dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Did the 83-84 H.O Camaros come with limited slip differentials? I know the 5spd cars came with 3.73 gears from factory but I was not sure if they were open rears or not.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

LSD's (or posi if you prefer that term) was an option on those models. the 3rd post in this thread gives you a list of RPO codes if that helps: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ear-ratio.html

okfoz

The HO indeed came with the 3.73... The ltd slip was an option as mentioned before.
G80 is the RPO for Ltd Slip
G92 - Performance axle (might not apply if standard)
J65 - Disc Brakes

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

I had read (on the internet so it must be true) that the 83's all came with the 3:73 gears, that they all were disc brakes & that the rear was non posi. Mine is drum brakes & haven't checked if it's posi or not.

Does anyone have a copy of the sales bulletin announcing the L69 release?

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

That would definitely be incorrect.

My '83 came with a non-posi 3.23 and the cfi. Were you referring to only the L69 cars?

4JK was an open 3.73 and 4JQ was a posi 3.73.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Ok thanks guys

gt4373

Four-Wheel Power Disc Brakes Required A V8 Engine And Limited Slip Differential.

okfoz

I believe PurelyPMD was referring to specifically the L69 (HO) in which this thread is intended)

I believe all L69s were to come with the 3.73 or 3.70 gear

I also believe that Posi (LTD slip) & Disc brakes were both options... not sure about the hierarchy, You might have had to get one to get the next to get the next...

John

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I was possibly getting a wrecked 84 5spd HO car for parts and was just wondering

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Thanks John, yes I was talking about the L69's.

Mine is non posi & non disc although it does have aluminum drums which are cool.

It's unfortunate there aren't any spids in these cars - I'm going to have to go fishing for the build sheet.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Same as mine.

It now has a PBR rear out of a 91 or so with an Eaton posi (NOT the Gov-Bomb) but still just the weenie stock L69 gears in it. The car could REALLY REALLY REALLY use some more gear.

84 is different. Most of the 84 auto cars came with 3.42s but some didn't get nutted that way.

okfoz

I did not know that...

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

The L69 came out in March of 1983-1986. All of the L69/T-5 cars came with 3.73 gears. As others have said posi was an option. I wish that all of the V8 f-bodies came with posi-traction standard but, I know this was a way GM could get more money for a posi car than a non-posi car.

In 1984 you could get the L69/700r4 combination and most of those cars came with 3.42 gears. You could get 3.73's with this powertrain as an option though but most didn't.

I'm not sure with the firebirds but I know with the Camaros starting in 1985 the L69 was only available in the IROC and only with the T-5. I'm not sure if posi was standard in those cars or not.

rainmaker70

My 1984 l69 HO, j65 disc brakes, no G80 posi thought that was mandatory to get j65 disc brakes.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Nope...

The hyd bell housing in my 83 came out of a wrecked 84, in about 86 or so... my one little bro got the rear out of it, turned out to be a 3.73 in spite of being an auto, w/ aluminum drums.

gt4373

No,Both G80-Limited Slip Differential And J65-Power Disc Front & Rear Brakes Were Options In 1984.

rainmaker70

J65 required g80? (Camaro white book)

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No.

Never seen any kind of "white book". (well, about the Camaro, anyway... I've seen a few books that were white, over the years)

All I know is WHAT IS. Speaking strictly as someone who WAS THERE AT THE TIME, buying THESE CARS. Granted, that's not a "perfect" way of knowing what ALL of what goes on; but visiting GM stores in 1983 etc. and LOOKING AT THE CARS sure beats the crap out of reading some "book" 30-some years after the FACT.

Might have been different in other years; might also well have been the kind of deal that they built up a stock on one shelf of rears with discs & posi, and another shelf of rears with drums and no posi. In which case, you got one or the other, not your "choice" of whichever. Sure, you could check whatever box you felt like at the stealership, but in the end, you GOT what they BUILT, not vice-versa.

Instead of reading "book" about Camaro, (not that I have a problem with reading or "book" or any of that, just, sometimes that's simply not the best way to be informed, because you're limited by whoever wrote "book") go visit a vehicle assembly plant sometime, and SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES how cars are REALLY built. I HIGHLY suggest the GM plant in Bowling Green KY, which offers guided tours through the entire build process. Get there the night before and show up at the plant bright and early. An eeeeeeeeezie day trip from anywhere in MO so don't make that excuse. Yes, you get a vacation, same as everybody else, so don't use that one either.

Not that "all" cars are built exactly "the same way"; but, if you're gonna watch cars being built, might as well be Vettes, eh?

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

After reading through all of the posts here, it seems that the consensus is that all years of L69s had posi rear axles as an option, but that's not true. 1983 L69 cars could not receive posi rear axles; it was not available to them. 3.73 yes, but posi no. Posi was available to 1984+ L69s, but not 1983.

As far as rear discs go, I'm trying to remember, but I'm inclined to believe rear discs were not available to 1983 L69s either. Mine had drums, and I spec'd and ordered mine with all of the performance features I was allowed to order. And I was not allowed to spec/order posi or discs; they were not available options. 1983 L69s only came with 3.73 open/drum rear axles.

*Edit 1 at 6:34 pm: I posted this just before leaving for work. Then on my way I got to thinking I might be mistaken about the above disc brake paragraph. So since nobody else has posted yet, I'm going to leave my above comment and type this clarification from my phone. I'm thinking that GM made an exception in 1983 for L69 cars to have disc brakes without the posi axle. I have my window sticker at home, and I'm thinking it does show that my car had rear discs. I will confirm this tonight when I get home. So no posi for sure, but possibly rear discs. End Edit.*

**Edit 2 at 12:51 am: Looks like I was right in my initial post, and I was mistaken in Edit 1 where I thought I might've been mistaken in my initial post. My invoice(not window sticker) shows no disc brakes(not an available option), no posi(not an available option), no performance ratio(not listed individually because it was standard with the L69). So disregard Edit 1. End Edit 2.**

I seem to remember threads about this here on TGO. Supposedly this was due to lack of availability of posi/disc axles during the last half of 1983 production, which makes more sense than the dealers' story. Dealers didn't know why the options were not available either, as evidenced by their claim was that the L69 was too powerful for the axles GM was using in 82 and 83 LOL.

The 3.70 posi/disc axle came in 1985 in the new 9-bolt axle. 3.70 was only available in 1985 and 1986, ending when the L69 ended.

okfoz

Ok... I might have had it backwards...

According to the Dealers order worksheet (5th edition- FEB 1994)
G80 (Axle Limited Slip Differential) - Req'd w/Frt. and Rear Disc Brakes J65 and w/Special Performance Pkgs WS6/WS7 - Inc. Stowaway Spare Tire.

L69 5.0 Liter V8 4 bbl H.O. Opt Trans Am w/Special performance packages WS6/WY6 ONLY NA w/4 spd man. Trans.

J65 (Power Brakes, Four Wheel Disc ) - Opt Trans Am & S/E only - Inc. Limited Slip Axle G80 - Inc w/Special Perfomance Pkg WS6/WY6 NA w/2.5 Liter Engine LQ9

WY5 (Special Handling Package LESS LIMITED SLIP AXLE) - Req'd w/5.0 Liter Engine LG4 w/5 spd man trans MM5 - Opt S/E w/2.8 Liter H.O. Engine LL1 - Opt w/5.0 Liter Engine LG4 w/Auto Trans MXO - Reqs P215 QYH or QYZ Tires (My note NA on L69)

WY6 (Special Performance Package LESS Limited Slip Axle) - Opt Trans Am or S/E w/5.0 Liter engines LG4 or L69 or 2.8 Liter H.O. Engine LL1 w/5 spd man trans MM5 Four Wheel Disc brakes J56 and P215 QYH or QYZ Tires

WS6 (Special Performance Package WITH Four Wheel Disc Brakes) - Opt Trans Am and S/E w/215 QYZ or QYH Tires Only

WS7 (Special Performance Package LESS Four Wheel Disc Brakes) - Opt Trans Am and S/E w/P215 QYZ or QYH Tires Only N.A. w/5.0 Liter H.O. Engine L69

L69 5.0 Liter V8 4 bbl H.O. Opt Trans Am w/Special performance packages WS6/WY6 ONLY NA w/4 spd man. Trans.

According to this particular order sheet, you had to get rear disc brakes with the L69

NOTE: The second Printing of the worksheet (7-83) which should have been prior to production reads the same AFAICT.

Brother Al

Although the above was intended to be true, GM had shortages of both rear disc brake components and gov-loc posi units between '82-84 because they exceeded production expectations/supplier capability... (best selling years of 3rd Gen production, w/ '84 being the best year). As a result, noted somewhat by sofakingdom, GM factory-deleted G80 & J65 (thus no WS6, replaced w/ WS7 > T/A's & Firebird S/Es), on the assembly line, because of thse component shortages... this can be seen on a number of L69 cars, especially in 1984... the only car that seemed to escape this was the 15th Anniversary, for obvious reasons. A good example of this can be seen amongst the '84 Recaro T/A's... WS6 wasnt Standard however, a number do have WS6/J65/G80

Special Performance Packages
(Required With Y84 Special Edition Recaro Trans Am Option)
Consists of:
- 215/65/R15 B/W Steel Belted Radial Tires
- Special Handling Package
. . . T/W G80 Limited Slip Differential
. . . . . . WS6 T/W J65 Front & Rear Power Disc Brakes.... $408.00
. . . . . .*WS7*W/O J65 Front & Rear Power Disc Brakes.... $229.00
. . . W/O G80 Limited Slip Differential
. . . . . . WY6 T/W J65 Front & Rear Power Disc Brakes.... $313.00
. . . . . . WY5 W/O J65 Front & Rear Power Disc Brakes.... $134.00

'84 was the ONLY year the L69 was available with the 700R4. These came Standardwith 3.42 gears, optional with 3.73's.

The few '85 L69 cars Ive seen had a 7.5 10 bolt, excepting one with the coveted Dana 44. The 9 bolt came sometime later in the production run...but when? Anyone know?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

ALL of these cars came with the 7.5" 10-bolt before the 9-bot was introduced, in 85.

One of the most unusual rears out of these cars is, a 85 Firebird L69 one; it will be a 9-bolt w 3.70 gears. Would have been the same in 86 if there were any L69 Firebirds that year, I don't know if there were.

AFAIK there were NEVER any of these cars that came new with the Dana 44. That was an over-the-counter replacement item. I could be wrong about that but I doubt it.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

For the Camaro's I've read that the L69 was put on severe restriction for 1986 and only 74 L69 Z28's were produced. I haven't been able to verify that though. If someone does have a 1986 L69 f-body it is a rare car.

All the Camaro L69 cars had the 10bolt rear. The Borg Warner 9bolt wasn't available in Camaros until 1987 (only in IROC's) when the L98 and LB9/5-speed drivetrain cars came out.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

That is true - but it gets better!

Of the 74 built 63 of them were R7U Players Cup Cars and went north - the other 11 were presumably sold to the public. I got an e-mail earlier this month from a guy with a black 86 5spd he was looking to sell that had the HO air cleaner on it in the pictures he sent me - it was pretty loaded up too including t-tops & rear louvers.....unfortunately it had the wrong letter in the VIN.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

That's too bad. A lot of LG4's and L03's have had their air cleaners swapped. To the casual consumer they would think that it's an L69 they were looking at. I would really like to see someone with a legit 1986 L69 car. I used to have a book with a picture of a dark red metallic/brown trim 1986 Z28 hard top that had the L69. Hopefully GM didn't scrap that car like they seem to do with a lot of the concept cars they make.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Good looking car, he said he liked the 88 up wheels better so that's what he had on it.

okfoz

1986 L69s
74 Camaro
26 Trans Am

So 100 total.

Most of these went to Canada and became Players series cars.
63 Camaros
22 Trans Am

Therefore in 1986, out of the 100, 85 were for the Players series.

I am not sure but I want to think even out of those 15, most went to Canada.

So if you do not have a Canadian Z49 car, there is a high high likelihood that it is not an L69... One way to tell is the door jamb should have the label in French and English. (or that might have started in 1987)

RamIt

Just pulled the cover off my 50k mile 84 HO.
It has the 3.73's with the Gov bomb.

Brother Al

Sofakingdom, I was responding to posts above. Dana 44 was never available on the option sheet, but was available only as an GM parts OTC purchase and, in some cases, a service replacement part... In that particular '85 L69, the original owner said he had the dealer replace the 10 bolt after a ring gear failure. I last saw this Camaro at the Worcester Summer Nationals about 8-9 years ago with a few others on this site.

It was said above about the 9 bolt being in '85, Ive never seen one on a stock example, hence my question. Ive long heard conflicting info as to when the 9 bolt entered production lines... late '85 production, '86 production, & '87 production...

And the exception to the "Rear Disc Brake requiring a V8" is the '82-'86 "Firebird S/E", which could be ordered with WS6/J65/G80, with or without a V8 (LG4-only).

okfoz

IIRC (without doing digging) the 9 bolt was introduced on the Trans Am in 1985, and the IROC in 1987. The reason why the T/A got it first (from what I understand) was the fact that the T/A was heavier than the IROC, and the 9 bolt was actually more efficient (not really sure how that worked, but that was the story I got)

It had to do with Fuel Economy some how...

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Amazing how many things are touched by that; as well as, emissions certification and testing.

I cannot stress adequately how different "order" and "what you get" can be. Sure, you might have this sheet that says, so-and-so option is available, such-and-such also is, with a check box next to each, and seemingly independent of each other; sure, you can check one but not the other; but if the factory has a pile of parts with both options already installed (say, rears with posi and disc brakes) and another pile of parts with neither installed (rears w open & drums) then if you want a car shipped to you, you're going to get one or the other, NOT what you "order" by checking a bunch of boxes. Not all cases of course, but more frequentl than you might think. Same thing applies to all automakers. (I first ran across it with Xler in the mid-60s)

All of this about "sales literature" and all that is fine and dandy but doesn't accurately characterize how cars are REALLY built. It's fantasy land, uniquely suited to Internet message boards but not necessarily related to physical cars on physical dealer lots.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

The posi- trac rear I got has drum brakes. Came off an 84 Z28 H.O. 5spd. Ive heard the posi-units were supposed to have disk brakes. I didn't get to see the RPO codes off the donor car but I know for a fact it was factory and low mileage.

okfoz

If your car did not meet the stupid EPA they tack on a $1500 gas guzzler tax, which is ironic, because you are going to be paying more for fuel, so it is kind of like double taxation... I digress..

With that said Back in the 80's $1500 tacked onto the price of a car was huge chunk, essentially adding 10% or more to your typical F-body. Today they try to make it happen, but like everything, when you are paying $75,000 or so for a new Z28 who cares if you pay an extra $1500 to get it to go faster and suck more gas...

It goes to show that Government Intelligence is an oxymoron.