mechanic58

I have an opportunity to acquire a very, very nice, un-molested '91 1LE 5-speed car. This car is a Texas car and it has less than 40k original miles on it. It is in pristine condition. Car was bought new in Texas and has been in Texas its entire life - garage kept. I am wondering if anyone has a good idea what this car might be worth? (I did read the sticky thread, it really doesn't apply to this car). I don't have a pic to post at the moment - but just assume the car is in "as new" condition - literally.

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pull the trigger on it.

eseibel67

I'm not sure what it's worth, but it hardly matters. If it's in the condition you describe, you won't go wrong with that one.

mechanic58

I'm going to be doing some trading for the car - I know about what my trade is worth. I just don't wanna do the deal only to find out this car might only bring $7500 someday if I ever needed to unload it.

I've been a car guy all my life - I've owned a TON of third gen Camaros and Firebirds over the years. To date I don't think I ever got more than about 3k out of any of them when I got rid of them. They just never seemed like money cars to me - even a nice one.

I do realize the early 1LE cars are very special...but still.

eseibel67

Few if any third gens will ever be $ cars, but an unmolested 5 speed 1LE has to be as guaranteed to hold value as anything in this category possibly could.

mechanic58

I am seriously considering it. I still have not seen the car in person, but I have no doubt it is in as-new condition. I am going to go look at it and drive it later this week. I am optimistic. I really, really do enjoy driving a nice 5-speed 3rd gen. They truly are great cars. I've owned several - my favorite being an '84 Pace car edition Trans Am with the L69 HO 305, T-5 and a 3.73 gear. I slipped a nice cam in it and tweak the q-jet a little. It was the first car I ever drove to 140mph. I loved that car. I owned it in the 80s when it was nearly new. It also had a functional cowl induction hood on it and gill'd fenders.

RyanJB

I'd say its worth it, they're on the rarer side of Third Gens. It should probably hold value to anyone that knows what they're looking at.

scottmoyer

Based on recent sales and desirability, if the car has options and isn't a bare bones 1LE, it could be worth $15k give or take a couple either way. The cars condition will be the determining factor.

mechanic58

I don't think there were too many 'options' on the 3rd gen 1LEs. The only 'option' the car has is a radio...but its just an AM/FM radio - no cassette player. I didn't think you could get a 'fancy' one until later on in 4th gen production.

This car has plain cloth interior, crank windows and no air conditioning.

scottmoyer

Actually, the 1LE was available with most options. Because it was designed as a streetable "race" car, most were optioned very lightly. The only major requirement for the 1LE was the performance rear without AC. So, AC was probably the only option you couldn't get. It would be nice to see one with the custom interior, but I guess that defeats the original purpose of the 1LE.

mechanic58

I'm certainly not an 'expert' on these cars - hell, I have never even seen one in person before. This coming thursday will be my first time. I've only ever seen ONE other 3rd gen car without a/c - it was an '86 model IROC hardtop car. It was very plain and it had the L69 HO 305 with a T-5 and a 3.73 rearend. The car came from Chicago - so it was rusted out pretty bad if I remember correctly. The only reason I even remember that car was because it had no a/c. I remember thinking that was very odd.

t_towner

You might be disappointed in the actual price, I hate to say. I have an 89 1LE Camaro, US built with race history. Not perfect but definitely collectable and it has less than 9k original miles. I put it up on ebay earlier this year and it didn't even hit $15k. And 1989 was when they were still "real" 1LE's. It was sad really and I was really surprised.

FWIW, I know where there's a 91 5 speed 1LE car w/ under 20k miles, mint and could be purchased for under 10k (earlier this year).

Every dad with a 5 year old wants a car of his youth (that's why I started collecting them.) Problem is that mom won't ride in the car without AC so it creates a problem when dad wants to buy this his dream collector car. Right now it still seems that mainly the hoarders are buying and sticking them back since they are still relatively cheap?

mechanic58

Well - this car is also a 'real' 1LE, hell it doesn't even have an electric trunk release. I got it home this afternoon...here's a slideshow of pics:

http://s31.photobucket.com/user/mech...8%201LE?sort=2

This is (was) Gregg Blakely's car. I traded a 1971 Pontiac Ventura for it, here's some pics of that car...

http://s31.photobucket.com/user/mech...inished?sort=6

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

Super nice looking Camaro. Guess value will be a toss up for a long time to come. Personally I really like the Ventura too.

mechanic58

I built that Ventura from the ground up over the past 5-6 years. I was tired of looking at it and I just didn't like driving it. I'm kind of a big guy and I was just too cramped in it.

eseibel67

That Camaro is just awesome, congrats. Love your shop too.

RockinGTA89

great find! Looks like that camaro is pretty much intact. In one of the engine bay pic, looks like it still have the original hose clamps on it. This would be a perfect race car for sure if you were to consider it for racing, like the american iron series or the camaro/mustang challange series. Heck it would be something i want! Especially vehicles from the south, they are known to have pretty much pristine undercarrages, since the northern states where i live, have rotted out bodies and floor pans.

The ventura is a nice vehicle as well, i'm sure it's hard to find parts for those cars. My buddy has the sister car, a 74 nova. He always telling me it's hard to find replacement parts for it.

mechanic58

Thanks - that shop is my life's work. I built it about 4 years ago. I spend most of my time out there.


Yeah, the car is pristine. It has been reported to me that it has never been on a wet road in its entire life. I don't know that I would swear to that, but looking under it I think it might not be too far from the truth. It is the cleanest 23yo car I have ever seen.

Nova parts are a dime a dozen - but try finding front sheetmetal for a Ventura and you'll wish you didn't own one. I was lucky with that car - it was an original rust-free California car to start out with and it had no body damage. One of the "Ventura" fender emblems was broken and the other one was in bad shape. It took me over 3 years to locate replacements. They ended up coming out of a junkyard in Canada. I also had a very hard time locating a full set of those 14 x 7 Pontiac Rallies. 14 x 6 was the most common size, the 7" wheels were special and are very hard to find.

83Z28/L69

I think both you of came out good. Both are very nice cars! Congrats on your new toy.

89Formula3

Man that's a beautiful Camaro. I'm a firebird guy when it comes to thirdgens but man I would love to own a car like that.

mechanic58

Yeah...the fact that its parked in my garage now is almost surreal. It's like having a brand new 23yo car. I don't think the reality of it has sunk in just yet. lol

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

Beautiful car!!! Congrats!!!! I saw it posted for sale and I think it was priced right.

I just took delivery of a 91 1LE myself about 2 weeks ago

89Formula3

Lol I would feel the same.

mjdavis68

iTrader: (1)

Very nice , is it a 305 car? The reason i ask is the emblem on the rear, Also for the LE1 cars i would think they would use a the sportier seats rather than the RS style seats.

scottmoyer

The seats are the base seats unless ordered differently. The reason was again, weight. The upgraded seats came with the custom interior which added carpet to the center console and other options. These other options have additional weight. The 1LE is designed to be a road race car, so the fewer the options, the lighter the car and faster it performs.

91ls1t56

Awesome find/buy ! Things I find odd about that car are the black headlight buckets,steel spare,and pin stripe. Still an awesome car.

Psychoz28

Really great! Love these blue 1LE! The white one is nice too! Great find guys!

oldtimer

She's a beauty! Super nice car, and well worth the trade. It boggles the mind that these cars don't trade at double the $ they are selling for. The 3rd gen performance models are bargain performers across the board, and specials like the 1le are integral parts of the F body history. I wish I had the room to collect more of these cars, as the day will come when nice cars will trade at higher $, and plenty of folks will wish they had held on to these cars when they had a chance to. Congrats on the find and the purchase.

scottmoyer

It should have the black headlight buckets. It's a Z28.

mechanic58

Thanks for all the compliments fellas.

The spare is aluminum.

91ls1t56

Sorry I thought the aluminum spare was bare and looked different.

mechanic58

I thought the same thing - I had an '88 GTA that an aluminum spare in it, but it was a totally different looking wheel. This wheel looks like a typical steel wheel, but it made out of aluminum.

Steve86TA

iTrader: (57)

The 89 -92 cars with rear PBR disc brakes have that black aluminum spare. It was NOT 1LE specific. It was needed to fit over the bigger brakes. Nice car

mechanic58

This is what the spares the GTAs had looked like....



At least some of them did. I had 2 GTAs over the years, they both had this style of spare wheel. The wheel itself is 14". I still have one - I removed the spacesaver tire from it and just have a standard 14" tire mounted on it.

mechanic58

This was the last GTA that I had...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fire...8-wrecked.html

That car was wrecked when I got it. It was a shame too - it was a very nice car otherwise. I almost kept that car but I just didn't have time to fix it. It needed a body swap really, it was too badly damaged. It woulda been less work to just swap all the parts onto an unwrecked donor.

98_1LE

You did fine. I have driven your car and it is one of the nicer survivors.

mechanic58

I'm tickled with it - it's like a brand new car really.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Looks nice, even has a SLP cat-back exhaust on it.

mechanic58

Yep - its been on there since the car was nearly new apparently. It sounds good.

beths91camaro

iTrader: (35)

We have had 3 cars this summer without AC- I can't see a reason to buy one without it.
But, the car is gorgeous.

RockinGTA89

yup, they need luxury like a/c and an mp3 player, HAHA! I'm always looking for performance. I can take the heat for the most part since i'm always working in outdoor climate areas..

98_1LE

My 98 has a/c, but the roll up windows are a bummer for a short guy, and I miss the remote locks.

Mark_ZZ3

Awesome car! And Blue too! Soo many of the 1LE and R7U are white, a blue one is more "rare". Appears in good shape.

Good find.

Mark.

mechanic58

Yeah, since I got it I have been looking around and I haven't come across another Blue one either.

91ls1t56

The non A/C cars have fresh air vents, it's really not that bad with those.

mechanic58

All production passenger vehicles have fresh air vents via the dashboard or under dash ventilation system.

Just saying.

91ls1t56

Yeah, the non A/C cars are different. The older ones with the white gauges have two cable operated vents that the A/C equiped cars do not have. There are little plastic T handles under the steering wheel marked left and right vent. The vents drawfresh air from the cowl and are fairly large and under the dash in the foot wells. Under dash plastics are unique as well. I have not seen to many of the newer ones like yours with the yellow guages and no A/C. I do not know if you have one or two of them I think it might be vacuum operated.

mechanic58

I have no doubts that the hardware arrangements change from year to year, that wasn't my point. My point is that all cars have some means of channeling outside air into the cabin. Whether it be via cable or vacuum servo, it doesn't matter. Obviously the non-ac cars are going to different equipment than the ac cars have, but its not that much different. In fact, I'd almost be willing to bet their under dash hardware is the same - the main difference is the plenum that's under the hood where the evaporator would be on an ac car. The non-ac cars have an evap delete plenum that fits in the same place that a typical evap plenum would fit. The hole in the firewall is the same on these cars whether they be ac or non-ac. In older gm cars the firewalls were actually different and the under dash equipment was also different between the ac and non-ac cars. I don't think that's the case on the 3rd gen F-bodies.

David M

You have documentation on this car in the form of a build sheet. Big plus!! The only thing I question about this car is the TPI plate on the rear fascia. It should be to the right a little more. It's too far to the left on the bumper cover.

mechanic58

The car was repainted at the dealer on a recall. GM had brand new cars on lots with the paint coming off of them that year, most Camaros painted in the California assembly plant. They removed the original TPI emblem and re-stuck it after it was painted. It didn't stay on very well so the last owner purchased a new one and put it on.

91ls1t56

It is a totally different system under the dash as well but the hole in the firewall is the same. In the older cars with the white gauges the dashboard is even different. You have the same dash as a A/C equipped car. I wonder if you have the big vents in the foot wells.