kymmee

I have read multiple threads about the early third gens Van Nuys paint quality (or lack of). Is this a condition of that type of paint? Was water based enamel used? Reason is, I have my car for sale and it has several of these "spider cracks" on the hood. I had an older guy come look at the car and he insisted that they did not use the water based paint in 1982. I told him about the strict EPA regulations, etc. He got angry and told me he has been in the car business for 40 yrs and I was basically full of sh--. He left and was no longer interested in the car. I am pretty confident I know my car better than him, but just wanted to check with you experts.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Has nothing to do with the type of paint. That's rust under the paint. It could have come up from the back side, been old rust that was painted over and allowed to return, or it could have been a pin hole or chip in the paint that allowed moisture to effect the steel. Regardless, doesn't matter what it was painted with, it's rust.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Kim - I am pretty sure you can tell by the trim tag under the hood if it was painted with water based paint. It will have an E for enamel or a W for water based next to the paint code.
But I am pretty sure you are right and the Van Nuys third gens were always painted with water based paint.
Here is a link to decode the tag:
http://www.82firebird.com/DecodeCowlTag.aspx

kymmee

Thanks Vincent, I will check that.

Thank you for your info, the car is all original with only 23,xxx miles. Has NOT been repainted. I know what it is, I guess my question was, is it related to poor quality paint, not neglect. This car has not been neglected.

eseibel67

It only takes a very small chip in the paint for it to end up like that.


Shame on the old guy for using inappropriate language before a lady. It's quite obvious that you aren't hiding anything here.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

IIRC, the issue with the Van Nuys paint was due to the clear coat peeling.

Here's an example of a thread with pics half way down (post 13).
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...t-peeling.html

mk1431

looks like a cancer spot(rust)...growing up on east coast i seen many of those they seem to come out of nowhere.nothing to do with the paint. back then rust inhibitors were primative.The environment has alot to do with it also

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If you "know what it is" then why did you refer to your obvious rust damage as "spider cracks"? That isn't cracked paint, it's rust under the paint. You clearly missed my point, so let's try this again... It has nothing to do with the paint. Van Nuys cars weren't painted so poorly that they just spontaneously develop random rust spots. So, no it has nothing to do with the paint.

If your initial post and reply is any indication, it sounds like you tried to excuse a rust problem by telling a tall tale about poor OEM paint. The fact is that you don't know exactly what caused the rust, and instead of simply acknowledging the problem, you repelled a potential buyer by telling a story that smelled like BS. He probably pegged you as a dishonest seller for trying to pass off a rust issue as a "factory feature".

FYI, Those rust spots need to be addressed ASAP, left alone the rust is just going to spread and cause more damage. The longer you let it go, the more damage you'll have to repair.

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

Nice purple color, but that is clearly corrosion under the paint.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

interesting that a car would spontaneously rust from under the paint though. There had to be a paint failure initially that caused the issue.

kymmee

Also interesting to note that these "rust' marks were on the car when I purchased it. I have owned the car for 6 years and they are exactly the same shape, size and texture. Nothing has changed.

Also for clarification, I am not dishonest, never denied it was or wasnt rust, so before anyone brow beats me, I just was asking for an explanation, not a scolding, thank you.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I don't think anyone was saying that you were dishonest, but instead suggested that you may have appeared that way as a seller to a potential buyer. A good buyer is overly suspicious and ready to walk away. My take on it is that they were trying to help you not have a repeat of the same situation.

If you are confident that it is not rust then try rubbing your thumbnail backwards across one of the (least noticeable) marks in question. If it is rust then it will crumble and the rust will appear. Then you will need to remove that to bare metal and repaint the area. IMO, that is what the buyer is afraid of having to deal with.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

What I find interesting is, she said the spot has been that way for 6 years. If its rust...... I think we all know what would be happening/happened. But, the spot hasn't changed. IMO, Id bring it to a good body shop and ask around. maybe show pics and see if it cant be nailed down. It could be a reaction of paint chemicals, maybe a poor prep b4 paint. All i know is, after living in MN where I call rust, Minnesota Lock tight, That's not rust if it hasn't changed size,shape in over 6 years.. Unless it has been treated before she bought it. Again, call around to some body shops. tell em the story and see if anyone knows.. Good luck!

-Dan

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Rust doesn't always visibly change on the surface, that's one of the reasons it's such a big deal to have such small spots. The visible corrosion could be hiding a pin hole all the way through the panel, and you won't know until all of the loose corrosion and paint is removed. However, removing the rust and paint to see how deep the problem goes is going to make the area look a LOT worse. That said, it'd be much easier to sell if the rust is fixed and the paint is touched up.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Kim
I was saying that bad paint is what led to the issue.
Your not selling a car for 40 grand. If a buyer thinks its going to be perfect then let him walk. Not worth your time IMO

MJS422

The potential buyer must not have been serious. With his so called experience in the automotive world he should know that a car that age, especially an early eighties GM would have some paint issues. They all did. I had an 84 Cutlass with the same issues, not uncommon for that era. Not a deal breaker for the price and over all condition of the car. Every classic is usually not with out issues, and reading the posts on this site many have often shown me that some are too quick to criticize. You have a nice stable of third gems and should be proud. Don't let some members rattle your cage. You'll get your buyer soon.

okfoz

AFAIK, (could be wrong) but Van Nuys used Water based paints (for all 3rd gens), they were one of the first in the country, if not the world to do so. IT had to do with the California environmental crazies out there. The Clear coat started in either mid 1985, or at the 1986 model year change, and it was garbage. My friend has a 1986 Trans Am from Van Nuys and if you put painters masking tape on it, you could peal the clear coat right off of the car... We stripped all of the clear coat off of it we could with tape, it was faster than sanding.

That appears to be bubbling of some sort, which like mentioned before, is 95% chance it is rust, or corrosion (since we do not typically have aluminum body panels, it is rust, corrosion happens on Aluminum, Zink, or Magnesium, etc.)

If I had a choice between 2 identical cars, I would take a Norwood car any day over a Van Nuys car for this very reason... Unfortunately GM canned Norwood to take it's Government purchased equipment and move it to Mexico...

I will mention that by the end of production in 1992 the paint appears to have improved, the blues would peal because of lack of primer, but beyond that it had improved.

This reminds me, I need to paint my convertible with crappy Van Nuys Paint...

John

kymmee

All right guys, I did some checking in this issue. I flecked a very small piece (about 1/8 to 1/4 inch diameter) of the cracked paint off. It is bare metal under there and grey color. No rusty brown or orange at all. Also I looked at some of the cutouts on the underside of the hood where the spots are on the top and saw no corrosion on the underside of the spot.

My cowl tag has a W so it is water based paint. So in conclusion, there is some type of paint damage, but not rust.

In retro spect, this potential buyer, after thinking about how the whole incident went, was just a predatory buyer. He asked me only 2 questions, how long I owned it and was it titled in my name or my husbands. He spent a total of less than 3 minutes here, blew in and blew out, as soon as he saw the spots, he didnt want the car. He was basically looking for a pristine car for a cheap price (due to a possible dumb female owner IMO) to flip for a profit. Not the type of person I would want to sell the car to anyway. He was not a third gen enthusiast. End of story. lol

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Well, forget him. As stated above, his loss and he can keep walking. So, does that make the car more special? That its not rust? That its vans crappy original paint?

kymmee

No, not special in general. Special in the fact that its a base V-6 car that has survived 33 yrs with no mods, no abuse. Its just a car and I will probably end up keeping it since there has been little interest. I dont have a problem keeping it.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

You have 4 very unique Birds Kim. Keep em if you can!

sorry, 5 The R/A

92RS(real slow)

Do you have anymore info about the peeling of blue cars due to primer issues? I am very curious where this info came from, because I had many debates with my painter when I got my car repainted. wether or not my car was wearing original paint to which I still believe it was. He did not.

okfoz

I do not have anything "Official" What I know is from a local body shop that I showed him a 1991 Maui Blue Formula with a small spot of pealing paint on the side. What he told me was the problem was not with the paint, but rather the fact it did not get "primer." Back in the day car companies were converting from a Primer to a Sealer, and the sealer was so expensive that they decided to forgo the Primer step. This was not a problem on all paints, Red, Yellow, Black, all use a lot more pigment than Silver, blue, and white. What happens is the suns UV rays go through the paint and deteriorate the sealer, which would make it powdery. The paint does not stick well to powder, so it starts to flake off...

There is another condition where the clear coat starts to peal, I do not know what causes that, I suspect something similar. That usually it comes off in strips, similar to the pattern the painter used to paint the car, where the clear is heavy it does not peal, where it is thin, the clear peals off...

Many of these cars were painted under warranty, (like my Maui blue car)...

Not sure if that helps.

92RS(real slow)

Interesting. Yeah what happened with my car was over the years paint basically just started coming off mostly around the fender lips and quarters. When I went to go get it painted they called me up and told me I had to come check it out. When I got there they slapped a piece of painters tape on it and paint came off all the way down to primer just from some simple tape. They told me they believed the primer had failed more than likely because of a using the wrong primer when repainted. We both were left scrathing our heads though because basically the car showed no other signs of being repainted in its lifetime. My car is an 89 with bright blue metallic.

okfoz

It may be the original paint... You are correct that they did not use the original primer...

69-er

Concerning the Van Nuys paint quality; I bought my 83 new and it looked great overall. I do remember a pink blob/dot under one of the mirrors. That eventually wore away. But that's the only issue I remember. Later I noticed a very small crazing/cracking pattern just on the hatch. It never got worse, in fact it actually looks better than the rest of the car at this time. It still has the original paint. It never peeled, cracked, or lifted. It's just been wearing away. It's down to the gray primer, (or sealer?) and some places down to metal and the SMC on the hood.

Luckily, I'm in New Mexico so there is just a little surface rust. The car looks like hell, but I'm keeping it! It's about 3 cars down the line waiting for a proper restoration.