ws7?
09-15-2011, 01:26 PM
#51
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Re: ws7?
This makes my head hurt, so bear with me.
1) Yes the Base Firebird had the V6 as standard equip (I am assuming 1987+) They were MPFI... Ok so far so good...
2) Nope, the Formula came Standard with WS6, there was no option other than WS6 it was the only way it came, it is the FE2 Suspension.
3) TRANS AM & FORMULA
a) 1987 - 4BBL (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
b) 1988-89 - TBI (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
c) TRANS AM 90-92 - TPI 5.0 (S), TPI 5.7 (O)
d) FORMULA 90-92 - TBI (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
4) GTA - 5.7 (S) 5.0 TPI (O) Keep in mind some years the 5.0 TPI was NA with the Automatic in the GTA.
5) WS6 suspension had 36mm front sway bars and 24mm rear sway bars from 1986 & UP, I think 1985 as well, but I have to look into it.
Starting in 1989, all rear discs got the PBR "1LE" rear Discs that were introduced in 1988, and used in the Players series as early as 1986. The front discs remained the same. It was an attempt to reduce the different parts on the cars more than anything as they used more similar components with the Drum brake cars. I believe it was a means to reduce confusing on the line.
The rear brakes had nothing to do with WS6 after 1986,
The Van plant you are referring to used a method I believe it was called R.O.T. Rite On Time. More or less it was a means to keep inventory low. The Vendors were assigned the duty of actually inspecting their parts, and the parts would go right to the place in the assembly line where it was needed, and probably were not inspected at the plant. Japan had been doing this for years, it reduced labor costs at the plant. Its kind of where the ISO "QS 9000" series of Quality management grew out of.
1) Yes the Base Firebird had the V6 as standard equip (I am assuming 1987+) They were MPFI... Ok so far so good...
2) Nope, the Formula came Standard with WS6, there was no option other than WS6 it was the only way it came, it is the FE2 Suspension.
3) TRANS AM & FORMULA
a) 1987 - 4BBL (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
b) 1988-89 - TBI (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
c) TRANS AM 90-92 - TPI 5.0 (S), TPI 5.7 (O)
d) FORMULA 90-92 - TBI (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
4) GTA - 5.7 (S) 5.0 TPI (O) Keep in mind some years the 5.0 TPI was NA with the Automatic in the GTA.
5) WS6 suspension had 36mm front sway bars and 24mm rear sway bars from 1986 & UP, I think 1985 as well, but I have to look into it.
Starting in 1989, all rear discs got the PBR "1LE" rear Discs that were introduced in 1988, and used in the Players series as early as 1986. The front discs remained the same. It was an attempt to reduce the different parts on the cars more than anything as they used more similar components with the Drum brake cars. I believe it was a means to reduce confusing on the line.
The rear brakes had nothing to do with WS6 after 1986,
The Van plant you are referring to used a method I believe it was called R.O.T. Rite On Time. More or less it was a means to keep inventory low. The Vendors were assigned the duty of actually inspecting their parts, and the parts would go right to the place in the assembly line where it was needed, and probably were not inspected at the plant. Japan had been doing this for years, it reduced labor costs at the plant. Its kind of where the ISO "QS 9000" series of Quality management grew out of.
09-15-2011, 04:24 PM
#53
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Re: ws7?
09-15-2011, 04:52 PM
#54
Re: ws7?
It's a 1989 Trans Am with the base model 305 TBI engine. Do a search for threads discussing how to tell if a Trans Am is a GTA, or just Google the GTA source page and read there. As pointed out there were no domestic GTA's with the TBI 305, the TPI 305 and 350 were the only options.
Last edited by Drew; 09-15-2011 at 06:43 PM. Reason: typo
09-15-2011, 06:17 PM
#56
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Re: ws7?
[quote=AmorgetRS;5041118]You have a Trans Am, as long as it is a domestic production car... which there is no reason to assume it's not. The 8th digit of the VIN is E, which means 305 TBI. 305 TBI was the base engine, like Drew said, and no available in i apprciate the response.The state of Mo also has it titled as an 89.Thank You,panhead201
09-15-2011, 06:26 PM
#58
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09-15-2011, 06:41 PM
#60
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Re: ws7?
i just went to the General Motors website.The 10th digit of my vin is a K 1989.Maybe they want to buy a bridge,too.I'm going to make a copy of this title and post it on this website.panhead201
09-15-2011, 06:47 PM
#62
Re: ws7?
If you want to identify the car as a GTA or not, read this page...
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/newauthentication.html
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/newauthentication.html
09-15-2011, 06:51 PM
#63
Re: ws7?
Model year, 89, as Drew clarified above.
Trans Am vs GTA, that website that you linked to said GTA, however we have clearly established that it is NOT a GTA, it's a Trans Am due to what motor it came with. VIN decoders are notoriously wrong as far as the "submodel". With Thirdgens you VIN cannot directly tell a Firebird from a Firebird Formula, a Trans Am from a GTA, or any of the Camaro submodels apart. Indirectly it can be figured out due to engine availability sometimes, but a lot of the engines were available in other submodels, such as the 305/350 TPI being available in the Trans Am and the GTA and the 305 TBI being available in the Firebird and the Firebird Formula.
I don't think there are any mysteries left here...
09-15-2011, 10:35 PM
#64
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Car: 86WS6 30K and 82WS7 24K
Engine: 86:305 TPI, 82: 305 LG4
Transmission: 86:700R4, 82: T200C
Axle/Gears: 86:3:27 9 bolt, 82: 3:23 10 bolt
Re: ws7?
---------------------------------------------------
For History's sake, let me try to clarify the post above.
The casual reader may think that the 700R4 was available in 1982 or 83, based on this post.
The only automatic available in 1982 or 83 was the infamous 200c (Chevette) tranny. The 700R4 was a judicious replacement. GM replaced my 82 TA's 200c just before 30K. That was the avg life of the 200c behind an unabused V8. I had to pay for each and every 200c after that at regular 30k intervals.
I had to reread the orig post regarding the "base" TA he talked about.
I think we both agree that it was not a WS6/WS7 car since it had the 14" Turbocast wheels. The WS6 cars all came w/the 15" Turbocast wheels in '82 & 83. The 14" wheels on an 82/83 T/A signal a WS4 car.
For History's sake, let me try to clarify the post above.
The casual reader may think that the 700R4 was available in 1982 or 83, based on this post.
The only automatic available in 1982 or 83 was the infamous 200c (Chevette) tranny. The 700R4 was a judicious replacement. GM replaced my 82 TA's 200c just before 30K. That was the avg life of the 200c behind an unabused V8. I had to pay for each and every 200c after that at regular 30k intervals.
I had to reread the orig post regarding the "base" TA he talked about.
I think we both agree that it was not a WS6/WS7 car since it had the 14" Turbocast wheels. The WS6 cars all came w/the 15" Turbocast wheels in '82 & 83. The 14" wheels on an 82/83 T/A signal a WS4 car.
09-15-2011, 11:03 PM
#65
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Re: ws7?
Even if you read it multiple times, you still did not read it correctly, or else someone has given you some incorrect information:Car number 1) Purchased 10/82. 1983 Trans AM WS6, Crossfire 305, 700R4 Automatic Overdrive, 15 inch Turbo Mag wheels. Many 83 TA's came with the 700R4. The 82's came with the T200.Car number 2) Purchased 01/01/83. 1983 Trans AM WS7, 305 4 barrel, manual trans, 15 inch Turbo Mag wheels.Car number 3) Purchased 10/83. 1983 Trans Am Base model, 305 4 barrel, 700R4 Automatic Overdrive, 14 inch Turbo Mag wheels. I have seen some 83 base Firebirds and Camaros with T200's, however many 83's came factory stock with 700R4's.I purchased all three cars brand new. The WS6 and WS7 were bought from Griner Chevrolet/Pontiac in Quitman GA, and the base car was purchased from Tommy Griner Pontiac/Cadilliac in Valdosta GA. The WS6 and WS7 cars were both on the showroom floor, and the base model was new left-over inventory as some 84's had been delivered
09-16-2011, 07:42 AM
#66
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
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Re: ws7?
Both of my 83's had the 700R4, both were V8's Starting in 1983 all V8's and V6's I thought got a variant of the 700, only the I4 got the T200 IIRC. There may have been some form of V6 that got the T200 but I am not aware of it. Also the 5 Speed was introduced in 1983, except for the I4 still got the 4 Speed.
John
John
09-16-2011, 07:42 AM
#67
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
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09-16-2011, 08:49 AM
#68
Re: ws7?
For domestic sale 1983 F-bodies, the V6 HO and V8 automatic transmission option was the TH700R4. The I4 and base V6 automatic option was still the TH200C. Canadian and export V8 cars could still get the TH200C in 1983.
xcalibur also mentions that 14" wheels identify a WS4 car. WS4 is the RPO for the Trans Am model and not the suspension option. Y99 is the RPO for the Level II suspension that was standard on Firebird S/E and Trans Ams. I'd say he's misinformed.
xcalibur also mentions that 14" wheels identify a WS4 car. WS4 is the RPO for the Trans Am model and not the suspension option. Y99 is the RPO for the Level II suspension that was standard on Firebird S/E and Trans Ams. I'd say he's misinformed.
09-16-2011, 11:47 AM
#70
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Re: ws7?
It is the lack of a comma between 'V6' & 'HO'.
I had a 1984 Z28 with the L69 HO 305/700R4 years ago.
I had a 1984 Z28 with the L69 HO 305/700R4 years ago.
09-16-2011, 12:22 PM
#71
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Re: ws7?
This thing looks perfect,drives great,has 37,000 mi.The less it's worth the better.I'm shreddin it to be a race car.I just did'nt want to tear apart some one in a million thing.That was the reason for my hesitancee?confusion?Thanks for all your help.Panhead201
09-16-2011, 01:51 PM
#72
Re: ws7?
The "HO" V6 was RPO LL1, rated at 125HP. Produced '83-84 and the standard engine in the Firebird S/E for those years. The base V6 was RPO LC1 and rated at 102HP. Produced from '82-84. Both engines had a 2-bbl carburetor.
I should add that beginning 2/1/83, the I4 and LC1 V6 could be optioned with the TH700R4 automatic transmission instead of the TH200C.
I should add that beginning 2/1/83, the I4 and LC1 V6 could be optioned with the TH700R4 automatic transmission instead of the TH200C.
09-16-2011, 01:56 PM
#73
Re: ws7?
The "HO" V6 was RPO LL1, rated at 125HP. Produced '83-84 and the standard engine in the Firebird S/E for those years. The base V6 was RPO LC1 and rated at 102HP. Produced from '82-84. Both engines had a 2-bbl carburetor.
I should add that beginning 2/1/83, the I4 and LC1 V6 could be optioned with the TH700R4 automatic transmission instead of the TH200C.
I should add that beginning 2/1/83, the I4 and LC1 V6 could be optioned with the TH700R4 automatic transmission instead of the TH200C.
09-16-2011, 03:01 PM
#74
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Axle/Gears: 3.23 / 3.42 Auburn / 3.23 / 2.62
Re: ws7?
The last thing I intend to do is get to this level.If you read the sentence you just wrote,you failed to put a space between your posts and I mean.If you did it to illustrate my mistakes,point taken.Capitalizing the B after a comma is a great example.If I continue to respond to any further posts I will proof read anything I send.In the little accident I was involved in in the mid 80,s I damaged my spinal cord.This led to the loss of most of the feeling in my fingers.It's making the mechanical side of this endeavor a little difficult because I refuse to ask for help.I can imagine the effect it's had on my typing,never a strong suit to begin with.I'll strive to improve my grammatical skills.Thank You,panhead201
As for the V6 HO talked about above, Motor Trend rated it at 135hp in an '83 S/E road test. It was indeed a real engine, for only '83 I believe. It was the HO 2.8 carbed engine developed for the Citation X-11, and was never offered in the Camaro. MT tested the S/E with a WS6 suspension package, and claimed they liked the overall car better than either of the '82 V8 TAs tested the previous year.
Sadly, no performance numbers were given in the article...it was one of their shorter "First Test" formats. If it performed the same as the later MPFI 2.8 V6s that had the same HP rating, I'd guess the 0-60 for the 5 speed was in the mid-10s...however, being carbed, the power curve likely wasn't as good and was therefore likely slower than a later MPFI car.
09-25-2016, 05:56 PM
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Re: ws7?
Dear Members!
I would like to get a few opinions.
I have a 91 V6 3.1L Firebird with 700R4, all base, and a 82 Norwood T/A what will be sold soon.
It had the WS7 rear, i removed it, to may i will be used on my 91 car or sold separately.
I have the following questions:
The strengthen arm which lead up to the tranny has a few factory cut outs in it while my 91 car not.
This is for more strength or its weaker?
I know the front bumpers also had cutouts in the first 2 year, which was deleted later, and became a solid piece.
So which i had to chose?
As i counted by wheel/shaft turns it has 3.23 read diff in it while my v6 has 2.73 as i know, but not sure. Anyway the factory ratio.
What can happen if i leave it as is, or better if i buy parts to change it to 2.73?
I looking for the answers for if i keep the 3.23 ratio after the swap:
My car will loose or gain rpm on a same speed?
I will lose or gain HP or Torq?
And what about the MPG?
IF i want to change it back to the v6 stock raito what parts i need to buy exactly?
Please name it to i can find on rockauto, or share a few part numbers with me.
When i dismounted i noticed it has diferent rear springs as the v6. th v6 has 2 lower circle at the springs top, while the ws7 had 4. But for human pressure test they looked same softness. What i should keep?
Also for the sway bar looked same size, but i will measure it tomorrow to be sure.
Finally, some friend says the whole swap wont worth it, because my v6 wont have enough power to turn both tires. Personally i did not drive hard, I just hoping better control, if the car spins for some reason, i meant the dif wont change direction like the factory one, also it did not need replacing any brake parts on my car like poposion valve brake cables etc because the drums, so i think it worth to do it, but its true?
I will wait for any reply. Laszlo
I would like to get a few opinions.
I have a 91 V6 3.1L Firebird with 700R4, all base, and a 82 Norwood T/A what will be sold soon.
It had the WS7 rear, i removed it, to may i will be used on my 91 car or sold separately.
I have the following questions:
The strengthen arm which lead up to the tranny has a few factory cut outs in it while my 91 car not.
This is for more strength or its weaker?
I know the front bumpers also had cutouts in the first 2 year, which was deleted later, and became a solid piece.
So which i had to chose?
As i counted by wheel/shaft turns it has 3.23 read diff in it while my v6 has 2.73 as i know, but not sure. Anyway the factory ratio.
What can happen if i leave it as is, or better if i buy parts to change it to 2.73?
I looking for the answers for if i keep the 3.23 ratio after the swap:
My car will loose or gain rpm on a same speed?
I will lose or gain HP or Torq?
And what about the MPG?
IF i want to change it back to the v6 stock raito what parts i need to buy exactly?
Please name it to i can find on rockauto, or share a few part numbers with me.
When i dismounted i noticed it has diferent rear springs as the v6. th v6 has 2 lower circle at the springs top, while the ws7 had 4. But for human pressure test they looked same softness. What i should keep?
Also for the sway bar looked same size, but i will measure it tomorrow to be sure.
Finally, some friend says the whole swap wont worth it, because my v6 wont have enough power to turn both tires. Personally i did not drive hard, I just hoping better control, if the car spins for some reason, i meant the dif wont change direction like the factory one, also it did not need replacing any brake parts on my car like poposion valve brake cables etc because the drums, so i think it worth to do it, but its true?
I will wait for any reply. Laszlo
09-25-2016, 06:52 PM
#77
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Car: 86WS6 30K and 82WS7 24K
Engine: 86:305 TPI, 82: 305 LG4
Transmission: 86:700R4, 82: T200C
Axle/Gears: 86:3:27 9 bolt, 82: 3:23 10 bolt
Re: ws7?
Dear Members!
I would like to get a few opinions.
I have a 91 V6 3.1L Firebird with 700R4, all base, and a 82 Norwood T/A what will be sold soon.
It had the WS7 rear, i removed it, to may i will be used on my 91 car or sold separately.
I have the following questions:
The strengthen arm which lead up to the tranny has a few factory cut outs in it while my 91 car not.
The cutouts are to save weight. It is doubtful that using the one with cutouts vs the one without will make any difference, especially on a V6 car.
This is for more strength or its weaker?
I know the front bumpers also had cutouts in the first 2 year, which was deleted later, and became a solid piece.
As for the bumper, choose the one that is in the best condition and will suit your build. It's a non-issue
So which i had to chose?
As i counted by wheel/shaft turns it has 3.23 read diff in it while my v6 has 2.73 as i know, but not sure. Anyway the factory ratio.
What can happen if i leave it as is, or better if i buy parts to change it to 2.73?
I looking for the answers for if i keep the 3.23 ratio after the swap:
My car will loose or gain rpm on a same speed?
The 3:23 gear will allow your engine to turn a slightly higher RPM at the same speed as the 2:73 gear. With an automatic overdrive it will not make a lot if difference at cruising speed.
I will lose or gain HP or Torq?
You will gain a little torque. HP will remain the same. Your car will be faster from a standing start with the 3:23 gear.
And what about the MPG?
MPG may change slightly, however driving conditions will be a factor. If you are running high speed on a flat highway the 2:73 might be slightly more economical. If you drive stop and go, or hilly terrain, the 3:23 will make up the difference.
IF i want to change it back to the v6 stock raito what parts i need to buy exactly?
Don't bother, the 3:23 is a better gear.
Please name it to i can find on rockauto, or share a few part numbers with me.
If you have a good, solid, quiet WS6 diff, enjoy it like it is. It will give your V-6 car little more performance. Don't forget to recalibrate the speedometer.
When i dismounted i noticed it has diferent rear springs as the v6. th v6 has 2 lower circle at the springs top, while the ws7 had 4. But for human pressure test they looked same softness. What i should keep?
WS6 springs=stiffer ride, better handling.
Also for the sway bar looked same size, but i will measure it tomorrow to be sure.
If it is truly a WS6 rear the sway bar will be a lot bigger/thicker.
Finally, some friend says the whole swap wont worth it, because my v6 wont have enough power to turn both tires. Personally i did not drive hard, I just hoping better control, if the car spins for some reason, i meant the dif wont change direction like the factory one, also it did not need replacing any brake parts on my car like poposion valve brake cables etc because the drums, so i think it worth to do it, but its true?
What sort of logic is that? Both tires turn either way. On an open diff, one wheel does moves the car, while the other wheel coasts. On a posi or limited slip diff both wheels pull the car. The V6 probably won't spin both wheels, however do you want wheel spin or traction? A posi diff will give you better traction on the road, but will not put any more stress on your engine. The 3:23 gear will allow the engine to turn slightly higher RPM which will increase the amount of torque your car puts to the ground.
I can't answer your brake questions. Someone else surely will.
I will wait for any reply. Laszlo
I would like to get a few opinions.
I have a 91 V6 3.1L Firebird with 700R4, all base, and a 82 Norwood T/A what will be sold soon.
It had the WS7 rear, i removed it, to may i will be used on my 91 car or sold separately.
I have the following questions:
The strengthen arm which lead up to the tranny has a few factory cut outs in it while my 91 car not.
The cutouts are to save weight. It is doubtful that using the one with cutouts vs the one without will make any difference, especially on a V6 car.
This is for more strength or its weaker?
I know the front bumpers also had cutouts in the first 2 year, which was deleted later, and became a solid piece.
As for the bumper, choose the one that is in the best condition and will suit your build. It's a non-issue
So which i had to chose?
As i counted by wheel/shaft turns it has 3.23 read diff in it while my v6 has 2.73 as i know, but not sure. Anyway the factory ratio.
What can happen if i leave it as is, or better if i buy parts to change it to 2.73?
I looking for the answers for if i keep the 3.23 ratio after the swap:
My car will loose or gain rpm on a same speed?
The 3:23 gear will allow your engine to turn a slightly higher RPM at the same speed as the 2:73 gear. With an automatic overdrive it will not make a lot if difference at cruising speed.
I will lose or gain HP or Torq?
You will gain a little torque. HP will remain the same. Your car will be faster from a standing start with the 3:23 gear.
And what about the MPG?
MPG may change slightly, however driving conditions will be a factor. If you are running high speed on a flat highway the 2:73 might be slightly more economical. If you drive stop and go, or hilly terrain, the 3:23 will make up the difference.
IF i want to change it back to the v6 stock raito what parts i need to buy exactly?
Don't bother, the 3:23 is a better gear.
Please name it to i can find on rockauto, or share a few part numbers with me.
If you have a good, solid, quiet WS6 diff, enjoy it like it is. It will give your V-6 car little more performance. Don't forget to recalibrate the speedometer.
When i dismounted i noticed it has diferent rear springs as the v6. th v6 has 2 lower circle at the springs top, while the ws7 had 4. But for human pressure test they looked same softness. What i should keep?
WS6 springs=stiffer ride, better handling.
Also for the sway bar looked same size, but i will measure it tomorrow to be sure.
If it is truly a WS6 rear the sway bar will be a lot bigger/thicker.
Finally, some friend says the whole swap wont worth it, because my v6 wont have enough power to turn both tires. Personally i did not drive hard, I just hoping better control, if the car spins for some reason, i meant the dif wont change direction like the factory one, also it did not need replacing any brake parts on my car like poposion valve brake cables etc because the drums, so i think it worth to do it, but its true?
What sort of logic is that? Both tires turn either way. On an open diff, one wheel does moves the car, while the other wheel coasts. On a posi or limited slip diff both wheels pull the car. The V6 probably won't spin both wheels, however do you want wheel spin or traction? A posi diff will give you better traction on the road, but will not put any more stress on your engine. The 3:23 gear will allow the engine to turn slightly higher RPM which will increase the amount of torque your car puts to the ground.
I can't answer your brake questions. Someone else surely will.
I will wait for any reply. Laszlo
I hope this helps a little...
09-25-2016, 06:57 PM
#78
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Transmission: 4spd Automatic
Re: ws7?
Cool car, but how helps? Its an option loaded rare color combination trans am with the 16 GTA rims. And not my poor v6. Not comparable to me.
09-25-2016, 07:07 PM
#79
09-25-2016, 07:26 PM
#80
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Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.1L 189CUI
Transmission: 4spd Automatic
Re: ws7?
I read trough your read, thanks for the reply.
A few more thing i need to know.
Which type gears i have in my tranny for drive and driven gear to i can chose what i need a new driven or drive gear and how many theet. Good online calibrators are available i know, i just need to check my starting point. I plan to keep my 215/65/R15s or may will replace them to 235/61R15 which is almost the same. so there not matter.
About the rpm change, Can i calculate it somehow or somewhere at online?
In my location Not many hilly areas are, and i mostly travel by 32 in city or 40 where tables let it. Out city 55 for sure. Highway 80 this is the legal limits here.
My V6 runs around 1200-1500 in city and out contentiously, and for starting and switching to gears 1600-1800RPM idle is 950-970. My mpg is fairly the factory too yet. So as far as i know my car runs as it was planned in the factory. Not an asphalt digging machine, but i like it as is. But if i can make it a but better i wont stand back
If you have any tips about the RPM change rate, feel free to let me know.
A few more thing i need to know.
Which type gears i have in my tranny for drive and driven gear to i can chose what i need a new driven or drive gear and how many theet. Good online calibrators are available i know, i just need to check my starting point. I plan to keep my 215/65/R15s or may will replace them to 235/61R15 which is almost the same. so there not matter.
About the rpm change, Can i calculate it somehow or somewhere at online?
In my location Not many hilly areas are, and i mostly travel by 32 in city or 40 where tables let it. Out city 55 for sure. Highway 80 this is the legal limits here.
My V6 runs around 1200-1500 in city and out contentiously, and for starting and switching to gears 1600-1800RPM idle is 950-970. My mpg is fairly the factory too yet. So as far as i know my car runs as it was planned in the factory. Not an asphalt digging machine, but i like it as is. But if i can make it a but better i wont stand back
If you have any tips about the RPM change rate, feel free to let me know.
09-25-2016, 08:22 PM
#81
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Car: 86WS6 30K and 82WS7 24K
Engine: 86:305 TPI, 82: 305 LG4
Transmission: 86:700R4, 82: T200C
Axle/Gears: 86:3:27 9 bolt, 82: 3:23 10 bolt
Re: ws7?
Does your car have a mechanical speedometer, or electronic?
If it has a mechanical speedometer, you can go to one of the online calculators, enter your tire diameter, gear ratio, and the calculator will suggest the correct speedometer gear to use. You may still have to play with the gears a little to get it as accurate as you can.
As for your transmission gears, why do you want to change those?
A 2:73 gear is a highway gear designed to give your car maximum fuel economy. A 3:23 gear is still considered a highway gear but is supposed to be a compromise between highway gearing with slightly higher performance. Your four speed automatic trans has an overdrive gear for fourth gear meaning that the tail shaft on the trans will be spinning slower then the crankshaft. The 2:73 gear means that your crankshaft turns 2:73 times for every one revolution of your rear wells, but that is only when the transmission is in third gear because third gear is direct meaning that the input shaft and output shaft are moving the same RPM. Of course your driveshaft always turns 2:73 times for every one revolution of your wheels.
If it has a mechanical speedometer, you can go to one of the online calculators, enter your tire diameter, gear ratio, and the calculator will suggest the correct speedometer gear to use. You may still have to play with the gears a little to get it as accurate as you can.
As for your transmission gears, why do you want to change those?
A 2:73 gear is a highway gear designed to give your car maximum fuel economy. A 3:23 gear is still considered a highway gear but is supposed to be a compromise between highway gearing with slightly higher performance. Your four speed automatic trans has an overdrive gear for fourth gear meaning that the tail shaft on the trans will be spinning slower then the crankshaft. The 2:73 gear means that your crankshaft turns 2:73 times for every one revolution of your rear wells, but that is only when the transmission is in third gear because third gear is direct meaning that the input shaft and output shaft are moving the same RPM. Of course your driveshaft always turns 2:73 times for every one revolution of your wheels.
09-26-2016, 08:44 AM
#82
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: ws7?
Dear Members!
I would like to get a few opinions.
It had the WS7 rear, i removed it, to may i will be used on my 91 car or sold separately.
I have the following questions:
The strengthen arm which lead up to the tranny has a few factory cut outs in it while my 91 car not.
As i counted by wheel/shaft turns it has 3.23 read diff in it while my v6 has 2.73 as i know, but not sure. Anyway the factory ratio.
What can happen if i leave it as is, or better if i buy parts to change it to 2.73?
I looking for the answers for if i keep the 3.23 ratio after the swap:
My car will loose or gain rpm on a same speed?
I will lose or gain HP or Torq?
And what about the MPG?
IF i want to change it back to the v6 stock raito what parts i need to buy exactly?
Please name it to i can find on rockauto, or share a few part numbers with me.
When i dismounted i noticed it has diferent rear springs as the v6. th v6 has 2 lower circle at the springs top, while the ws7 had 4. But for human pressure test they looked same softness. What i should keep?
Also for the sway bar looked same size, but i will measure it tomorrow to be sure.
Finally, some friend says the whole swap wont worth it, because my v6 wont have enough power to turn both tires. Personally i did not drive hard, I just hoping better control, if the car spins for some reason, i meant the dif wont change direction like the factory one, also it did not need replacing any brake parts on my car like poposion valve brake cables etc because the drums, so i think it worth to do it, but its true?
I will wait for any reply. Laszlo
I would like to get a few opinions.
It had the WS7 rear, i removed it, to may i will be used on my 91 car or sold separately.
I have the following questions:
The strengthen arm which lead up to the tranny has a few factory cut outs in it while my 91 car not.
As i counted by wheel/shaft turns it has 3.23 read diff in it while my v6 has 2.73 as i know, but not sure. Anyway the factory ratio.
What can happen if i leave it as is, or better if i buy parts to change it to 2.73?
I looking for the answers for if i keep the 3.23 ratio after the swap:
My car will loose or gain rpm on a same speed?
I will lose or gain HP or Torq?
And what about the MPG?
IF i want to change it back to the v6 stock raito what parts i need to buy exactly?
Please name it to i can find on rockauto, or share a few part numbers with me.
When i dismounted i noticed it has diferent rear springs as the v6. th v6 has 2 lower circle at the springs top, while the ws7 had 4. But for human pressure test they looked same softness. What i should keep?
Also for the sway bar looked same size, but i will measure it tomorrow to be sure.
Finally, some friend says the whole swap wont worth it, because my v6 wont have enough power to turn both tires. Personally i did not drive hard, I just hoping better control, if the car spins for some reason, i meant the dif wont change direction like the factory one, also it did not need replacing any brake parts on my car like poposion valve brake cables etc because the drums, so i think it worth to do it, but its true?
I will wait for any reply. Laszlo
Your 1991 already should have the 3.23 gear, so you will not gain anything performance wise. Look at your SPID, it should have "GU5" which indicates the 3.23 Ratio. The only thing you would gain would be the limited slip axle, which would help you go through the snow, probably about it. The 82-83 axles also have a 7.5" Ring gear, vs the 84-92 which have a 7.625" Ring Gear, not a huge difference, and it does not change the performance, just the later axles are a bit better.
John
09-26-2016, 04:57 PM
#83
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Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.1L 189CUI
Transmission: 4spd Automatic
Re: ws7?
Mine is electronic for sure. The stock one, winch utilize the small yellow buffer box for the vss.
This way as i know i also need to change the speedo gearing.
As far as i know V8 and V6 cars has different ratio.
The 82 car was a Norwood built CFI 5.0L Literally a 83 model year because 82/11 build date, and had several 83 things like the slim T shiter handle Lear Siegler seats and the later horn logo steering wheel.
My 91 is a Van nuis built serie car, but its a 07 month car and had the later style pull down motor for the rear glass, so possibly the last (92 modell year built) edition of the 3 gen area.
I'm not sure what gear raito have right now in tham.
This way as i know i also need to change the speedo gearing.
As far as i know V8 and V6 cars has different ratio.
The 82 car was a Norwood built CFI 5.0L Literally a 83 model year because 82/11 build date, and had several 83 things like the slim T shiter handle Lear Siegler seats and the later horn logo steering wheel.
My 91 is a Van nuis built serie car, but its a 07 month car and had the later style pull down motor for the rear glass, so possibly the last (92 modell year built) edition of the 3 gen area.
I'm not sure what gear raito have right now in tham.
09-27-2016, 07:43 PM
#84
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Posts: 14,235
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: ws7?
Like I was saying, the 1991 should have the 3.23 unless it was changed for some reason. From 1990-1992 All V6 cars with the Auto got the 3.23, and the Manual got the 3.42. There was no option like the V8 cars....
The WS7/WS6 Trans Am (I own an 83 WS6 car) had the 3.23... I really have not done any digging to whether or not there was another option with the WS6 LG4 cars... I think the L69 Cars got the 3.73 gear, which if you have one of those will make a difference in performance. Because the 83 is a cable driven speedo, and the 91 is an electronic speedo, I do not think that the gears would work... Might be wrong, but Im not sure if they used the same speedo gears.
The WS7/WS6 Trans Am (I own an 83 WS6 car) had the 3.23... I really have not done any digging to whether or not there was another option with the WS6 LG4 cars... I think the L69 Cars got the 3.73 gear, which if you have one of those will make a difference in performance. Because the 83 is a cable driven speedo, and the 91 is an electronic speedo, I do not think that the gears would work... Might be wrong, but Im not sure if they used the same speedo gears.
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