want another. so weather there highly sought after or not theres always gunna be sum enthusist that wants one

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

My car is in need of paint but other than that its in good shape.I get comments and compliments all the time.People try to buy it from me while im pumping gas.I`ve also noticed alot of younger guys like the cars.I`ve had young guys I work with say they like the third gen bodystyle the best out of all the camaros,and I kinda agree.I will walk out of a store and see my car in the parking lot And think to myself,"damn thats a good looking car."Of course Mines a camaro but I`ve owned a T/A and I love them just as much.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I experience all that often. People of all ages really like it and I've had offers to buy also. The future of owning a nice Third Gen will be fun. They were super popular when new, were extremely common when they went out of production, and are now becoming a commodity and big time attention grabbers again. I go weeks, sometimes months without seeing a Third on the road now.

mtwlkn122

Being 19 this made me laugh. Im a proud owner of a 91 firebird and i, like you, love the look of my car. Everyday I see my car I fall in love all over again.

Id have to agree with everyone tho...everytime i see a third gen i stop and talk to the person or at least check the car out. Everytime i see a third gen on the road i wave to them no matter if mine is nicer looking or sounding(usually it is in this area lol) Ive had a few cars in the past but id have to say this is my FAVORITE car. If for some ungodly reason i ever have to get rid of it I will always want another one in the future.

It seems that its still not a major icon car tho. There is always the select few that stop and start reflecting on the "good old days". I get the biggest hit out of the younger kids that are like "daddy daddy look at this one" as they are pointing at my car. The most common one i get is "...hunny remember when we had one of these"

TimeTraveller

If someone gets into this strictly as an "investment" (If you've ever watched the Barrett-Jackson auctions you'll know what I'm talking about) then 3rd gens aren't for you. But if you're restoring a piece of history, and you're doing it for the enjoyment of doing it, then it doesn't matter what some rich guy thinks.

Have at it, and post the results!

Iroctopless

I agree with all the positive experience comments above. While I've only owned my 3rd gen for 10 years, I have noticed a huge difference in the way my ride is responded too.
I travel to many car shows every year, covering everywhere from Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC, and even Washington. The responses from all has been great. So many are pleasently surprised to see me pull-up. I've been to shows with dozens of 1st gens and a handful of 2nd and even 4th gens. But very few, and sometimes even no 3rd gens (unless I go to a Chevy or 3rd gen specific show). You just don't see our rides in great shape anywhere, at shows or even on the road. I tell you, when I park beside a bunch of 1st gens, I usually get way more traffic around my car. Many people are like, "Here's a 1st gen, and another, and another . . . holy cow a 3rd gen!!!"
Other positive things . . . I too can hardly go anywhere without getting offers. I've been stopped by police just to check out my ride. I've been held up at border crossings by guards interested in the car, and not because it's so called "trailer trash" and I'm a target! My ride is also appraised and insured for more than original retail. Heads turn everywhere when I go for a cruise. I could go on and on.
Even though so many 3rd gens were made, good examples are really getting hard to find. And when one does make an appearance (Camaro or Firebird), I have always found the responses awesome.

okfoz

Lets not go around and demonize those "Rich Guys" You have to keep in mind it is not the Rich guys that really push up the value of cars. Granted those Rich guys (whom are typically rich due to hard work) Ultimately It is the ratio of supply and demand. I see that our cars are going up in demand, but at the same time there is still quite a supply. As our cars are taken off the road, or Cash 4 Clunkers claims its victims, the value of the existing ones will only increase.

John

Iroctopless

Rich is good. I wish I was a rich guy. I'd love to have some fine examples of all 5 Camaro generations.

Poor is bad. Then I wouldn't even be able to have one.
I suppose marriage would be pretty close too! But 7 years and almost 4 kids later, my ride still has a spot in the garage!

okfoz

for Capitalism

John

82TA_JAIME

iTrader: (1)

yea i have a neighbor who tried to get in the business of restoring and selling. But i guess he oversaw the amount of money it takes to restore a car(the right way) and sell em for a few grand more.
But nowadays you need to have at least 10k to even start doing that, considering you have a body to work with.
good thing about third gens is that theyre new enough that 90 percent of them arent completely torn up. which is why its so cheap for any of us to build one up.
unfortunately as the saying for our cars go, theyre too new to be classics and too old to be new. (or something like that)

okfoz

The first time I did my 1987 I had $7000 invested, that included me painting it, I redid the upholstery, I bought the covers already made, and I rebuilt the engine, and transmission all by myself...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I agree Iroctopless, I can't wait to see how much more people appreciate them in the coming years. Especially since so many seem to already!

mmadden55

Just enjoy your third gen. I enjoy mine.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

kizz

iTrader: (1)

"The fate of our third gen firebirds." Well, the elephant in the room is the pre-TPI cars. 82-84. The already-low number of enthusiasts (and parts) is always falling, and will not recover, no matter how long you wait. I have never really seen a "restored" 82-84, since most people use invalid parts from later years, and that's not restoration, so the fate of early thirdgens is to fade into obscurity, which is already well underway. Early thirdgens have more in common with secondgens than 85-92, and I'm not talking about compatibility, but feel/vibe. If someone happens to find a great deal on an early thirdgen, especially with aftermarket motor/trans upgrade, 4thgen interior, etc., they're more likely to get involved with it, but almost nobody seeks out stock examples. That's great, because it means there's more for me

StevenB L98/LS1

My third gen is driven daily, it gets me to work, school, hang with friends etc..., and im not rich at all, but im not poor either, ive had my third gen for a year now, and i just got done dumping all my hard earned money into the motor, because everything stock was falling apart or didnt work, stock radiator gone, new hoses, new starter, struts, strut mounts, new tires, new o2 sensor, the list is endless, AC serviced, water pump, ive pretty much replaced everything new accept rebuilding the motor. And most everything took me a whole year because im not rich, bills have to be payed. But the better i got it running and drove people really loved the car, the body appearence was the best part when i bought it and it still gets looks.

Like most say, i cant go pump gas for my car without somebody telling me WOW ive never seen a third gen in that good of shape in years, or even since they were new. Ive never had another vehicle that people really took notice of, and now that i do, it feels good to know you have something that people only wish to have.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

I guess it does, but I decided long ago that I don't need other ppl to tell me if my car is desirable or not. It's desirable to *me* and I paid well over market value for it ($9k in '01) because it's worth that to me. When people see my low-miler they're like "wow, that thing's just like new" but then when I tell them that it's rated at 165HP and has no overdrive, they're either dumbfounded, or tell me I should "drop a three-fitty in thar." If those are the people that are gonna critique my car, they can't be taken seriously. So, do you love your own ride? That's the only thing that counts.

DacMan

I agree that muscle cars of the 60's and 70's weren't worth **** at one time, but I think what some people might be missing is that in the 80's having a cool car, wasn't nearly as neat as in the 60's or 70's. Further the majority of the people born in the 80's today drive honda civics, and hybrids. For the most part the thirty year olds to forty year olds are rolling in women's cars, or v6 mustangs... hold on... a v6 mustang ROFL! Anyway my point is I don't think that there will be a surge like there was with the 60's and 70's muscle cars because I don't think people really care anyomore about what they drive, more about what kinda gas milage it gets.

StevenB L98/LS1

Yes i love my car. Love it more than if anybody says they love my car when they see it.

My whole life i wanted a third gen, and im always proud. Its just nice to hear that there are people out there that give me compliments about the car because they have a passion for them as well.

okfoz

This is what will ultimately pull the values of our cars upwards. Consider that you are not alone, there are thousands of people that feel the same way you do. Some people will eventually realize that they want a third Gen, they grew up with them, they were the cool car to own in the day, and they are still sexy... Ultimately people will start looking for their dream car, whether it is an 1987 IROC 350 with T-tops, a 1LE, a Firehawk, a TTA or 350 Convertible... So people will start seeking them out, as they are now. Eventually the nice ones will get snatched up by collectors and people that wanted one for a long time. This starts pushing up the values of those cars first that are the most desirable. This is the trend that I am seeing now.

Eventually the other cars' values like LB9's and HO's and the CFI cars will get some attention too, but never surpass the top dogs of the era. But the values will definitely be there.

People often complain about how slow the third gen really is, but very few people understand that not all of them are. a good running, all stock 350 car will keep up if not out perform in any kind of race a stock 350 of the 60's.

John

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Good post and very true on all counts. I was one of those people looking for an 87 L98 IROC-Z with T-Tops!

okfoz

You were the person I had in mind actually...

John

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Haha, nice!

SolarGoldRaptor

There a huge trend of 80's stuff in today's women fashion (I'm a fashion design student), so maybe that'll help 3rd Gens to be more popular

StevenB L98/LS1

3 people actually today kept asking me how the hell i found my car in such great condition. I told them i looked long and hard for a entire year until it came up. I wasnt even looking for a Trans Am, i was on the hunt for an IROC or a z28 atleast. You think the camaro being more common something would have showed up, but all i could grab were Trans Ams. I had a gentlemen today offer me 7K for the car. I said no. I could have easily of had 7 grand in my pocket today, but i refused. I have to much of my sweat and blood, and hard earned money into this car, it feels impossible to get rid of now because i love the car so much now even though i was never a trans am guy to begin with.

My point is the faint of our cars are so close to being valuable vehicles that in great shape. Just somebody offering me 7K today for it made me think of this thread, and how people are actually seeing more third gens disappear.

BigWhiteGTP

I selfishly don't want the value of 3rd gens to skyrocket. Throughout the years, people have bashed 3rd gens for no reason other than they aren't 1st, 2nd, or 4th, and now 5th gens. So now they want to snag one up so they can sell it and make money off it? Go on ebay and theres so many people who know nothing about these cars and trying to sell them and call a base firebird a GTA. Makes me sick. Let everything else inflate in value, but keep the bastard fbody generation where it should be, cheap, fun, and fast.

But I'll gladly take the rubber necking and the oohs and ahhs this thing gets on the daily.

82TA_JAIME

iTrader: (1)

i totally understand your train of thought. but on the other hand, maybe 4th gens will decrease in value as our 3rd gens and they'll be affordable and cheap to mod while our 3rd gens become the 'new' 2nd gen
i wouldnt mind owning both

okfoz

The values of the 4th gen is still decreasing, but the 3rd gen has been on a steady incilne, for some time, (economy adjusted).

One thing that many people are not aware of is inflation, because of inflation it will increase the value of our cars automatically. Here is why. Consider the dollar a stock certificate in a company. For each dollar you own, you own that much of the company. If you double the number of printed certificates, then in effect they have decreased the value of each of your certificates by half. Ultimately here is what happens...

The dollar is devalued
The stock market increases in number, but no real improvement has happened
The price you pay at the store is also increased.
The value of Gold & precious metals increases, just like store bought items.
The value of money the government owes to foreign countries is decreased.
The value of cars more or less remains a constant, but the prices will increase.

Ultimately the government really benefits from this, but the people do not.

John

HankL69

iTrader: (1)

I have owned first, second and third gen f-bodys. The first one was a '70 Z/28. Would have liked a 1st gen Camaro but they were starting to climb in price and the 2nd gens were depreciating. Kept it for 21 years and saw the value increase a lot. Bought my 1st gen 18 years ago when I decided I wanted a convertable. I really wanted a Camaro but couldn't find a solid one when the firebird showed up locally. I probably paid a little too much at the time but in my mind the car was worth it. Over time the value has gradually gone up. Bought my IROC when it was 10 years old. I bought it because I loved the styling from the first time I saw them . The value of my 3rd gen has never gone down, but, it hasn't gone up much either.
I'm sure that in time these cars will increase in value because as others have said every day more of them are scraped or wrecked. They are fun cars to drive. Better handeling then the 1st or 2nd gens. Great styling. And the cars that a lot of people dreamed of owning as kids. Supply and demand will make them more desireable. As with the older cars though, the change is slow. Top of the line models in excellent condition will always command the highest prices. Buy smart, take good care of it, enjoy it and don't worry about what might happen 10 or 20 years down the road.

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

For those who question if our cars will be worth something in the future.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=303&pop=0

A Monte SS went for over $20K & a Buick GN for over $35K

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Wow, that is an awesome looking car, 88 w/ digidash....too bad it's a 5.0

RockinGTA89

yeah i was gonna post about the gta that sold on barrett-jackson...i can't believe a 5.0L went for 21k!

wait for tommarow they got a 1991 1LE Camaro going and a TTA going on the block back to back (lot #622 and 623)! THEY BETTER SHOW THESE CARS on SPEED!
Let's see what these cars will go for !

okfoz

I know of a 1992 1LE Formula sold for $34,000??? It was in that area... Of course it was VIN 00001, Body 00001, Jamacia Yellow, and GM owned...

John

82TA_JAIME

iTrader: (1)

i guess it all depends on what options the car came with, and also what a buyer is looking for in his next car. i guess i'll hang on to my lg4 in case i have to sell the car later and people want originality.
btw okfoz... i never understood inflation til you explained it... thx

ROBERTDMERRILL

iTrader: (1)

This statement got me really thinking. Not that 80's fashion is coming back, which I beleive it is and I don't know why. It was silly then and its even more silly now. But about women and their role in todays buying power.

In my house hold my wife makes most of the decisions to buy big items. She either bugs me to agree to buy something or because she has a good job she can buy it herself. My wife and I are both in our late 30's and we both remember these cars. I had them and she had boyfriends that had them. So if she wanted to go back to her youth and buy a classic car she would buy a 80's muscle car.

So my point is that these 80's car have some intanglable that the 60's and 70's muscle cars didn't......women who might be interested enough to buy one.

I would say that maybe some women would want more of a comfortable, modern day, attractive, affordable, quite car and I think must 3rd gen fit that bill. They are more of a car that a women would be interested in then a hemi cuda or corba and will not cost $50K.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

here's what will happen.
Another idiot will trash a gta making them even more rare, and we will never know about it. It will silently get crushed and the total number left will decrease by 1 with us never knowing how many are left or what happened to them all.
(this 350 car is a recent insurance claim and will be sold for a thousand or less where it may be restored or crushed or parted or shipped over seas or who knows)




Meanwhile a collector will overpay for a gta and then get on these boards talking up the price so he feels better about his investment or can turn a profit, and other sheeple on this board will then also spread the hype the cars are worth more and more until it becomes the reality.

In the end everyone got screwed, one for giving the car away and one for paying to much and us for not being able to afford cars we want. Had the two idiots just got together both parties could have benefited.

And that's about what happens to any collectable car over the years.
In the end everyone loses because everyone pays more.

hardon85

A lot of very good points here

I agree 2nd generation camaros and firebirds are looking good nowadays but when I was a kid (somewhere in the early 90s) I thought second generation camaros were garbage I always thought that until just a few years ago when I read in hot rod magazine about a very nicely done 70-73 I can't remember the year but I know it was a split bumper that had an ls1 and a 6-speed put in it and I started to see some appeal in 2nd gens. Personally I think the 2nd gens got screwed worse than 3rd gens because of the gas crunch and American car makers really had no solution to this (fast forward 30 years and the story sounds eerily familiar).

As far as 3rd gen cars go personally I like them I know a lot of people don't but I love the way they look. What I think is cool is these in my opinion are the closest things to 60s muscle cars good and bad; crappy factory build quality, squeaky and full of rattles, crappy interiors with cracked dashes and ripped seats in not much time at all, but; amazingly awesome body styles and if you are into modding your car these cars are easy and unlike 60s muscle cars parts are very reasonable compared to other cars.

When I was in high school I almost bought 2 different ones but timing didn't work on one and the other one was rode hard and put away wet if you know what I mean. After high school I bought a 30th anniversary 4th gen camaro and this car was like a Cadillac compared to the 3rd gens I drove, amazingly, no rattles, very smooth ride and to top it all off this car easily got 30 miles to the gallon. Still I always wished I could have gotten one of these 2 3rd gens.

So I decided early this summer now that I'm 27 I would buy one now just for fun in the summer and since there everywhere I should be able to find one easy enough and parts are cheap. I decided $2000 was all I was gonna spend and I wanted a manual transmission. Initially I wanted a convertible and found a few of them but they were either way out of my price range or were gonna take to much to get road worthy again. So I talked to my wife and we decided to get a t-top 5speed car I started looking all over Minnesota Iowa and South Dakota and I couldn't find one that was satisfactory to our standards anyway. I found the one I want in Milwaukee WI over 8 hours away. it wasn't like I wanted a real special car or anything just a t top 5 speed the closest decent one is over 8 hours away. Needless to say I will be getting this car because well I am sick of looking at craigslist and this one is in great mechanical shape. however it does need bodywork but I don't see these getting easier to find.

So to those that think these cars are everywhere, that's not necessarily true anymore these are getting more and more rare everyday. It hasn't helped the value to much yet but I promise these cars will be desirable someday, I promise you

BigBadGTA

I am 17 and have had my 1988 350TPI GTA for a little over a year now. I have gotten tons and tons of attention from it, some good and some not so good. Like everyone else, I have gotten the usual compliments while pumping gas, that kind of stuff. People trying to buy it, etc. I get a lot of respect for looking so young and having it. Lots of fun times I have had in that car. So many ricers put to shame, so many girls wanting rides, so many compliments. The car show I take my car to every Saturday is cars and coffee Las Vegas. It is held in an exotic car dealership lot, with some extremely high caliber cars there. Lambos, ferrarris, everything.People still come look at my car, when its parked next to about 10 5th gen camaros. I watch and I see them smiling, and telling stories, and taking pictures. Its a pretty cool feeling. One of the coolest compliments I got here in Vegas was surprisingly from a Vegas metro cop. He was a younger guy, prolly mid 20s. I was doing the speed limit and saw him pull onto the street I was on. I saw him come up behind me real quick and I thought he was going to run my outta state plates, or pull me over. But he ends up getting next to me, I look over and he puts up his thumb and shouts "That car rocks!" I had a smile on my face for the rest of the day. This happened right after an older guy told me it was sweet as I was getting in it to leave in a rich part of Henderson. Even if someone came up to me right now and offered to give me 20K for it in cash I would still say no.

FYRCHKN

That sir, is sig worthy....Do you mind if I use it?

Mudskunk

dunno, i only slightly disagree. most folks that go into a full restoration do it out of love for the vehicle. a new 2010 camaro runs about 30-35k$ for the top end version. when my business finall matured and i sold part of it i could have paid cash and walked of the lot with one when they first showed up. i chose to buy a firebird and bring it back to like new condition. i love the firebirds. if i just wanted a fast car i could have gone with a vette or a camaro of the newest models but thats not why i wanted a sports car. my firebird isnt the fastest car out there but its a firebird formula with a 350 and i love driving it. its a head turner in the condition its in. there are not many that are all original and look like they rolled off the showroom floor.

if i had more garage space i would pick up an old 80's mustang and an old 80's ford escort EXP. those cars i grew up driving along with the firebird. the firebird was my favorite. i drive a chevy 2003 x-cab silverado 4wd as a daily driver and work truck.

anyway its not always about what a person can get in return for the money spent. sometimes once acquired those vehicles just wont be re-sold.

okfoz

I priced out a 2010 Camaro 2SS Bumblebee it came to almost $40K ( and I get the employee Discount )... and I was not done yet adding options. I quit & went home in dismay...

John

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

I'd parked my Firebird for about 5 years until I started slowly fixing it up again. By 3rd Gen terms it's nothing special--1990 maroon V6 w/ T-tops. It's still a way from being done. Recently, I bought a 01 yellow Corvette convertible as my daily car, and my wife began hinting that I don't need two sports cars after getting the Corvette. I briefly thought about selling the Firebird, but there is no way I can sell my first car--even if it takes up half the garage. Maybe I'm crazy, but if push comes to shove it's not the Firebird that's getting sold!!!